Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by dyavu » 25 Sep 2008

ex-l wrote:As an aside, Lekhraj Kirpalani's daughter Puttu is not listed as a member of the Om Mandli above. She must have been married off before 1937, does anyone know when or to whom? I believe it was Palu that was married off to the member of the Mangharam family and then taken back by Lekhraj Kirpalani being the last straw to cause all the trouble.
Puttu (Navanidhi --second daugheter of DLJ) was married with Bhodaraj a school master before 1936. It was created a big issue in DLJ family because DLJ was a rich man and he given Puttu (Navanidhi) to a ordinary school master.

Dadi Nirmala Shanta explained in her book that it was a simple marriage happened in a temple. ( For more details please refer the book "Three in One" by Nirmala Shanta Page#20).
Does anyone know with evidence when did the Om Mandali move to Karachi from Hyderabad,Sind ??
According to "Is This Justice" by Om Radhe they moved round about October 1938 (Om Mandali shifted to Karachi from Sind Hyderabad).

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Sep 2008

I was just looking at the list of Om Mandli Members again under the light of this discussion.

Was number two; "Palu Motiram Dhanrajmal", Palu, Lekhraj Kirpalani's daughter? Would that have been her married name?

I also noticed Om Radhe is down as being 22 in 1938 which contradicts the BKWSU claim she was a teenager when she joined ... unless she joined before the 1936 when they say it started.

"Is this Justice?" says Lekhraj Kirpalani retired and started satsangs in 1932 ... did she attend from the very beginning? What does any know about the earlier years, 1932 to 1936/7?

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by suryavanshi » 26 Sep 2008

According to "Is This Justice?" by Om Radhe they moved round about October 1938 (Om Mandali shifted to Karachi from Sind Hyderabad).
Thanks Dyavu.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by shivsena » 17 Oct 2010

fluffy bunny wrote:I was just looking at the list of Om Mandli Members again under the light of this discussion.
i could not see the name of shewakram and family in any of the names mentioned in list of om mandli members.
Does this not raise a doubt in the minds of PBKs about the existence of a person named sevakram(Ram's soul) being present in the Yagya in the initial years.

Does advance knowledge provide any concrete proof about the existence of a person shevakram(Ram's soul) in the beginning of the Yagya, who gave clarifications to DL(Krishna) about his visions.....if any pbk has any concrete proof, then please share it on the forum.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by ANU » 29 Dec 2010

Does Advanced Knowledge provide any concrete proof about the existence of a person shevakram(Ram's soul) in the beginning of the Yagya, who gave clarifications to DL(Krishna) about his visions.....if any PBK has any concrete proof, then please share it on the forum.
The proof which was presented to me by Baba was a book printed by BK and dedicated to children. The book contains the story of the Yagya and Sevakram was presented in it as Dada's partner at the beginning. They both were depicted as partners doing business and Sevakram was worrying that Dada wanted to leave him and all business.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by ANU » 29 Dec 2010

I also noticed Om Radhe is down as being 22 in 1938 which contradicts the BKWSU claim she was a teenager when she joined ... unless she joined before the 1936 when they say it started.
Om Radhe was a teeneger when she came to Dada acc to BK and PBK. In PBKs she was introduced as 14 years old girl whe she surrendered to Baba and he made her the chief mother. On the other hand BKs produced her biography acc to which she was adult at that time. Some authors of that time depicted her as a mature girl around 20-22 in 1938. She should be rather mature, at least 18 - she represented the Yagya in public institutions and signed official documents.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by shivsena » 30 Dec 2010

ANU wrote:
The proof which was presented to me by Baba was a book printed by BK and dedicated to children. The book contains the story of the Yagya and Sevakram was presented in it as Dada's partner at the beginning. They both were depicted as partners doing business and Sevakram was worrying that Dada wanted to leave him and all business.
Dear anu.

You are right about the comic book ("bacchon ke Baba") printed by BKs and this is the only proof that some sevakram was Baba's partner...but can it be taken as absolute proof as AK claims, when the official list of om mandli members does not contain the name of shewakram.

Also if shewakram is Ram's soul and leaves the body in 1942 to take birth as VD (as claimed by PBKs), then at least the date of death(of shewakram) and the date of birth(of VD) should be closely connected.....then only some authenticity of AK can be considered.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by ANU » 30 Dec 2010

You are right about the comic book ("bacchon ke Baba") printed by BKs and this is the only proof that some sevakram was Baba's partner...but can it be taken as absolute proof as AK claims, when the official list of om mandli members does not contain the name of shewakram. Also if shewakram is Ram's soul and leaves the body in 1942 to take birth as VD (as claimed by PBKs), then at least the date of death(of shewakram) and the date of birth(of VD) should be closely connected.....then only some authenticity of AK can be considered.
Some foreign students from inforpoint@gmail.com did some research on this topic. They counted when approximately Sevakram should die, so that the same soul could be born as Virendra Dev Dixit. I discussed with them few issues connected with the topic of Sevakram. They presented me a set of facts and temporary conclusions along with Baba's answers to questions about some contradictions. They also mentioned about some research about Sevakram done by students in Bharat whose results did not agree with the story of the Yagya. Baba has those results.

For me that book for children can be used as a proof pro or against, depending in which context it is used. The author of that book only mentioned that Sevakram was Dada's partner. We do not know anything else about him on the basis of that book.

What I find worrying is the detailed story of Sevakram's marriage with Dada's sister, being the Father of Nirmalshanta, his diet, his polygamic marriage with Lakshmi and Jagadamba and other details which I learnt in many classes and which are not based on any positive proof. The authenticity of this story has not been confirmed till today; on the contrary, proofs that some of these facts did not happen were found.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by shivsena » 30 Dec 2010

ANU wrote: They also mentioned about some research about Sevakram done by students in Bharat whose results did not agree with the story of the Yagya. Baba has those results.What I find worrying is the detailed story of Sevakram's marriage with Dada's Sister, being the Father of Nirmalshanta, his diet, his polygamic marriage with Lakshmi and Jagadamba and other details which I learnt in many classes and which are not based on any positive proof. The authenticity of this story has not been confirmed till today; on the contrary, proofs that some of these facts did not happen were found.
Baba dixit(ishwariya-roop of Maya) has lead all PBKs on a wild goose chase about the Yagya history and i was also fooled by his teachings for 8-10 years....i could come out of it only when i started reading the Murlis after 10 years and my intellect was touched by buddhi ki devi Saraswati, who i feel is guiding me at every stage and giving me the courage to challenge the mayavi AK teaching.
("Ek kadam bacchon ka...100 gunaa madad Bap ki".)
Can any bk-pbk please give his views about what is this first step(ek kadam).
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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by ANU » 30 Dec 2010

My feelings about the search of the Yagya history to be done by students urged by Baba remain ambivalent. I admit that I cannot understand his directions in this. I have already posted somewhere in the forum that I find it unusual that a teacher announces his theory and sends his students to find proofs of it. I have never heard about such a case apart from AK.

Now, let's look from the other perspective: Baba says that students receive everything ready (bana banaya ras); that he answers all the questions and there is no need for students to think and do any research; he also discourages from reading Sakar Murli. On the other hand he urges to find proofs for the story of the Yagya. At the same time he teaches that the true Bharatvasi do not do any efforts to find out the story of the Yagya. It is the task of videshis. Interesting points on this are contained in one discussion from Nepal, first half of 2011. My impression was that in this discussion Baba discouraged those students from doing research in a very smart way. A student asked about revealing the story of the Yagya. Baba asked him: "Do you want to become Bharatvasi or Videshi?" The student said: "Of course, Bharatvasi". Baba said: "Then what are you worrying about?"

Someone published in the Internet selected contradictions in AK, particularly regarding the history of the Yagya. Few months ago I found the whole site on this. Someone, I do not remember the name, described the entire issue of inconsistencies in the story Sevakram taught in AK. It was published in a form of an article signed by an author in a popular news. Unfortunately I lost the URL of the site and cannot find that article again. It was an Indian popular news site.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by Sach_Khand » 01 Jan 2011

ANU wrote: The proof which was presented to me by Baba was a book printed by BK and dedicated to children. The book contains the story of the Yagya and Sevakram was presented in it as Dada's partner at the beginning. They both were depicted as partners doing business and Sevakram was worrying that Dada wanted to leave him and all business.
Possibility is that some old BKs and Virendra Dev Dixit together are doing all this dirty business of misguiding BKs and supporting one another so as to control the Yagya.
I now personally think that Virendra Dev Dixit is the part of Ravan. And he has his agents in BKs. Together they are fooling real BK students.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by arjun » 02 Jan 2011

sachkhand wrote: Possibility is that some old BKs and Veerendra Dev Dixit together are doing all this dirty business of misguiding BKs and supporting one another so as to control the Yagya.
I now personally think that Veerendra Dev Dixit is the part of Ravan. And he has his agents in BKs. Together they are fooling real BK students.
What an idea!!!! He should first go and ask the BKs whether they published the comic 'bachcon ke Baba' in consultation with Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

The comic was probably published before the revelation of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit in 1976-77 when he was too poor (monetarily) and too new in the BK family to have any say in the affairs of even a BK center, leave alone the BK Headquarters.

I hope Anu takes note of the assumptions made by Sachkhand on his research work.

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by Sach_Khand » 06 Jan 2011

arjun wrote: What an idea!!!! He should first go and ask the BKs whether they published the comic 'bachcon ke Baba' in consultation with Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit.

The comic was probably published before the revelation of Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit in 1976-77 when he was too poor (monetarily) and too new in the BK family to have any say in the affairs of even a BK center, leave alone the BK Headquarters.

I hope Anu takes note of the assumptions made by Sachkhand on his research work.
Who is ANU?
Why should ANU take note of my assumptions? Is ANU my follower? Or is ANU my guide in my research !?
Anyway, what do you think ANU?


Whether comic was published before or after 1976-77. I personally think that Virendra Dev Dixit has assosciation with some old BKs with whom he is running his business of misguiding actual students of ShivBaba. This is my idea. How is my idea sirjii !!?

:neutral:
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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by ANU » 06 Jan 2011

Who is ANU?
Why should ANU take note of my assumptions? Is ANU my follower? Or is ANU my guide in my research !?
Anyway, what do you think ANU?

Whether comic was published before or after 1976-77. I personally think that Veerendra Dev Dixit has assosciation with some old BKs with whom he is running his business of misguiding actual students of ShivBaba. This is my idea. How is my idea sirjii !!?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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I think that Arjuns repeatedly makes some kind of assumptions, instead of asking simple questions and receive answers. His assumptions turn out to be harmful and misleading. By behaving like this Arjun appears to me as a person who is ready to justify contradictions and ambiguities in AK and explain things in the light which would be favorable to AK, but not necessary impartial and based on logic. I find this behavior harmful, becasue it adds to darkness which BK and AK has created. I don't say that AK is darkness, but that it has co-created darkness through its various contradictory, ambiguous and not based on facts explanations. The ordinary form that God assumes which Arjun points at trying to explain the fact that Baba cannot explain things like a historian or a mathematician etc etc should not be used as an argument justifying that AK is the truth anyway. Arjuna has used it as a kind of justification. I disagree with this (if it turns out to be necessary I will clarify the reason why in a seperate post).

I do not follow Sach Khand and (I will dissapoint Arjun's hopes) I haven't taken notes of the assumptions made by Sachkhand on his research work. (Arjuna, could you explain what you mean by writing that sentence? I am not sure what you really want to tell me.)

I also do not aspire to be a guide of Sach Khand or to be anyone's guide or follower. I work to achieve my personal disillusionment (getting rid of all illusions).

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Re: Sevak Ram, Piu Vanis and the history of Om Mandli

Post by ANU » 06 Jan 2011

I personally think that Veerendra Dev Dixit has assosciation with some old BKs with whom he is running his business of misguiding actual students of ShivBaba.
On what do you base this conclusion? What motives could /should drive him to act like this? He runs a huge gathering, takes care of it; he has app 600 or more surrendered girls who he fosters and sustains with all neccessary things. He spends his life on traveling non-stop to meet his followers and practically doesn't take rest - what a sacrifice! And all this should be only to fool people?

However, someone in BKs must be his friends who regularly send him Avyakt Vanis narrated in Mt Abu. Either it happens directly or indirectly those who do it violate internal rules of PBKIVV according to which Vanis belong to them.

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