Sakar Murli Points for churning

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 28 May 2009

Mu. Pt. No. 105 (no fees for Godly study)

"Mai tumhara Baap tumko padhaata bhi hoon. Ab Baap padhaney kee fee bachhon say lega? Bachhon say fee kaisey lengey! Ek Pai bhi fee nahee leta hoon. Kitnaa door Paramdham say aata hoon tumko padhaaney. Yah naukari karney roz aata hoon.....Tumnay mujhey aadha Kalpa Yaad kiya hai, isliye mujhey is paraaye desh may aana padaa hai. Sab patit dukhee hain. Orphans hain. Dhani-dhori hai nahee. Orphan ko padhaney kay liye Government fee nahee leti hai. Yah toh bahut badee roohani Government hai.....Tumsay mai is padhaai kee fee nahee letaa hoon. Tum kahengey yah chaaval muthhi detey hain. Yah chaaval mutthi toh tum Bhaktimarg may detey aaye ho, jiska return fir doosrey janma may miltaa hai. Abhi toh tum jaantey ho – Baap sanmmukh baithey hain, free padhaatey hain kyonki jaantey hain inho kay paas rakhaa hee kya hai. Toh Baap thodey hee tumsay kuch lengey. Us padhaai may toh kitna kharcha karnaa padta hai. Kitney imtehaan pass karney padtey hain. Mai toh ek hee padhaai padhaata hoon. School may jo aatey jaatey hain, unko add kartaa jaata hoon. Haan jo late aatey hain., unko thodi mehnat jaasti karnee padtee hai. Unkay badley may fir deri say aaney vaalon ko achhi points mltee hain. Jo jaldee-jaldee padhtey hain unko kuch ghaataa nahee hai. Nayee-nayee achhi points milney say puraanon say bhi teekhey jaatey hain. Baap kahtey hain – shuru may jo aaye vah kitney bhaaganti ho gaye. Achha hua jo tum deri say aaye so fir tumko guhya tay guhya points mitee hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 17.10.06, pg 1&2)

“I, your Father, also teach you. Well, will a Father collect fee from the children to teach them? How can he collect fee from the children? I do not charge even a Pie. I come to teach you from Paramdham, situated at such a long distance. I come to perform this job daily.....You have remembered me for half a Kalpa; that is why I have had to come here in this alien country. Everyone is sinful and sorrowful. They are orphans. There is no one to look after them. Even the Government does not charge any fee to teach the orphans. This is a very big spiritual Goverment.....I do not collect any fee from you for this study. You would say that we give this handful of rice. You have been giving this handful of rice in the path of worship, for which you get the returns in the next birth. Now you know that the Father is sitting face to face; He teaches free of cost because He knows that they do not possess anything. So will the Father charge anything from you? One has to spend so much on that (worldly) study. One has to pass so many exams. I teach the same knowledge (to everyone). Those who keep coming to (this) school, I keep adding them. Yes, those who come late have to make more efforts. In return, the ones who come late get nice points. Those who study very fast do not incur any loss. When they get newer points, they gallop faster than the old ones. The Father says – so many of those who came in the beginning ran away. It is good that you came late. So you get deepest points.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 17.10.06, pg.1&2 published by BKs)

- When Baba Himself is telling that He does not charge any fee for this study, then where is the need for collecting fees indirectly at all the BK centers by keeping a bhandari (donation box)? It has also been observed that whenever BKs go to meet Avyakt BapDada at Mount Abu/Abu Road, then, apart from the transport charges, a definite amount is also collected from each BK for being deposited in the Yagya, for which no receipt is issued. Apart from this, it is also heard that in case of some specific training programmes that are organized by the BKs in India and abroad, although fee is not collected officially, but it is said that ‘voluntary contributions are welcome’, while Baba has categorically said that it is better to die than to seek.

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 16 Jun 2009

Murli Pt. No. 106 (ShivBaba's centers)

"Kahtey hain hamko falaani teacher miley toh achha hai. Toh jaroor khud kamzor hai tab toh kahtey hain falaani ko 2-4 maas kay liye bhej doh. Baba kahtey hain yah bhi bhool hai. Tum Brahmani ko kyon Yaad kartey ho jabki Baap sahaj baat bataatey hain – sirf Baap ko Yaad karo aur swadarshan chakra firaao, auron ko bhi samjhao. Bas. Ismay Brahmani aakar kya karegi? Yah toh second kee baat hai. Tum dhandhey-dhori may yah bhool jaatey ho fir bhi Brahmani yahee kahegi manmanaabhav. Kayi buddhu log samajhtey nahee hain sirf kahtey hain Brahmani achhi chaahiye. Gyaan toh tumko milaa hai na. Baap aur varsey ko Yaad karo. Deh abhimaan ko chodo. Yah hamaara center hai, yah inka center hai. Yah jigyaasu yahaan kyon jaatey hain....yah sab deh-abhimaan hai. Sab ShivBaba kay centers hain, hamaara thodey hee center hai. Tumko yah kyon hota hai ki falaana hamaarey center par kyon nahee aata. Kahaan bhi jaaye. Baba hamesha kahtey hain koi say bhi maango nahee." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 26.06.06, pg 3)

“They say – If we get that particular teacher it would be nice. So definitely they are weak themselves, that is why they say – send that particular teacher for 2-4 months. Baba says – this is also a mistake. Why do you remember the Brahmani (BK teacher/sister) while the Father is telling an easy thing – just remember the Father and rotate the swadarshan chakra; explain others too. That is all. What would the Brahmani come and do in this matter? This is a matter of just a second. You forget this thing in your business or job; even the Brahmani would say the same thing – manmanaabhav. Many foolish people do not understand and just say that we want a good Brahmani. You have received the knowledge, haven’t you? Remember the Father and the inheritance. Leave the body consciousness. This is our center; this is their center. Why does this seeker of knowledge (jigyaasu) go there?....all this is body consciousness. All the centers are ShivBaba’s centers. They are not our centers. Why do you feel that why doesn’t a particular person come to my center. He may go wherever he wants. Baba always says – do not seek from anyone.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 26.06.06, pg.3 published by BKs)

- Baba Himself is telling that any seeker of knowledge can go to any BK center. But it has been observed that the seekers of knowledge at most of the centers desist from going to other centers because they fear that the teacher of their own center may get upset.

- Baba is telling that all the centers are centers of ShivBaba. But it has been observed that most of the BK centers are known by the names of the teachers of those centers instead of being known as the centers of ShivBaba because at most of the centers the BK Teachers have been living at the same center since many-many years and they have developed attachment for that center and its seekers of knowledge. Is this situation alright as per the above Murli point?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 24 Jul 2009

Murli Pt. No.107 (Service stations open throughout the day)

"Baap samjhaatey hain, bachhon ko points buddhi may achhi reeti dhaaran karnee hain, padhaai regular karnee hai. Agar koi kaaran say saverey nahee aa saktey toh dopahar ko aa jaana chaahiye. Kisko tang bhi nahee karnaa hai. Saara din padaa hai. Koi bhi samay jaakar padhnaa hai. Yah bachhiyan subah say lekar shaam tak service par hain. Saara din service station khuley huay hain. Koi bhi aaye, unko raastaa bataana hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 09.06.06, pg 2)

“The Father explains, children must imbibe the points in the intellect nicely, one should study regularly. If one cannot come in the morning by any reason, then one should come in the afternoon. One must not even trouble anyone. The entire day is available. One can go at any time and study. These sisters (bachhiyaan) are available for service from morning to evening. The service stations are open throughout the day. One must show the path to anyone who comes.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 09.06.06, pg.2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that these sisters (bachhiyaan) are available for service from morning to evening. The service stations are open throughout the day. But it has been observed that many BK centers close after the morning class to enable the nimitt sister(s) to take rest and then open only in the evening. The matter of closing the center for some time for rest in cases of centers which are looked after by a single nimitt sister is understandable, but keeping in view the above Murli, is it correct to close the center for the sake of taking rest in the day time where more than one sevadhari sister/brother live?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 05 Aug 2009

Murli Pt. No.108 (Badge)

"Tumko yah Lakshmi-Narayan ka chitra dekhkar bahut khushi honi chaahiye. Isliye Baap nay kahaa hai yah Lakshmi-Narayan, Trimurti ka badge va medal jeib may daal doh. Ghadi-ghadi pocket say nikaal kar dekho. Oho! ham toh yah ban-ney vaaley hain. Bahut khushi hogi. Auron ko bhi dikhakar khush karo ki ham yah ban rahey hain. Dekhney say khushi hogi." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 02.12.06, pg 4)

“You must feel elated by looking at this picture of Lakshmi-Narayan. That is why Father has said that put this badge or medal of Lakshmi-Narayan, Trimurti in your pocket. Take it out of the pocket every moment and look at it. Oho! I am going to become this. You would feel very joyful. Make others also happy by showing it to others and telling them that we are becoming this. One would feel happy by looking at it.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 02.12.06, pg.4 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that the badge should depict Lakshmi-Narayan, Trimurti, which should be taken out of the pocket every moment and seen and feel elated, but among the BKs, only the teachers are given the badge of Lakshmi-Narayan and Trimurti. Remaining BKs are given the badge of a point, and not of Lakshmi-Narayan, which could be taken out of the pocket every moment and seen. So, is the above Shrimat only for the BK Teachers?
- Baba is talking about keeping the badge or medal inside the pocket and not about displaying it on the clothes. Then, is it necessary to display the badge on the clothes?
- If the badge of living Lakshmi-Narayan or living Trimurti lies always in the intellect-like pocket, then will there be any necessity to take out and see the gross badge from the pocket every moment?

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Re: Points for churning

Post by arjun » 18 Aug 2009

Murli Pt.No.109 (Nectar)

Baap kahtey hain yahaan hai gyaan kee baatein. Tum thoda bhi gyaan suntey ho toh fal mil jaataa hai. Yah gyaan sun-ney kee baat hai. Amrit peeney kee cheez nahee hai. Yah knowledge hai. Aisey nahee samjho ki Bhog kay din Amrit pilaatey hain. Nahee voh toh meetha paani hai. Baaki ye hai gyaan kee baat. Gyaan arthaat Baap aur srishti kay aadi madhya, ant ko jaan-na. (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 30.06.06, pg.2)

“The Father says here it is matters of knowledge. Even if you listen to a little knowledge you get the fruits. It is a matter of listening to the knowledge. Nectar is not a drink. It is knowledge. Do not think that nectar is offered on the day of Bhog. No, that is sweet (or sugared) water. As for the rest, it is a matter of knowledge. Knowledge means knowing the Father and the beginning, middle and end of the world.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 30.06.06, pg.2 published by BKs)

- When the Father is telling that actually the nectar is knowledge, then is there any need to drink or make drink the sweet water thinking it to be nectar? Is it not an indication of Bhakti?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 06 Sep 2009

Murli Pt.No.110 (ShivBaba's living home)

ShivBaba bhi kahtey hain mai pehley is (Sakar Brahma) ko samjhaata hoon. ShivBaba ka yah chaitanya home hai. Pehley-pehley yah (Brahma) seekhtey hain fir unsay adopted children numberwaar seekh rahey hain. Yah badee guhya baatein hain. Sadgati data patit-paavan khud aakar yah sab raaz samjhaatey hain. Aisey nahee ki vahaan say preranaa kartey hain. Vah toh yahaan aatey hain. (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 23.02.07, pg.2)

“ShivBaba also says that I initially explain to this one (corporeal Brahma). This is ShivBaba's living home. First of all this one (Brahma) learns. Then the adopted children are learning from him numberwise. These are very deep matters. The bestower of true salvation, the purifier of the sinful ones comes Himself and explains all these secrets. It is not that he gives inspiration from there. He comes here.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.02.07, pg.2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that His corporeal Chariot is his living home. Then why do we remember the point of light Shiv by taking our intellect to the non-living home, i.e. the Supreme Abode?
- If Brahma Baba is the living home as per the BKs, then we should remember ShivBaba through him, but he is not present in corporeal form. And if Gulzar Dadiji is the living home of Shiv Baba, then we should remember ShivBaba through her. But till now, no BK remembers ShivBaba through BK Gulzar Dadiji. Then, who is the living home of ShivBaba?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 02 Oct 2009

Murli Pt.No.111 (cutting of Murlis)

Murli likhna bahut achhi service hai, sabhi khush hongey, aasheervaad karengey. Baba akshar bahut achhey hain. Nahee toh likhtey hain akshar achhey nahee. Baba hamko Vani cut karke bhej detey hain. Hamaarey ratnon kee chori ho jaati hai. Baba ham adhikaari hain – jo aapkey mukhh say ratna nikaltey hain vah sab hamaarey paas aaney chaahiye. Yah kahengey vahee jo ananya hongey. Murli kee seva bahut achhi reeti karnee chaahiye. Sabhi bhashaen seekhnee chaahiye. Marathi, Gujrati aadi...Jaisey Baba rahamdil hai bachhon ko bhi rahamdil ban-na hai.” (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 12.03.07, pg.3)

“Writing Murlis is a very good service; everyone would feel happy; they would give blessings. Baba the writing (akshar or letters) is very good. Otherwise they write that the writing is not good. Baba, they cut and send the Vanis to us. Our gems are stolen. Baba we are entitled that – all the gems that emerge from your mouth should reach us. These words would be spoken only by those who are ananya (in literal sense it means unique, but could also mean ‘dear ones’). The service of Murlis should be done very nicely. One must learn all the languages. Marathi, Gujarati, etc... Just as Baba is merciful, the children must also become merciful.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.03.07, pg.3 published by BKs)

- It has been observed that after 1976, whenever the BKs revise and publish the Sakar Murlis after every five years, some words/sentences are cut or changed. Is doing so in accordance with the above Shrimat?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 17 Oct 2009

Murli Pt.No.112 (Entry of Shiv in Brahma Baba)

Tum bachhey yah thodey hee kah sakengey – Baba nay kab inmay pravesh kiya. Jab sakshaatkaar hua tab aaya va kab? Saakshaatkaar toh Bhakti marg may bhi aisey hee hotey hain. Pataa nahee padta ki Baba kis samay aaya. Krishna kay aaney kee ghadee dikhaatey hain. ShivBaba kee ghadi aadi kuch hoti nahee. Baba toh maalik hai. Kab aatey hain, pataa nahee padta hai. Yahaan Murli say samajh jaatey hain.” (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 27.03.07, pg.2)

“You children would not be able to say – when Baba entered into him. Did He come when he had divine vision or when? Similar divine visions occur in the path of worship also. It cannot be known at what time Baba came. The time of the arrival of Krishna is depicted. There is no time, etc. for the arrival of ShivBaba. Baba is a Master. It cannot be known - when He comes. Here, it is guessed through Murli.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.03.07, pg.2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that one cannot know about the time of entry of Shiv into Brahma Baba and it can’t even be said that Shiv entered into him when he had divine visions. So, how can we say that when Dada Lekhraj had divine visions in his room in 1936/37, the incorporeal Shiv had entered into him on that day and at that time. So then is it proper for us aloukik Brahmins to celebrate the Shivjayanti of the path of knowledge on a day decided by the astrologers of the path of worship for the Shivratri of Bhaktimarg?
- BKs say that ShivBaba teaches face to face by coming into Gulzar Dadiji. But there the programme of Avyakt BapDada’s arrival (day and time) is fixed many months earlier. But Baba is telling that “It cannot be known - when He comes” Does it not prove that it is not ShivBaba, but only Brahma Baba, i.e. the soul of Krishna which comes into Gulzar Dadiji?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 06 Nov 2009

Murli Pt.No.113 (Loving God in corporeal form)

"Brahma aur Brahmakumar-kumriyon ka aapas may kitnaa love hai kyonki yah ho gaye Ishwariya santaan. Ishwar toh hai niraakaar. Unkay saath love toh saakaar may chaahiye na. Niraakaar ko kaisey love karengey. Aatma shareeer say alag ho jaati hai toh love nahee hota. Aatma aur Parmaatma jab saakaar may milein tab love ho. Niraakaar roop may bhal gaatey rahtey hain – tum maat-pitaa…Tum aao toh tumhaari kripa say hamko sukhh ghanerey milein." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 20.01.07, pg 1)

“Brahma and Brahmakumar-kumaris love each other so much because they are God’s children. God is incorporeal. Love for God is required in corporeal form, isn’t it? How will one love the incorporeal? When the soul separates from the body, then there is no love. Only when the soul and the Supreme Soul meet in corporeal form, would there be love. Although they keep singing about the incorporeal form that – You are our mother and Father….If you come, we would get a lot of pleasure by your grace.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 20.01.07, pg.1 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that only when the soul and the Supreme Soul meet in corporeal form, would there be love. But after the demise of Brahma Baba in 1969 BKs remember or love God Shiv in an incorporeal point form. So, in view of the Shrimat contained in the above Murli, is it OK to love God in an incorporeal form?

- Baba is telling that love for God is required in corporeal form. So, then where is God in corporeal form?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 04 Dec 2009

Murli Pt.No.114 (Senior Baba and new points)

"Koi bhi baat may moonjhtey ho toh ananya bachhon say pooch saktey ho. Nahee toh yah Brahma Baba baitha hai. Yah nahee bataa saktaa toh badaa Baba (ShivBaba) baitha hai. Yah toh samjhaya hai ki abhi bahut kuch samajhney ka baaki hai. Saarey chakra ka raaz Baba samjhaatey rahtey hain. Kitnee points nikaltee rahtee hain. Ajun time padaa hai toh jaroor aur bhi samjhaana hoga. Parantu pehley mool baat yah jaroor likhaanaa hai, ekdam blood say likhvana hai ki hamko nishchay hai ki barobar Parampita Parmatma padhaatey hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 19.01.07, pg 4)

“If you get confused in any matter you can ask ananya (senior/unique/dear) children. Otherwise, this Brahma Baba is sitting. If he cannot explain, then the senior Baba (ShivBaba) is sitting. It has been explained that a lot of things remain to be understood. Baba keeps explaining the secrets of the entire cycle. So many points keep emerging. When there is still some more time, then certainly there is something more to be explained. But first of all the main thing that one should be made to write and that too with blood that we have the faith that certainly it is the Supreme Father Supreme Soul who is teaching” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.01.07, pg.4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that if the children get confused in any matter they can ask Brahma Baba or the Senior Baba. No BK can ask any kind of question to Avyakt BapDada who has been coming in the body of Gulzar Dadiji since 1969. Then, where is Brahma Baba and the Senior Baba, whom one could ask questions?
- Baba is telling that a lot of things remain to be understood. In the Avyakt Vanis being narrated through Gulzar Dadiji since 1969, there is no mention of any new points related to the World Cycle. Then where are the newer points being narrated from 1969 to the end of the Confluence Age?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 20 Dec 2009

Murli Pt.No.115 (as the beginning, so the end)

• "Tum bachhon ko saakshaatkaar bhi bahut hongey. Shuru may tumko bahut saakshaatkaar hotey thay. Kabhi Lakshmi ko, kabhi Narayan ko invite kartey thay. Kitney saakshaatkaar hotey thay, fir pichaadi kay time jab hahakaar hoga tab fir tumko saakshaatkaar hongey. Hangaamey hongey toh tum bachhey aakar yahaan ikatthey hongey. Isliye Madhuban may jaasti makaan banaatey rahtey hain. Fir tum bachhon ko in saakshaatkaar say khushi may laatey rahengey. Parantu maasi ka ghar nahee hai jo sab yahaan aa jaayein. Jo sapoot bachhey Baba kay madadgaar hongey, vahee aayengey. Agar Pandavon kay galney kee baat hoti toh fir makaan hee kyon banaatey!" (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 19.01.07, pg 3&4)

“You children would even have a lot of divine visions. In the beginning, you used to have a lot of divine visions. Sometimes Lakshmi and sometimes Narayan used to be invited. So many divine visions used to take place. Then, in the end, when there would be a lot of tumult, you would again have divine visions. When there would be disturbances, you children would come and gather here. That is why a lot of buildings continue to be constructed at Madhuban. Then you children would be made joyful by causing these divine visions. But, it would not be as easy for everyone to come here as visiting a maternal aunt’s house. The worthy children, who would be helpful to Baba, would alone come. If there was a question of Pandavas getting melted (as mentioned in the epic Mahabharata), then why the buildings would be constructed at all?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.01.07, pg.3&4 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that if there was a question of Pandavas getting melted, then why the buildings would be constructed at all? BKs say that we have to leave this body and become a deity in the next birth, but Baba is telling that there is no question of Pandavas getting melted (i.e. dying).

- BKs say that Brahma Baba and Mama Saraswati are going to become Narayan and Lakshmi. But, in the above Vani narrated through the body of Brahma Baba himself, it has been said that sometimes Lakshmi and sometimes Narayan used to be invited. So, the matter of inviting which Lakshmi and Narayan is being mentioned here?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 16 Jan 2010

Murli Pt. No. 116 (Brahma's ears also listen)

"Is samay ek hee baar baap aakar bachhon ka mukhdaa dekhtey hain. Bachhey jaantey hain ShivBaba nay yah mukhdaa kiraaye par loan liya hua hai. Aisey Baap ko apnaa makaan kiraaye par deney say kitnaa faaydaa hota hai. Pehley-pehley inkay kaan suntey hain. Bhal fat say tum suntey ho parantu toh bhi sabsey nazdeek inkay kaan hain. Tumhari aatma toh door baithi hai na. Atma kaan dwara sunengi toh thoda farq rahtaa hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 18.05.07, pg 1)

“The Father comes and sees the face of children only once at this time. The children know that ShivBaba has taken this face on rent or loan. There is so much benefit in giving one’s house (i.e. body) on rent to such a Father. First of all this one’s ears listen. Although you (also) listen immediately, but even then this one’s ears are the closest. Your soul is sitting at a distance, is it not? The soul would listen through the ears; so, there is a difference.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.05.07, pg 1 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that first of all the ears of this one listen. It means that when the incorporeal Shiv used to enter into Brahma Baba, then first of all Brahma Baba’s ears used to listen to the versions of Shiv. After 1969, BKs believe that Shiv enters into BK Gulzar Dadiji. But Gulzar Dadi herself is unable to listen to the Avyakt Vani that is narrated through her mouth. She reads the Avyakt Vani after the departure of Avyakt BapDada. Does it not prove that it is only a angelic soul (Dada Lekhraj) that enters into Gulzar Dadiji and not the Supreme Father Shiv?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 09 Feb 2010

Murli Pt. No. 117 (Kumarka tell...)

"Kumarka bataao Baba ko kitney bachhey hain? Koi kahtey hain 500 karor. Koi kahtey ek bachha Brahma hai. Kya Shankar bachha nahee hai? Tab Shankar kiska bachha hai. Yah bhi gunjaaish hai. Mai kahtaa hoon ShivBaba ko doh bachhey hain, kyonki Brahma vah toh Vishnu ban jaatey hain. Baaki raha Shankar, toh doh huay na. Tum Shankar ko kyon chod detey ho? Bhal Trimurti kahtey hain parantu occupation toh alag-alag hai na." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 14.05.72, pg 2, ant)
"Kumarka bataao Baba ko kitney bachhey hain? Koi kahtey 600 karor, koi kahtey ek Brahma.......Bhal tum Trimurti kahtey ho parantu occupation toh alag-alag hai na. Vishnu kee naabhi say Brahma niklaa. Brahma kee naabhi say Vishnu, toh ek ho gaye. Vishnu 84 janma letey hain va Brahma baat ek hee hai. Baaki raha Shankar. Aisey toh nahee Shankar so Shiv hota hai. Nahee, Trimurti kahlaya jata hai. Parantu righteous bachhey do huay. Yah sab gyaan kee baatein hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 15.05.07, pg 3)

“Kumarka! tell, how many children does Baba have? Some say 500 crores. Some say there is one child Brahma. Is Shankar not a child? Then whose child is Shankar? This is also a possibility. I say ShivBaba has two children, because as regards Brahma, he becomes Vishnu. Remaining is Shankar. So, there are two (children), are there not? Why do you leave Shankar? Although it is said ‘Trimurti’, but the occupation (of all the three personalities) is different, isn’t it?” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.05.72, at the end of pg 2, published by BKs)
“Kumarka! tell, how many children does Baba have? Some say 600 crores. Some say there is one Brahma.....Although you say ‘Trimurti’, but the occupation (of all the three personalities) is different, isn’t it? Brahma emerged from the navel (naabhi) of Vishnu. Vishnu emerged from the navel of Brahma. So, they are one. Whether Vishnu takes 84 births or Brahma (takes 84 births) the matter is the same. Remaining is Shankar. It is not that Shankar becomes Shiv. No. It is called Trimurti. But the righteous children are two. All these are matters of knowledge.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 15.05.07, pg 3, published by BKs)

- It is known to everyone that the Brahmakumari Institution has a record of about five years of Murlis that were narrated by ShivBaba through the mouth of Brahma Baba prior to 1969, which they revise once in every five years ever since 1969, i.e. they get it reprinted and read at every service-center of the Brahmakumari Institution.
- At the end of the page 2 of the revised Sakar Murli dated 14.05.72 published by the BKs, ShivBaba, while speaking to Kumarka Dadi, has described Brahma and Shankar as His two children and asked Dadiji as to why does she leave out Shankar?
- But when the same Sakar Murli was reprinted by the Brahmakumari Institution on 15.05.07, then the portion that has been underlined in the above mentioned Murli dated 14.05.72 was cut off.
- Prior to 1969, the part of Shankar had not commenced in the Confluence-Aged world of us Brahmins. That is why ShivBaba had asked Kumarka Dadi as to why does she leave out Shankar? But when the part of Shankar got revealed in 1976, after that whenever this Murli was revised and reprinted, the above portion was cut off. Was it done by the bodily Gurus of our Confluence-Aged world to save their throne, in order to keep the Brahmakumar-kumaris deprived of the information about the corporeal part of the Supreme Father Shiv being played through Shankar?

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 18 Mar 2010

Murli Pt. No. 118 (Brahma did not understand visions)

"Swayam Bhagwaan kahtey hain jab Bhakti poori ho tab mai aaun. Aadhakalpa Bhaktimarg chaltaa hai, din aur raat. Shuru may bhi pehley-pehley jab praveshataa hui (Maa ke roop may praveshata hoti thi) toh deevaaron par aisey-aisey chakra nikaaltey rahtey thay, jaisey chotey bachhey hotey hain. Samajh may kuch nahee aata tha. Ham tum sab babies thay, fir dheerey-dheerey buddhi may aata gayaa. Abhi tum padhkar hoshiyaar huay ho toh bilkul sahaj reeti samajha saktey ho. Aisey nahee samajhnaa yah bahut puraaney bachhey hain, isliye hamsey hoshiyaar hain. Ham toh itnaa padh nahee sakengey. Baba kahtey hain – pichaadi may aaney vaaley bahut aagey ja saktey hain. Deri say aaney vaaley aur hee din-raat Yoga may mast ho lag padengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 23.05.07, pg 3)

• “God Himself says – I come when Bhakti completes. For half a Kalpa/cycle the path of devotion (i.e. Bhaktimarg) goes on, day and night. Even in the beginning, initially when there was entry (In the beginning entry used to take place in the form of mother), then he used to draw the pictures of World Cycle like this, just as there are small children. (He) Did not understand anything. You and I were all babies; then gradually it went on entering the intellect. Now you have studied and become intelligent. So, you can explain very easily. Do not think that - "These are very old children, that is why they are more intelligent than us. We will not be able to study to that extent." Baba says – Those who come late can gallop ahead (of others). Those who come late would become even more intoxicated in Yoga day and night.”
(Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.05.07, pg 3 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that in the beginning, he used not to understand anything and he used to draw the pictures of the world cycle etc. on the walls. He was like babies, i.e. children.
- Then who explained to him the meanings of his divine visions? Because it has been said in the Murli that having divine visions and entry of God/deity in someone are different matters. Certainly, the Supreme Father Shiv must have explained to Dada Lekhraj Brahma the meaning of the divine visions having entered another body.

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Re: Sakar Murli Points for churning

Post by arjun » 16 Apr 2010

Murli Pt. No. 119 (Baba's language)

"Smritilabdha akshar bhi abhi ka hai. Iska matlab yah nahee samajhnaa chaahiye ki Bhagwaan nay aakar Sanskrit may Gita sunaai hai. Sanskrit hoti toh tum bachhey kuch nahee samajhtey. Hindi bhasha hee mukhya hai. Jo is Brahma kee bhasha hai, us bhasha may hee samjhaa rahey hain. Kalpa-Kalpa isee bhasha may samjhaatey hain. Tum jaantey ho ham BapDada ke saamney baithey hain. Yah ghar hai - Mama, Baba, Bhen aur Bhai. Bas aur koi sambandh nahee. Bhai-bahin ka sambandh tab hai jab Prajapita Brahma kay baney ho. Nahee toh aatma kay sambandh say toh Bhai-Bhai hain." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 22.06.07, pg 2)

“The word 'Smritirlabdha' (to be in the remembrance of God) also pertains to the present time. It should not be construed to mean that God came and narrated Gita in Sanskrit. Had it been Sanskrit, you children would not have understood anything. Hindi language is the main one. Whichever is the language of this Brahma, the explanation is being given in the same language. Explanation is given in this language every Kalpa. You know that we are sitting in front of BapDada. This is a house - Mama, Baba, Sister and Brother. That is all, there is no other relationship. The relationship of brother and Sister is when we have become (the children) of Prajapita; otherwise, as per the relationship of the souls all are brothers.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.06.07, pg 2 published by BKs)

- Baba is telling that – “Hindi language is the main one. Whichever is the language of this Brahma, the explanation is being given in the same language.” But Brahma Baba's language was Sindhi. So, which Brahma is ShivBaba talking about, in whose language He explains? ShivBaba did enter Brahma Baba, but played only the role of a mother. When Shiv enters into a Brahma in the form of a Father, the language of that Brahma is Hindi only.
- When there is no other relationship except mother, Father, Sister and Brother in the Brahmin family, then where did the relationship of Dadi, and Dada come from?

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