Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

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Who do you think will be your primary carer, when you become old or terminal ill?

My physical family
4
17%
The BKWSU
3
13%
Other BKs
1
4%
The State or Government of your country
2
9%
It wont happen because Destruction will happen and Baba is protecting me
1
4%
Its OK, I have a private pension plan
3
13%
I will die alone
9
39%
 
Total votes: 23

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fluffy bunny
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Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Apr 2008

A simple, practical question.

Given that all the original Brahma-kumaris are dying off in ill health, the numerous failures in the predictions of End of the World and that an increasing number of even the original Western BKs are now entering into retirement age; who do you think will look after you, that is be your primary carers, when you become old or terminal ill?

If anyone has any information about how the old or terminally ill BKs are treated in India, or in your country, please report it here.

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by bansy » 29 Apr 2008

Interesting poll. Maybe a seperate discusion thread.

Issues of aging population around the world also apply to the BK.

This issue of old age BK care is at the forefront of BK admin. I have heard that the Dadis/SS/NCO/RCOs discuss this at their meetings, after all the BKs in the front rows are not getting any younger. As there is already a hospital in Madhuban, would there also would be an old age BK home ? I do not know what has been discussed in those meetings, I wonder how many hard-effort making BKs doing their bit of seva know what is being discussed at the BK round table ?

An overused slogan : "It is only for those who need to know. And you do not need to know".

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by bkti-pit » 30 Apr 2008

I never thought much about this.
  • - I am not expecting anything from the BKWSU. If they do offer something when I get to that point, I will consider.
    - I would not want to be a burden on my kids but one of them may be willing to help when the need comes.
    - I also have good friends, BKs and non BKs who would welcome me anytime now but I don't know what it would be when if get seriously ill. Since most of them are around my age, it is likely they would themselves be in need at that time.
    - I come from a country with a decent public care program but the way things are going, who knows if the government will still be able to support it when my turn comes.
    - I am not making plans around Destruction ...
    - I have no private pension plan. I will not get much retirement money since I am from the low income working class and have been off the job market for many years doing full time service with the BKs. I don't worry much. I try taking good care of my health and plan to stay active as much as I can. I can be frugal and live very simply. Overall life has been good for me I trust it will remain so.
    - If I could choose I would rather die with dear ones around me ...
I know that it is an area of concern for BKs and that it is being discussed in the BK circles but who knows where it is heading up to, who will be eligible to be supported by the BKWSU, etc? Will we have BKs to take care of their old ones or will it be hired body conscious Shudras? ...

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by bluesky » 30 Apr 2008

Ultimately, you have to take care of yourself. If you have pension, insurance and savings, you could hire a maid to look after you. Sometimes physical family is not too bad, especially if you have good relationships with your siblings or relatives, although I prefer friends. I doubt BKs will look after you, unless you have some savings or wealth written as "will" to them and they will keep hunting for your wealth.

bluesky

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by fluffy bunny » 30 Apr 2008

And then there is the question of "who gets supported"? Then take Lekhraj Kirpalani daughter ... why is she being supported?

Did she give that much, do such outstanding service, was so brilliant ... or were her 'family connections' enough to ensure her welfare in a nation where those that do not work die on the street.

What are the parameters for the leadership deciding whether you get a cut of the pie or not? Unspoken and unwritten as usual.

Has anyone heard of practical examples of day care performed by BKs on a long term basis? Would not that bring karma or be a burden on the intellect of the carer?

The big issue to my mind is that the BKWSU is a typical pyramid operation. It will always be fine for the elite who have had their PR ventures well funded and advertised, and those wealthy BKs they keep the company of. The wealthy BKs are used to reinforced the elite BKs and their operation in a typical relationship between elite classes, money and clergy. (I am thinking specifically about one center-in-charge that keeps a sizable pension and income but at the same time has encouraged fairly penniless brothers to give and give up everything even donating to her mortgage. What are the working class of the BKWSU doing to safeguard themselves?

But what about the little old nobody in the back of beyond? Even then, little old ladies tend to take care of each other better and are better rewarded by their system and those center-in-charge that gave over their houses but took donations to pay for them will, we presume be rewarded by the system. So what about the little old brother who have to live outside of centers ... those the Brahma-Kumaris that have been encouraged to cash in their pensions ... those who have given over properties ... the families who inheritance has been willed over to the BKWSU ...

In the UK, BKs of age are falling back on the State system and going into care house. In fact, the State is even support BKs and so-called centers indirectly. I was also thinking of one leading BK we all know who went back to her lokiks ... after decades years of giving all to the BKWSU ... to take support from them. What did the family get out of all that "seva"? Why should the family support the BKWSU?

In time, the BKWSU will suffer the same situation many developed nations are suffering, e.g. not enough workers paying taxes, or capital, to support those of age that need support. But then Destruction will come to sort everything out for them I suppose ... like it did before.

* I just wondered if the vote for "other BKs" meant other BKs that were 'also' physical family? If so, I think that would be cheating ... :|. Frankly, I don't believe it and don't believe it could be true unless we have a Senior Sister on the forum. What is the Shrimat on such things? Arjun ... the Murli please!

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 May 2008

Now, here is the question all BKs should be asking the BKWSU ... Senile delinquents? "we better do something".
John Lennon and The Beatles wrote:When I get older losing my hair
Many years from now
Will you still be sending me a valentine
Birthday greetings, bottle of wine?
If I'd been out till quarter to three
Would you lock the door?
Will you still need me, will you still feed me
When I am sixty-four?


You'll be older too
And if you say the word
I could stay with you

I could be handy, mending a fuse
When your lights have gone
You can knit a sweater by the fireside


Sunday mornings go for a ride
Doing the garden, digging the weeds
Who could ask for more?
Will you still need me, will you still feed me
When I am sixty-four?

Every summer we can rent a cottage in the Isle of Wight
If it's not too dear
We shall scrimp and save
Grandchildren on your knee
Vera, Chuck & Dave

Send me a postcard, drop me a line
Stating point of view
Indicate precisely what you mean to say
Yours sincerely, wasting away
Give me your answer, fill in a form
Mine for evermore
Will you still need me, will you still feed me
When I am sixty-four?
Ho!
"Just passing through the sea of time ..."

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fluffy bunny
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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 May 2008

Seriously though, what I am underlining here is the unequal and unwritten nature of things BK and how it is necessary for individuals to "spread their life investments". If a BK "gives their bones" to the Yugya in service, neglecting their impure physical family, should that physical family be expected to pick up the tab when the end of illness comes?

And if a center-in-charge has a nice fat government related pension, is it right she encourages young BKs to surrender labor and money ... everything ... to Baba.

And is Yoga, or "giving your bones in service", enough to cover yourself inside the BKWSU, or do you need also to invest in becoming a bit of a personality cult in order to receive "BK state welfare"? Are there enough beds, retreats or health care for all BKs?

Of course, there cant be ... so how are the decisions over who gets it made? ... Politics? ... Fame? ... External Talents? ... Hours of service? Quality of service? ... Some personal preference of the SS ... or not?

Who gets books of blessing to make them better and who does not and what are the unspoken values that underpin such decisions? Is it more important to be a "favored courtier" than 'Shrimat righteous' or good Buddhi? What happens to the old matas in India or the incognito servers? Who recognises the yogi souls in the rush for VIP service?

I hope this poll ... along with the discussion over the failed predictions of Destruction and how they have been used on individual's minds ... is a bit of a wake up call and protects newcomers to the BKWSU to the chimeric realities of life within the BKWSU. Many BKs finally collapse and leave with nothing. Perhaps even most do. Not just nothing to show for al they gave, but exhausted, disheartened and with no friends, or a host of broken relationships to repair. No alternative life, no support mechanism, no pension or healthcare insurance ... support entirely cut by the BK community. What advice and exit strategies are there for them ... for those that also gave so much, opening up entire nations for the sweet business angels in white etc?

Its a numbers game, a pyramid sale. There will only ever be enough for those at the top of the pyramid. If you commit to the BKWSU, commit to climbing the internal unspoken pyramid. Learn the game, get yourself a name, exploit your talents, become loveable, don't rock the boat and don't question etc ... if you can conscience it. "Its not Brahmin".

Don't trust in the BK god or Karma, remember the old Arab saying, "Trust in God, but tie your camel down."

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by mr green » 02 Oct 2008

Its all down to privilage. Jayanti's dad was allowed to stay in the flat at GCH, and was fed everyday etc. The sisters there saw it as service, even though he wasn't really a bk ... they even called him Dada.

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by fluffy bunny » 02 Oct 2008

mr green wrote:The Sisters there saw it as service, even though he wasn't really a BK ... they even called him Dada.
Ha! is not that so Sindhi ... and so nepotistic? Frankly, never mind unethical ... I would not be surprised if it is was unlawful for a charity to indulge its administrator's family! No one in London claimed or accepted he was a BK ... nor was he was "poor" and needed his "poverty alleviated" as the charity was set up to do ... so why did he benefit from such service?

Interesting typical to find "family" interests put before public good as a proper charity is supposed to. He probably saw it as a natural return for his FINANCIAL INVESTMENT into the BKWSU ... and in return Jayanti was relieved of her filial duties as a daughter to look after her "Shudra" Father so that she can be left free to do much more important BKWSU business ... does it not look as if the unpaid BK serfs acted as free residential care assistants for them?

Did her Father not give the BKWSU the house that became the Richmond center/sisters retreat as being equal to Jayanti Kirpalani's dowry? Is that Richmond center/sisters retreat still on the go, or was it sold off at a nice profit?

He and the mother must must be dead now. Was the mother also looked after by the Yugya?

There was a brother so was the family inheritance split 50% - 50%, or did it go 100% to the BKs? Did she receive it personally or did it all go into the BKWSU? ... Now that would be interesting to look into. Perhaps there is a deeply personal element to all this Kripalani Klan followers are not being told about which could explain not just the status within the organisation but also the attachment to the business ... ahem ... university as it is?

I have no answers, nor any final deductions as yet, but I do have some interesting ethical questions to ask given the way other non-BK ... and non-Kirpalani ... family members are treated by the BKWSU. (See various topics on Wills and property).
nep·o·tism - noun

Favoritism shown or patronage granted to relatives, as in business.

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by yogi108 » 03 Oct 2008

As usual, a thought provoking post ... I voted for " My Physical family"; meaning my wife and kids rather than the BKs.

I have seen a few BKs dying while being in Gyan, some of them old and some of them young.

Apart from spiritual sustenance ... meaning weekly/daily visits (depending on what is in it for them). Read as how much given or how much going to be given. Daily Murli, probably food from the center ... if necessary a message from Bap-Dada via DG with respect to what could potentially happen ... there is nothing much the BKs can do. Now all this these things are done only in places like the US (Read Dollars!!!) I do not know what happens when someone is dying in India.

The senior sisters usually take good care of themselves including special massages free from students or even paid ones from students if they are experts in that field ...

I have even seen SS going to special treatments like the weeklong ones in therapeutic centers paying a lot of money to cure their Hypertension and stuff like that ... the source of that money is what you and me put in the Bandara ... Anything that is above a dollar limit they need approval from DJ ...

I have heard everything is dependent on DJ for approvals.

There are so many dedicated brothers who are totally surrendered ... meaning that all their income goes to bhandara. It will be interesting if they become sick and say don't have insurance cover ... what really happens.

Ultimately, like everywhere else, its the money which does everything.

Yogi

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Re: Who will care for you when you become old or terminal ill?

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Oct 2008

yogi108 wrote:As usual, a thought provoking post ... I do not know what happens when someone is dying in India.
Neither do I but I would seriously like to know. Not the big name guru BKs who get the VIP sandalwood barbeque treatment but the common or average BK, the villagers and so on.

Of course, my guess, they get dumped back on their lokik families. Do the same problems with money, land, property and Wills happen in India? My guess is yes, too.

It is very important for us to document this, when it started, how far it has spread ... who is at the helm of it.

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