Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 19 Jan 2010

Disc.CD No.452, dated 25.11.07 at Tamaspura, Jhajjar (Haryana)
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 12.52-18.25
Student: Baba, this sister was asking about the meaning of BapDada, i.e. ‘Mother and Father, BapDada’s....for sweet, long lost and now found children’....day before yesterday, when we went to Revadi (a place in Haryana), this sister was asking me about its meaning. I said, I will tell you (the meaning); otherwise we will ask Baba when He comes here.

Baba: The reason for mentioning the word ‘BapDada’ in the Murlis is, Bap refers to the Supreme Soul Shiv. He is just the Father of souls. And if that Father of souls remains just as a point, then nobody will be able to understand. Everybody understands God the Father when He enters in the Father of the human world. Then the entire world comes to know this is God the Father. So, He is the form of the Father. The corporeal form; the combination of the incorporeal and the corporeal one, the Father. The Father of the human world and the Father of souls is in the same form.

Then Dada…; in the lokik world, the elder brother is called Dada. So, all the leaves of the human world; how many leaves are there? 500-700 crore (5-7 billion). Among those 500-700 crore leaves, who is the biggest, first leaf? The soul of Krishna. So, he happens to be Dada. First is the Father. The combination of the incorporeal and the corporeal is the Father. And his first child in the world is Dada. The Dada (elder brother) of the entire world. How big Dada? He is such a big Dada that he sits as God the Father; He sits as the God of the Gita.

The next point is why is the word BapDada used in the Avyakt Vanis narrated through Gulzar Dadi? Either the word ‘Dada’ or the word ‘Bap’ should be used. So, the reason for it is , it has been said in the Murli , the more you children remember Me, the more I am with you. What? To what extent am I with you? The more you remember Me, the more I am with you. So, among the children who remember (Me) which child remembers the most? It is the child Krishna. When he enters ... when that soul (of Brahma) enters in Gulzar Dadi, does he appear to be the epitome of remembrance or not? So, the facial expressions change completely in remembrance. So, it is as if the Father Shiv is with that child Krishna, i.e. He is with Dada. But it is not that Shiv enters in Brahma. No, the soul of Brahma remains in remembrance continuously; this is why the word BapDada is used. But it is not that Father Shiv also enters in Gulzar Dadi. If the Father Shiv enters, , just as when Shiv used to enter in Brahma, whatever versions of Shiv used to emerge from the mouth of Brahma, did Brahma Baba used to hear it or not? When ShivBaba, Shiv used to enter in Brahma, who used to listen first of all? Brahma’s ears used to listen. Now when he (Brahma Baba) enters in Gulzar Dadi, does she listen? She doesn’t. What does it prove? It proves that the Supreme Soul Shiv does not enter.

There is a world of difference between the entry of the Supreme Soul Shiv (in a human being) and the entry of the human souls (in other human beings). The Supreme Soul Shiv does not carry the weight of the subtle body at all. He does not have a physical body at all. He is a weightless point. Nobody comes to know when He comes and when He departs. When He used to enter in Brahma’s body, nobody, not even Brahma used to know of it. So, that is about the entry of the Supreme Soul and when a human soul enters, the body of the person in whom it enters with a subtle body, becomes heavy and the soul is subdued. So, the soul of Gulzar Dadi is subdued. So, only the soul of Brahma enters in Gulzar Dadi. Shiv’s soul does not enter. As regards the word BapDada, it is used because Brahma’s soul especially remembers the Father.


Time: 19.30-21.08
Student: Baba, it has been said in Murli, we have to become swadarshan chakradhari (one who holds the discus of self- realization). So, how should we rotate the swadarshan chakra when we don’t even know of our 84 births?

Baba: Oh! The Golden Age, the Silver Age, the Copper Age, the Iron Age, the Confluence Age . This is the swadarshan chakra.
Student: Baba, this is the basic one.
Baba: It is the basic one. Well, for the advance one, recognize the Father first. When you have the firm introduction of the Father, you will also have the introduction to your form, (you will know:) whether I am a soul of the Suryavanshi (of the Sun dynasty) group or of the Chandravanshi (of the Moon dynasty) group?
Student: Baba, when will this happen?
Baba: When will this happen? Those who are supposed to understand understand even now. ( Someone said: those sitting in front of the Father are Suryavanshis.) Yes, will the Suryavanshis be revealed first or will the Chandravanshis, Islamvanshis (of the Islam dynasty), Baudhivanshis (of the Buddhist dynasty) be revealed first? Who will recognize their form first? (Everyone said – The Suryavanshis.) Does it mean you are not Suryavanshis? You are still asking. Arey, a child belonging to a particular group should have the realization in his soul, shouldn’t he? What? That I am a child belonging to this clan. Is it anything to be asked? My Father is Sun (Surya), Suryavanshi, so I, His child, am also a Suryavanshi. Nobody can mislead me (saying:) I am your Father. If someone misleads me, then I belong to that very dynasty.

Time: 53.45-56.06
Student: Baba, what is the difference between Prajapita and Shankar?

Baba: Shan…ka….r. Shankar means mix. There is the soul of Ram .There is also the soul of Krishna and there is the soul of Shiv as well; a mixture of all the three souls. For example it is said , varna sankar (hybrid class). What is the meaning of varna sankar? If the mother belongs to a different caste and the Father belongs to a different caste; then the child (born to them) is called a crossbreed child. For example, the anglo-Indian. If the Father is a Hindu and the mother is a Britisher, then the child (born ) is an Anglo-Indian child. Similarly, here it is Shankar. Shankar does not mean just Prajapita. There is Prajapita as well as there is Prajamata (the Mother of the World) and there is Shiv as well. So, it is a mixture of all the three of them.
Student: Should we now consider Baba to be Prajapita or Shankar?
Baba: Whenever a soul plays whatever kind of part, it receives a name based on that action, based on that part. All the names that are mentioned in the scriptures are based on what? The names are based on the tasks performed. What is the task of Prajapita? Is Prajapita sinful or pure? (Someone said – He is pure.) Prajapita is sinful. Until the sinful world exists, Prajapita will also remain in this world. And is Shankar sinful or pure? (Someone said – Pure.) Why is he pure? It is because he remains in the highest stage of thinking and churning. That is why he is pure; he is an angel (farishta). He does not have any relationship (rishta) with the people of the world living on the floor (farsh) at that time. This is why he is Shankar. And Shiv is in the form of a point , incorporeal, viceless, egoless, that is all. He will be called Shiv. The body is the same, but what about the part? The parts are three.

Time: 56.10-58.30
Student: Baba, in the basic party as well as the Advance Party, the number of mothers and virgins is more, and the brothers are less in number. Brothers are less. So, this is unbalance. Why is it so?

Baba: So, the balance will be achieved in the future. When the Father comes, He changes women into men and men into women. Was Brahma a male or female? He was a male. What did He make him into? (Someone said – He made him a female.) And is Jagdamba a female or a male? She has a female body, but she is a bead of the rosary of Rudra (Rudramala). In terms of behavior, nature and sanskars, does she have more controlling power or does she have the power to be controlled (by others)? She has the power to control. This is why something will happen in the end so that,.... what will Jagdamba become? Will she become a king or a queen? She will become a king. For example, even today, it is seen in the world that many men become women and many women become men. The hormones change.
Student: But Baba, it has been said for Jagdamba that she will have to leave the body.
Baba: Yes, so what? Everyone, i.e. those belonging to the other religious dynasties will have to leave the bodies. Whether they are the Chandravanshis, Islamvanshis or Bauddhivanshis. Jagdamba will be called a seed of which religion?
Student: It is about the male and female sanskars.
Baba: No, to which dynasty does she belong? To which dynasty does Jagdamba belong? Chandravansh (the moon dynasty). Those who belong to the Moon dynasty are not Suryavanshis. They will have to leave the body. If they are Chandravanshis like Radha, who surrender their ego….. (Student: from a woman to Lakshmi.) Yes, so, they will remain; all the remaining souls will have to leave their bodies.....(concluded)
......................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 20 Jan 2010

वार्तालाप नं.464, पोखरा, नेपाल, दिनांक 14.12.07
भाग-१

समयः 00.45-03.30
जिज्ञासुः बाबा आप तो सर्वशक्तिवान हैं ना बाबा।

बाबा: आप तो सर्वशक्तिवान है बाबा तो? बाबा सर्वशक्तिवान है। आप किसे कह रहे हैँ?
जिज्ञासु: आपको।
बाबा: नहीं हम कहाँ से सर्वशक्तिवान है? हमे ठंडी लग रही है। सर्वशक्तिवान कहाँ है?
जिज्ञासु: आप हमारी बनी-बनाई ड्रामा में कुछ परिवर्तन कर देना ये हमारी इच्छा है।
बाबा: बनी बनाई ड्रामा में परिवर्तन करने के लिये ही तो बाबा आया हुआ है। ज्ञान सुना रहा है। आपको ज्ञान मिल रहा है ना? किस लिये मिल रहा है? आपकी जो बिग़डी हुई है, अभी जो बिगड़ी हुई बात है इस दुनिया में दु:ख मिल रहा है वो सुधर जाए । तो अगर सुधर जायेगी, सुधर जायेगी तो सर्वशक्तिवान के ज्ञान ने ही सुधारी ना या किसी दुसरे ने सुधारी?
जिज्ञासु: ड्रामा में नून्ध था।
बाबा: क्या नून्ध था? क्‍या आपको मालूम है? पिछले जन्म में आपके ड्रामा में क्या नून्ध था...
जिज्ञासु: ....मेरे ड्रामा में ये नून्ध था । ज्ञान के आधार से मैं ये बता सकता हूँ कि... बाबा: बाबा ने कहा कि आप अच्छे संकल्प करो। ब्रह्मा के संकल्पों से सृष्टि रची गई; नई दुनिया रची गई ना? तो आप भी अच्छे से अच्छे, नए से नए, बढिया से बढिया संकल्प करो तो आपकी भी दुनिया कैसी बन जायेगी? जन्म-जन्मांतर की अच्छी दुनिया बन जायेगी।
जिज्ञासु: ... यदि आप ड्रामा के आधीन में है तो...
बाबा: कर दिया ना। बाप आते हैं, ज्ञान सुनाते हैं ज्ञान सुना के बता दिया तुम ऐसा पुरुषार्थ करोगे तो ऐसे बनोगे। पुरुषार्थ नहीं करोगे तो नहीं बनोगे। तो अपना आत्मा का कल्याण, अपना आत्मा जो है अपने लिये शत्रु और मित्र खुद है या कोई दूसरा है?
जिज्ञासु: ... ड्रामा के आधीन में बाप भी है।
बाबा: बाप ड्रामा के आधीन में इसलिये है कि वो आकरके सिर्फ ज्ञान सुना सकता है। आप का पुरुषार्थ नहीं कर सकता। ज्ञान सुना करके। आपको अपने आप चेंज करना है। ये ज्ञान सिवाय परमपिता परमात्मा के और कोई नहीं सुना सकता है। इसलिये परमात्मा बाप सर्वशक्तिवान कहा जाता है।
जिज्ञासु: बाप भी ड्रामा के आधीन में हैं। बाबा: बाप ड्रामा के आधीन में इसलिये हैं कि उसे एक्युरेट टाईम पर आना है। वो कलियुग में नहीं आ सकता, द्वापर में नहीं आ सकता, सतयुग में नहीं आ सकता, त्रेता में नहीं आ सकता। उसका ड्रामा में पार्ट नून्धा हुआ है । जब ये सृष्टि रूपी मकान पुराना होगा, जब इस सृष्टि में सब दु:खी अनुभव करे तन से, मन से, धन से तब मेरे को आना है और ये तो ठीक बात है।

समयः 03.31-04.30
जिज्ञासुः आप राम की आत्मा है ना। आप राम की आत्मा है। कोई लक्ष्मण होगा।

बाबा: नहीं, हम तो राम की आत्मा नहीं है। हमे तो नहीं पता लग रहा कि हम राम की आत्मा हैं, कृष्ण की आत्मा हैं, कौनसी आत्मा हैं। हाँ, हर आत्मा पुरुषार्थी है जानने का। जिज्ञासु: कोई लक्ष्मण का होगा।
बाबा: कोई लक्ष्मण का होगा।
जिज्ञासु: कोई रावण का भी होगा।
बाबा: हाँ रावण का, एक थोडे ही है रावण के तो 10 सिर है।
जिज्ञासु: मैं किसकी आत्मा हूँ?
बाबा: जो जिसका पार्ट बजाने वाली आत्मा होगी उसको अपने आप अपने पार्ट का पता चलेगा। कोई दूसरे को पता नहीं चलेगा। अपने अन्दर के संकल्पों की बात अपने अन्दर के वायब्रेशन की बात हम ज्यादा समझेंगे, कोई दूसरा ज्यादा समझेगा? कौन समझेगा? तो अपनेआप अपने पार्ट की प्रत्यक्षता होगी। कोई दूसरा हमारा पार्ट क्लीयर नहीं कर सकता या भगवान बाप आ करके 500 करोड का पार्ट क्लीयर करे ये नहीं हो सकता।

समयः 04.31-05.45
जिज्ञासुः आप, शिवबाबा को गोद में लेके खेल सकते हैं जैसे गुडिया है। जो शिवबाबा का रोल है ना, सर्वसाधारण तन में आते हैं। जो बात बोलते हैं ना, जो गुण हमें दिखाई देते हैं, ऐसा लगता है कि शिवबाबा है या शिवबाबा का हम समझे थे बहुत बड़ा है या गोद में लेके खेलें जैसे गुडिया है। ये बात मुझे बहुत संशय में डाला है।

बाबा: ये तो अपनी भावना के उपर है। अव्यक्त वाणी में बोला है- तुमको ऐसा खिलौना मिला है जो न कब टूटेगा न फूटेगा और न कोई उसके लिये पैसा देना पडे़गा। मुफ्त का खिलौना मिला है जिसको जिस रूप में जब चाहो तब अनुभव कर सकते हो। क्या? भाई के रूप में अनुभव करना चहो भाई के रूप में अनुभव कर सकते हो। बच्चे के रूप में अनुभव करना चाहो बच्चे के रूप में अनुभव कर सकते हो। बाप के रूप में अनुभव करना चाहो बाप के रूप में अनुभव कर सकते हो। टीचर के रूप में अनुभव करना चाहो टीचर के रूप में अनुभव कर सकते हो। ये तुम्हारे उपर है।

Disc.CD No.464, dated 14.12.07 at Pokhra, Nepal
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 00.45-03.30
Student: Baba, you are Almighty (sarvashaktivan), aren’t you?

Baba: Baba, you are Almighty? Baba is Almighty. To whom are you saying ‘you’?
Student: I am telling you.
Baba: No, how am I Almighty? I am feeling cold. How am I Almighty?Student: I wish that you make some change in my pre-determined drama.
Baba: Baba has come only to make changes in the pre-determined drama. He is narrating the knowledge. You are receiving the knowledge, aren’t you? Why are you receiving it? [So that] whatever is not good in your life, whatever is not good at present…; you are receiving sorrow in this world ... that should improve. So, if it improves, then, only the knowledge of the Almighty improved it or did anyone else improve it?
Student: It was fixed in the drama.
Baba: Do you know what was fixed? What was fixed in your drama in the past birth....
Student:.....this was fixed in my drama. I can tell this on the basis of knowledge that....
Baba: Baba has said, create good thoughts. The world was created through Brahma’s thoughts; a new world was created, wasn’t it? So, you too create the best, the newest, the best thoughts; then how will your world also become? It will become a good world for many births.
Student:.....if you are bound by the drama...
Baba: It has been done, hasn’t it? The Father comes, He narrates knowledge; as part of the knowledge He said, if you do purusharth (special effort for the soul) in this way, you will become like this. If you do not make special effort for the soul, you will not become. So, benefit of your own soul…; is your soul an enemy or a friend for itself or is there anyone else?
Student:... the Father is also bound by the drama?
Baba: The Father is bound by the drama because He can only narrate knowledge when He comes. He cannot do purusharth for you. He narrates the knowledge; you have to change it yourself. Nobody except the Supreme Father Supreme Soul can narrate this knowledge. This is why the Supreme Soul Father is called Almighty.
Student: The Father is also bound by the drama?
Baba: The Father is bound by the drama because He has to come at an accurate time. He cannot come in the Iron Age; He cannot come in the Copper Age; He cannot come in the Golden Age, He cannot come in the Silver Age. His part is fixed in the drama. When this house-like world becomes old, when everyone starts experiencing sorrow in this world through the body, through the mind, through the wealth, then ‘I have to come’; and it is indeed correct.

Time: 03.31-04.30
Student: You are the soul of Ram, aren’t you? You are the soul of Ram. Someone must be Lakshman.

Baba; No, I am not the soul of Ram. I am unable to know whether I am the soul of Ram or the soul of Krishna, or which soul I am. Yes, every soul is a maker of special effort for the soul (purusharthi) to know.
Student: There must be someone playing the part of Lakshman.
Baba: There must be someone playing the part of Lakshman
Student: There must be someone playing the role of Ravan, too.
Baba: Yes, there is not one [person playing] Ravan’s part but Ravan has ten heads.
Student: Which soul am I?
Baba: Whichever part a soul has to play; it will come to know of its part automatically. No other person will come to know of it. Will we understand our own thoughts, our internal vibrations more, or will anyone else understand it more? Who will understand? So, our part will be revealed automatically. No one else can make our part clear (i.e. reveal it) and it cannot be possible that God the Father comes and clarifies the part of all the 500 crore (5 billion) (souls).

Time: 04.31-05.45
Student: You can take ShivBaba in your lap and play with Him like a doll. ShivBaba’s role is that He comes in an ordinary body, does He not? Whatever He speaks…., doesn’t He? Whatever virtues are visible to us, it appears as if it is ShivBaba or I had thought that ShivBaba is very big or that I can take Him in my lap and play like a doll. This point has put me in a lot of confusion.

Baba: This depends on our feelings. It has been said in an Avyakt Vani: you have not found such a toy which will never break nor will you have to pay for it. You have found a toy, free of cost, whom you can experience in whichever form and at whatever time you want. What? If you wish to experience Him in the form of a brother, you can experience Him in the form of a brother. If you wish to experience Him in the form of a child, you can experience Him in the form of a child. If you wish to experience Him in the form of a Father, you can experience Him in the form of a Father. If you want to experience Him in the form of a teacher, you can experience in the form of a teacher. It depends on you.........(to be continued)
....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 21 Jan 2010

वार्तालाप नं.464, पोखरा, नेपाल, दिनांक 14.12.07
भाग-२


समयः 20.05-21.21
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जब संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण बैठेंगे गद्दी पे...

बाबा: गद्दी पे बैठते हैं? चित्र में कहीं संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण को गद्दी पे बैठे हुए दिखाया गया है?
जिज्ञासु: राम दरबार में बैठ गये ना राम-सीता।
बाबा: राम-सीता, वो तो त्रेता युग की बात है।
जिज्ञासु: जब उनको गद्दी मिलेगा.....
बाबा: वो त्रेता में मिलती है गद्दी।
जिज्ञासु: नहीं संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण तो आयेंगे न?
बाबा: संगमयुगी लक्ष्मी-नारायण गद्दी नहीं लेते हैं। जैसे बाप है तो बाप का बच्चा भी वैसा ही होता है। बाप कैसा है? ओबिडियेंट सर्वेंट बन के ही आया है सारी सृष्टि का। तो बाप का बच्चा भी जो असली होगा वो कैसा रहेगा? अंत तक सर्वेंट बनके रहेगा। लेकिन दुनिया उसको भले महाराजा माने। जैसे महाभारत में दुर्योधन को नहीं चाहते थे कि ये युवराज और राजा बने लेकिन युधिष्ठिर को? युधिष्ठिर को सभी चाहते थे लेकिन युधिष्ठिर का सेवा भाव था और दुर्योधन का सेवा भाव नहीं था। ऐसे ही है।
जिज्ञासु: नहीं जो सारी जो इतने करोड़ की जो दुनिया है जब ये प्रत्यक्ष होंगे तो, आदि देव और आदि देवी, तो क्या उस समय सारी दुनिया एक बार जरूर देखेगी?
बाबा: सारी दुनिया एडम-ईव को मानेगी।
जिज्ञासु: मानेगी?
बाबा: मानेगी और दिल से मानेगी।
जिज्ञासु: देख नहीं पायेगी?
बाबा: भले देख न पाये। गांधीजी को तुमने नहीं देखा तो क्या गांधीजी तुम्हारे दिल में नहीं बसे हुए हैं?
जिज्ञासु: हाँ।
बाबा: फिर?
जिज्ञासु: तो दिल में बैठेंगे?
बाबा: हाँजी।

समयः 23.00 – 27.26
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, आत्मा और प्राण एक ही है....या दोनों अलग-अलग चीज़ है बाबा?

बाबा: जब आत्मा निकल जाती है तो श्वास का आना-जाना बन्द हो जाता है। इसका मतलब ये हुआ कि आत्मा भी एक शक्ति है। अन्दर है शरीर में तो शरीर कार्य करेगा। बाहर हो गई, शरीर निर्जीव हो जाता है।
जिज्ञासु: वनस्पति में भी आत्मा है?
बाबा: वो भी, उसमें भी आत्मा है लेकिन जड़त्वमई आत्मा। क्या? वनस्पति एक स्थान पर जहाँ उगेगी बस वहीं पे लहराती रहेगी। उससे अलग हो करके कार्य नहीं करेगी।

जिज्ञासु: बाबा जो अंतर्मन है ना वो चेतन-अचेतन मन है। अचेतन मन जो हमारा ध्यान अवस्था में रहते हैं ...
बाबा: सुषुप्‍तावस्था में अचेतन मन काम करता है।
जिज्ञासु: ....अचेतन मन सुप्रीम सोल से जुडा़ हुआ है?
बाबा: अचेतन सुप्रीम सोल से जुडा़ हुआ हो, हमेशा जुडा़ हुआ हो तो उसे आने की दरकार क्या है? वो आता ही इसलिये है कि वो हमारे मन को अपनी बुद्धि से जोड़ना चहता है। जो आने वाला है, जो भगवान है वो मन वाला है या अमन है?
जिज्ञासु: बाहर से जो देखने वाला कैसा भी हो, अंदर से तो...
बाबा: बाहर से... उसका मन चलता है? ब्रह्मा का मन चलता है? जिसमें प्रवेश करता है उसका मन चलता है या भगवान का मन चलायमान है?
जिज्ञासु: ब्रह्मा का मन चलायमान है।
बाबा: ब्रह्मा का मन चलता है शरीरधारी का मन चलता है। जिसको शरीर ही नहीं है उसका मन अमन है। उसे मन चलाने की दरकार है ही नहीं। सोचने-विचारने की दरकार है ही नहीं। वो तो असोचता है। उसे संकल्प-विकल्प करने की दरकार ही नहीं। वो तो जानता है, त्रिकालदर्शी है, पहले से ही । उसे सोचने-विचारने की क्या दरकार? वो आता ही है हमको अमन बनाने के लिये। हम मन के ऊपर पूरा कंट्रोल कर लें, मन बिल्कुल हिल न सके तब आप समान बनाके हमको ले जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: अचेतन मन बहुत शक्तिशाली रहते हैं , बहुत शक्तिशाली होने के नाते से ये सर्वशक्तिवान का स्वरूप होगा?
बाबा: वो कुछ नहीं वो तो आत्मा सो परमात्मा वालों की थ्‍यारी है। वो आत्मा सो परमात्मा जो समझते हैं उनकी थ्‍यारी है। लेकिन ऐसा है नहीं।
जिज्ञासु: अचेतन मन और शिव बाबा में कोई सम्बन्ध नहीं?
बाबा: सम्बन्ध है। वो आकरके मन को अमन बनाता है तो सम्बन्ध हुआ ना?
जिज्ञासु: अमन बनाने के नाते से ही सम्बन्ध है बाकि और कोई...?
बाबा: ये कोई कम बात है क्या? मन को अमन बनाना; मन के आधार पर तो इन्द्रियाँ सुख-दुःख भोगती है। क्या? जैसे इंद्रियाँ आँख हैं। लवर्स होते हैं। मजनू-लैला है। एक दूसरे को याद करते हैं। मजनू के सामने से आदमी गुजरते चले जाते हैं, कारवाँ गुजर जाता है उसे अपनी लैला याद रहती है। वो कारवाँ को नहीं देखता। आँखे तो खुले थी। क्यों नहीं देखा? क्योंकि जो मन है वो देख रहा था? तो मन की आँखें अगर बन्द हैं तो ये आँखे काम नहीं करती। ये इन्द्रियाँ भी अपना सुख-दुःख नहीं ले सकती। मन जब इन्द्रियों के साथ जुडे़गा तो इंद्रियाँ अपना सुख-दुःख भोग सकेगी। तो मन ही मुख्य है।
जिज्ञासु: ये सुख-दुःख तो मान्यता है ना बाबा?
बाबा: मन ही भोगता है। मान्यता; मान्यता तब कहिये जब मन को अमन बना ले। जब मन को अमन बनाया नहीं है तो मान्यता क्यों है? वो तो सच्चाई है।

जिज्ञासु: मानने से दुःख-सुख होता है ना बाबा।
बाबा: अच्छा, तो हम थप्पड़ मार रहे हैं अभी। तो दुःख होगा या नहीं होगा? मैं, मैं, मैं,....तो मन है ना?

Disc.CD No.464, dated 14.12.07 at Pokhra, Nepal
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 20.05-21.21
Student: Baba, when the Confluence Age Lakshmi & Narayan sit on the throne....

Baba: Do they sit on the throne? Have the Confluence Age Lakshmi & Narayan been shown anywhere in the picture sitting on the throne?

Student: Ram and Sita sat (on the throne) in the Court of Ram, didn’t they?
Baba: As regards Ram and Sita, that is about the Silver Age.
Student: When they ascend the throne….....
Baba: They ascend the throne in the Silver Age.
Student: No, the Confluence Age Lakshmi and Narayan will come, will they not?
Baba: The Confluence Age Lakshmi and Narayan do not ascend the throne. The Father’s child is also like the Father. How is the Father? He has certainly come as an obedient servant of the entire world. So, how will the true son of the Father be as well? He will remain as a servant till the end although the world may consider him to be a Maharaja (a great king). For example, people did not like Duryodhan in the epic Mahabharata to be the Crown Prince and King; but what (did they use to think) about Yudhishthir? Everyone used to like Yudhishthir (to become the king). Yudhishtir had a feeling of servitude (seva bhaav). And Duryodhan did not have a feeling of servitude. It is a similar case.
Student: No, the world consists of so many crores (billions of people); when they are revealed, the Aadi dev (the first male deity) and Aadi devi (the first female deity) (are revealed), will the entire world definitely see them once?
Baba: The entire world will accept Adam and Eve.
Student: Will it accept?
Baba: It will accept and it will accept from its heart.
Student: Will it not be able to see?
Baba: It doesn’t matter if they are not be able to see. You didn’t see Gandhiji, so does Gandhiji not live in your heart?
Student: Yes.
Baba: Then?
Student: Then will they sit in the heart?
Baba: Yes.

Time: 23.00-27.26
Student: Baba, is the soul (atma) and the life-force (praan) one and the same.....or are both of them different things Baba?

Baba: When the soul departs (from the body), the process of inhalation and exhalation stops. It means that the soul is also a power. If it is present in the body, the body will work. As soon as it goes out, the body becomes lifeless.
Student: Is there a soul in the plants too?
Baba: There is a soul in it as well, but it is inert (jaratwamayi). What? Plants will keep waving at the same place where they grow. They will not function separately (from the place where they are fixed).
Student: Baba, the inner mind (antarman) which is there, isn’t it? It is a conscious-subconscious mind (chetan-achetan man). When we are in a stage of meditation, the sub-conscious mind....
Baba: The sub-conscious mind works in the stage of sleep (sushuptavastha).
Student:...is the sub-conscious mind connected with the Supreme Soul.
Baba: If the sub-conscious mind is connected, always connected with the Supreme Soul then where is the need for Him to come? He comes only because He wants to connect our mind with His intellect. Does the one who comes , does God have a mind (man) or is He without a mind (aman)?
Student: The one who is visible outside may be of whatever kind, (but) from within....
Baba: From outside…..Does His mind work? Does Brahma’s mind work? Does the mind of the one in whom He enters work or is God’s mind inconstant (chalaaymaan)?
Student: Brahma’s mind is inconstant.
Baba: Brahma’s mind works. The bodily being’s mind works. The one who does not have a body at all His mind is in a state of being without mind. There is no need for Him to use His mind at all. There is no need for Him to think at all. He is thoughtless (asochta). There is no need for Him to create good or bad thoughts at all. He knows (everything); He is Trikaaldarshi (i.e. the one who knows the past, present and future); He is present since the beginning . Where is the need for Him to think? He comes only to make us aman (one without a mind). We should gain full control over the mind; the mind should not shake at all. Then He will make us equal to Himself and take us along with Him.
Student: The sub-conscious mind is very powerful. In relation to being very powerful, will it be the form of the Almighty?
Baba: That is not true. That is a theory of those who believe that a soul is equal to the Supreme Soul. It is a theory of those who think that a soul is equal to the Supreme Soul. But it is not so.
Student: Is there no link between the sub-conscious mind and ShivBaba?
Baba: There is a relationship. He comes and makes the mind aman without mind; so there is a relationship, isn’t there?
Student: Is there only a relationship of making it aman or is there anything else….?
Baba: Is it any less? Making the mind aman; the organs experience happiness and sorrow only on the basis of the mind. What? For example, there are eyes as the organs . There are lovers. There is Majnu and Laila (famous lovers). They remember each other. People keep passing-by in front of Majnu; the caravan passes-by him, (but) he remembers his Laila; he does not see the caravan. The eyes were open; why did he not see (the caravan)? It is because , was the mind seeing? So, if the eyes of the mind are closed, then these (physical) eyes do not work. These organs cannot experience their happiness and sorrow either. When the mind is connected with the organs, the organs will be able to experience their happiness and sorrow . So, the mind alone is important.
Student: Baba, this happiness and sorrow is a belief , isn’t it?
Baba: The mind itself experiences. Belief; we can call it belief only when we transform the mind into aman. When we haven’t made the mind aman, then why is it a belief? It is a reality.
Student: Baba, there is sorrow and joy only when we believe so, isn’t it?
Baba: OK, I am going to slap you now. Will you feel the pain or not? (The student said something) Me, me, me.....so, the mind is there, isn’t it?...( to be continued)
....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 22 Jan 2010

वार्तालाप नं.464, पोखरा, नेपाल, दिनांक 14.12.07
भाग-३


समयः 27.30-28. 16
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये ओशो गुरू है ना। इनका आने का दरकार क्यों है?

बाबा: ये जो बड़े-बड़े इब्राहिम, बुद्ध, क्राईस्ट, गुरुनानक - ये क्यों आये? ये तो माया के रूप हैं। भगवान है तो भगवान के विरोध में फिर मायावी रूप भी होना चाहिये। नहीं तो ड्रामाबाजी कैसे होगी? ये दुनिया क्या है? ड्रामा है ना? नाटक खेलने के लिये सृष्टि पे इनका आना भी जरूरी है। कोई ड्रामा हो, नाटक हो, और उसमें विलियन (villain) हो ही नहीं विरोधी पार्ट बजाने वाला तो मजा आयेगा ड्रामा देखने में? मजा ही नहीं आयेगा।

समयः 34.02-37. 05
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, एक बात, सभी लोगों का जन्म 84 ही होता है?

बाबा: सभी का क्यों हो जायेगा 84 जन्म? नाली के कीड़े को उठा करके साफ-सुथरे जगह पर रख दो, वो साफ-सुथरी जगह में रहना चाहेगा या नाली में ही अपने को पसन्द करेगा?
जिज्ञासु: नाली में।
बाबा: नाली में ही पसन्द करेगा।
जिज्ञासु: साफ जगह में तो मर जायेंगे।
बाबा: हाँ मर जायेगा। ऐसे ही कलियुग के अंत में जन्म लेने वाली आत्मा को आप ये कहें कि हम सतयुग में ले जाके... ऐं, मजा नहीं आता, ये क्या सतयुग में कोई सुख होता है? हं? इन्द्रियों का कोई सुख ही नहीं होगा। ये सुख सुख नहीं है, हम नहीं चाहते है ऐसा। सन्यासी लोग कहेंगे हमें स्वर्ग के सुख कागविष्ठा समान हैं, हमें चाहिये नहीं। तो हरेक आत्मा का अपना-अपना स्वभाव-संस्कार है। अविनाशी स्वभाव-संस्कार है।
जिज्ञासु: किसी से भी पूछो आपको मरते वक्‍त कहाँ जाना है? तो बोलेगा मुझे स्वर्ग में जाना है।
बाबा: अच्छा सन्यासियों से पूछो।
जिज्ञासु: वो तो दूसरे धर्म वाले हैं।
बाबा: तो दूसरे धर्म वाले ही कहेंगे ना? सन्यासी तो नहीं कहेंगे? तो इब्राहिम, बुद्ध, क्राईस्ट ये सब सन्यासी ही तो हैं।
जिज्ञासु: वो कहेंगे कि अधर्म मत करो।
बाबा: वो जिसको अधर्म समझते हैं, वो अपनी वाणी को धर्म समझते हैं। उसके अलावा जो दूसरी वाणी बोलेगा उसको अधर्म समझते हैं। अधर्म समझते हैं इसलिये तो ईश्वर का आके विरोध करते हैं।
जिज्ञासु: वो भी कहेंगे किसी को कष्ट मत दो, किसी को दुःख मत दो।
बाबा: दुःख किसे कहते हैं और सुख किसे कहते है उसकी परिभाषा ही उनको नहीं मालूम। वो समझते हैं इन्द्रियों का सुख देना ही सुख है। इब्राहिम क्या कहेगा? इन्द्रियों से परे का भी कोई सुख होता है? वो मानेगा? जिज्ञासु: तो लोग क्यों फॉलो करते है उसे?
बाबा: किसको? जिज्ञासु: बुद्ध को, इब्राहिम को, क्राईस्ट को क्यो फ़ॉलो करते है?
बाबा: कुत्ते ही कुत्ते को फॉलो करेंगे ना?
जिज्ञासु: लेकिन आपका तो सभी बच्चे है ?
बाबा: सभी बच्‍चे....आपका?
जिज्ञासु: संसार के जितने भी लोग होंगे वो बाबा के ही बच्चे होंगे।
बाबा: हाँ, बाबा के बच्चे है लेकिन एक कैटेगिरी... एक बाप के 10 बच्चे होते हैं। 10 अलग-अलग कैटेगिरी के होते हैं या एक ही कैटेगिरि के होते हैं?

जिज्ञासु: पर भगवान जो बाप होता है वो चोर भी हो, डकैत भी हो सभी को प्यार तो उतना ही करता है।
बाबा: प्यार तो करता है लेकिन जो बादशाही देता है वो बड़े बच्चे को देता है या छोटे बच्चे को देता है?
जिज्ञासु: बादशाही तो देते हैं ।
बाबा: तो क्यों देता है बड़े बच्चे को? जानते हैं ना कि ये ज्यादा प्योरिटी के पावर से पैदा हुआ है। लम्बे समय की प्योरिटी के पावर से पहला बच्चा पैदा हुआ है। तो वो ज्यादा हकदार बन जाता है ना? तो ऐसे ही बच्चे तो सब है लेकिन कोई बाप को पहचानते है, कोई नहीं पहचानते हैं। जो पहले बाप को पहचानते हैं वो पहला बच्चा हैं, जो पहचानता ही नहीं और विपरीत आचरण करता है वो बच्चा है? बाप के कंट्रोल में रहे वो बच्चा या बाप के कंट्रोल से हमेशा बाहर रहे वो बाप का बच्चा?
जिज्ञासु: बच्चा तो दोनों ही है पर जो कंट्रोल में है वो ही सच्चा बच्चा है।
बाबा: फिर कैटेगिरि अलग-अलग हो गई ना?

Disc.CD No.464, dated 14.12.07 at Pokhra, Nepal
Extracts-Part-3


Time: 27.30-28.16
Student: Baba, there is a Guru Osho, isn’t he? What is the need for him to come?

Baba: Why did these big personalities (like) Abraham, Buddha, Christ, Guru Nanak come? They are forms of Maya. When there is God, then there should also be Mayavi (illusive) forms in the opposition of God. Otherwise, how will the drama be enacted? What is this world? It is a drama, isn’t it? Their arrival in this world is also necessary for the drama to be enacted. If there is a drama, and if there is no villain, if there’s nobody playing the part of an opponent at all, then will there be any joy in seeing the drama? There will not be any pleasure at all.

Time: 34.02-37.05
Student: Baba, (I wish to ask) one thing, do all the people take 84 births?

Baba: Why will everyone take 84 births? If you pick a worm from a drain and keep it at a clean place, would it like to live in a clean place or would it like to live in the drain?
Student: In the drain.
Baba: It would like to live in the drain only.
Student: It will die in a clean place.
Baba: Yes, it will die. Similarly, if you tell the souls taking birth at the end of the Iron Age , we will take you to the Golden Age…....(they will say) No, there is no pleasure there. What is this? Is there any pleasure in the Golden Age? Hum? There will not be any pleasure of the organs at all. This pleasure is not a pleasure. We don’t desire such (pleasure). Sanyasis will say , for us the joys of heaven are like the excreta of the crow, we do not want it. So, every soul has its own nature and sanskars. Every soul has imperishable nature and sanskars.
Student: If you ask anyone at the time of his/her death where he/she wants to go, he will say , I wish to go to heaven.
Baba: OK, ask the Sanyasis.
Student: They belong to the other religions.
Baba: So, only those who belong to the other religions will say (they do not desire to go to heaven), will they not? Sanyasis will not say (that they want to go to heaven), will they? So, Abraham, Buddha, Christ , all of them are indeed Sanyasis, are they not?
Student: They will say, don’t do adharma (unrighteousness).
Baba: Whatever they consider as adharma (unrighteousness); they consider their versions to be dharma (religion) and they think that whatever anyone except them says is adharma. They consider it to be adharma, this is why they come and oppose God.
Student: They will also say , don’t give trouble to anyone. Don’t give sorrow to anyone.
Baba: They do not know the very definition of what is sorrow and what is happiness at all. They feel that giving the pleasure of organs alone is happiness. What will Abraham say? Will he accept that there is something like joy beyond the organs? Will he accept?
Student: So, why do people follow him?
Baba: Whom?
Student: Why do people follow Buddha, Abraham, Christ?
Baba: Only the dogs will follow a dog, will they not?
Student: But everyone is your child.
Baba: All the children…....are yours?
Student: All the people of the world will be Baba’s children only.
Baba: Yes, they are Baba’s children, but as regards one category….....(suppose) a Father has ten children. Are they of ten different categories or of the same category?
Student: But God who is the Father loves everyone equally, whether he (child) is a thief, (or) a dacoit (burglar).
Baba: He does love, but does He give the emperorship to the eldest son or to the younger son?
Student: He does give the emperorship (to the eldest son).
Baba: So, why does He give (the emperorship) to the eldest son? (Because) he knows that he is born through the power of greater purity. The first son is born by the power of long period of purity. So, he (the eldest son) becomes the one having more right (on the emperorship) , doesn’t he? So, similarly, everyone is a child, but some recognize the Father, some do not recognize Him. The one who recognizes the Father first is the first son. Is the one who does not recognize Him at all and performs opposite actions, a child? Is a child who remains under the control of the Father considered to be a child or is the child who always remains out of the Father’s control be considered to be the Father’s child?
Student: Both are children, but the one who remains under his control is the true child.
Baba: Thus the category is different, isn’t it? ...................... (to be continued)
.....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 23 Jan 2010

वार्तालाप नं.464, विशाखापट्टनम, दिनांक 10.12.07
भाग-४


समयः 02.10-02.40
जिज्ञासुः 50-60 साल ये पढ़ाई चलेगी। पढ़ाई पढ़ायेंगे।

बाबा: पढायेंगे। पढ़ाई कौन पढ़ाता है? पढ़ाई पढ़ाने वाला क्या कहा जाता है? टीचर। टीचर का पार्ट कब से शुरु होता है? 76 से। तो 76 से लेके कब तक? 36 तक ये टीचर का पार्ट है। जब तक जीना है तब तक? तब तक पीना है। तो 60 साल की पढ़ाई है।

समयः 02.41-04.21
जिज्ञासुः पढ़ेंगे-लिखेंगे तो बनेंगे नवाब, खेलेंगे कूदेंगे तो होंगे खराब। हरेक आत्मा का....कुछ आत्माओं का पढ़ाई-लिखाई नहीं होता है। फिर भी वो तो याद तो करता है। फिर दास-दासी क्यों बनता है? कारण?

बाबा: पढ़ाई-लिखाई जो करता है तो पढ़ाई-लिखाई ज्यादा करेगा वो ऊँच पद पायेगा या कम पढ़ाई-लिखाई करेगा वो ऊँच पद पायेगा? कोई चपरासी भी बनते हैं। वो मुश्किल से आठवीं पास या हाई स्कूल पास कर पाते हैं। कोई आए. पी. एस, आए. ई. एस बनते हैं – बड़े-बड़े ऑफिसर। तो पढ़ाई पढ़ाई ऊँची पढेंगे तभी तो।
जिज्ञासु: कुछ लोग ऐसे होते हैं कुछ पढ़ाई-लिखाई नहीं करते हैं पर उससे ज्यादा कमाते हैं। उनसे मान-मर्तबा भी ज्‍यादा लेते हैं।
बाबा: वो कौड़ियों की कमाई की बात है। ईश्‍वरीय पढ़ाई की बात नहीं है। यहाँ तो हिसाब बना हुआ है, वहाँ तो पूर्व जन्मों का हिसाब मिलता है। क्या? कोई इस जन्म में कोई मेहनत नहीं करता और बाप दादे की कमाई हुई मिल्कियत उनको मिल जाती है। पूर्व जन्मों का हिसाब-किताब है तो उनको मिल जाती है और यहाँ तो? यहाँ तो जो जितनी पढा़ई पढ़ेंगे, ब्राह्मण जीवन में चाहे भले पूर्व जन्म में पढ़ी हो लेकिन 2-3 जन्म से ज्यादा तो ब्राह्मण जन्म होता ही नहीं। उनको उतना मर्तबा मिलेगा।

समयः 07.10-09.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, हमारे अन्दर सिक्स्थ सेन्स (6th sense) कब आयेगा बाबा?

बाबाः क्या आयेगा?
जिज्ञासुः सिक्स्थ सेन्स (6th sense) माना जो कुछ भी होने वाला है वो पुराने जमाने में ऋषि-मुनि जो भी होता है...
बाबाः वो तो जो चिड़ि‍याँ होती है ना, जब आंधी आने वाली होती है तो चिड़ि‍यों को पहले से पता लग जाता है कि आंधी आने वाली है और वो अपना रास्ता पकड़ लेती है। क्या? क्योंकि वो कपट बुद्धि नहीं होती है। जो जितना सहज स्वभाव वाला होता है, जितना सात्विक् बुद्धि होती है तो उनको पहले से पता लगता है।
जिज्ञासु: सभी जानवरों को पता चल जाता है।
बाबा: हाँ, जानवरों को भी पता चलता है। मनुष्य के मुकाबले जानवर तो बहुत कम कपट बुद्धि है। छल-छिद्र, कपट होता ही नहीं। मनुष्य ज्यादा नीचे भी गिरता है और ज्यादा ऊँचा भी उठता है। पुरुषार्थ करते-करते मनुष्य आत्मा इतनी ऊँची उठती है कि सब पता पडेगा आगे चलके कि क्या होने वाला है। इतनी सात्विक बुद्धि हो जावेगी कि मोबाईल की दरकार ही नहीं पडेगी। दूर बैठे ही बात करते रहो।

Disc.CD No.464, dated 10.12.07 at Vishakhapatnam
Extracts


Time: 02.10-02.40
Student: This study will continue for 50-60 years. The knowledge will be taught.

Baba: It will be taught. Who teaches the knowledge? What is the person who teaches called? A teacher. Since when does the part of a teacher begin? Since (19)76. So, since (19)76 till when? This part of the teacher is till (20)36. Until we are alive, what should we do? We have to drink (the nectar of knowledge). So, the study is for 60 years.

Time: 02.41-04.21
Student: [There is a proverb] , if you study well you will become a Nawab (a prince), if you keep playing you will spoil. Every soul...Some souls do not study but they do remember (ShivBaba). Then why do they become servants or maids (daas-daasi)? What is the reason?

Baba: As regards those who study, will someone who studies more achieve a high post or will someone who studies less achieve a high post? Some also become peon. They hardly pass the eighth standard or High school. Some become big officers like IPS (Indian Police Service), IAS (Indian Administrative Service). They can become (officers) only when they do their higher studies.
Student: There are some people, who do not study anything, but they earn more than them (those who study more).They also receive more honor and position as compared to them.
Baba: That is about earning shells (cowri) (money). It is not about the Godly knowledge. Here, we have a system; there, (in the outside world) we attain the fruits according to the past births. What? There are some who do not do any work hard in this birth and they obtain the property earned by their Father and grandfather. If there is a karmic account of the past births, they obtain it, and here? Here, whoever studies to whatever extent in the Brahmin life, ... although they have studied in the past birth; one cannot take more than 2-3 Brahmin births (in the Confluence Age). They will attain a position to that extent.

Time: 07.10-09.10
Student: Baba, when will we develop the sixth sense Baba?

Baba: What will you develop?
Student: The sixth sense, i.e. (feeling of) whatever is going to happen (in future), the sages and saints in the ancient times....

Baba: When a storm is about to come, the birds develop a feeling well before, that a storm is about to come and they choose their path (to safety). What? It is because they do not have a deceitful intellect. The more someone has an easy nature, the more someone has a true (satwik) intellect, they develop a feeling well before.
Student: All the animals develop a feeling.
Baba: Yes, the animals also develop a feeling. When compared to the human beings, animals have a lesser deceitful intellect. They do not have any feeling of deception and wickedness at all. A human being falls to greater depths as well as rises to greater heights. While making special effort for the soul (purusharth), a human soul rises so high that he will come to know everything; in future [he will come to know] regarding what is going to happen. The intellect will become so true that there will not be any need for mobile at all. You can talk while sitting far away............. (concluded)
..................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 03 Feb 2010

Disc.CD No.463, dated 13.12.07 at Kathmandu
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 0.30-19.48
Student: Baba, there is a confusion going on [in my mind] that when Dada Lekhraj left Benares after having visions, did he go straight to Sindh, Hyderabad or did he go straight to Calcutta to take the answers to his questions?

Baba: Did he go from Benares?
Student: For example, for his questions……when he had visions…..he went to his gurus. So, after that he went to Benares.
Baba: He asked his gurus; then he asked other gurus as well.
Student: He asked his guru, then, when he could not understand there, he went to Benares.
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, when he returned from that place…
Baba: No, he did not return.
Student: So, then where did he go?
Baba: To his seat [of business], to his old seat.
Student: Did he go directly to Calcutta?
Baba: Yes.
Student: Or did he go to Sindh, Hyderabad?
Baba: Why will he go to Sindh, Hyderabad? He was firmly devoted.Student: And first of all, the mother who was in front, Gita mata (the mother Gita), was it she who was in front or was the soul of Ram also with her?
Baba: It is a wonder; you ask the same thing again and again. You forget.
Student: Baba, the confusion is still going on.
Baba: Why is the confusion going on when Baba says, when I come I do not come alone? With how many personalities (murtis) do I come? I come with three personalities. This is why I am called Trimurti Shiv. I do not come alone at all.
Student: But Baba, when Brahma Baba narrated….
Baba: Brahma Baba narrated separately to the mothers; then the mother who was more courageous between them…. courage is required to speak to big personalities. Otherwise, Brahma Baba would have told himself [about the visions to] his partner. He did not have courage to tell himself. Krishna is a child, isn’t he? So, with whom is a child more attached? A child is more attached to the mother. So, he went and narrated to the mother.
Student: Was Sevakram not present at that time?
Baba: Why not? When Brahma Baba narrated [about his visions to the mother], he was not present. When the mothers asked [Sevakram], at that time both the mothers were present.
Student: No, [about] the visions that he narrated in the beginning…Baba: He had visions in Sindh, Hyderabad. [To find an answer to] whatever happened in Sindh, Hyderabad, he kept wandering, asking about them. He did not find [an answer] anywhere. Then at last he reached his seat of business. On the basis of his life experience, whom did he find to be the most truthful person in his life? So, he found his partner to be the most truthful person; he was cleverer too. He was a better judge of gems, but he was poor. His partner was indeed a jeweler; but the one who is truthful, the one who works truthfully , his shop does not run well in today’s world. Wheras, the business of liars flourishes a lot. It is indeed a world of falsehood.

Brahma Baba is the soul of Krishna, isn’t he? With whose [horoscope] is the horoscope of Krishna matched? It is matched with [the horoscope of] Christ; why is it matched [with Christ]? It is because on the basis of whatever Christ taught, the Christians adopted pomp and show. What? They are very happy, very sweet from outside and from within? There is anger within. So, the horoscope of Krishna and Christ is matched.

Now, which kinds of souls appear to be happier and more satopradhan (consisting mainly in the quality of goodness and purity) in the world? Christians. Indians appear to be very tamopradhan (dominated mainly by the quality of darkness or ignorance). They appear to be very sorrowful as well. Similarly, see in the picture of the Ladder. In the picture of the Ladder, in the end of the Iron Age, it has been depicted in the Ladder that Brahma Baba is standing and who is lying on the bed of thorns? The soul of Ram is lying in the jungle of thorns. Why? The horoscope of the soul of Krishna is matched with Christians. So, he remains prosperous even in the last birth. He does not become poor; and what about the soul of Ram? Poor; he is a jeweler for name sake. But his shop does not do well.

So, the person whom Brahma Baba found to be true, clean-hearted, intelligent, a better judge of gems than him, he entrusted the shop to that person, made him his partner and went away. So, he lost faith on the scriptures and gurus and he reached that place. Even there, he did not gather courage to tell him directly, he could not gather courage to tell about the visions to the partner directly. He was more connected with the mothers
............(to be continued)
............................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 04 Feb 2010

Disc.CD No.463, dated 13.12.07 at Kathmandu
Extracts-Part-2


Student: Was Sevakram not present there at that time? When he (Brahma Baba) told Gita mata, where was Sevakram at that time? Everyone is becoming confused in this very issue.
Baba: Where was he? He was sitting in his shop; where else could he be?
Student: So, he was at his shop; they (i.e. the mothers) were at their homes, weren’t they? Both the mothers were at homes, weren’t they?
Baba: Yes, he narrated to the mothers separately.
Student: So, I mean to ask, when did Sevakram come? This is what we are being asked.
Baba: The mothers asked him [Sevakram] separately.
Student: So, was Baba not present there [when the mothers asked Sevakram]? Was Brahma Baba not present there?
Baba: Does a child take birth later on or does he take birth along with the mother?
Student: No, whatever the first mother (adi mata) narrated to Sevakram…..
Baba: The first mother was not alone. The second mother was also there; all the three personalities should be there.
Student: So, who said that you are Shri Krishna, you yourself are the soul of Shri Krishna?
Baba: The [one who belongs to] the path of Bhakti will do the task of listening and narrating and the Father will do the task of understanding and explaining and there is one more [personality], a third personality as well, which remains neutral. It is neither more interested in listening and narrating nor more interested in understanding and explaining. It is a soul that performs practical actions. Is the soul of Radha the one who does practical actions or the one who performs the task of listening and narrating and the task of understanding and explaining?
Student: She is the one who performs practical actions.
Baba: Yes, so, she continued to listen.
Student: Who said [to Dada Lekhraj], You yourself are Shri Krishna. You yourself are Shri Krishna; you have to do all this.
Baba: As regards that, only the one who must have heard will say it . The one who has faith on the process of listening will say so, will he not? So, did he become Shri Krishna. Did he become Shri Krishna on being said by her (mother) or did he develop a blind faith [for the clarification], I myself am the soul of Krishna, only I will become Brahma?
Student: It fitted.
Baba: Yes, it fitted in the intellect.
Student: Through whose mouth was it narrated? This is what I am asking. [Was it narrated] through the mouth of Gita mata or through Sevakram?
Baba: When he listens through the mouth of the true one, will he become a true Krishna or a false Krishna?
Student: True Krishna.
Baba: Between those two mothers, who was true and who was false? One is the true Gita and the other is the false Gita. Hell is created by the false Gita . A hell is created in the Confluence Age world of Brahmins as well. She is the world mother. World mother means that she is the mother of Christians as well as the mother of Muslims. She is the mother of Buddhists as well as the mother of atheists. And another one is the Mother India (Bharat mata) about whom it has been said in the first Avyakt Vani: Mother India, the Shiv Shakti incarnation; this is the slogan of the end. The Gangas (the river Ganges) of knowledge have emerged in the end, the Gangas of knowledge who become instruments in purifying the sinful ones. The mother who influenced Brahma Baba in the beginning, the mother who used to control everything, who was that mother in whom the Father Shiv used to enter? Arey! There was one such mother also between those two in whom Shiv used to enter. Does entry [of Shiv] take place in sinful ones or in a pure one? (Everyone said – in the sinful one.) Definitely one of the two mothers becomes more sinful.
Student: Gita Mata.
Baba: No, both are Gita Matas.
Student: The senior one.
Baba: Yes, one is the mother Gita who is accepted by people, spoken of by the people, known by the people and the other is the true Gita whose introduction God, the Father comes and gives. So, Brahma Baba too was under her influence. Under whose influence was he? He was under the influence of that mother from whom he heard that he will become Krishna, that he himself was going to play the part of Brahma. So, under that influence, when virgins and mothers ran away from Sindh, Hyderabad and gathered at Karachi in the year [19]47, Brahma Baba developed firm faith, and his intoxication rised hundred percent and he declared about himself, “I am God Krishna’. If there is any corporeal God of the Gita in this world, it is me.

So, who is the first and biggest human guru of the world? Brahma Baba himself happens to be the biggest guru of the world. This is why Brahma’s temples in the world…; although the biggest task of Brahma was performed by him alone; nobody else showed such tolerance either, but the foundation which should be strong, was a foundation of listening and narrating of the path of Bhakti (devotion). This is why Brahma is compared with Gandhiji. Gandhiji used to say, I will establish the kingdom of Ram, I will go to the kingdom of Ram, I will bring about the kingdom of Ram; I will establish heaven; but instead of a kingdom of Ram, a kingdom of Ravan was established. He was the Gandhi in a limited sense and this one? This one is the Gandhi in an unlimited sense.

It has been said for that Gandhi, it has been said for that Gandhi in an unlimited sense too, in the Murli, “When Gandhi died, he took birth at the home of a prosperous Congressman.” So, when the unlimited Gandhi, too, leaves his body, where does he go and take birth? [He takes birth at] Rajkot (also a place in Rajasthan), a fort of kings. A place where there is a fort of kings, i.e. gathering. (He enters) in a prosperous Congressman of the place where the gathering of kings of the Advance Party takes place; [is he prosperous] in physical wealth or in the gems of knowledge? He enters the Congressman who is prosperous in the gems of knowledge and then studies knowledge in the form of a child.

So, Brahma is proved to be the Gandhi in an unlimited sense. When partition of India and Pakistan took place in the year (19)47, he became intoxicated and decided firmly within his mind: I have to create the new world in the form of Brahma and after coming to Mt. Abu he declared the [establishment of] ‘Brahmakumari Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalay’. Otherwise, he would have added the word ‘Prajapita’; he removed the name and trace of Prajapita. So, on the basis of his name he named Brahmakumari Vidyalay. Otherwise, was the name ‘Om Mandali’ or was it ‘Brahmakumari Vidyalay’ earlier? It was Om Mandali. The word ‘Om’ includes all the three: ‘Aa’ ‘U’, ‘Ma’ – Brahma, Vishnu, [and] Shankar. That was cancelled.
...(to be continued)
............................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 05 Feb 2010

Disc.CD No.463, dated 13.12.07 at Kathmandu
Extracts-Part-3


Time: 19.50-20.45
Student: Baba, Ram and Sita are shown in a sitting posture in the temples whereas Lakshmi and Narayan are depicted in a standing posture. Why?

Baba: In the picture of Lakshmi and Narayan, the Lakshmi and Narayan who are shown to be standing; are they shown standing in the world of heaven or in the world of Confluence Age light, in the light of knowledge?
Student: In the light of knowledge.
Baba: In the light of knowledge. So, is it better to stand in the light of knowledge or is it better to lie down or to sit? (Everyone said – To remain standing.) Should we enjoy kingship here or should we serve? Our Father has come as an obedient servant; so should the Brahmins remain as obedient servants or should they establish their kingships [here]? [Should they order:] do this, do that, why has this not been done, why did you not do this? Others……Remain as a sevadhari (a server).

Time: 43.07-44.21
Student: Baba, whom does Baba refer to as the great-great-grandfather, [is it] ShivBaba or Prajapita?

Baba: Is the topic of ‘high and low’ about the corporeal world or about the incorporeal world? It is about the corporeal world. When someone is called ‘great-great’, a comparison has been made with others, hasn’t it? When someone has been called ‘great-great’, then a comparison has been made with someone. Or when we say, ‘Dev-Dev-Mahadev’, it means that there is a lowly deity, then the one who is higher than him [i.e.] a deity higher than another deity (dev se dev); then who is greater than that deity? Mahadev (the greatest deity). So, similarly, here, too, it is great-great-grandfather. It means that the other religious fathers are no doubt great, but they are not grandfathers. Only ShivBaba is that (grandfather). He is the Father of even those religious fathers who are great fathers. That is why he is the great-great-grandfather. He is the one who teaches them too. He gives them their introduction too: you are the religious fathers. You have to come in the beginning of the Copper Age and become this [i.e.] Abraham, Buddha, Christ.

Disc.CD No.463, dated 02.12.07 at Hyderabad
Extracts


Time: 1.28-5.08
Student: Baba, when did the task of explaining the meanings of Murlis begin?

Baba: When does the form of the teacher begin? When the Supreme Teacher is revealed, the Father will also be revealed because the form of the Father, Teacher and Sadguru is the same. They are not different forms.
Student: I am asking because the recording of Murlis began only from [19]90, didn’t it?
Baba: Although recording may have started later on ... materials (sadhan) come later but the effort (sadhna) is present well before.
Student: Baba, you had said that the initial Murlis were very powerful.Baba: What is meant by Murlis?
Student: Baba also develops intoxication by listening to them, by listening to the Murlis.
Baba: Doesn’t the intoxication rise now?
Student: But it will be less than them (the early Murlis) because….....Baba: Why?
Student: It is because the stage changes from sato (consisting mainly in the quality of goodness and purity) to tamo (dominated by the quality of darkness or ignorance)....
Baba: OK, it means that the intoxication of the soul of Shankar or Ram was raised more in the year [19]76 and that the intoxication has decreased now.
Student: It has been said that the Father’s study was over in 76 itself.Baba: Yes, we can say that the Father is revealed in the form of the Father in 76; children are anyway children.
Student: The Murlis which used to be explained earlier, whatever we understand in it, we do not get that [much] explanation in the present day Murlis , do we?
Baba: Yes, earlier the material [of knowledge] was sharp and short. Is essence better or expansion better? Essence is better. For example, were the scriptures that were made in the beginning of the Copper Age the real material or were the interpretations of the scriptures that emerged later on and the expansion of scriptures that took place, a better material? The material in the beginning was better. Old is gold; but now TV has emerged, hasn’t it? So, people like watching TV more. The old cassettes, old recordings which are in a rotten condition; although they may be very fast, they are short, in essence form. Nobody listens to them now.
Student: In the old cassettes the eight gems have been mentioned. There is no mention of the eight deities.
Baba: Why? Why is it not there? Everything is there. There is everything in the Murlis itself. Leave the topic of clarification alone. Arey, the essence of all the scriptures is in the Vedvani itself. This Mahabharata was written later on.
Student: But the Murlis (clarification) that were narrated before that, did it not contain anything….the Murlis that were narrated before the process of recording began [in 1990].
Baba: That itself is the essence of the true Gita. (concluded)
............................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 07 Feb 2010

वार्तालाप नं.465, औरी, बर्दिया, नेपाल, दिनांक 15.12.07
उद्धरण-भाग-१


समयः 00.15-04. 55
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, विजयमाला का आवाहन कैसे करें?

बाबा: माला हाथ में पकड़ो और कहो- आ जाओ-3। मक्खियों का छत्ता होता हैं। शहद की मक्खियाँ होती हैं ना? पूरे छत्ते का आह्वान कैसे किया जाता है? क्या करना पड़ता है? रानी मक्खी को पकड़ लो, तो सारा छत्ता तैयार अपने आप आ जायेगा। ऐसे ही मुरली में बोला है कि शहद की मक्खियों की एक रानी होती है। एक रानी मक्खी निकलती है तो सारा झाड़ उसके पीछे जाता है। तो बुद्धियोग से, बुद्धिरूपी हाथ से उस एक ही रानी मक्खी को पकड़ लिया जाये तो सारा झाड़ उसके पीछे-2 अपने आप आ जायेगा। अच्छा रुद्रमाला के मणके जो हैं, उनमें मुखिया को पकड़ लिया जाए तो सारा झाड क्यों नहीं इकठ्ठा हो जाता? क्योंकि ये जन्म-जन्मांतर के राजायें हैं। ये राजायें हिस्ट्री में आपस में लड़ाई लड़ते रहे। तो ये एक नहीं होते हैं। क्यों नहीं एक होते? कोई कारण होगा।

राजायें ज्यादा विकारी बने हैं या रानियाँ ज्यादा विकारी बनी? राजायें बहुत विकारी बने। जहाँ विकारी होते हैं, व्यभिचारी होते हैं तो वैश्यालय बनता है या शिवालय बनता है? वैश्यालय बनता है। तो ये, न एक होंगे और न एक होने देंगे। ये तो विघटन डालने वाले हैं। इसलिए किसका आह्वान करो? रानी मक्खी का आह्वान करो, वो सबको एक में बाँध लेगी। प्योरिटि से युनिटी बनती है। जहाँ इम्प्योरिटी होती है या जिसमें भी इम्प्योरिटी होगी वो युनिटी नहीं बनाय सकते। एकै साधे सब सधै, सब साधे सब जाये। नहीं तो सीता का नाम पहले और राम का नाम बाद में क्यों आता? राधा का नाम पहले और कृष्ण का नाम बाद में क्यों आता?

जिज्ञासु: बाबा, लक्ष्मी को पहले और नारायण को बाद में तो फिर शंकर पहले और पार्वती बाद में क्यों आती है?
बाबा: वो तो भगवान है। नारायण कोई भगवान थोड़े ही है, वो तो देवता है। ये देवताओं के नाम है, राधा-कृष्ण, सीता–राम, लक्ष्मी–नारायण। और शंकर क्या है? शंकर तो भगवान का रूप है। देव-2 महादेव कहा जाता है। एक ही तो रूप है भगवान का प्रैक्टिकल में, दूसरा तो कोई भगवान का रूप ही नहीं है। इसलिये तो शंकर का नाम शिव के साथ जोड़ा गया है। नहीं तो ब्रह्माकुमारियों से पूछो- तुम कहते तो हो शिव शंकर अलग-2 है। फिर शिव-शंकर को एक क्यों कर दिया? जवाब मिलेगा? जवाब उनके पास है ही नहीं। तुम्हारे पास तो जवाब है कि शिव शंकर को अलग-2 होते हुए भी शिव शंकर को भक्तिमार्ग में इसलिए मिला दिया कि शंकर ने ऐसा पुरुषार्थ किया एक बाप को याद करने का कि उनकी आत्मा जैसे परमात्मा के सब संकल्पों में लीन हो गई, एक हो गई, एकाकार हो गई। इसलिए शंकर ही शिव समान बन गया। अथवा यूँ कहें कि बाप शिव ने आ करके बच्चे को आप समान बनाय लिया।

समयः 05.00-05.40
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जैसे बोला ना, रूद्रमाला के मणके जितने हैं वो जन्म-जन्म के राजायें हैं और उनको कहा कि जन्म-जन्म की रानी है। फिर ये भी कहते है कि एक जन्म स्त्री का और एक जन्म पुरुष का है। फिर ये कैसे? दोनों हिसाब कैसे होगाॽ

बाबा: जब वो राजा बने तब वो रानी नहीं बन सकती?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं वो जन्म-जन्म की रानी...
बाबा: हाँ तो वो जब राजा बने तब वो रानी नहीं बन सकती क्या?
जिज्ञासु: जन्म-2 के राजा ये पुरुष हुए तो...
बाबा: तो 84 जन्म कोई राजा थोड़े ही होता है। कोई जन्म में राजा होगा, कोई जन्म में साहूकार भी होगा। हर जन्म में कोई राजा बनता है क्या? हर जन्म में राजा थोड़े ही बनता है।

समयः 07.25-10.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, अंत में सभी आत्मायें पुरुषार्थी बच्चे अपने-अपने पार्ट को महसूस भी करेंगे और उसमें संतुष्ट भी रहेंगे।

बाबा: हाँ, ठीक है।
जिज्ञासु: अभी पुरुषार्थी स्टेज में उसको अभी से ही महसूस करने के लिए क्या सहज विधि है?
बाबा: आत्मा बनेंगे तब ही तो महसूस करेंगे। जब तक वर्तमान जीवन का देहभान, जो देह है उसका भान है तब तक आत्मा के अनेक जन्मों को कैसे जान लेंगे? आत्मिक स्थिति में आवेंगे, बीज बनेंगे तो बीज देखने से झाड़ समझ में आ जावेगा। अब बीज ही नहीं बने। पहले तो बीज समझ में आवे कि हमारी आत्मा रूपी बीज कौनसी कैटेगिरी का है? आम का है, बबूल का है, बैंगन का है, कौनसा है? ये ही समझ में नहीं आ रहा है।
जिज्ञासु: सहज आत्मिक स्थिति को प्राप्त करने के लिए ...
बाबा: हाँ जी। इसलिए बोला, आत्मा रूपी सुई की सारी कट उतरने पर तुम डायरेक्ट बाप से सीखोगे। तो बेसिक नॉलेज जो बिन्दु को याद करने की थी कि हम आत्मा ज्योतिबिन्दु, हमारा बाप ज्योतिबिन्दु; इस बेसिक नॉलेज में रमण करते-2 जिन्होंने, याद करते-2 अपने को बिन्दु बनाय लिया उनकी कट जैसे उतर गई? बेसिकली। पूरी कट नहीं उतरी, बेसिकली उतरी। वो बाप को पहचानते हैं और बाप से पढ़ाई पढ़ते हैं। फिर पढ़ाई चलती है एडवांस ।
कि बिन्दु-2 आत्मा, हम ज्योतिबिन्दु है, बाप हमारा ज्योतिबिन्दु है - ये तो सामान्य नॉलेज हो गई। लेकिन हम ज्योतिबिन्दु आत्मा कौनसी कैटैगिरी की आत्मा है? ये कैटैगिरी का तो पता चले। कैटैगिरी पहले बाप की पता चलेगी या पहले अपनी पता चल जायेगी? पहले कैटैगिरी बाप की पता चले। तो जो भी जन्म मरण के चक्र में आने वाली आत्मायें हैं उनकी कितनी कैटैगिरीज है मुख्य-2? 10 कैटैगरीज है़ं। एक नास्तिक और बाकी आस्तिक, नम्बरवार, भगवान को मानने वाले। तो हम किस कैटैगिरी में हैं? झाड़ के चित्र में दिखा तो दिया, बता तो दिया कि देवताओं की कैटैगिरी ये हैं, उनमें सहनशक्ति का विशेष गुण होगा। क्षत्रियों की कैटैगिरी ये है। सहनशक्ति होगी जरूर लेकिन वो सामना करने की शक्ति का पहले उपयोग करेंगे। इस्लामी...
जिज्ञासु: सामना कैसे बाबा? सामना कैसे करेंगे?
बाबा: सागर कैसे सामना करता है लहरों से? तूफान आता है, सागर कैसे सामना करता है?
जिज्ञासु: शांत रहता है अन्दर से।
बाबा: अन्दर से तो शांत है लेकिन सामना करता है कि नहीं? ऊँची-2 लहरे ज्ञान की आती है, सामना करता है। तूफान आने दो। तूफान क्या करेंगे? ज्ञान के सामने सब तूफान ठंडे हो जाते हैं।

Disc.CD No.465, dated 15.12.07 at Auri, Bardia, Nepal
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 00.15-04.55
Student: Baba, how should we summon the rosary of victory (Vijaymala)?

Baba: (jokingly) Hold the rosary in your hand and say: come, come, come! There is a bee hive (for example); there are honey bees, aren't there? How is the entire bee-hive summoned? What do you have to do? Catch the Queen Bee; then the entire bee-hive will come automatically. Similarly, it has been said in a Murli , there is a queen bee of honey-bees. When one Queen Bee emerges, the entire tree (i.e. hive) follows her. So, if you catch hold of only that one Queen Bee with your connection of the intellect, through the hand-like intellect, the entire tree will follow her automatically. OK, why doesn’t the entire tree come together if we catch hold of the chief among the beads of the rosary of Rudra (Rudramala)? It is because they are kings of many births. These kings continued to fight battles with each other in the history. So, they do not unite. Why don’t they unite? There must be some reason.

Have the kings become more vicious or the queens become more vicious? The kings became more vicious. Where there are vicious people, where there are adulterous people, does that place become a brothel (Vaishyalay) or does it become Shivalay (a temple of Shiv)? It becomes a brothel. So, they (the kings) will neither unite nor allow others to unite. They are the ones who bring about dissolution. That is why whom should you summon? Summon the Queen bee; she will unite everyone. Purity leads to unity. Where there is impurity or whoever has impurity cannot create unity. ‘If we try to accomplish one thing, we accomplish everything and if we try to accomplish everything, everything is lost’ (eke saadhe sab sadhe, sab sadhe sab jaye). Otherwise, why is Sita’s name uttered first and the name of Ram uttered later? Why is Radha’s name uttered first and Krishna’s name later?


Student: Baba, Lakshmi’s name is [uttered] first, Narayan’s name [is uttered] later on. So, why is Shankar’s name uttered first and Parvati’s name later on?
Baba: He is God. Narayan is not God, he is a deity. These are the names of the deities – Radha-Krishna, Sita-Ram, Lakshmi-Narayan. And what is Shankar? Shankar is the form of God. It is said Dev-Dev-Mahadev (highest among all the deities). There is only one form of God in practical. There is no other form of God at all. That is why Shankar’s name is suffixed to Shiv. Otherwise, if you ask the Brahmakumaris, You say that Shiv and Shankar are different. Then why are [the names of] Shiv and Shankar mixed-up? Will you get a reply? They do not have a reply at all. You have the reply, that despite Shiv and Shankar being separate, Shiv and Shankar have been mixed up in the path of Bhakti because Shankar did such purusharth (special effort for the soul) to remember the One Father that his soul merged in all the thoughts of the Supreme Soul; it became one [with the thoughts of God]; it became one and the same. That is why Shankar himself became equal to Shiv. Or we can say that the Father Shiv came and made the child equal to Himself.

Time: 05.00-05.40
Student: Baba, just as it has been said that all the beads of the Rudramala are kings of many births, hasn’t it? And they (i.e. the Vijaymala) are said to be queens of many births. Then it is also said that they take one birth as a female and one birth as a male. So, how is it so? How are both the things possible? ....

Baba: When they (i.e. Rudramala) become kings, can’t they become queens?
Student: No, they (the beads of the Vijaymala) are queens of many births….....
Baba: Yes, so when they (the beads of the Rudramala) became kings, can’t they become queens?
Student: Those who become kings for many births are males….
Baba: So, does anyone remain a king for 84 births? He may be a king in one birth and he may also be a prosperous person in some other birth. Does anyone become king in every birth? Anyone does not become a king in every birth?

Time: 07.25-10.50
Student: Baba, in the end all the souls, all the children who are making purusharth (special effort for the soul) will realize as well as feel contended with their parts.

Baba: Yes, this is correct.
Student: What is the easy way to realize it in the purusharthi stage from now itself?
Baba: You will realize only when you become a soul. Until the body consciousness of the present birth, the consciousness of the body is there, how will you know the many births of the soul? When you achieve the soul conscious stage, when you become a seed, then, by looking at the seed you will understand [about] the tree. Now you have not become a seed at all. First you should understand the seed: our seed-form soul is of which category? Whether it is of mango (aam), whether it is of acacia (babool), whether it is of brinjal (baingan)? You do not understand this itself.
Student: To achieve the soul conscious stage easily .....
Baba: Yes. That is why it has been said, When the entire rust of the needle-like soul is removed, you will learn directly from the Father. So, the basic knowledge of remembering the point : we souls are points of light, our Father is a point of light; those who made themselves a point while delighting in this basic knowledge, while remembering [in this way], it is as if their rust was removed; at the basic level (basically). The entire rust was not removed. It was removed at the basic level (basically). They recognize the Father and study the knowledge from the Father. Then the study of advance [knowledge] continues….

We are point souls, we are points of light, our Father is a point of light’, this is general knowledge. But I, a point of light soul belong to which category? This category should be known. Will we first know the category of our Father or of our self? First we should know the category of the Father. So how many categories there are of all those souls who come in the cycle of birth and death, mainly? ? There are 10 categories. One is atheist and the rest are theists, number wise, who believe in God. So, to which category do we belong? It has already been shown in the picture of the [Kalpa] Tree; it has already been mentioned: this is the category of deities; they will have the special virtue of tolerance. This is the category of Kshatriyas (warriors). [They] will certainly have tolerance, but first they will use the power to face. The people of Islam ....

Student: Baba, how will they face? How will they face?
Baba: How does the ocean face the waves? When a cyclone comes, how does the ocean face?
Student: It remains peaceful within.
Baba: It is calm from within, but does it confront or not? High waves of knowledge come; it faces them. Let the cyclone come. What will cyclones do? All the cyclones become calm in front of knowledge........(to be continued).
.....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 08 Feb 2010

वार्तालाप नं.465, औरी, बर्दिया, नेपाल, दिनांक 15.12.07
उद्धरण-भाग-२


समयः 26.14-31. 12
जिज्ञासुः जैसे बाबा ने बोला है मुरली में कि बाप और घर को याद....

बाबा: ....बाप को याद करो, घर को याद करो, स्वर्ग को याद करो।
जिज्ञासु: तो बाप को याद करे और घर जैसे ... शरीर को याद करें, तो ये भी योग माना जायेगा? जैसे जिस शरीर में शिवबाबा...
बाबा: विनाशी को याद करना है या अविनाशी को याद करना है?
जिज्ञासु: अविनाशी को याद करना है।
बाबा: अविनाशी को याद करने से फायदा है और विनाशी को याद करने से तो फायदा नहीं है। तो जिस तन में, मुकर्रर रथ में बाप आते हैं, बाप के रूप में पार्ट बजाते हैं, सदगुरु का पार्ट बजाते हैं वो तन विनाशी है या अविनाशी है? (किसी ने उत्तर दिया।) आप क्यों बोलते हैं?
जिज्ञासु: विनाशी है।
बाबा: विनाशी है! सुनो , ये ज्ञान लिया है अभी। आपका ज्ञान ही अधूरा है अभी। जिस तन में मुकर्रर रथ में बाप पार्ट बजाता है शिव, वो तन विनाशी है या अविनाशी है? (किसी ने फिर से उत्तर दे दिया।) अरे, फिर बोल दिया। मजबूर है आदत से। आप बताइये।
जिज्ञासु: वो तो नर से नारायण बन जाते हैं।
बाबा: तो विनाशी हुआ?
जिज्ञासु: अविनाशी हुआ।
बाबा: फिर? कभी विनाशी बताते हैं, कभी अविनाशी बताते हैं। एक बात पक्की करो ना। जिस तन में बाप आते हैं, शिव बाप वो मुकर्रर रथ विनाशी है या अविनाशी है?
जिज्ञासु: अविनाशी है।
बाबा: तो अविनाशी को याद करने से हम क्या बनेंगे विनाशी बनेंगे या अविनाशी बनेंगे?
जिज्ञासु: अविनाशी बनेंगे।
बाबा: तो याद करना खराब है?
जिज्ञासु: तो यही पूछ रहे हैं...
बाबा: क्यों पूछ रहे हैं? कुछ शक, संशय है तब ही तो पूछ रहे हैं।
जिज्ञासु: जैसे बाबा कहीं-2 बोल देते हैं ना साकार में निराकार को याद करो। बाबा: ठीक है।
जिज्ञासु: तो जैसे साकार में निराकार को याद कर रहे हैं और निराकार याद न आये और साकार को याद करें तो ये योग माना जायेगा?
बाबा: साकार को सिर्फ याद करेंगे तो योग कठिन हो जायेगा थोड़ा। क्या? जो साकार को सिर्फ याद करेंगे तो कठिनाई हो जावेगी। साकार में निराकार को याद करेंगे तो सहज हो जावेगा।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, बोला है केवल खाली साकार को याद करेंगे तो पतित बन पड़ेंगे।
बाबा: नहीं। साकार को याद किया तो उतना पुरुषार्थ ही नहीं कर पायेंगे। क्या? चैतन्य को याद करेंगे या जड़ को याद करेंगे? चैतन्य को निकाल दो, शिव को निकाल दो; अच्छा ब्रह्मा में से शिव को निकाल दो। ब्रह्मा सहनशक्ति धारण कर सकता था? शिव ने प्रवेश किया तब ही तो सहनशक्ति इतनी धारण की। 63 जन्मों में वो सहनशक्ति धारण करके दिखा देता। ऐसे ही राम की आत्मा में से, राम के व्यक्तित्व में से शिव को अलग कर दो। शंकर वाली आत्मा वो कार्य करके दिखा सकेगी? नहीं दिखा सकती। इसलिए अगर सिर्फ साकार को याद किया तो भी ठीक नहीं है। हमारी प्रवृत्ति की याद है या निवृत्ति मार्ग की याद है? (किसी ने कहा: प्रवृत्तिमार्ग।) तो ये भी तो प्रवृत्ति है। आत्मा को भी याद करना और साकार को भी याद करना। अगर आत्मा को निकाल दिया तो वो तो जैसे मुर्दा को याद किया। जिस तन की हम बात कर रहे हैं वो तन अभी सम्पन्न है या अभी बच्चों के संग के रंग में आता है?
जिज्ञासु: संग के रंग में आता है।
बाबा: एक शिव है जो संग के रंग में नहीं आता। बाकी राम वाली आत्मा को संग का रंग लगता है या नहीं लगता है? संग का रंग लगता है तो अवस्था नीचे जायेगी। भल ये बात जरूर है कि सुप्रीम सोल उसमें प्रवेश है इसलिए जल्दी कवर कर लेगा। लेकिन कुछ समय के लिए अवस्था तो नीचे-ऊपर होती है ना? बाप अकेला वापस नहीं जा सकता। जा सकता है? अव्यक्त वाणी में तो बोला है- बापदादा चाहे तो वापस जा सकते हैं लेकिन बच्चों को छोड़ के चले जायेंगे क्या? इसलिए प्रजापिता वाली आत्मा का तो ये पार्ट है कि 500-700 करोड़ जो भी मनुष्यात्मायें हैं, जब तक सारी ही मनुष्यात्मायें सम्पन्न स्टेज न प्राप्त कर ले तब तक वो आत्मा वापस नहीं जा सकती। जिम्मेवारी है उसकी। तो संग के रंग में उसे आना ही पड़ेगा।

समयः 31.15-31.45
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, आत्मिक दृष्टि नहीं बनती, शरीर पे बहुत (दृष्टि) जाता है। क्रोध ज्यादा सताता है। तो उसके लिए बाबा...?

बाबा: तो ऐसे का संग करना शुरु कर दो जिसको क्रोध न आता हो।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा के संग रहे। बाबा: हाँ। बाबा को तो इतना क्रोध आता है कि सारे दुनिया को ही भस्म कर देगा।

Disc.CD No.465, dated 15.12.07 at Auri, Bardia, Nepal
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 26.14-31.12
Student: For example, Baba has said in the Murli , remember the Father and the home….

Baba:...…Remember the Father, remember the home, remember heaven.
Student: So, to remember the Father and the home for example…..if we remember the body, will it be considered to be Yoga as well? For example, the body in which ShivBaba…......
Baba: Should we remember the perishable one or the imperishable one?Student: We have to remember the imperishable one.
Baba: There is benefit in remembering the imperishable one and there is no benefit in remembering the perishable one. So, the body, the permanent Chariot in which the Father plays a part in the form of the Father when He comes, plays the part of a Sadguru; is that body perishable or imperishable? (Someone replied.) Why do you speak?
Student: It is perishable.
Baba: It is perishable! [Just] hear, this is the knowledge that she has obtained [till] now. (To the student :) Your knowledge itself is incomplete now. The body, the permanent Chariot in which the Father Shiv plays a part, is it perishable or imperishable? (Someone replied once again.) Arey, you spoke once again. You are compelled by your habit. (To the student who questioned) please speak.
Student: He transforms from a man to Narayan.
Baba: So, is he perishable?
Student: He is imperishable.
Baba: Then? Sometimes you call him perishable and sometimes you call him imperishable. Be firm about one thing, won’t you? The body in which the Father, the Father Shiv comes, is that permanent Chariot perishable or imperishable?
Student: It is imperishable.
Baba: So, what will we become by remembering the imperishable one, will we become perishable or imperishable?
Student: We will become imperishable.
Baba: So, is it bad to remember?
Student: This is what I am asking….
Baba: Why are you asking? You have some doubt; only then are you asking.
Student: For example, sometimes Baba says ‘remember the incorporeal one within the corporeal one’, doesn’t He?
Baba: It is correct.
Student: If we are remembering the incorporeal one within the corporeal one and if we are unable to remember the incorporeal one and if we remember the corporeal one, will it be considered to be Yoga?
Baba: If we remember just the corporeal one, then Yoga will become a bit difficult. What? It will become difficult if you remember only the corporeal one. If you remember the incorporeal one within the corporeal one, then it will become easy.Student: Baba, it has been said that if we remember only the corporeal one, we will become sinful.
Baba: No. If you remember the corporeal one, you will not be able to do purusharth (special effort for the soul) to that extent at all. What? Will you remember the living one or the non-living one? If you remove the living one, if you remove Shiv; OK, if you remove Shiv from Brahma, could Brahma have been able to inculcate tolerance? He inculcated so much tolerance only when Shiv entered him. [Otherwise] He could have displayed that tolerance in 63 births. Similarly, if you separate Shiv from the soul of Ram, from the personality of Ram, will the soul of Shankar be able to perform that task? It cannot. This is why it is not correct even if you remember just the corporeal one. Is our remembrance a remembrance of the path of household or of the path of renunciation? (Someone said – the path of household.) So, this is also a household. Remember the soul as well as the corporeal one. If you removed the soul then it is as if you remembered the corpse.The body about which we are talking now, is it a perfect body or does he become colored now by the company of the children?
Student: He is influenced by the colour of the company.
Baba: It is [only] one Shiv who is not influenced by the colour of the company. As for the rest, is the soul of Ram coloured by the company or not? When he is coloured by the company, the stage will go down. Although it is true that the Supreme Soul has entered Him, that is why he will cover up soon, but the stage goes up and down for some time, does it not? The Father cannot go back alone. Can He? It has been said in Avyakt Vani, BapDada can go back if they wish. But will they leave the children and go? That is why, it is the role of the soul of Prajapita that until all the 5-7 billion human souls achieve the perfect stage; that soul cannot go back [to the Supreme Abode]. It is his responsibility. So, he will have to come in the colour of the company.

Time: 31.15-31.45
Student: Baba, I am not able to develop a soul conscious vision. (My vision) goes a lot towards the body. Anger troubles me a lot. So Baba, for that ......

Baba: So, start keeping the company of such a person who does not become angry.
Student: Shall I be in Baba’s company?
Baba: Yes. (Jokingly) Baba becomes so angry that he will burn the entire world into ashes…(concluded)
.....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 15 Feb 2010

वार्तालाप नं.466, लखनऊ, दिनांक 17.12.07
उद्धरण-भाग-१


समयः 02.57-05. 24
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, विजयी विश्व तिरंगा प्यारा, झंडा ऊँचा रहे हमारा। किस आधार पर इसका गायन किया गया है?

बाबा: अरे, कपड़े का झंडा विश्व विजय करता है या शरीर रूपी वस्त्र हैं कोई जो विश्व विजय करके दिखलावे? कोई शरीर रूपी वस्त्र हैं जिन्होंने सारे विश्व के ऊपर विजय प्राप्त की। हिट्लर, नेपॉलियन, मुसोलिनी ने नहीं की। बड़े-2 महात्वाकांशी हुए, वो नहीं कर सके। लेकिन ये भारत के तीन शरीर रूपी वस्त्र हैं जो आपस में मिलकरके जब एक हो जाते हैं तो सारे विश्व के ऊपर विजय प्राप्त कर लेते हैं। ब्रह्मा, विष्णु और शंकर। इसलिए हमारा झंडा है त्रिमूर्ति शिव का। एक मूर्ति का नहीं, त्रिमूर्ति शिव। तीन मूर्तियाँ चाहिए और शरीर छोड़ने वाली और सूक्ष्मवतनवासी नहीं या निराकार नहीं कि 32 किरणें दिखा दो और 32 गुण दिखाय दिये जाए। गुण साकार के होते हैं या निराकार के होते हैं? (सभी: साकार के।) निराकार को तो कहा ही जाता है निर्गुण। तो त्रिमूर्ति शिव का हमारा झंडा है यादगार। वो कपड़े के झंडे तो चाहे जितने कोई लगा दे अपने-2 मकान के ऊपर। लेकिन झंडा ऊँचा वास्तव में किसका करना है? इन तीन चैतन्य मूर्तियों का झंडा ऊँचा करना है, इनका नाम बाला करना है संसार में, जो सारे विश्व के ऊपर विजय प्राप्त करने के निमित्त बनती है और बनाती है।

समयः 06.06-07.45
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, अभी बाबा ने कहा न शिव मन्दिरों में जाओ, लक्ष्मी-नारायण के मन्दिरों में जाओ और वहाँ जाकर सेवा करो। लेकिन साथ में ये भी कहा है कि ये ब्रह्मा का पार्ट है शूद्रों को बाह्मण, प्रजा क्वॉलिटी निकालना तो क्या ये जो पार्ट है, हम लोग एडवांस पार्टी वाले शिव मन्दिरों, लक्ष्‍मी- नारायण मन्दिरों में जाके सेवा कर सकते हैं?

बाबा: कौनसे मन्दिरों में जाके?
जिज्ञासु: शिव मन्दिर और लक्ष्मी-नारायण का मन्दिर कहा ना?
बाबा: हद के, बेहद के?
जिज्ञासु: बेहद के मन्दिर, तो क्‍या सेंटर्स हुए ब्रह्माकुमारीज के।
बाबा: ब्रह्माकुमारी सेंटर वो मन्दिर है? वहाँ लक्ष्मी-नारायण बैठे हैं कोई युगल? जहाँ भी कोई कुमार बैठा हुआ है कमरे में और ईश्वरीय ज्ञान में चल रहा है, एडवांस में चल रहा है वो किसका मन्दिर है? वो शिव का मन्दिर है। (जिज्ञासु: पांडव भवन हो गया...।) हाँ, पांडव भवन कहो, शिव मन्दिर कहो। वहाँ जाने आने वाले जो भी कुमार इकठ्ठे होते हैं, जो भी भाई बहन इकठ्ठे होते हैं उनको सुनायेंगे तो उनकी बुद्धि में बैठेगा और गीता पाठशालायें माना लक्ष्मी-नारायण के मन्दिर।
जिज्ञासु: फिर वो घेराव के लिए बोला है अभी।
बाबा: घेराव डालो माना जितनी ज्यादा गीतापाठशालायें खोलेंगे, जितने ज्यादा मिनी मधुबन बनावेंगे, उतना घेराव पड़ता जावेगा, आवाज निकलेगी। फिर तुम्हारा पाला ऊँचा हो जावेगा।
जिज्ञासु: सेंटरों में डायरेक्ट तो नहीं जाना है ना?
बाबा: वो बड़े-2 शंकराचार्यों के मठ है या मन्दिर हैं? वो तो मठ बनाये हुए हैं। वो तुम्हारी बातें थोड़े ही सुनने देंगे।

समयः 07.53-08.16
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये ब्रह्माकुमारियाँ क्यों तांत्रिक, भूतों का आसरा लेकरके बाबा का सामना करती हैं?

बाबा: जिनको भगवान नहीं मिलेगा तो भूतों का ही आसरा लेगा या किसका लेगा? जिसको भगवान मिल जाये वो भूतों का आसरा क्यों लेगा?

Disc.CD No.466, dated 17.12.07 at Lucknow
Extracts-Part-1


Time: 02.57-05.24
Student: Baba, ‘vijayi vishwa tiranga pyara, jhanda ooncha rahe hamara’ (let our beloved tricolour gain victory over the world; may this flag be held high). On what basis has it been praised?

Baba: Arey, does a cloth flag gain victory over the world or are there some cloths like bodies, who gain victory over the world? There are some cloth like bodies, who gained victory over the entire world. Hitler, Napoleon, Mussolini did not [conquer the world]. There were great ambitious people, they could not [conquer the world]. But these are three cloths like bodies of India, when they unite; they gain victory over the entire world. [They are] Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar. This is why our flag is of Trimurti Shiv. Not of one murty (personality), but Trimurti Shiv. Three personalities are required and they should not be the ones who leave the body or are Subtle Region dwellers or are incorporeal, around which you show 32 rays corresponding to 32 virtues. Does a corporeal person have virtues or does an incorporeal one have virtues? (Everyone said – the corporeal one). The incorporeal one is anyhow called nirgun (unqualified one who does not have either virtues or vices). So, our flag of Trimurti Shiv is a memorial. Someone may display any number of those cloth flags over their house, but whose flag should be hoisted high in reality? The flag of these three living personalities should be hoisted high, they should be made famous in the world, the ones who become instruments in gaining victory over the entire world and in enabling others [to gain victory].

Time: 06.06-07.45
Student: Baba, just now Baba said, go to the temples of Shiv, temples of Lakshmi-Narayan and do service there. But at the same time it has also been said it is Brahma’s part to transform Shudras to Brahmins, to bring up subject quality (praja) souls; so, can we, the ones in the Advance Party play this part, [can we] go and serve in the temples of Shiv, in the temples of Lakshmi-Narayan?

Baba: Which temples?
Student: It was said about the temples of Shiv and temples of Lakshmi-Narayan, wasn’t it?
Baba: Are you talking [about the temples] in a limited sense or in an unlimited sense?
Student: Temples in an unlimited sense, so, is it about the centers of Brahmakumaris?
Baba: Are those Brahmakumaris centers temples? Are there any Lakshmi-Narayan like couples sitting there? Wherever a Kumar (an unmarried male) is sitting in a room and is following the Godly knowledge, the advance [knowledge]; whose temple is it? That is a temple of Shiv.
Student: It is a Pandav Bhavan (the place where only males stay).....
Baba: Yes, call it a Pandav Bhavan, call it a temple of Shiv, all the Kumars who visit there , all the brothers and sisters who gather there; if you narrate to them, it will sit in their intellect and Gitapathshalas means temples of Lakshmi-Narayan.
Student: Then, it has been said about laying siege.
Baba: ‘Lay siege’ means that the more Gitapathshalas you open, the more mini madhubans you establish, the more siege will be laid, the voice will spread. Then your side of the balance will move higher.
Student: We should not go directly to the [BK] centers, should we?
Baba: Are there math (place of residence of disciples or devotees) or are they temples of great Shankaracharyas? They have made math. They will not allow others (their devotees and disciples) to listen to you.

Time: 07.53-08.16
Student: Baba, why do these Brahmakumaris take the support of tantriks (a person versed in tantric knowledge), ghosts to confront ShivBaba?

Baba: Will those who do not find God take the support of ghosts or of anyone else? Why will the one who has found God take the support of ghosts?
.....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 16 Feb 2010

वार्तालाप नं.466, लखनऊ, दिनांक 17.12.07
उद्धरण-भाग-२


समयः 10.29-13.22
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, 33 करोड़ देवी देवताओं में 10 करोड़ देवी देवता बाप से प्राप्ति करते हैं बाकी जो 23 करोड़ है वो कैसे प्राप्ति करते हैं माना जैसे हद और बेहद में कैसे मतलब क्या है?

बाबा: 21 जन्मों की प्राप्ति कराने वाला बाप कौन है? शिव बाप। वो श्रेष्ठता की ही प्राप्ति कराता है। लेकिन एक बेहद का बाप ऐसा भी है जो स्वर्ग की दुनिया का भी मालिक है तो नर्क की दुनिया का भी मालिक है, वो कौन है? प्रजापिता, मनुष्य सृष्टि का बाप। जैसे और धर्मपितायें हैं अपनी-2 प्रजा के पिता है। ऐसे ये भी अपनी प्रजा का पिता हैं।
जिज्ञासु: तो इसको हम डायरेक्ट नहीं बोल सकते ?
बाबा: क्या?
जिज्ञासु: कि हम शिवबाबा से प्राप्ति कर रहे हैं?
बाबा: शिव जिसका नाम है वो कल्याणकारी प्राप्ति ही कराता है या अकल्याणकारी 21 जन्मों के अलावा भी प्राप्ति कराने का निमित्त है? वो तो कल्याणकारी ही बनाता है। 21 जन्मों की प्राप्ति का शिव है निमित्त और बाकी वो जिसमें प्रवेश करता है वो तो सबका बाप है। असुरों का भी बाप है और देवताओं का भी बाप है। तो 63 जन्म जो राजाईयाँ स्थापन हुई हैं; हुई हैं या नहीं हुई हैं? या ईब्राहिम के आने से ही राजाई स्थापन हो जाती है? बुद्ध या क्राईस्ट के आने से ही राजाई स्थापन हो जाती है क्या? नहीं। उनमें शिफ्त ही नहीं है राजाई या राजधानी स्थापन करने की। इसलिए जो मनुष्य सृष्टि का पिता है वो ही सारी मनुष्य़ सृष्टि को, कोई धर्म की आत्मा हो उनका फाऊंडेशन डालने के निमित्त बनती है।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा दोनों को खुश कर देते हैं मतलब। देवी देवताओं को भी खुश कर देते हैं , इधर असुरों को भी खुश कर देते हैं।
बाबा: क्‍या?
जिज्ञासु: दोनों को ही प्राप्ति कराते हैं।
बाबा: बताया ना। जो श्रेष्ठ देवतायें हैं वो तो सतयुग त्रेता में ही है लेकिन देवता धर्म को फॉलो करने वाली और जो आत्मायें है 23 करोड़, उनको प्राप्ति किससे होती है? प्रजापिता से।

समयः 13.25-14. 36
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, पुरुषार्थ अनुसार 21 जन्म मिलते हैं, जैसे पुरुषार्थ किया जाता हैं संगमयुग पर और फिर बताते है कि उसके आगे जो 63 जन्म भी उसी पुरुषार्थ अनुसार ही मिलते हैं क्या?

बाबा: 21 जन्म जो प्राप्ति होती है वो प्राप्ति करने के लिए जो हमने पुरुषार्थ किया है और पुरुषार्थ करने के लिए जो प्रैक्टिस की है वो प्रैक्टिस का माद्दा 63 जन्म में काम आता है। जिसने यहाँ 21 जन्मों की प्राप्ति के लिए तीव्र पुरुषार्थ किया है, तीव्र पुरुषार्थी के संस्कार जिसके अन्दर भर गये वो 63 जन्मों में भी कैसा पुरुषार्थ करेगा? तीव्र पुरुषार्थ ही करेगा। तप कर राज, राज कर नरका। फिर तप कर राज, राज कर नरका। एक ही जन्म में सिपाही से सम्राट बन सकता है, अगर तीव्र पुरुषार्थ करने के संस्कार यहाँ पैदा कर लिए तो। कहाँ? संगमयुग में।

समयः 14.40-16.03
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, हरा रंग और नीला रंग विषैला बताया है, इसका मतलब समझाईये ना।

बाबा: इब्राहिम को झाड़ के चित्र में हरा झाबा पहने हुए दिखाया गया है। रामलीला दिखाते हैं या कृष्ण लीला दिखाते हैं तो असुरों की सेना को काला या नीला रंग पहनाते हैं। वैसे भी भांति-2 के सर्प होते हैं और उनका जो विष होता है वो भी इन्हीं रंगों का होता है। या हरा होता है, या नीला होता है, या काला होता है। तो इसलिए तीन रंग दिखाये जाते हैं। विषियस दुनिया कलियुग में भी यही रंग दिखाया जाता है। वैसे भी कहते हैं सावन में जो अन्धा हो जाता है आदमी उसको क्या दिखाई पड़ता है बाद में? चारों ओर हरा ही हरा दिखाई पड़ता है।

समयः 16.06-17.08
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, मधुबन में एक महिला ने बाबा से मिलने के बाद उसने अपने कमरे में जाके आत्माहत्या कर ली थी। तो ऐसा क्यों उसने किया बाबा?

बाबा: बाबा से मिलने के बाद आत्‍महत्‍या...?
जिज्ञासु: मधुबन में गई और मिली, उसी टाईम सभी लोग बैठे थे क्लास में...
बाबा: कहाँ?
जिज्ञासु: मधुबन में, वहाँ माउंट आबू में। वो फिर अपने कमरे में गई, रस्सी बान्ध के और उसने आत्माहत्या कर लिया।
बाबा: तो क्या हुआ?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं कह रहे है, कैसे हुआ, भगवान के घर में ऐसा क्यों?
बाबा: अरे, भगवान, भगवान कोई सूक्ष्म शरीरधारी होता है क्या? भगवान औरतों में प्रवेश करता है क्या?
जिज्ञासु: बाबा हम तो सुबह-2 पुलिस देखे तो डर गये कि ऐसा क्यों हुआ।
बाबा: तुम तो बुद्धि में तो सोचो भगवान को कभी औरत के रूप में दिखाया है? (जिज्ञासु: नहीं।) फिर? भूत प्रेत होते हैं वो हत्या करते हैं, आपघात करते हैं, पापकर्म करते हैं तो उनको सूक्ष्म शरीर मिलता है, सूक्ष्म शरीर के बन्धन में बन्धना पड़ता है।

समयः 22.15-23.00
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जैसे क्रिश्च्यन धर्म का गुण बताया है ठंडा क्रोधी। अगर कोई आत्मा एडवांस में चलती है और उसके अन्दर ये लक्षण दिखाई देते हैं तो क्या वो क्रिश्च्यन धर्म की आत्मा है या कनवर्ट हुई आत्मा है?

बाबा: थोड़े समय के लिए वो लक्षण दिखाई देते हैं और ज्ञान और योग के फोर्स से फिर वो गायब हो जाते हैं तो कौनसे धर्म की हुई? (सभी: कनवर्ट हुई।) तो वो कनवर्ट हो गई ना?
जिज्ञासु: तो थोड़े समय के लिए कनवर्ट हुई होगी या ज्यादा समय के लिए?
बाबा: वो तो जितना लम्बे समय वो लक्षण दिखाई दे उतना लम्बे समय शूटिंग हो रही है। जब वो लक्षण गायब हो जाये तो खत्म।

Disc.CD No.466, dated 17.12.07 at Lucknow
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 10.29-13.22
Student: Baba, among 33 crore (330 million) deities, 10 crore (100 million) deities make attainments from the Father. How do the remaining 23 crore [deity souls] make attainments, i.e. how does it happen in a limited and an unlimited sense?

Baba: Which Father enables you to make attainments for 21 births? The Father Shiv. He enables you to make the attainment of righteousness only. But there is one such Father in an unlimited sense too, who is the master of the world of heaven as well as the world of hell; who is he? Prajapita, the Father of the human world. For example, the other religious fathers are the fathers of their subjects. Similarly, this one also is the Father of subjects (praja).
Student: So, can’t we call it direct [attainments]?
Baba: What?
Student: That we are making attainments from ShivBaba?
Baba: The one whose name is Shiv, does He enable only beneficial attainments or is He instrumental in enabling harmful attainments during the births other than the 21 births too? He makes [the attainments] only benevolent. Shiv is instrumental for the attainments of 21 births and the one in whom He enters is everybody’s Father. He is the Father of demons as well as deities. So, the kingships which were established in 63 births; have they been established or not? Or is the kingship established just by the arrival of Abraham? Is the kingship established just by the arrival of Buddha and Christ? No. They do not have the qualification at all to establish kingship or the capital. This is why, the Father of the human world becomes instrumental in laying the foundation of the entire human world; be it the soul belonging to any religion.
Student: Baba, it means that he pleases both of them. He pleases the deities as well as the demons.
Baba: What?
Student: He enables both to make attainments.
Baba: It was said [just now], wasn’t it? The righteous deities are only in the Golden Age and the Silver Age, but from who do the other 23 crore souls who follow the Deity religion make attainments? From Prajapita.

Time: 13.25-14.36
Student: Baba, we receive 21 births as per our purusharth ), according to the purusharth that we do in the Confluence Age and then as it is said, do we receive the next 63 births on the basis of the same purusharth ?

Baba: Whatever purusharth we have done to make attainments for 21 births and whatever practice we have done for doing that purusharth; that level of practice proves useful for us in the 63 births. The one who has made fast purusharth for the attainments of 21 births, the one who has recorded the sanskars of making fast purusharth here, what kind of purusharth will he do even in the 63 births? He will certainly do fast purusharth. Tap kar raj, raj kar narka (when we do tapasya, we become kings and kingship leads to hell). Then the cycle repeats again . If someone develops the sanskars of making fast purusharth here, he can change from a soldier to an emperor (samrat) in the same birth. Where? In the Confluence Age.

Time: 14.40-16.03
Student: Baba, green and blue colour is said to be poisonous; please explain its meaning, will you?

Baba: Abraham has been shown to be wearing a green dress in the picture of the [Kalpa] Tree. When Ramleela (enact of story of Ramayana) or Krishna leela(enact of story of acts of Krishna) is depicted, the army of demons is shown to be wearing black or blue [dress]. As such, there are different types of snakes and their poison is also of these colours. It is either green or blue or black. So, three colours are depicted. The same colour is depicted in the Iron Age vicious world too. Even otherwise, it is said, what does the one who becomes blind in spring see later on? He sees greenery everywhere.

Time: 16.06-17.08
Student: Baba, after meeting Baba at Madhuban (Mount Abu), a woman went to her room and committed suicide. So Baba, why did she do so?

Baba: Committed suicide after meeting Baba…?
Student: She went to Madhuban, met [Baba] and at that time everyone was sitting in the class…
Baba: Where?
Student: At Madhuban, at Mt. Abu . She then went to her room, tied herself with a rope [around the neck] and committed suicide [by hanging].
Baba: So what happened?
Student: No, I mean to say, how and why did this happen in God’s home?
Baba: Arey, does God have a subtle body? Does God enter women?
Student: Baba, when we saw police early in the morning we were frightened [thinking] why did it happen?
Baba: Just think, has God ever been shown in the form of a female? (Student: No). Then? Ghosts and spirits murder, make accidents happen, commit sins; so they receive subtle bodies; they have to become bound in the bondage of subtle body.

Time: 22.15-23.00
Student: Baba, for example, the specialty of Christian religion is said to be cold anger. If a soul is following advance [knowledge] and if these features are observed in him , is it a soul belonging to Christianity or is it a converted soul?

Baba: Those features are seen for some time and then they vanish due to the force of knowledge and Yoga; so, it belongs to which religion? (Everyone: It converted). So, it converted, didn’t it?
Student: So, would it have converted for some time or for more time?
Baba: The longer those features are observed, the longer that shooting continues. When that feature vanishes, then it ends….(to be continued)
.....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 17 Feb 2010

वार्तालाप नं.466, लखनऊ, दिनांक 17.12.07
उद्धरण-भाग-३


समयः 23.01-24.15
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, जैसे मान लो कोई श्रीमत के बरखिलाफ बात है, उसके विपरीत है लेकिन हम श्रीमत मान कर उसको चलते हैं तो क्या वो भक्तिमार्ग की शूटिंग है?

बाबा: श्रीमत के ऊपर चलने वाले को भक्तिमार्ग कहा जाता है?
जिज्ञासु: जैसे कोई एडवांस में चल रहा है लेकिन वो भक्तिमार्ग की बात कर रहा है, हम उसको मान लें तो वो भक्ति माना जायेगा या...
बाबा: हम भक्तिमार्ग की बात को क्यों स्वीकार करें जबकि भक्तिमार्ग को मुर्दाबाद करना है?
जिज्ञासु: ....कुछ नहीं बोलना है?
बाबा: कुछ नहीं बोलें माना एक कान से सुना दूसरे कान से निकाल दिया। हम नहीं ध्यान देते, याद भी नहीं करते उसने क्या कहा, जानते हैं फालतू बक-2 कर रहा है। तो भक्तिमार्ग की हम क्यों शूटिंग कर रहे हैं? साक्षी हो करके उसकी बात सुन ली, जानते हैं अन्दर से - ये भक्तिमार्ग मुर्दाबाद होने वाला है। अगर नहीं अन्दर समा सकते हैं, बार-2 याद आती है तो बाप को बता दो।

समयः 24.18-25.39
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, एक पत्नी चलती हो ज्ञान में और पति चलता हो भक्ति में, तो दोनों में खट-पट होती है तो क्या किया जाये?

बाबा: हिसाब-किताब पूरे किये जायें। 63 जन्म में उसने अच्छा काम किया होगा, उस आत्मा ने और हमने विघ्न डाला होगा तो वो हिसाब-किताब पूरा नहीं होगा? हम तो फायदे में ही हैं। वहाँ हमने बुरा काम किया भक्तिमार्ग में। उसने हमको रोका। है ना? तो हमने बुरा काम किया उस समय, हमारा एक गुना पाप चढ़ा। चढ़ा कि नहीं? और अब हम है यहाँ संगमयुग में। अगर वो हमारा ऑपोजिशन करता है और हम भी उसका ऑपोजिशन करें तो 100 गुना हमारा चढ़ जायेगा। इसलिए बड़े प्यार से हिसाब-किताब पूरा करते रहे। अरे, हम तो हल्के हो रहे हैं।

जिज्ञासु: बाबा, उसका 1 गुना रहेगा, ज्ञानी का 100 गुना हो जायेगा
बाबा: ज्ञान में चल रहा है, कह रहा है हमको भगवान मिला है तो जानकार है ना।

समयः 25.40-26.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कोई बार-2 परेशान कर रहा है तो क्या करें?

बाबा: परेशान वो होता है जो आत्मिक स्थिति की शान में नहीं रहता। जो सदैव आत्मिक स्थिति की शान में रहने वाला है उसको कोई परेशान नहीं कर सकता। देहभान में रहने वाले को परेशानी होती है।

समयः 29.17-31.40
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, बाबा ने बताया हैं कि एक दो महीना पर भी कोई बच्‍चा लेटर नहीं लिखता है तो समझो मर गया। अगर वो बच्चा डेली मुरली क्लास करता है, महीना में रोज के संगठन में जाता है उसके लिए भी लागू होता है या संगठन में न जाए, क्‍लास न करे, उसके लिए ही

बाबा: मुरली पढ़ता है, वो तो घर में बैठ करके पढ़ता है लेकिन बाप साकार में हैं या आकारी और निराकारी है? (सभी: साकारी।) तो कनेक्शन है या नहीं। कनेक्शन है तो कनेक्शन का सबूत क्या है?
जिज्ञासु: ....चिठ्ठी नहीं लिखता है, फोन नहीं करता है लेकिन संगठन में जाता है, रोज क्‍लास करता है, बाबा आने के समय मिलता है...।
बाबा: हाँ तो संगठन का कागज़ नहीं पहुँचता है हेड ऑफिस में?
जिज्ञासु: वही हो जाता है ना बाबा।
बाबा: तो संगठन का कागज़ पहुँचता है, उससे ही पता लग जाता है कि हाँ, कनेक्शन में हैं, परिवार के कनेक्शन में हैं।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, संगठन का जो कागज बोला गया है अभी; तो जैसे कि ये रजिस्टर है गीता पाठशाला का, तो वहाँ साईन सारे करते हैं। अलग कागज तो कोई कर नहीं रहा है अभी।
बाबा: अलग कागज़ पर करने की दरकार क्या है? जो गीतापाठशाला का रजिस्टर है, उसी में संगठन के साईन है, उसी को फोटो स्टेट करके हेड ऑफिस में भेज दो।

जिज्ञासु: संगठन के दिन का?
बाबा: हाँ जी।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, हफ्ता वाला कि महीना वाला?
बाबा: कोई भी संगठन हो। सप्ताह का हो, 15 दिन का हो, महीने का हो, त्रैमासिक हो।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा ने एक बार कहा था कि गीता पाठशालाओं का पोतामेल, हिसाब-किताब जो है वो पर मंथली (per - monthly) जाने से ही वो सच्ची गीतापाठशाला होती है, लेकिन अभी देखा गया है कि गीता पाठशालाओं में ऐसा हिसाब-किताब नहीं लिख रहा है कोई भी।
बाबा: जो जितना करता है वैसा पाता है। बाबा तो सभी से कहते हैं अपना पोतामेल लिखो: कितना याद किया, कितना पाप कर्म किया, कितना किसको दु:ख दिया। अब कोई करता है, कोई नहीं करता है। जो करेगा सो पायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, गीता पाठशाला वालों को पोतामेल तो देना जरूरी है मतलब हर महीने का पूरा चार्ट लिख के देना जरूरी है?
बाबा: अरे, देगा अपने लिए देगा, नहीं देगा अपने लिए नहीं देगा। इसमें जरूरी क्या होता है? वो अपने को बाप का बच्चा समझता होगा तो मुरली में तो बोला हुआ है कि बच्चे का पूरा हिसाब-किताब बाप के पास आना चाहिए।

Disc.CD No.466, dated 17.12.07 at Lucknow
Extracts-Part-3


Time: 23.01-24.15
Student: Baba, suppose there is something against Shrimat but we consider it to be Shrimat and follow it, then is it performing shooting of Bhaktimarg (the path of devotion)?

Baba: Is following Shrimat called the path of Bhakti?
Student: Suppose someone is following the advance [knowledge] but he is talking about the path of Bhakti, and if we accept it, will it be considered path of Bhakti or…..
Baba: Why should we accept the topics of Bhaktimarg when Bhaktimarg is to be condemned?
Student:........should we not say anything?
Baba: ‘We should not say anything’ means ‘we listened through one ear and removed it through the other’. We do not pay attention; we do not even remember what he said ; we know that he is speaking wasteful things . So, how will we be performing the shooting of the path of Bhakti? We heard his words being (in the stage of) a witness; we know from within that this Bhaktimarg is going to be condemned. If you cannot assimilate within yourself if it comes to your mind again and again, tell it to the Father.

Time: 24.18-25.39
Student: Baba, if the wife is following the path of knowledge and if the husband is following the path of Bhakti, and if both of them clash, what should be done?

Baba: The karmic accounts should be settled. That soul (i.e. husband) must have performed noble actions in 63 births and we (i.e. wife) would have created obstacles [for him], will that account not be settled? We are anyhow in profit. We performed bad deeds there, in the path of Bhakti and he stopped us [from doing it], did he not? So, we performed bad deed at that time, we accumulated one time sins. Did we or did we not? But now we are in the Confluence Age. If he opposes us, and if we too oppose him, then we will accumulate 100 times sins. This is why we should continue to clear our karmic accounts lovingly. Arey, we are becoming light.
Student: Baba, will it (accumulation of sins) be one time for him (the one who is not in knowledge), will it become 100 times for the knowledgeable person.
Baba: If he is following the path of knowledge and if he is saying: we have found God, then he knows, doesn’t he?

Time: 25.40-26.10
Student: Baba, what should we do if someone troubles us again and again?

Baba: The one who does not remain in the (shaan) state of soul consciousness becomes troubled (pareshan). The one who always remains in the state of soul consciousness cannot be troubled by anyone. The one who remains in body consciousness feels troubled.

Time: 29.17-31.40
Student: Baba, Baba has said that if a child does not write a letter [to Baba] even for one or two months, then consider that the child has died. Does it apply to the child even when he attends the Murli class daily, attends the monthly sangathan (gathering) regularly or is it applicable only for the one who doesn’t attend the sangathan, doesn’t attend the class?

Baba: If he reads Murli, he reads it at his home, but is the Father corporeal, or is He subtle or incorporeal? (Everyone said – corporeal). So, is there a connection or not? If there is a connection; what is the proof of the connection?
Student: If he does not write a letter, does not make a phone call (talk through phone with Baba), but goes to the gathering, attends the class daily, meets Baba when he comes ...
Baba: Yes, so, doesn’t the [attendance] paper of the gathering reach the head office?
Student: Baba, that itself is the proof, isn’t it?
Baba: So, when the [attendance] paper of the gathering reaches [the head office], it will be known from that itself: yes, he is in connection [with Baba], he is in connection with the [Godly] family.
Student: Baba, the [attendance] paper of the sangathan (gathering) which was mentioned now; for example, there is a register of the Gita pathshala (the school of the Gita); every one signs in it. Nobody is signing on a separate paper now.
Baba: What is the need to sign on a separate paper? The signatures of the [ones attending the] gathering are in the Gita pathshala’s register. Take a photocopy of it and send it to the head office.
Student: Of the day of the gathering (sangathan)?
Baba: Yes.
Student: Baba, [should it be] of the weekly sangathan or the monthly sangathan?
Baba: Whichever sangathan it is; whether it is weekly, whether it is fortnightly, whether it is monthly or whether it is quarterly.
Student: Baba had once said that a Gita pathshala is a true Gita pathshala only when the potamail, the account of the Gitapathshalas is submitted per-monthly, but now it has been observed that no one writes such accounts in the Gita pathshalas.
Baba: Whoever does to whatever extent achieves to that extent. Baba tells everyone, write your potamail: how much did I remember, how many sins I committed, how much sorrow did I give to whom. Well, some do (write potamail) and some do not. Whoever does will achieve [the results].
Student: It is necessary for those who run Gita pathshala to give potamail, i.e. is it necessary to submit the complete monthly chart?

Baba: Arey, if he gives, he will give for himself, if he does not give, he will not give for himself. Where is the question of necessity in this? If he considers himself to be the Father’s child, then it has been said in Murli that the entire account of the child should reach the Father ....(to be continued)
.....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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arjun
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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 18 Feb 2010

वार्तालाप नं.466, लखनऊ, दिनांक 17.12.07
उद्धरण-भाग-४


समयः 37.37-44.06
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, मुरली में बोला है कि नई दुनिया में आना जाना करते हो तो कहां की बात है?

बाबा: किनसे बोला है?
जिज्ञासु: बच्चों से।
बाबा: कौनसे बच्चों को बोला है? (किसी ने कहा – अष्‍ट देवों से।) तो जिनको बोला है वो आना जाना करते होंगे।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, बाकी नहीं करेंगे क्या आना जाना?
बाबा: ‘करेंगे’ ये थोड़े ही कहा। ये कहा ‘करते हो’।
जिज्ञासु: अष्‍ट देवों के जो बाहर है, उस गिनती में नहीं है, क्या वो आना-जाना नहीं कर सकते?
बाबा: अगर अष्‍ट देव के बराबर के गिनती में हैं तो या तो अष्‍ट देवों में से उनकी प्रजा होंगे। जो अष्‍ट देव हैं वो राजा क्वॉलीटी की आत्मायें हैं या प्रजा क्वॉलिटी की आत्मायें हैं? राजा क्वॉलिटी की आत्मायें हैं। जो अष्‍ट देव राजा क्वॉलिटी की आत्मायें हैं वो सब एक जैसे हैं या उनमें भी नम्बरवार है? (सभी: नम्बरवार हैं।) तो उनमें जो नम्बरवार हैं उनमें पहले नम्बर का जो होगा वो पहले नई दुनिया बनायेगा या सब नई दुनिया एक साथ बनायेंगे? पहले नम्बर वाला पहले अपना संगठन तैयार कर लेगा, प्योरिटी से युनिटी बना लेगा। तो जिसकी जो दुनिया बन गई वो तो अन्दर ही रहेंगे या बाहर निकलेंगे? वो तो अन्दर रहेंगे। बाकी जो 7 हैं वो आना-जाना करते होंगे।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, ये जो अष्‍ट देव बोला है अभी, वो अपनी दुनिया बनायेगा या प्रजा बनायेगा?
बाबा: वहाँ तक बुद्धि ही नहीं पहुँचती है।
जिज्ञासु: नहीं-2 राजा जो है, वो औरों को बनायेगा ना? तो क्या पहचान है कि ये प्रजा है उसकी? राजा की प्रजा कौन है, क्या है ये तो बताईये ना।
बाबा: वही-2 बात फिर दुबारा बैठके बताओ। अष्‍ट देव हैं तो वो एक ही धर्म से कनेक्टेड हैं या सब अलग-2 धर्मों में जाके आखिरी जन्म में गिरते हैं? अलग-2 धर्मों में गिरते हैं। तो जो जिस धर्म से ज्यादा कनेक्टेड है वो नम्बरवार ही पुरुषार्थ करेगा कि सब एक जैसे पुरुषार्थ करेंगे? नम्बरवार पुरुषार्थ करेंगे। उनमें कोई अव्वल नम्बर होगा या नहीं पुरुषार्थी? तो जो अव्वल नम्बर पुरुषार्थी होगा वो अव्वल नम्बर पुरुषार्थी बाप के ज्यादा नजदीक होगा या दूर होगा औरों के मुकाबले? और सप्त देवों के मुकाबले? ज्यादा नजदीक होगा। जो ज्यादा नजदीक होगा बाप के, वो पहले अपना संगठन तैयार कर लेगा या दूसरे तैयार कर लेंगे?
जिज्ञासु: बाबा ये जो अष्‍ट देव है ना बाबा वो तो अनेक धर्मों के नहीं होते, एक ही सूर्यवंशी होते हैं ना?
बाबा: एक ही सूर्यवंशी होते हैं लेकिन आखिरी जन्म में अलग-2 धर्मों में जाके गिरते हैं या नहीं? गिर जाते हैं। इसका मतलब उनका उस धर्म से विशेष कनेक्शन रहा ना? तब तो वहाँ जाके गिरे, वहाँ जाके नाक रगडी़। वो लगाव साबित होता है ना, विशेष? तो वो ही धर्म की आत्मायें जो हैं, अलग-2 धर्म की आत्मायें 83 जन्म तो सूर्यवंशी पुरुषार्थ में रहती है, बाकी आखरी जन्म में उनको माया गिराय देती है। तो एक जन्म का जो पुरुषार्थ है वो नीचा हो जाता है। 83 जन्म तो सूर्यवंशी बन के रहे, सूर्य के फॉलोवर रहे, सूर्य के सहयोगी रहे, आखरी जन्म में माया ने उनको गिरा दिया। तो उनमें जो कैटेगिरी है इनकी एक ही है या सबकी अलग-2 कैटेगिरी हो जाती है? अलग-2 कैटेगिरी हो जाती है। तो वो जो भी अष्‍ट देवतायें हैं उनमें अव्वल नम्बर भी कोई होगा या नहीं होगा? (जिज्ञासु: होगा।) जो अव्वल नम्बर होगा वो बाप के नजदीक होगा या नहीं होगा? (जिज्ञासु: नजदीक होगा।) जो बाप के सबसे नजदीक होगा उसका संगठन पहले तैयार हो जायेगा। संगठन तैयार होता है तो जो संगठन में रहते हैं वो अन्दर रहेंगे या बाहर रहेंगे? अन्दर रहेंगे। और बाकी सात? बाकी सात बाहर होंगे।
जिज्ञासु: तो बाहर वाले संगठन के अन्दर नहीं है क्‍या?
बाबा: ‘आना-जाना’ का मतलब क्या है? अरे, अष्‍ट देवतायें हैं, जन्म-जन्मांतर वो राजायें बनेंगे तो क्या एक ही राजाई में घुसे रहेंगे या अलग-2 राजाईयाँ होंगी उनकी अपनी? अलग-2 राजाईयाँ होंगी। उन्हीं में आना-जाना करते होंगे। जो ज्यादा मर्तबे वाला होगा उससे ज्यादा कनेक्टेड होंगे। (जिज्ञासु – इसी को आना-जाना कहते है?) हाँ।
जिज्ञासु: ....तो क्या वो सारे सनातन धर्म के बीज है या और भी धर्मों के बीज इकठ्ठा है वहाँ पर?
बाबा: हो सकता है अगर और धर्मों के बीज होंगे तो वो बाद में प्रत्यक्ष हो जायेंगे। अभी तो फाउंडेशन पड़ रहा है। जब नींव खोदी जाती है मकान की, खोदी जाती है नींव, तो नींव में पत्थर डाले जाते हैं। डाले जाते हैं ना? धचाका मारा जाता है। तो कोई पत्थर इधर उधर खिसक जाता है कि नहीं खिसक जाता है? (सभी: खिसक जाते हैं।) तो जो खिसकने वाले होंगे वो खिसक जायेंगे। (किसी ने कहा – जिनको जमना है, वो जम जायेंगे।) हाँ, जो जाम होने वाले होंगे वो जाम हो जायेंगे। (किसी ने कहा – अभी तो फाउंडेशन चल रहा है।) हाँ, उनकी क्या चिंता? फाउंडेशन पड़ रहा है। अभी स्वर्ग थोड़े ही बन गया है, एड होते जा रहे हैं।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, नये संगठन में क्‍या सिर्फ कन्यायें ही जा सकती है या मातायें, भाई , सब लोग नये संगठन में जा सकते हैं?
बाबा: भाई लोगों को तो दुर्योधन दुःशासन बता दिया सो? उसमें बैल भी घुसेड देंगे तो क्या हाल होगा?
जिज्ञासु: तो मातायें भी जा सकती है?
बाबा: क्यों नहीं जा सकती है? अच्छा पार्ट बजायेंगी तो क्यों नहीं जायेंगी?
जिज्ञासु: पुरुषार्थ अनुसार, बाबा?
बाबा: हाँ-2 जो जायेंगी वो वही जायेंगी जो जाने योग्य होंगी।

समयः 44.08-44.53
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, पिछले कल्प में कोई भी आत्मा जिस तरह का पार्ट बजाती रहती है आने वाले कल्प में भी उसी तरह का बजायेगी या पुरुषार्थ अनुसार....?

बाबा: अरे, पूरे कल्प की बात क्यों कर रहे हो, इस जन्म की ही बात करो ना। 84 जन्म का पता है क्या? 83 जन्मों में हमने कैसा पार्ट बजाया, क्या पार्ट बजाया, हम कौन थे वो पता है? वो तो कुछ पता ही नहीं है। हाँ इस जन्म में जो जैसा हुआ है वो ही उस 84 जन्म में एक कल्प के बाद फिर ज्यों का त्यों होगा। उसमें कोई अंतर नहीं पड़ने वाला है। बाकी 83 जन्म के लिए तो तुम अच्छा सोचो। अच्छा सोचेंगे तो अच्छा पुरुषार्थ करेंगे।

Disc.CD No.466, dated 17.12.07 at Lucknow
Extracts-Part-4


Time: 37.37-44.06
Student: Baba, it has been said in Murli , ‘Do you visit the new world’? So, it is about which place?

Baba: To whom has this been said?
Student: The children.
Baba: Which children were told [this]? (Someone said: the eight deities). So, the ones to whom it has been said must be visiting [the new world].
Student: Baba, will the rest not visit?
Baba: It was not said ‘they will’. It has been said – ‘you do’.
Student: Can’t those who are not included among the 8 deities (ashta dev), those who are not counted among them, visit [the new world]?

Baba: If they are counted among the equivalents of the 8 deities, they are included among the subjects of the 8 deities; are the eight deities king quality souls or subject quality souls? They are king-quality souls. Are all the 8 deities, who are souls of king-like quality alike or are they number wise? (Everyone said – they are number wise). So, among them, who are number wise, will the number one [deity] among them create a new world first or will everyone create the new world simultaneously? The number one [deity] will prepare his gathering first; he will create unity through purity. So, will those for whom the [new] world has been created, remain inside it or will they come out [of it]? They will remain inside [it]. The remaining seven would be visiting [the new world].
Student: Baba, the 8 deities about whom it was mentioned now, will they create their world; or will they create their subjects (praja)?

Baba: The intellect does not think to that extent at all.
Student: No, no. The one who is a king will create others (subjects), will he not? So, what is the indication that these souls are his subjects? Please tell as to who are the subjects of the king, what are they, won’t you?
Baba: Now, you need to be told the same things again and again. Are the 8 deities connected with only one religion or do all of them fall in different religions in the last births? They fall in different religions. So, whoever is connected to whichever religion more, will he make number wise purusharth (special effort for the soul) or will everyone make equal purusharth? They will make number wise purusharth. Will someone be number one purusharthi ( the one who makes purusharth) among them or not? So, will the number one purusharthi be closer to the Father or be farther from Him when compared to others, when compared to the other seven deities? He will be closer. Will the one who is closer to the Father prepare his gathering first or will others prepare first?

Student: Baba, these eight deities do not belong to different religions; all of them belong to the one Sun Dynasty, don’t they?
Baba: They all belong to the one Sun Dynasty, but in the last birth do they fall in different religions or not? They fall. It means they had a special connection with that religion, hadn’t they? Only then did they go and fall there; they went there and rubbed their nose (entreated abjectly). That special attachment is proved, isn’t it? So, the souls of that religion, the souls of different religions [among the eight deities] make Suryavanshi purusharth for 83 births; but Maya makes them fall in the last birth. So, the purusharth of one birth becomes lower one. They remained Suryavanshi (of the Sun dynasty), they remained the followers of the Sun, the helpers of the Sun for 83 births, but Maya made them fall in the last birth. So, do they belong to the same category or do they all belong to different categories? They belong to different categories. So, will someone be number one among all those 8 deities or not? (Student: Yes). Will the number one soul be close to the Father or not? (Student: He will be close). So, the gathering of the one who is closest to the Father will be prepared first. When a gathering becomes ready, those who live in that gathering, will they remain inside it or will they live outside? They will remain inside; and what about the remaining seven? The remaining seven will be outside.
Student: So, aren’t the outsiders living in the gathering?
Baba: What is meant by ‘coming and going (visiting)’? Arey, there are eight deities, they will become kings for many births. So, will they remain in the same kingdom or will they have their individual kingdoms? They will have different kingdoms. They would be coming and going to those very kingdoms. They will be more connected with the one who has a higher position. (Student: is this called visiting?) Yes.
Student: .......So, are they all the seeds belonging to the Ancient [Deity] religion (Sanatan dharma) or are the seeds of other religions also gathered there?
Baba: It is possible. If there are seeds belonging to other religions then they will be revealed later on. Now the foundation is being laid. When the land is dug to lay the foundation of a house, stones are put in the foundation. They are put, aren’t they? They are pressed with a rammer (dhachaka). So, do some stones slide here and there or not? (Everyone said – they do slide). So, those who are the one to slide [here and there] will slide away. (Someone said: those who have to fix will become fixed). Yes, those who will be the ones to set will set. (Someone said: now just the foundation is being laid). Yes, why to worry about them? A foundation is being laid. Heaven has not yet been established; they are adding up.
Student: Baba, can only virgins go to the new gathering or can the mothers, brothers, everyone go to the new gathering?
Baba: What about the statement, brothers are Duryodhans and Dushasans? If bulls are also allowed to intrude then what will be its condition?
Student: So, can the mothers also go?
Baba: Why can’t they go? If they play a good part, why won’t they go?
Student: Baba, [is it] as per the purusharth?
Baba: Yes, only those [mothers] will go, who are worthy of going [to the new gathering].

Time: 44.08-44.53
Student: Baba, will a soul play the same kind of part in the next Kalpa which it had played in the previous Kalpa or as per the purusharth.....?

Baba: Arey, why are you talking of the entire Kalpa? Talk about this very birth , won’t you? Do you know about the 84 births? What kind of a part we played in the 83 births, what part did we play? What were we? Do we know? We do not know about it at all. Yes, whatever has happened in whichever way in this birth, the same will be repeated as it is in 84 births after a Kalpa. There will not be any difference in it. As regards the 83 births, have good thoughts about it. If you have good thoughts, you will make good purusharth.....(to be continued)
.....................................................................................................................
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 19 Feb 2010

वार्तालाप नं.466, लखनऊ, दिनांक 17.12.07
उद्धरण-भाग-५


समयः 44.51-46.40
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, विधि के विधान में कुछ ऐसा नियम है, ऐसा कुछ लोग मानते हैं कि जो चित्त है हमारा उसमें रेखांकित होते रहते हैं अपने कर्म और स्वभाविक ढंग से वो चलता रहता है। क्या ये सही है कि आदमी परिवर्तित भी कर सकता है?

बाबा: अरे, जैसा कर्म करेंगे वैसी रेखायें नहीं बनेंगी? (सभी: बनेंगी।) तो नई बात क्या है इसमें? जो 63 जन्म हमने किया है वो 63 जन्म किये हुए के अनुसार; अच्छा किया या बुरा किया, वो इस आखिरी जन्म में शूटिंग हो रही है, रिहर्सल चल रही है। अच्छा कर्म किया होगा और वो अच्छा कर्म जब शूटिंग में उदित होता है तो अच्छी अवस्था बन जाती है। बिना पुरुषार्थ किये भी अच्छी अवस्था बन जाती है।
जिज्ञासु: बिना पुरुषार्थ किये भी?
बाबा: जी। कभी ऐसा अनुभव नहीं किया कि हम पुरुषार्थ उस समय कोई नहीं अच्छा करते तो भी अवस्था बहुत अच्छी बन जाती है। तो जरूर अच्छे कर्मों की रील उठ गई और जब हम बहुत पुरुषार्थ करते हैं, खींचतान करते हैं और फिर भी हमारी अवस्था डाऊन की डाऊन बनी रहती है। उस समय कौनसे कर्मों की रील उठ खड़ी हो गई? पाप कर्मों की रील उठ खड़ी हुई। तो बनी बनाई बन रही अब कुछ बननी नाही। इसका मतलब ये नहीं है कि जब खराब कर्मों की रील उठ खड़ी हो तो हम ठंडे होकर बैठ जाये। नहीं। सदा एक सा समय किसी का सुना और नहीं देखा है। ये रील तो पाप कर्मों की ऊपर-नीचे होती ही रहती है।

समयः 50.27-51.17
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, ये भक्तिमार्ग में बड़े-2 भगवान हैं जैसे साई बाबा और श्री-2 रवि शंकर। ये भी अष्‍ट देवों में होंगे?

बाबा: इन्होंने स्वर्ग बनाया? इन्होंने स्वर्ग बनाने में भगवान का सहयोग दिया? इन्होंने एकव्यापी भगवान माना? (जिज्ञासु: नहीं माना।) तो फिर अष्‍ट देवों में कहाँ से आ जायेंगे?
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, उन को भगवान का पहचान है कि नहीं?
बाबा: किनको?
जिज्ञासु: उन धर्मगुरुओं को।
बाबा: उन धर्मगुरुओं को तो छोड़ दो। माउंट आबू में जिनको समझे बैठे हैं उनको पहचान है? जब उनको ही पहचान नहीं है तो बाहर की दुनिया की तो बात ही छोड़ दो।

समयः 51.20-53.20
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, सर्प तो बहुत बार खल छोड़ता है। तुमको यहाँ प्रैक्टिस कराई जाती है, ये 84 जन्मों की सड़ी हुई खाल है। इनको श्याम कहा जाता है।

बाबा: 84 जन्म की कहाँ खाल सड़ी हुई होती है? 21 जन्म भूल गये?
जिज्ञासु: मुरली में है।
बाबा: मुरली में हैं? 84 जन्म सड़ी हुई खाल होती है?
जिज्ञासु: ऐसे ही लिखा है।
बाबा: तो गलत है बात। 84 जन्म की तो सड़ी हुई खाल होती ही नहीं। 21 जन्म की तो अच्छी खाल होती है। वो सड़ी हुई नहीं कहेंगे उसको। 63 जन्म की सड़ी हुए खाल बोलो। हाँ।
जिज्ञासु: ....उनको श्याम कहा जाता है।
बाबा: हाँ जी।
जिज्ञासु: इसका मतलब क्या है बाबा? उसको श्याम कहा जाता है।
बाबा: और सुंदर? अरे, श्याम कहा जाता है तो सुन्दर भी किसी को कहा जाता है कि नहीं? श्याम-सुन्दर ये गायन कहाँ का है? (सभी: संगमयुग का।) तो श्याम-सुन्दर जो गायन है संगमयुग का, वो संगमयुग में क्या पार्ट है जो श्याम भी है और सुन्दर भी है? ब्रह्माकुमारियाँ तो उसका अर्थ ये बता देती है कि दादा लेखराज अभी श्याम है और सतयुग में जन्म लेगा तो सुन्दर होगा। तो ये श्याम सुन्दर एक आदमी का नाम है, एक व्यक्तित्व का, पर्सनैलिटी का नाम है या दो का नाम है? (सभी: एक का।) तो ये तो साबित नहीं होता कि इस जन्म में श्याम है और अगले जन्म में शरीर से बच्चा बनके जब जन्म लेगा तो सुन्दर होगा। तो श्याम-सुन्दर कहाँ हुआ? उसी जन्म में संगमयुग में पहले श्याम और बाद में सुन्दर पार्ट बजायेगा।

समयः 56.00-56.46
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, सीढ़ी के चित्र में बताया है कि जो अपने 84 जन्मों के पार्ट को नहीं जानता है तो वो बुद्धू है।

बाबा: बुद्धू नहीं है तो और क्या है? कोई नाटक में नाटकबाज हो, कोई नाटक करे- कोई राजा का पार्ट बजाता है, कोई रानी का पार्ट बजाता है, कोई प्रजा का पार्ट बजाता है, कोई क्या पार्ट बजाता है और पार्ट बजाने वाले को अपना पार्ट ही याद न रहे और रंगमंच पे जाके खड़ा हो जाये। तो उसको क्या कहेंगे? बुद्धू कहेंगे, क्या कहेंगे? (सभी- बुद्धू।) फिर?

समयः 56.45-57.23
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, हमें भट्ठी करके 2 साल हो गए। हमारे पति हमें आपके पास आने से मना करते हैं। आज अपने मन से चली आयी हूँ तो ठीक किया या गलत?

बाबा: युक्ति से जब तक चलता है तब तक चलाओ और जब नहीं चलता है तो उनकी बात मान लो। याद ही तो करना है। याद करने से फायदा होगा या कन्धे पर चढ़ जाने से फायदा होगा? याद करने से फायदा होगा।

Disc.CD No.466, dated 17.12.07 at Lucknow
Extracts-Part-5


Time: 44.51-46.40
Student: Baba, there is a rule in the law of destiny (vidhi ka vidhaan), some people believe that our actions keep recording in our mind and it goes on naturally. Is it correct or can a person change it?

Baba: Arey, will our lines [of fate] not be formed in accordance with the actions we perform? (Everyone said – They will). So, what is new in this? Whatever we have done in the 63 births, as per the actions performed in 63 births, whether we performed good or bad [actions], its shooting, rehearsal is going on in this last birth. If we performed good deeds, and when those good deeds emerge in the shooting [period], the stage would become good. Even without doing purusharth (special effort for the soul), the stage becomes good.
Student: Even without doing purusharth?
Baba: Yes. Did you never experience [that sometimes], we do not make good purusharth; even then the stage becomes very good. So, definitely the reel of good deeds emerged and when we make a lot of purusharth, we do it (purusharth) forcefully, and still our stage remains down. The reel of which actions emerged at that time? The reel of sins emerged. So, whatever is predetermined is being enacted and nothing new will be enacted. It does not mean that when the reel of bad actions emerges, we should sit idly. No. It has neither been heard nor observed that someone’s fate remains the same all the time. This reel of sins keeps oscillating up and down.

Time: 50.27-51.17
Student: Baba, there are big gods in the path of Bhakti (devotion), like Sai Baba and Shri Shri Ravi Shankar; will they also be included among the eight deities?

Baba: Did they create heaven? Did they help the Father in establishing heaven? Did they accept God to be present in one person? (Student: They did not accept). So, how will they be included among the 8 deities?
Student: Baba, do those people know God or not?
Baba: Who?
Student: Those religious gurus.
Baba: Leave those religious gurus. Do those, who are thought to be [the religious gurus] in Mt. Abu have the knowledge [of God]? When they themselves do not have the knowledge, leave aside the topic of the outside world.

Time: 51.20-53.20
Student: Baba, a snake sheds its skin many times. You are made to practice here; this is the rotten skin of 84 births. He is called Shyam (blue-black).

Baba: The skin of 84 births is not rotten. Did you forget the 21 births?
Student: It is mentioned in Murli.
Baba: Is it mentioned in Murli? Is the skin rotten for 84 births?
Student: It has been written so.
Baba: It is wrong. The skin of 84 births is not at all rotten. The skin remains good for 21 births. It will not be said to be rotten. You can say: the rotten skin of 63 births. Yes.
Student:........he is called Shyam.
Baba: Yes.
Student: Baba, what does it mean? He is called Shyam.
Baba: And [what about] Sundar ( beautiful)? Arey, if someone is called Shyam, is someone also called Sundar or not? The glory of Shyam-Sundar pertains to which time? (Everyone said – of the Confluence Age). So, as regards the glory of Shyam-Sundar that pertains to the Confluence Age; which part is it in the Confluence Age which is Shyam (blue-black) as well as Sundar (beautiful)? The Brahmakumaris say its meaning this way: Dada Lekhraj is now Shyam and when he takes birth in the Golden Age he will be Sundar. So, is this name Shyam-Sundar the name of one personality or is it the name of two [persons]? (Everyone said – Of one). So, it is not proved that he (Brahma Baba) is Shyam in one birth and will be Sundar in the next birth when he takes birth as a child through the body. So, how is he Shyam-Sundar? He (the one who is Shyam-Sundar) will first play the Shyam part and later play a Sundar part in the same birth in the Confluence Age.

Time: 56.00-56.46
Student: Baba, it has been said in relation to the picture of the Ladder that the one who does not know about his part of 84 births is a fool.

Baba: If he is not a fool, what else is he? If there is an actor in a drama; if he enacts a drama; if someone plays the part of a king, someone plays the part of a queen, someone plays the part of a subject, someone plays some other part, and if the actor does not remember his part and goes and stands on the stage, what will he be called? Will he be called a fool or anything else? (Everyone said – a fool). Then?

Time: 56.45-57.23
Student: Baba, it has been 2 years since I did bhatti. My husband stops me from coming to you. Today I have come on my own; so did I do the right thing or is it wrong?

Baba: Until you can manage tactfully, continue to manage and when you cannot manage [tactfully], accept whatever he says. You have to just remember [Baba]. Will you reap benefits by remembering Him or will you reap the benefit by climbing on His shoulders? You will be benefited by remembering Him......... (to be continued)
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Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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