Sakar Murli Points for churning

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 24 Mar 2009

Murli Pt. No. 101 (Father comes in Magadh country)

"ShivBaba kahtey hain – tum hamaarey bachhey ho. Tum aatmaen bhi niraakaar thi. Parantu gyaan toh saakaar may chaahiye. Tum jaantey ho ham Aadi Sanaatan Devi Devataa Dharma kay thay, Brahma dwara rachnaa yahaan hoti hai. Shiv Jayanti bhi yahaan manaai jaati hai. Yahaan Magadh desh may hee janma liya hai. Baap kahtey hain yah desh bahut pavitra swarg tha. Abhi inko nark, Magadh desh kahaa jaata hai. Fir swarg ban-na hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 16.05.06, page 1)

“ShivBaba says - you are my children. You souls were also incorporeal. But knowledge is required (to be given) in corporeal form. You know that we belonged to the Aadi Sanaatan Devi Devataa Dharma (ancient deity religion); creation through Brahma takes place here. Shiv Jayanti (Birthday of Shiv) is also celebrated here. He has taken birth here in the Magadh country only. Father says – this country was very pure heaven. Now it is called a hell, Magadh country. It has to become a heaven again.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 16.05.06, page 1 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that Father has taken birth here in the Magadh country only. The region between the rivers Ganga and Yamuna is called Magadh country (a kingdom of the ancient India corresponding to present states of U.P. and Bihar) Father is also telling that now it is called a hell, Magadh country. If we look at the present circumstances then the states of U.P. and Bihar in India are considered to be among the most backward states, which are also considered to be the worst states from the point of view of law and order. But BKs say that Father comes in Sindh, Pakistan or Mount Abu. That region is not called Magadh country. But the part of Shiv was played even in that region. So can we say that Shiv played the role of mother (Brahma) at Mt. Abu and plays the role of a Father (Prajapita) in the Magadh country?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by shivsena » 08 Apr 2009

arjun wrote: Baba is telling that Father has taken birth here in the Magadh country only. The region between the rivers Ganga and Yamuna is called Magadh country (a kingdom of the ancient India corresponding to present states of U.P. and Bihar)
Dear arjun Bhai.
Can you please quote any reference(other than Advance Party teaching ) that magadh country is the territory between ganga and jamuna. Also is it the behad ka magadh desh which Shiva is talking about or some geographical location!!! (just as Bharat is chaitanya soul which is described and not the country Bharat)
Father is also telling that now it is called a hell, Magadh country. If we look at the present circumstances then the states of U.P. and Bihar in India are considered to be among the most backward states, which are also considered to be the worst states from the point of view of law and order.
Is the whole world hell or only magadh desh is hell ???
If taken in behad ka sense then the chaitanya magadh desh ie body of Baba dixit and his followers(Advance Party) are now in hell (from knowledge point of view) as they are propagating the most corrupted and vicious advance knowledge during the night of brahma of this behad ka drama.[Kaliyugi shooting ke anth mein chaitanya Bharat 100% brashtachari aur 100% vicious banta hai]
shivsena

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Re: Points for churning

Post by nivi » 08 Apr 2009

shivsena wrote:
Is the whole world hell or only magadh desh is hell ???
If taken in behad ka sense then the chaitanya magadh desh ie body of Baba dixit and his followers(Advance Party) are now in hell (from knowledge point of view) as they are propagating the most corrupted and vicious Advanced Knowledge during the night of Brahma of this behad ka drama.
Wow, some real harsh statement.!! , and a sweeping generalization for all PBK's don't you think.. Do all pbk's become Baba's "followers" or some become his "children"?? So lets say even if it is " brahma ki raat" do we get to exit this life and go somewhere else in space..Life still goes on.. and we cont. to reap what we have sown..

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Re: Points for churning

Post by shivsena » 08 Apr 2009

nivi_k wrote: Wow, some real harsh statment.!! , and a sweeping generalization for all PBK's don't you think.. Do all PBK's become Baba's "followers" or some become his "children"?? So lets say even if it is " Brahma ki raat" do we get to exit this life and go somewhere else in space..Life still goes on.. and we cont. to reap what we have sown..
Dear nivi behan.

I agree that sometimes my feelings get the better of me and i do utter some harsh statements about Advance Party and advance knowledge; but it is more out of frustration and not pleasure of pulling down somebody; and if you see closely, then i am just interpreting very openly what Shiva is saying in Murlis very subtlely, about what is happening in brahma ki raat in this behad ka drama. When PBKs apply the same words to the bk family and the outside world, then it does not appear harsh to them, but when it is applied to them, then they start feeling it very deeply.

Why am i so against advance knowledge is the fact, that i have wasted precious 10-12 years thinking it was sacchi Gita, before i found out that advance knowledge is jhooti Gita, and so now i wish that my brothers who are still ignorant about this fact and trapped in Ravan ki jail, should wake up and start their own study of Murlis/Vanis and start applying Murli points to behad ka drama only and not just listen blindly to cds and cassettes lectures and indulge in meaningless conversations of Bhakti marg.

BTW, when i say that all PBKs are in hell it includes me also, the only difference being that i am aware of this fact, while most of the PBKs are not.
shivsena.

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 09 Apr 2009

shivsena wrote:I agree that sometimes my feelings get the better of me and i do utter some harsh statements about Advance Party and Advanced Knowledge; but it is more out of frustration and not pleasure of pulling down somebody;
Sometimes?????? :prize: I think it should have been 'always' :laugh:

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 09 Apr 2009

Latest Mu.Pt.102 (Chariot of Shiv)

"Tumko Murli kaun sunaatey hain? ShivBaba. Paramdham say aatey hain, puraani duniya, puraaney sharir mein. Koi ko nishchay ho jaaye toh fir Baap say milney kay sivaay rah na sakein. Kahein, pehley behad kay baap ko toh milein, thahar nahi sakengey. Kahengey, behad ka baap jo swarg ka maalik banaatey hain, unkay paas hamko fauran lay chalo. Dekhein toh sahee. ShivBaba ka rath kaun Silver Age hai. Voh log bhi ghodey ko shringaartey hain. Patka nishaani rakhtey hain. Vah rath tha Muhammad ka, jisnay dharma sthaapan kiya. Bhaaratvaasi fir bail ko tilak dey, mandir may rakhtey hain. Samajhtey hain, is par Shiv ki savaari hui. Ab bail par toh na Shiv kee, na Shankar kee savaari hai. Kuch bhi samajhtey nahee. Shiv niraakaar hai, vah kaisey savaari karengey. Taangein chaahiye jo bail par baith sakein. Yah hai andhashradhha." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 05.05.06, pg 4)

“Who narrates the Murli to you? ShivBaba. He comes from the Soul World to the old world, in an old body. If anyone develops the faith, then he cannot remain without meeting Father. He would say, first I should meet the unlimited Father. He would not be able to stay back. He would say – Take me immediately to the unlimited Father who makes us the master of heaven. Let me see, which the Chariot of ShivBaba is. Those people also decorate the horse. A patka (a decorative piece of cloth) is placed as a sign. That Chariot was a Chariot of Mohammad, who established the religion. The Indians then apply tilak (a vermillion mark) on the (idol of) bull and place it in the temple. They feel that Shiv rode on it. Well, neither Shiv nor Shankar rides on a bull. They do not understand anything. Shiv is incorporeal. How can He ride (on a bull)? He needs legs to sit on a bull. This is a blind faith.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 05.05.06, pg.4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that ‘If anyone develops the faith, then he cannot remain without meeting Father.’ So, where is the corporeal Chariot of the unlimited Father Shiv in the Confluence Age now, whom one can meet as soon as one develops a faith on him? The part that is played through the body of Gulzar Dadiji at Mt. Abu is played only from November to March for 10-12 days. Even in that programme, only invited people can go, not everyone. Hence, if anyone develops faith on the corporeal role of the unlimited Father, then where can he meet Him?

- Even in the path of worship bull is depicted as the vehicle of Shiv Shankar Bholeynath, which is a reminder of the corporeal male body-like Chariot of Shiv in the Confluence Age. Gulzar Dadiji is a pure virgin. So how can she be called a bull?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by shivsena » 09 Apr 2009

arjun wrote: Sometimes?????? :prize: I think it should have been 'always' :laugh:
Dear arjun Bhai.
If it makes you happy then i can say ''most of the times'' instead of ''always", but the fact still remains that "advance knowledge is jhooti Gita" responsible for the downfall of PBKs.

I just read a Murli point dated 29-11-2000 which says, "tum bacchon ko vichar sagaar manthan kar points nikal samjana padta hai, aur nidar bhi banana hai". [ meaning: "you children(potential 108) have to churn the Murli points and make them(PBKs) understand and also become fearless"]

The above Murli point clearly says, that the potential 108 children have to churn on Murli points and make the PBKs understand that the whole advance knowledge is jhooti Gita and they have to be fearless in doing so. [ 108 ko bk-pbk duniya ki lok-laz ki parvah nahin karni hai ]

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Re: Points for churning

Post by nivi » 09 Apr 2009

shivsena wrote:
I just read a Murli point dated 29-11-2000 which says, "tum bacchon ko vichar sagaar manthan kar points nikal samjana padta hai, aur nidar bhi banana hai". [ meaning: "you children(potential 108) have to churn the Murli points and make them(PBKs) understand and also become fearless"]
There are 2 types of churning mentioned in the Murlis.
1)"manan-chinthan manthan"- churn on what is the "mind" (Which we hear often in the Murli's)
2) "vichar saagar manthan"- churning on the "ocean of knowledge"(heard less often in the Murli's)

What's the reason we hear the first method of churning so often and not the second one?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by shivsena » 10 Apr 2009

nivi_k wrote: Wow, some real harsh statement.!! , and a sweeping generalization for all PBK's don't you think.. Do all PBK's become Baba's "followers" or some become his "children"?? So lets say even if it is " Brahma ki raat" do we get to exit this life and go somewhere else in space..Life still goes on.. and we cont. to reap what we have sown..
Dear nivi behan.

Just read a Murli 8-8-05 which says "Yeh duniya bahut gandi hai; duniya ke sang ko kahenge ku-sang; Ek sat ka sang hi paar karta hai, baaki sab dubote hain. Yeh bahut gandi duniya hai, corruption hai."
[meaning: The world(bk-pbk) is very dirty; Worldly(bk-pbk) companionship is very bad; Only truth(personified Ramshivbaba) can deliver you from evil, everyone else(dehdhari-guru) will drown you; this(bk-pbk) is a very dirty corrupted world."]

The above Murli point when applied to behad ka drama clearly talks about the dirty corrupted world of BKs and PBKs where there is only Didi-Dadi ki mat or Krishna ki mat, both of which are drowning the bk-pbk world. Only when real sat ka sang(Ramshivbaba) comes in future that we all will be delivered from the evil bk-pbk world numberwise.

When Murli says harsh words, they do not appear harsh.[truth is very bitter]

shivsena.

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Re: Points for churning

Post by nivi » 10 Apr 2009

The above statment you mentioned brother is nothing new!!!! We've been hearing it for 70+ years, now we know it autually applies to us not the outside world..

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Re: Points for churning

Post by shivsena » 10 Apr 2009

nivi_k wrote:The above statment you mentioned Brother is nothing new!!!! We've been hearing it for 70+ years, now we know it autually applies to us not the outside world..

Sakar Murlis started from 1965, so how do you know it for last 70 years ???

Also how many BKs and PBKs know and accept that the above Murli point applies to the bk-pbk world ????....and since you now know that the bk-pbk world is a dirty corrupted world, then what are you doing to wake up your brothers to this fact.

shivsena.

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Re: Points for churning

Post by nivi » 10 Apr 2009

Sakar Murli, 1965 ??

So whatever was spoken by shiv baba from the beg. of Yagya(since 1930's) is not Murli's??
You asked what am i doing to wake up by brothers?
OK, unlike you i am not an ex-pbk..Maybe your Bhakti got over and you found GOD and became 100% nirsankalpi, nirakri, nirvikari, and apne seat par set ho gay hai.. But for most of us our subtle Bhakti continues since we are still "purusharthi's".. Just because i cannot stay in atmic stage, cannot understand the deeper, finer points of Murli's, fully comprehend the part of Baap, follow dharna's does not mean i have lost all faith, and Nishcay in Baap. The weakness is in my part..I have not done all that i need to do to be where i would like to be. If we did not pay attention in class, do our homework how can we blame someone else for our current stage. If i am still asleep how can i wake up my brothers..

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Re: Points for churning

Post by shivsena » 12 Apr 2009

nivi_k wrote:Sakar Murli, 1965 ??
So whatever was spoken by Shiv Baba from the beg. of Yagya(since 1930's) is not Murli's??
Sakar Murlis from july 1965 are available in continuity for everyone to read; before 1965 there are hardly any Murlis which are recorded and circulated in the bk or pbk family. Between 1947--1965 a couple of Murlis does not provide enough proof that Shiva spoke to BKs during that period. There is no evidence at all that Shiva spoke between 1937 to 1947 in om-mandli.

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 28 Apr 2009

Mu. Pt. No. 103 (no need for flowers or titles)

"Bachhey kahtey hain – Baba ko haar pahnaaen. Parantu inko haar pahnaaengey toh tumhaara buddhiyog ismay chalaa jaayega. ShivBaba kahtey hain haar kee darkaar nahee hai. Tum hee poojya bantey ho. Pujaari bhi tum bantey ho. Aapey hee poojya aapey hee pujaari. Toh apney hee chitra kee pooja karney lagtey hain. Baba kahtey hain mai toh na poojya banta hoon, na fool aadi kee darkaar hai. Mai kyon yah pahnoon! Isliye kabhi fool mala aadi letey nahin hain. Tum poojya bantey ho fir jitnaa chaahiye utnaa fool pahan-na. Mai toh tum bachhon ka most beloved obedient Father bhi hoon, teacher bhi hoon, servant bhi hoon. Badey-badey royal aadmi jab neechey sahee daaltey hain toh likhtey hain Minto, Curzon, aadi.....Apney ko Lord kabhi nahee likhengey. Yahaan toh Shri Lakshmi Narayan, Shri falaana. Ekdam Shri akshar daal detey hain.....Baba kahtey hain, na mai pujaari hoon, na poojya banta hoon. Isliye mai na haar pahanta hoon, na pahnaaney padtey hain. Fir ham kyon foolon ko sweekaar karein. Tum bhi sweekar nahee kar saktey ho. Kaaydey anusaar un devataaon ka hak hai, unki aatma aur sharir pavitra hain. Vahee hakdaar hain foolon kay. Vahaan swarg may toh hain hee khushbhoodaar fool. Fool hotey hee hain khushbhoo kay liye. Pahan-ney kay liye bhi hotay hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 28.06.06, pg 2&3)

“Children say – Let us garland Baba. But if you garland him (i.e. the corporeal medium), then your connection of the intellect will be directed towards him. ShivBaba says there is no need for garlands. You only become worship worthy. It is you only who become worshippers also. You were only worship worthy and you have only become worshippers. So they start worshipping their own pictures. Baba says – Neither do I become worship worthy, nor do I require flowers etc. Why should I adorn it (i.e. flowers)? That is why I never accept flowers, garlands etc. You become worship worthy; then you may adorn as many flowers as you wish. I am the most beloved obedient Father also, teacher also, and servant also of you children. When big royal persons sign below, they write Minto, Curzon, etc.... They never write their name as Lord. Here they write Shri Lakshmi-Narayan, Shri so and so. They immediately add Shri before their names.... Baba says – neither am I a worshipper nor do I become worship worthy. That is why neither do I wear garlands, nor do others have to adorn me with garlands. Then why should we accept flowers? You too cannot accept. As per rules, it is the right of those deities. Their soul and body is pure. They alone are entitled to accept flowers. There, in the heaven there are fragrant flowers only. Flowers are meant for fragrance only. They are meant for adorning also.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 28.06.06, pg.2&3 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that neither does He accept flowers Himself nor can you children accept flowers. But it has been seen that throughout the world, whenever BKs organize any small or big public programme, they spend a big amount on flowers, garlands etc. They don’t just felicitate the invited guests with flowers and garlands, but also accept it themselves. Is it correct do so in view of the Shrimat given in the above Murli?

- Baba is telling that he is the most beloved obedient Father, teacher, servant of the children. And He is also telling that big personalities like Minto, Curzon never used to prefix ‘Lord’ to their names while putting their signatures. But Baba’s children have been conferring titles like Chief Administrator, Joint Administrator, Director, Zonal Incharge, etc upon themselves. Is it not against the above version of Murli?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 10 May 2009

Mu. Pt. No. 104 (one cannot know when Shiv enters)

"Toh Baap samjhaatey hain ki inka toh apnaa naam hai, mera sharir ka koi naam nahee hai, na mai punarjanm may aata hoon. Mai inmay pravesh kartaa hoon, inko bhi maaloom nahee padta hai. Koi tithi taareekh nahee.....Mai aata hoon paavan duniya arthaat din banaaney. Yah bhi nahee jaantey ki Baba nay kab pravesh kiya. Haan, vinaash saakshaatkaar kiya. Bahut dhyaan may jaatey thay, vah koi tithi taareekh vela nahee nikaal saktey. Krishna ko bhi poojtey hain, unka raatri ko janma dikhaatey hain. Kis samay, kitney minute aadi saara nikaaltey hain. Baap kahtey hain - mai toh hoon hee niraakaar. Jaisey aur manushya janma letey hain, vaisey mera janma thodey hee hota hai. Mera toh divya aloukik janma hai. Mai inmay pravesh karta hoon fir chalaa jaata hoon. Bail par saara din savaari thodey hee kartey hain. Mujhey jis samay bachhey Yaad kartey hain, mai haazir hoon." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 13.06.06, pg 3)

“So the Father explains that he (i.e. Brahma) has his own name, I do not have a name based on the body, neither do I take rebirth. I enter into him; even he does not come to know of it. There is no date (of entry of Shiv into Brahma)....I come to create a pure world, i.e. day. Even he does not know when Baba entered (into him). Yes, he had visions of destruction. He used to go into trance a lot; for that no date or time can be calculated. Krishna is also worshipped; he is shown to have taken birth at night. At what time, at which minute, etc. everything is calculated. Father says - I am incorporeal. I do not take birth just as other human beings take birth. My birth is divine, alokik. I enter into him and then depart. Does anyone ride on the bull throughout the day? Whenever children remember me, I am present.”(Revised Sakar Murli dated 13.06.06, pg.3 published by BKs)

- When Baba Himself is telling that “I enter into him; even he does not come to know of it. There is no date (of entry of Shiv into Brahma)”, then how can the BKs say with a guarantee that Shiv entered into Dada Lekhraj when he suddenly got up from one of the spiritual gatherings of his lokik guru and had divine visions of Vishnu in his room?
- Baba is telling that we cannot calculate the date or time of His entry into the corporeal medium. Date or time of birth can be calculated only for human beings, like the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj Brahma). But in case of Gulzar Dadi, the date and time of entry of BapDada is calculated many months in advance. So, who is entering into her and whose entry are they fixing many months in advance - is it the Supreme Father Shiv or the soul of Krishna?

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