Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

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shivsena
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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 19 Dec 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

I was just reading a Murli and came across a very interesting point, which should be an eye-opener to all PBKs.

Murli 2-2-97 says, "Bharat hi 16 kala sampoorna banta hai, aur koi khand full moon ho na sake. Bharat pahele full moon hota hai, peeche toh andhiara ho jaata hai." [meaning that "Bharat becomes16 degree pure, no other khand becomes full moon. Bharat first becomes full moon, then in the end becomes darker."]

In the above Murli, Shiva is clearly associating chaitanya Bharat with moon (Gyan-chandrama brahma alias Krishna) and not with Ram who is Gyan-surya. After reading this Murli point, any soul with a logical mind and a little common sense, will clearly associate chaitanya Bharat with Krishna and not with Ram. (as advance knowledge teaches.)

Also, if the readers recollect that the Indian(Bharat) calender is based on moon and has 28 days and is divided in two phases: "one is Krishna-paksh(brahma ki raat) where moon is in girti kalaa and other is shukla-paksh(brahma ki din) where moon starts progressing from no kalaa to 16 degrees full moon". The same shooting is happening in Advance Party at present, where Brahma alias Krishna alias Bharat is in girti kalaa(Krishna-paksh) and only when Ramshivbaba comes in future, then Brahma will be in chadti kalaa. (shukla-paksh)

shivsena

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 26 Dec 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

In Murli 10-5-96, it is said "Iss samay Bharat shrapit hai, bahut dukhi hai" [meaning: "At this time, Bharat is cursed, it is sorrowful' ]

The above Murli point is from Sakar Murli spoken between 1965-69. What i do not understand is, there was no chaitanya Bharat-Ram, as believed by PBKs, during that period, so which Bharat was Shiva refering to ??? Now since this Murli was repeated in 1996, who is that personality Bharat in 1996 who is cursed and sorrowful ???

Can you please share your views.
shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 26 Dec 2008

shivsena wrote:The above Murli point is from Sakar Murli spoken between 1965-69. What i do not understand is, there was no chaitanya Bharat-Ram, as believed by PBKs, during that period, so which Bharat was Shiva refering to ??? Now since this Murli was repeated in 1996, who is that personality Bharat in 1996 who is cursed and sorrowful ???
The living Bharat-Ram was definitely present during the period 1965-69, although he was not playing a direct role in the Yagya. Perhaps he was playing a role of being cursed and sorrowful at that time. PBKs do know that Baba Virendra Dev Dixit spent his childhood and youth in utter poverty. Even after getting revealed as the new Chariot of Shiv, he spent many years in poverty.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 27 Dec 2008

arjun wrote: PBKs do know that Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit spent his childhood and youth in utter poverty. Even after getting revealed as the new Chariot of Shiv, he spent many years in poverty.
Dear arjun Bhai.

Does living in utter poverty mean that the soul is cursed and sorrowful ?? [ i think it is the state of mind and not of the body ]

Also which is this Bharat in 1996, which Shiva foresaw while narrating the Murlis. Is it Krishna's soul or is it Ram's soul ? Advance knowledge teaches that Bharat(Ram) became viceless and karmatit in 1976, so who is this Bharat who is cursed and sorrowful in 1996.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 27 Dec 2008

shivsena wrote:Also which is this Bharat in 1996, which Shiva foresaw while narrating the Murlis. Is it Krishna's soul or is it Ram's soul ? Advanced Knowledge teaches that Bharat(Ram) became viceless and karmatit in 1976, so who is this Bharat who is cursed and sorrowful in 1996.
Suppose a Murli is narrated in 1965 and one of its points is applicable to a particular soul and is revised every five years by BKs upto 2036, Is it necessary that the soul will be in the same stage throughout the hundred years Copper Age? Suppose a soul is degraded in 1965 will it remain degraded throughout the Copper Age?

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by new knowledge » 27 Dec 2008

I cannot understand if it is believed that the Murli statements are applicable to those dates whenever Murlis get revised (as if Shiva had fixed the dates of revisions of Murlis!!!), then what's the problem to accept the editing, cutting, formatting of revised Murlis pre-planned by Shiva, as like fixation of dates of revision of Murlis by Shiva Himself, why should the editing, cutting & formating not be logically considered pre-planned by Shiva ??

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 27 Dec 2008

Dear arjun Bhai and new knowledge Bhai.

This opens up a very interesting topic about how the Sakar Murlis of 3 and half years from 1965 june to 1969 jan are repeated every 5 years and who selects the Murlis to be repeated and who decides what is to be edited in revised Murlis.

The revised Murlis are not pre-planned by Shiva, nor is the cutting, editing, changing etc are planned by Shiva; they are just planned as per shooting period of behad ka drama, the knowledge of which is vested in Shiva only and it is the future events going to take place in the behad ka drama which are narrated by Shiva between 1965-69. I do not see any sense in believing that all Murlis of Shiva are applicable only to the time in which they were narrated(as believed by BKs and PBKs), but i believe that any Murli point should be applicable to the date on which it is repeated or for the future ( never for the past, as it is said in Vanis "beeti so beeti" ie "past is past"], for eg. if Murli says "Bharat hi jhoot khand banta hai aur Bharat hi sach khand banta hai", then it refers to the present and future stage of Bharat in this behad ka drama, not the past stages of previous Kalpa. Any other Murli point can be explained on this basis. This is what i think.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 29 Dec 2008

shivsena wrote:I do not see any sense in believing that all Murlis of Shiva are applicable only to the time in which they were narrated(as believed by BKs and PBKs)
PBKs don't say that all Murlis of Shiv are applicable to the time in which they were narrated. There are some Murli points which have to be interpreted in a limited sense and some in an unlimited sense. For example there are Murlis which say that Brahma Baba went to Varanasi and drew pictures on the walls on the banks of river Ganges. Suppose this point is revised in BK centers today, can it be made applicable as on date? This incident took place in a physical sense in the 1930s and was mentioned by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba somewhere between 1965-69 in the Murlis. So, how can it be made applicable in a physical sense in 2008? If you wish you can draw any metaphorical sense to prove your own point, but for a lay man it cannot be made applicable in a physical sense in 2008.

But there are also many general Murli points which are applicable even after Brahma Baba's demise. There are points about the role of Prajapita, Shankar, etc. which can be made applicable even now.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 30 Dec 2008

For example there are Murlis which say that Brahma Baba went to Varanasi and drew pictures on the walls on the banks of river Ganges. Suppose this point is revised in BK centers today, can it be made applicable as on date? This incident took place in a physical sense in the 1930s and was mentioned by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba somewhere between 1965-69 in the Murlis. So, how can it be made applicable in a physical sense in 2008?
Dear arjun Bhai.

The points of Gyan in Murlis (gems of knowledge) are to be considered and not the incidents of past in behad ka drama. The points of Gyan in Murlis are always refering to the future behad ka drama and not to the broad drama (as thought by BKs and PBKs).

Can you give your views about how and when "Bharat hi jhoot khand banta hai aur Bharat hi sach khand banta hai", in this behad ka drama. All points relating to Bharat and Bharatwasis in Murlis are related to future behad ka drama only.

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 30 Dec 2008

shivsena wrote:Can you give your views about how and when "Bharat hi jhoot khand banta hai aur Bharat hi sach khand banta hai", in this behad ka drama.
I think we have discussed this issue many times on this forum and elsewhere and since our viewpoints don't match, it is better to leave it. But you are free to express your views for the information of the new visitors to this forum, just as ShivBaba says that I keep repeating the old points for my new children. :D

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 31 Dec 2008

Dear arjun Bhai.

I am sorry if i have repeated my query as i have never heard this being clarified in any cd.

Do PBKs consider themselves as "Bharatwasis" in view of believing Ram's soul as chaitanya Bharat. If yes, then who are "videshis" and "double videshis"???
Can you please give your views on this important issue as there are many ambiguities regarding who is who !!

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 06 Jan 2009

Dear arjun Bhai.

Murlis says " Bharat hi jhoot khand banta hai aur Bharat hi sach khand banta hai";
Murli also says " Bhakti hai brahma ki raat aur Gyan hai brahma ka din";
Then again Murli says that " Krishna-bhagwanuvach aur shiv-bhagwanuvach me raat-din ka farak hai".

If one compares and combines all the 3 Murli points, it is very clear to see the equation: ''Bharat=Brahma=Krishna''. But PBKs still insist on seeing ''Ram=Bharat=prajapita brahma= Sangamyugi Krishna.''

If Ram=Bharat, then they have no answer to ''how-when Ram becomes jhoot khand'' and ''how-when Ram becomes sach khand'' in this behad ka drama. In Bhakti marg it is always said ''Ram naam satya hai" (Ram is truth); so i cannot accept and understand the pbk belief that ''Ram as Bharat becomes jhoot khand'' (which is never mentioned in any Murli)

shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 27 Jan 2009

Dear arjun Bhai.

Avaykt Vani 6-12-75 says, " Videshi dwara hi Bharat ke kumbhakaran jagne hain.....Bharat ke namigrami ko jagana hai. Yah hai videshion ka bhavishya....sadharan kumbhakaran nahin lekin namigrami kumbhakaran ko jagana hai, jis ek ke jagne se anek jag jaaye usko kahete hain namigrami."
[ meaning: Foriegners are going to be instrumental in waking the kumbhakarans of Bharat.....Their future (duty) is to wake up the well-known kumbhakarans of Bharat, not ordinary but well-known kumbhakarans.]

The above Vani point clearly distinguishes between the videshis and Bharat ke kumbhakaran; but who are these two groups is still not well defined by advance knowledge;
BKs would interpret the 'videshis' in above point as the 'foreigners' outside Bharat and Kumbhakaran as the non-bk population of India. It would be interesting to note how would advance knowledge interpret the 'videshis' and 'Bharat ke kumbhakaran.'

Please give your views.
shivsena.

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by arjun » 30 Jan 2009

It would be interesting to note how would Advanced Knowledge interpret the 'videshis' and 'Bharat ke kumbhakaran.'
One view is that the Hindi speaking North Indians constitute the 'Bharat ke Kumbhakaran' who will be awakened by the videshis, i.e. the South Indians, who are non-Hindi speaking. But this view is applicable to the outside world and not within the BK/PBK world.

Another view could be that the famous Kumbhakarnas in the BK world would be awakened by the PBKs who are double videshis (banished by the outside world and BK world).

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Re: Who is Bharat and who are Bharatwasis ??

Post by shivsena » 31 Jan 2009

arjun wrote:
Another view could be that the famous Kumbhakarnas in the BK world would be awakened by the PBKs who are double videshis (banished by the outside world and BK world).
Dear arjun Bhai.

I cannot understand how BKs become ''Bharat ke kumbhakaran'' when they have still not recognised who is chaitanya Bharat ????
Also how can PBKs be double-videshis ??? It is true that PBKs have been banished from the bk world but PBKs have not been banished from the outside world; they have left the outside world of their own free will and they still live and earn their living from the outside world; so PBKs cannot be rightly called as double-videshis. Moreover, most PBKs when asked they always say that they are ''bharatwasis'' and they would never like to be called ''videshis''.

So I feel, that it is the PBKs, who have wrongly recognised Ram's soul as Bharat, are the real kumbhakarans of Bharat, who will be awakened by the double-videshis ie. potential 108 souls(banished by BKs and PBKs) who will prove to the PBKs that advance knowledge is Krishna ki jhooti Gita and that Ramshivbaba is the real God of Gita in future.

shivsena.

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