Sakar Murli Points for churning

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 16 Sep 2008

Murli Pt.No.86 (Shrinath and Jagannath)

"Toh Baap kahtey hain-bachhey, achhi reeti purushaarth karo. Daivi gun dhaaran karo. Bhal khaao, piyo, Shrinath dwaarey may jaao. Vahaan ghee kay maal dher miltey hain, ghee kay kuaen hee baney huay hain. Khaatey fir kaun hain? Pujaari. Shrinath aur Jagannath dono ko kaala banaaya hai. Jagannath kay mandir may devataon kay gandey chitra hain, vahaan chaaval ka haanda banaatey hain. Vah pak jaaney say 4 bhaag ho jaatey hain. Sirf chaaval ka hee Bhog lagtaa hai kyonki abhi saadhaaran hain na. Is taraf gareeb aur us taraf saahookaar. Abhi toh dekho kitney gareeb hain. Khaaney-peeney ko kuch nahee miltaa hai. Satyug may toh sab kuch hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 27.12.05, page 2)

“So Father says - Children, make efforts nicely. Imbibe divine virtues. You may eat, drink, and visit Shrinath Dwarey. Lots of dishes prepared from ghee are available there. There are wells of ghee (i.e. ghee is in abundance). But who eats it? The pujaaris (priests). Both Shrinath and Jagannath have been depicted as dark skinned. In the temple of Jagannath there are obscene pictures of deities. Big haandaa (a huge container/vessel) of rice is prepared. When it gets cooked, it gets divided into four portions. Only rice is offered (to the presiding deity) there because now He is ordinary, is not it? On this side are the poor people and on that side are the prosperous ones. Look, now they are so poor. They do not get anything to eat. In the Golden Age everything is available.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.12.05, page 2 published by BKs)

- Baba tells that the temples etc. of the path of worship are the reminders of Confluence Age only. In this way, the temples of Shrinath (a temple dedicated to Shri Krishna situated in Western India famous for its rich worshippers and luxurious offerings) and Jagannath (a temple dedicated to Shri Krishna situated in Eastern India famous for its largely poor worshippers and simple offerings) should also be present in the world of us Brahmins only, is not it? Keeping in view the luxurious treatment given to Brahmin children at the Madhuban situated in Mt. Abu from the beginning of the Yagya till date, there is no doubt that it is a reminder of the Shrinath temple and the part played by Brahma Baba is the reminder of majestic idol of Shrinath. In comparison to this, is the mini-Madhubans situated at Kampil, Farrukhabad (mentioned in the Murlis), where the life style is very simple and where the portions of rice-like souls of four main religions within the Brahmin family get revealed on the basis of their sanskars, a reminder of the Jagannath temple and the part of ShivBaba that has been revealed since 1976 a reminder of the simple wooden idol of Jagannath?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 29 Sep 2008

Murli Pt.No. 87 (GOING TO HEAVEN PRACTICALLY)

"Tum samajh saktey ho Satyug may sukh hee sukh hai. Practical may sab sukh tab paayengey jab vahaan jaayengey. Vah toh tum hee jaano, swarga may kya hoga? Ek shareeer chod fir kahaan jaayengey? Abhi tumhey practical may Baap padhaa rahey hain. Tum jaantey ho ham sach-sach swarg may jaayengey. Vah toh kah detey ham swarg may jaatey hain, pataa bhi nahee hai swarg kisko kahaa jaata hai. Janma-janmaantar yah agyaan kee baatein suntey aaye, abhi Baap tumko satya baatein sunaatey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 10.01.06, page 4)

“You can understand that there are only pleasures in Golden Age. We will get these pleasures practically when we go there. Only you can know that what will be there in heaven? After leaving one body where will you go? Now Father is teaching us practically. You know that we will really go to heaven. They say that we are going to heaven, but they don't even know what is meant by heaven? You have been hearing these matters of ignorance since many births. Now Father is narrating to you the true matters.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 10.01.06, page 4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that We will get these pleasures practically when we go there and that You know that we will really go to heaven. But BKs say that we will study in this birth and go to heaven in the next birth. Once someone leaves his/her body, how can they know whether he/she has gone to heaven or not? Is Baba not talking about getting transformed from human beings to deities in this birth itself?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 10 Oct 2008

Murli Pt. No.88. (ShivBaba NOT IN Soul World)

"Yah toh nischchay hai na-is bhrikuti kay beech may Baap ka nivaas-sthaan hai. Baap khud kahtey hain mai inki bhrikuti kay beech may baithata hoon....Brahma hai toh ShivBaba bhi hai. Brahma nahee ho toh ShivBaba bolengey kaisey? Oopar may ShivBaba ko toh sadaiv Yaad kartey aaye. Ab tum bachhon ko pataa hai ham Baap kay paas yahaan baithey hain. Aisey nahee ki ShivBaba oopar may hai. Unki pratima yahaan pooji jaati hai. Yah baatein bahut samajhney kee hain. Tum toh jaantey ho Baap gyaan ka saagar hai. Gyaan kahaan say sunaatey hain? Kya oopar say sunaatey hain? Yahaan neechey aaya hai. Brahma tan say sunaatey hain. Kayee kahtey hain ham Brahma ko nahee maantey. Parantu ShivBaba khud kahtey hain Brahma tan dwara ki mujhey Yaad karo.....Manushya pukaartey bhi hain O God Father. Fir vah God Father sunta hai kya? Unko kahtey hain na liberator aao ya vahaan baithey liberate karengey? Kalpa-Kalpa Purushottam Sangamyug par hee Baap aatey hain, jismay aatey hain unko hee agar udaa dein toh kya kahengey. Numberone tamopradhaan.....Ab tum ho minority, vah hai majority. Toh tumko kaun maanega? Jab tumhaari vriddhi ho jaayegi, fir tumhaarey yogbal say bahut kheenchkar aayengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 11.01.06, page 1 & 2)

“You have this faith that - Father resides in the middle of this forehead. Father Himself says that I sit in the middle of his forehead. ... If Brahma is there, then ShivBaba is also there. If Brahma is not there, then how will ShivBaba speak? We have always been remembering ShivBaba considering Him to be residing above. Now you children know that we are sitting here with Father. It is not true that ShivBaba is residing above. His idol is worshipped here. These matters are to be understood a lot. You know that Father is an ocean of knowledge. From where does He narrate knowledge? Does He narrate from above? He has come down here. He narrates through the body of Brahma. Many people say that we don't have faith in Brahma. But ShivBaba Himself says through the body of Brahma that ‘Remember me.’ ... Human beings even call, ‘O God Father.’ Then, does that God Father listen? He is called saying, ‘O Liberator, come,’ or will He liberate us while sitting there? Father comes only in the Purushottam Sangamyug (Elevated Confluence Age) of every Kalpa. If someone removes (i.e. neglects) that person itself, in whom He enters then what will he be called! Number one degraded. ... Now you are in minority. They are in majority. So who will accept you? When you increase in numbers, then many will come attracted by your power of Yoga.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 11.01.06, page 1 & 2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling, “It is not true that ShivBaba is residing above” and “He has come down here. He narrates through the body of Brahma.” But the BKs say that ShivBaba has returned to the Soul World in 1969 and comes in the body of Gulzar Dadiji occassionally to meet his children.
- Baba is telling, “ShivBaba Himself says through the body of Brahma that ‘remember me.’ ” But it is taught in the BK Ashrams that ShivBaba should be remembered in the Soul World. Therefore, if ShivBaba is to be remembered through the body of Brahma here, then where is that Brahma? Brahma Baba has left his body and Gulzar Dadiji is not called Brahma.

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 19 Oct 2008

Murli Pt. No.89 (Seven days bhatti)

"Baap kahtey hain, mai tum bachhon say baat kartaa hoon. Haan, kabhi koi mitra sambandhiyon aadi ko ley aatey hain toh thodi baat kar letaa hoon. Pehli baat toh hai pavitra banana hai tab hee buddhi may dhaaranaa hogi. Yahaan kay kaaydey bahut kadey hain. Aagey kahtey thay 7 roz bhatthi may rahnaa hai, aur koi kee Yaad naa aaye, na patra aadi likhnaa hai. Raho bhal kahaan bhi. Parantu saara din bhatthi may rahnaa padey. Abhi toh tum bhatti may padkar fir baahar nikaltey ho." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 04.01.06, page 1)

“Father says, I speak to you children. Yes, sometimes some children bring their friends, relatives, etc. So I talk to them a little. The first matter is that we have to become pure. Only then will the knowledge get inculcated in the intellect. Here the rules are very strict. Earlier, it used to be said that one must stay in the 7 days bhatti. One should not be reminded of anyone else. Neither should we write letters etc. Although one may live anywhere, but one should remain in bhatti for the entire day. Now you have undergone the bhatti and now you venture out.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 04.01.06, page 1 published by BKs)

- The strict bhatti, which Baba is talking about and which used to be organized at the beginning of the Yagya, is not being organized either in Madhuban, Mt. Abu or at any of the Brahmakumari centers. So were only souls at the beginning of the Yagya entitled to undergo bhatti or are all the present Brahmin souls of the Yagya entitled to this Yagya? If so, where is such a strict bhatti being organized presently?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 11 Nov 2008

Murli Pt. No.90 (Shankar also exists)

"Tum bachhey punarjanma may aatey ho, mai nahee aata. Mai is rath may pravesh kartaa hoon. Yah mera rath hai. Shankar say agar poochengey, pooch toh nahee saktey, parantu samjho sookshmavatan may jaakar koi poochey toh kahengey yah sookshma sharir hamaara hai. ShivBaba kahtey hain yah hamaara sharir nahee hai. Yah hamney udhaar liya hai kyonki mujhey bhi karmendriyon ka aadhaar chaahiye." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 20.04.06, page 1)

“You children take rebirths; I do not take rebirth. I enter in this Chariot. This is my Chariot. If you ask Shankar; you cannot ask, but suppose, if anyone goes to the Subtle Region and asks, then he will say, ‘this subtle body is mine.’ ShivBaba says this is not my body. I have borrowed this body because I also require the support of bodily organs.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.04.06, page 1 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that if anyone goes to the Subtle Region and asks Shankar, then he will say that ‘this subtle body is mine’. Only that soul possesses a subtle body, which has a physical body also. Then, like Brahma, which soul plays the role of Shankar in this human world? Is it true that the soul playing the role of Shankar remains in a stage of subtle thinking & churning in spite of being in a physical body?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 20 Nov 2008

Murli Pt.No.91 - (remembrance of incorporeal through corporeal)

"Yah ShivBaba ka Yagya hai. Toh Maat-Pita ikatthey hain. In Mama Baba say toh kuch bhi nahee miltaa. Behad kay baap say hee sab kuch miltaa hai. Vah ek hai. Mama Baba kahaa jaata hai shareerdhaari ko. Niraakaar ko toh shareer hai nahee. Toh Baap kahtey hain ki saakaar kaa bhi mureed mat bano. Yaad maamekam ko karo.....Mahima ek kee hee hai. Unkay sadkey inka maan hai. Tumko koi bhi dehdhaari ko Yaad nahee karnaa hai. Dehdhaari say unka parichay miltaa hai. Lekin Yaad unko karnaa hai. Baba bhi dehdhaari hai, sab parichay detey hain. Parantu bahut aisey bhi besamajh bachhey hain jo kahtey hain ham toh direct ShivBaba kee prerana say gyaan ley saktey hain. Agar aisa hota toh fir is rath may unko aaney kee kyaa darkaar padee hai. Aisey bhi hain jo samajhtey hain is saakaar say hamaara kyaa kaam. Baap kahtey hain manmanaabhav. Unko Yaad karo parantu through toh inkay kahtey hain na. Fir numberwaar regard rakhnaa hota hai. Regard vahee rakhengey jo numberwaar gaddi par baithney vaaley hongey. Mama Baba pehley baithengey rajgaddi par. Fir unko follow karnaa hai. Bahut praja banaani padey. Pad bhi bahut oonch hai. Darney kee koi baat nahee hai. Aeroplane may koi naye chadhtey hain toh jaisey ki dartey hain. Koi toh dekho chandrama kay oopar jaatey rahtey hain. Practice kee baat hai na." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 16.03.06, page 1 & 2)

“This is a Yagya of ShivBaba. So Mother and Father are together. Nothing is achieved through this Mama-Baba. Everything is achieved from the unlimited Father. He is one. Mama-Baba are said to be bodily beings (dehdhaari). The incorporeal one does not have a body. So Father says that do not become the followers (mureed) of the corporeal. Remember none but one (maamekam)....The praises are for ‘one’ only. This corporeal is respected because of Him. You must not remember any bodily being. His introduction is received through the bodily being. But we must remember Him. Baba is also a bodily being. He gives the entire introduction. But there are many such ignorant children who say that we can obtain direct knowledge with the inspiration of ShivBaba. Had it been so, then where is the need for Him to come in this Chariot? There are such people also who think that we do not have any dealing with the corporeal. Father says Manmanaabhav. Remember Him, but it is said ‘through Him’, isn’t it? Then one must also have numberwise regard. Only those children will show regard, who are going to sit on the throne numberwise. Mama and Baba will sit on the throne first. Then we must follow them. We must make a lot of subjects (praja). The post is also great. There is no need to fear. If a new person gets into a plane, then he feels frightened. And look, some keep visiting the moon. It is a matter of practice, isn’t it?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 16.03.06, page 1 & 2 published by BKs)

- BKs say that 1969 onwards incorporeal Father Shiv is in the Soul World. That is why we must remember ShivBaba as a point of light in the Soul World. But Baba is telling that we must remember the incorporeal through the corporeal. So it the remembrance of just the incorporeal in the Soul World in accordance with Shrimat?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 05 Dec 2008

Murli Pt.No.92 - (arrival of three personalities)

"Ab jayanti manaatey ho-likhtey ho 70vi Shivjayanti, Baba ki padharamani huay 70 varsh huay. (1936-2006) Fir saath-saath Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar kee bhi padharamani hai. Trimurti Brahma kee jayanti koi dikhaatey nahee hain, dikhaana jaroori hai kyonki Baba kahta hai mai Brahma dwara sthapanaa fir say kartaa hoon." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 04.03.06, page 1)

“Now you celebrate Jayanti (birthday) – you write 70th Shivjayanti. It has been 70 years since Baba has arrived. (1936-2006). Then along with Him Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar have also arrived. Nobody shows the birthday of Trimurti Brahma. It is necessary to show that because Baba says I once again cause establishment through Brahma.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 04.03.06, page 1 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that it has been 70 years since the arrival of Baba along with Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. BKs give the introduction of Brahma Dada Lekhraj, but they have not yet provided the information about the souls, who, like Brahma, play the roles of Shankar and Vishnu on this human world drama stage within our aloukik Brahmin family. BKs describe Shankar as bein a Subtle Region dweller only. But as per the above version of Baba, not just Shankar, but the souls playing the roles of Brahma and Vishnu should also be present in this world only. In the Murli dated 3.3.06 Baba has said that knowing Father through Father is termed knowledge. So it is Father Himself, who can give us the actual introduction of Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar and for that Father Shiv should also be present in this world only, and not in the Soul World, isn’t it? If Father Shiv and Brahma, Vishnu & Shankar are present in this world only, then where are they?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 12 Dec 2008

Murli Pt.No.93 (Shiv Shankar)

"Tum Bharatwasiyon kay paas ShivBaba aakar sharir dhaaran kartey hain jisko Bhaageerath bhi kahtey hain. Mandiron may Shankar ka chitra dikhaatey hain kyonki vah Shiv Shankar ikattha samajh letey hain. Yah samajhtey nahee ki Shiv toh niraakaar hai, Shankar toh aakaari hai. Shiv Shankar ikattha kaisey kahtey hain. Achha fir bail par savaari kaun kartey hain. Shiv va Shankar? Sookshmavatan may bail kahaan say aaya? Shiv rahtaa hai moolvatan may, Shankar sookshmavatan may. Moolvatan may sab aatmaen hain. Sookshmavatan may sirf Brahma, Vishnu, Shankar hain, vahaan jaanvar hotey nahin. Baap kahtey hain mai saadhaaran boodhey tan may pravesh kar tumko samjhaata hoon." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 03.03.06, page 2)

“ShivBaba comes to you Indians (Bharatwasis) and assumes a body, which is also called Bhaageerath, i.e. the lucky Chariot. The picture of Shankar is depicted in the temples because they consider Shiv and Shankar to be one and the same. They do not understand that Shiv is incorporeal and Shankar is subtle. How can they call Shiv and Shankar to be the same? OK, then who rides on the bull? Is it Shiv or Shankar? From where did the bull come in the Subtle Region? Shiv lives in the Soul World (moolvatan), Shankar lives in the Subtle Region (sookshmavatan). In the Soul World all are souls. In the Subtle Region there is only Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. There are no animals there. Father says, I come in an ordinary aged body and explain you.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 03.03.06, page 2 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that Shiv and Shankar have been mixed up in the path of worship and the picture of Shankar is depicted in the temples. Baba also says in the Murlis that whatever happens in the path of worship is a reminder of the events of the Confluence Age only. BKs say that Shankar exists only in the Subtle Region and not in this corporeal world. Then why has Shankar been mixed up with Shiv in the path of worship and why is Shankar depicted in the temples?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 17 Dec 2008

Murli Pt.No.94 (Greeting Card and donation)

"Cards jo chapwaatey hain usmay bhi yah likhnaa chaahiye – oonch tay oonch behad kay Baap kee khushkhabari……Behad ka Baap gyaan ka saagar, patit-paavan, sadgati-daata, Gita ka bhagwaan Shiv kaisey Brahmakumar-kumariyon dwara fir say Kaliyugi sampoorna vikaari, bhrashtaachaari patit duniya ko satyugi sampoorna nirvikaari paavan shreshthaachaari duniya banaa rahey hain. Vah khushkhabari aakar suno athava samjho. Government say bhi tumhaari yah pratigya hai ki ham Bharat may fir say Satyugi shreshthaachaari 100 pratishat pavitrata sukhh-shaanti ka daivi swarajya kaisey sthaapan kar rahey hain aur is vikaari duniya ka vinaash kaisey hoga, so aakar samjho. Aisa clear likhnaa chaahiye…...…Yah jaroor samjhaana hai ki Prajapita Brahmakumar-kumariyan apney tan-man-dhan say yah kar rahey hain. Toh manushya aisa kabhi na samjhein ki yah koi bheekh va donation aadi maangtey hain. Duniya may toh sab donation par hee chaltey hain. Yahaan tum kahtey ho ki ham BK apney tan-man-dhan say kar rahey hain. Vah khud hee swarajya letey hain toh jaroor apnaa hee kharcha karengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 07.03.06, page 1 & 2)

“In the cards that you get printed, it should also be written – a good news of the highest of all, unlimited Father…..The unlimited Father, ocean of knowledge, purifier of the sinful, bestower of true salvation, Gita sermonizer God Shiv is once again transforming the Iron-Aged, completely vicious, unrighteous, sinful world into a Golden Aged, viceless, pure, righteous world through Brahmakumar-kumaris. Come and listen or understand this good news. You have promised to the Government also that come and understand how we are establishing the Golden Aged, righteous, 100 percent deity world of purity and peace and how this vicious world is going to be destroyed. It should be written clearly like this…....It must certainly be explained that Prajapita Brahmakumar-kumaris are doing this with their own body-mind-wealth so that no human being would think that these people ask any kind of alms or donation etc. Everyone in the world is dependant on donations only. Here you say that we BKs are doing this with our body-mind-wealth. They obtain their own kingdom (swarajya); so certainly they will spend their own money.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 07.03.06, page 1 & 2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that BKs are obtaining their swarajya (self-rule or kingdom) through their own body, mind and wealth and they do not even seek alms or donations etc. But it is observed that Bhandaaris, i.e. donation boxes are kept in every center to seek donations. Donations are also sought directly or indirectly for any public programme or construction of buildings. Is it in accordance with Baba’s Shreemat?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 28 Dec 2008

Murli Pt.No.95 (1st, 2nd and 3rd class Murli)

"Baba samjhaatey rahtey hain, tum sammukh baithey ho. Jo piya ke saath hain, unkay liye sammukh barsaat hai. Sabsey jaasti mazaa sammukh ka hai. Fir second number hai tape. Third number Murli. ShivBaba Brahma dwara sab kuchh samjhaatey hain. Yah (Brahma) bhi jaantey toh hain na. Fir bhi tum yahee samjho ki “ShivBaba kahtey hain”, yah na samajhney kaaran bahut avagya kartey hain. ShivBaba jo kahtey hain, vah kalyaankaari hee hai. Bhal akalyaan ho jaaye, vah bhi kalyaan ke roop may badal jaayega." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 05.04.06, page 4)

“Baba keeps explaining, you are sitting face to face with him. There is a rain (of knowledge) face to face for those who are with the beloved. Maximum pleasure is in ‘face to face’ (sammukh). Then second number is tape. Third number is Murli. ShivBaba explains everything through Brahma. This (Brahma) also knows, isn’t it? Even then you think that, “It is ShivBaba who speaks”. Many (children) disobey because they do not understand this. Whatever ShivBaba says is beneficial (kalyaankaari) only. Even if something harmful (akalyaan) takes place, it will also get transformed into a beneficial form.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 05.04.06, page 4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that the maximum pleasure lies in listening to ShivBaba through Brahma’s body face to face. Then second number is the Murli recorded in the tape. Third number is the printed Murli. It has been observed that since 1969 emphasis is laid only on the third class Murli of Baba at the BK centers all over the world including Madhuban, Mount Abu. The second-class Murli is sometimes played at Madhuban, Mount Abu (perhaps once in a week) and in the remaining centers it is probably not even played once in a week?

- As far as the first class Murli is concerned, can the Avyakt Vanis narrated 8-10 times in a year through the body of Gulzar Dadiji be called as first class Murli because as per ShivBaba the first-class Murli is narrated through the body of Brahma and Gulzar Dadiji is never called Brahma? So did the fortune of listening to ShivBaba’s face to face Murli belong only to those children who entered the path of knowledge prior to 1969 or is ShivBaba still causing the rain of knowledge face to face practically through the body of Brahma anywhere?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 04 Jan 2009

Murli Pt.No.96 (Brahma also used to listen to the Murli)

"Baap samjhaa rahey hain, mai bhi suntaa rahtaa hoon. Pehley mai suntaa hoon, bhal mai bhi sunaa saktaa hoon, parantu bachhon kay kalyaan arth kahtaa hoon – tum sadaa samjho ki ShivBaba samjhaatey hain. Vichaar saagar manthan karnaa bachhon ka kaam hai. Jaisey tum kartey ho, vaisey mai bhi kartaa hoon. Nahee toh pehley number may kaisey jaayengey, lekin apney ko gupt rakhtey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 6.6.06, page 4)

“Father is explaining, I also keep listening. First I listen. Although I can also narrate, but for the benefit of children I say – you always think that it is ShivBaba who explains. It is the task of the children to think and churn. Just as you think and churn, I too think and churn. Otherwise how will I achieve the first number? But I keep myself incognito.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 06.06.06, page 4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that “I also keep listening. First I listen.” It means that when incorporeal Father Shiv used to enter into Brahma Baba to narrate Murlis, then Brahma Baba also used to listen to Murlis, and in fact he used to listen first of all. But, Gulzar Dadi’s ears are unable to listen to the Avyakt Vanis. After the departure of BapDada, she has to listen to/ read the Avyakt Vani. Does it not prove that Father Shiv does not enter into Gulzar Dadi and that it is only the subtle-bodied soul of Brahma who enters into her?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 16 Jan 2009

Murli Pt.No.97 (ShivBaba and Prajapita are here)

"Ham aatma Paramdham may Baap kay saath rahney vaali hain. Vahaan say aatey hain yahaan part bajaaney. Aatma kahti hai O Baba. Saakaari srishti may hai saakaari Baba. Niraakaari srishti may niraakar Baba. Yah toh bilkul sahaj baat hai. Ab Brahma ko kahtey hain Prajapita Brahma. So toh yahaan thahraa na.....Pehley-pehley toh yah nishchay karo ki ham aatma Baap kay saath rahney vaaley hain. Ham unkay bachhey hain toh jaroor varsa milnaa chaahiye. ....Tum bachhon ki buddhi may hai - Baba is sharir may aaya hua hai. Roohani Baap inmay aakar roohon ko padhaatey hain. Sookshmavatan may toh nahee padhaayengey......Tum kahtey ho Baba aaj say 5 hazaar varsh pehley ham aapkey paas aaye thay - Shudra say Brahman ban-ney. Ab fir ham aapkey paas aaye hain. Vah niraakaar honay kaaran tum kahengey Dada paas aaye hain. Baap nay ismay pravesh kiya hai. Baap kahtey hain - jaisey tum organs lay part bajaatey ho vaisey hee mai bhi organs kaa aadhaar letaa hoon. Nahin toh mai part kaisey bajaaun?" (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 2.6.06, page 2 & 3)

“We souls live with Father in the Soul World. We come from there to play our parts here. Soul says - O Baba. In the corporeal world there is corporeal Baba. In the incorporeal world there is incorporeal Baba. This is a very easy matter. Now Brahma is said to be Prajapita Brahma. So, he would be here, is not it?....First of all develop the faith that we souls live with Father. We are His children; so we should certainly get inheritance from Him.....It is in the intellect of you children that Baba has come in this body. Spiritual Father comes in him and teaches souls. He will not teach in the Subtle Region.....You say that Baba we had come to you 5000 years ago to get transformed from Shudra to Brahmins. Now we have come to you once again. Because He is incorporeal you would say that you have come to meet Dada. Father has entered into him. Father says - just as you play the parts with the help of the organs, similarly I also take the support of organs. Otherwise how would I play my part?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 02.06.06, page 2 & 3 published by BKs)

- BKs say that Brahma is in the Subtle Region. But Baba is telling that Prajapita Brahma should be here and that Baba has come in this body. Baba is also telling that knowledge will not be taught in the Subtle Region. Does it not mean that ShivBaba is playing His part through Prajapita Brahma in this world itself?
- Baba is telling that first of all develop the faith that we souls live with Father. Will we have to leave our bodies like Brahma Baba to live with Father, while Baba Himself is telling that just as you play the parts with the help of the organs, similarly I also take the support of organs. Otherwise how would I play my part? When Baba Himself has to take the support of the body to play His part, then how can we obtain the experience of living with Father Shiv without bodies in the Soul World?
- Baba is telling that we are His children; so we should certainly get inheritance from Him. But Brahma Baba himself has left his body without obtaining or giving inheritance; then who will grant the inheritance to us?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 23 Jan 2009

Murli Pt.No.98 (Ram and Sita)

"Bhagwaan kee toh mahimaa aparamapaar hai. Kahtey hain – Hey Baba, tumhaari gati mat nyaari arthaat tumhaari jo Shrimat miltee hai, vah sabsey nyaari hai. Baap ko kahtey hee hain, gati-sadgati daata Parampita Parmaatma, toh buddhi oopar may jaati hai. Dukh kay time unkee hee Yaad aati hai. Agar Ram-Sita buddhi may ho fir toh saara Ramayan buddhi may aa jaaye. Tum toh pukaartey hee ho, us ek Baap ko. Sivaay ek Baap kay koi bhi saakari manushya va aakaari devata say buddhi nahee lagaani hai. Patit-paavan hai hee ek Baap. Koi bhi Satsang may jaakar yahee gaatey hain – Patit-paavan SitaRam, arth kuch nahee. Yah sab hai – Bhakti marg ka gaayan." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 9.6.06, page 2)

“God’s praises are infinite. It is said – O Baba, your moves and opinions (gati-mat) is unique, i.e. whatever Shrimat (Godly direction) you give is unique. Father is said to be bestower of salvation and true salvation, the Supreme Father Supreme Soul. So the intellect looks above (i.e. towards the Soul World). He is remembered only at the time of sorrows. If Ram and Sita were in the intellect, then the entire Ramayan would fit into the intellect. You call upon that one Father only. One should not connect one’s intellect with any corporeal human being or subtle deity except one Father. Only one Father is the purifier of the sinful ones. Whichever satsang (spiritual gathering) one visits, one sings – Patit-paavan Sita-Ram (i.e. Sita and Ram - the purifier of the sinful ones) without knowing the meaning. All these are the praises of the path of worship. Everyone is in Ravan’s jail.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 09.06.06, page 2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that if Ram and Sita were in the intellect, then the entire Ramayan would fit into the intellect. But BKs either do not give any importance to Ram and Sita or say that Ram failed. If Ram failed, then who is praised as the purifier of the sinful ones, i.e. Ram and Sita? Baba says that the stories of Ramayan and Mahabharat are of the Confluence Age, then who are the souls that play the roles of Ram and Sita, by knowing whom the entire Ramayan would fit into the intellect?
- Baba is telling that one should not connect one’s intellect with any corporeal human being or subtle deity except one Father. Since 1969 all the BKs have been remembering the subtle body of Brahma Baba. As per the above Murli doing so is not correct. Then, should we remember incorporeal point of light Shiv? But the souls of animals, birds and human beings are all points. Then how do we come to know which soul is the soul of one Father, the purifier of the sinful ones? Certainly when He enters into a corporeal body and plays an incorporeal part, then one can know who is that ‘One Father – the purifier of the sinful ones’?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 16 Feb 2009

Murli Pt. No. 99 (AS THE BEGINNING SO THE END)

"Yah makaan aadi sab tum bachhon nay apney liye banaaye hain. Yah kiskee jaageer nahee, yah toh temporary hai kyonki ant samay bachhon ko yahaan aakar rahnaa hai. Hamaara yaadgaar bhi yahaan hai. Toh pichaadi may yahaan aakar vishraam lengey. Baap kay paas bhaagengey vah jo yogyukta hongey. Unho ko madad bhi milegi. Baap kee bahut madad miltee hai. Tumko yahaan baith vinaash dekhnaa hai. Jaisey shuru may Baba nay tum bachhon ko bahlaaya hai. Fir pichaadi may bahlaaney shuru karengey. Bahut pyaar karengey. Jaisey Vaikunth may baithey hain, bahut nazdeek hotay jaayengey." [/color](BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 23.06.06, pg 3)

“You children have constructed all these buildings, etc. for yourself. This is not anybody's estate (jaagir). This is temporary because children have to come here and stay in the end. Our memorial is also here. So (children) would come here and take rest in the end. Those who are yogyukta (i.e. those who remain immersed in Baba's remembrance) would run to meet Father. They would receive the help also. A lot of help is received from Father. You have to sit here and witness destruction. Just as Baba has entertained you children in the beginning; He would start entertaining you once again in the end. He would shower a lot of love. (Children would feel) as if they are sitting in heaven. They would keep coming very close.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.06.06, pg.3 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that just as Baba has entertained you children in the beginning, He would start entertaining you once again in the end. He would shower a lot of love. In the beginning of the Yagya, aloukik mother and Father were present in the form of Brahma Baba and Mama Saraswati to entertain the children. So, where are the parents in the Brahmin family now?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by andrey » 12 Mar 2009

Murli Pt. No. 100 (IMPORTANCE OF CORPOREAL MEDIUM)

"Aisi-aisi bachhiyaan hain, jo ek-doh ko itnaa pyaar kartee hain jo ShivBaba ko bhi itnaa nahee kartee. ShivBaba kahtey hain – tumko buddhiyog merey saath lagaana hai ya ek doh may aashik-maashook ban jaana hai. Fir merey ko bilkul hee bhool jaatey hain. Tumko toh buddhiyog merey saath jodnaa hai, ismay mehnat lagtee hai. Buddhi tootati hee nahee hai. ShivBaba kay badley, din-raat ek-doh ko hee Yaad kartey rahtey hain. Baba naam sunaaye toh traitor ban jaatey hain, fir gaali deney may bhi deri nahee kartey. Is Baba ko gaali dee toh ShivBaba bhi jhat sun legaa. Brahma say nahee padhey toh ShivBaba say padh na sakey. Brahma bigar toh ShivBaba bhi sun na sakey, isliye kahtey hain saakaar say jaakar poocho. Kayee achhey-achhey bachhey hain jo saakaar ko maantey hee nahee. Samajhtey hain – yah toh purushaarthi hain. Purushaarthi toh sab hain parantu tumko follow toh Maa-baap ko hee karnaa hai. Koi toh samjhaaney say samajh jaatey hain, koi ki takdeer may nahee hai toh samajhtey nahee. Serviceable bantey nahee. Parantu buddhi ek baap say rakhnee hoti hai. Bahut aajkal nikley hain jo kahtey hain merey may ShivBaba aatey hain, ismay badee sambhaal chaahiye. Maya kee bahut praveshataa hoti hai, jinmay aagey Shri Narayan aadi aatey thay, vah bhi aaj hain nahee. Sirf praveshataa say kuch hota nahee hai. Baap kahtey hain – Maamekam Yaad karo. Baaki merey may yah aata hai, vah aata hai....yah sab Maya hai. Meri Yaad hee nahee hogi toh praapti kya hogi, jab tak Baap say seedha Yoga nahee rakhengey toh pad kaisey paayengey, dhaarana kaisey hogi." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 04.05.06, pg 2 & 3)

- Baba kah rahey hain ki " Brahma bigar toh ShivBaba bhi sun na sakey, isliye kahtey hain saakaar say jaakar poocho” aur yah bhi kah rahey hain ki “Purushaarthi toh sab hain parantu tumko follow toh Maa-baap ko hee karnaa hai.” Toh abhi Brahman parivaar may saakaar maat-pitaa kahaan hain jinsay ham raay lay sakein ya jinhein follow kar sakein?

“There are such bachhiyaan (female Brahmin children) also who love each other so deeply that they do not love even ShivBaba to that extent. ShivBaba says – do you have to connect your intellect with me or do you have to become the lover and beloved (aashik-maashook) amongst yourselves? Then they forget me completely. You have to establish connection of the intellect with me. This involves a lot of hard work (mehnat). The intellect does not get disconnected (from bodily beings) at all. Instead of ShivBaba, they keep remembering each other day and night. If Baba declares the names, then they would become traitors; then they would not even hesitate in defaming Baba. If you defame this Baba, then ShivBaba would also listen immediately. If you do not study from Brahma, then you would not be able to study from ShivBaba. Even ShivBaba cannot listen without Brahma; that is why He says – go and ask the corporeal medium (saakaar). There are many nice children who do not have faith in the corporeal at all. They feel – he is an effort maker (purushaarthi). Everyone is a purushaarthi, but you have to follow mother and Father only. Some understand when they are explained. And if it is not in their fate, then they don’t understand. They do not become serviceable. But the intellect is to be connected with one Father. Now-a-days many such persons have emerged who say that ShivBaba comes in me. A lot of care needs to be taken in this. Maya enters a lot. The ones, in whom Shri Narayan used to enter earlier, are not present today. Nothing happens just be entering into someone. Father says remember me alone. As regards – ‘this enters into me, that comes in me’ ...all this is Maya. If there isn’t my remembrance at all, then what would be the benefit? Until one does not get connected with Father directly, then how will they achieve the post, how will they imbibe virtues.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 04.05.06, pg.2 & 3 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that ‘Even ShivBaba cannot listen without Brahma; that is why He says – go and ask the corporeal medium (saakaar)’ and He is also saying that ‘Everyone is a purushaarthi, but you have to follow mother and Father only.’ So, where are the corporeal parents in the Brahmin family now, from whom we could seek advice or follow them?

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