nivi wrote:Sister Anu, You have rasied some very valid points related to Knoweldge, and more importantly Advance knowldege for which we all seek to get clarification! But, do you think you will be able to get answers on this forum ? Nivi
I am Bhai :)
Answering your question - Why not? I am looking for facts and evidence. I believe that there are people here who keep on studying and searchig and they might know points, parts of classes, parts of unpublished materials both from BK and AK that may cast new light on these issues. Some time ago I felt that my understanding is incomplete, that there are many gaps and that there are facts that are generally taught without evidences and full understanding. I had chances to participate in an interesting exchange of experience with some students. We honestly desired to show the public that Gyan and history and human religions and science correlate. When we started the process of collecting evidences, it turned out that there are gaps and that some issues in Gyan have been communicated as axioms. Axioms are something opposite to acceptance based on understanding and evidences, meaning axioms are based on blind faith. This fact made us concerned. If we are to be those who bring the light of understanding, true consciousness, awareness and evidences to the world, if we are to be those who are to fight with blind faith and old wives' tales and at the same time we found quite a few issues that are unclear, ambiguous to us and we say that we accept something because "Baba said so and it is the truth" and we are said to "accept everything whatever is said no matter what is said", then I think we give the world a contradictory message, at least on the basis of our vibrations. Everything has been communicated to the Head of AK a long time ago (years), right after our discovery. We were told few times that ShivBaba is very busy and has no time to answer all the issue. We are still waiting for answers and help in understanding. So, nothing wrong in posting the issue here - somone might have happened to receive answers meantime.
You have mentioned that these are points that we all seek to get clarification. Having read this I understood that there are people whose intellectual wombs are not fullfilled in AK. After 70 years all together of narrating Gyan? Over 70 years of narrating Gyan and no radical change?
shivsena wrote:Dear anu.Advanced Knowledge teaches that those who do not know the Father are nastik (atheists) ....but the question is which Father ???? ....is it supreme Father incorporeal Shiv(who is known in all Three Worlds)....or is it the Father of humanity (who is supposedly known in BK-PBK world) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please give your views. shivsena.
Dear Shivsena, I have no idea. I wrote above that no matter BK or AK, both are narrated on such a level of generality that it may mean everything. Generality makes this knowledge safe, because when someone asks about something, the answer may be moulded and tailored. But, when we want to come to hard facts, we start banging our head against a brick wall, because there are discrepancies. Then,as I saw in discussions (http://www.pbksinfo
) when questions arises, students are generally advised to believe in ShivBaba and accept everything and reject whatever is in the outside world.
"Jo bap ko nehi jante vo astik" - here baap may mean both, nirakar and Sakar. However, in AK it is taught that Sakar and nirakar are combined, and only then they can be recogised. So, I think that in AK it is about the combined coroporeal form of Shiva and Prajapita Brahma who are present in the corporeal world. It would be clear if God said clearly which Father he means. It is a question of adding one phrase that helps the human mind avoid wandering. Like in the case of Lakshmi and Narayan. It was a question of adding two words "The Confluence Age Lakshmi and Narayan" and "The Golden Age Lakshmi and Narayan".
But again, this is the question of my assumptions. As I was advised in AIVV, assumptions (angadaza lagana) is something wrong and leads to mistakes. Then, I ask which path should be followed? The path of asking for clarification in order to be sure what each word means, which was also called the path of assurs who catch God by words (http://www.pbksinfo
) or leave the issue and rely on personal guessing? Eventually, when we chose the path of asking, the issue of the teacher's time arise and we fall into a circle. It is hard to believe that God who is supposed to be the Ocean of love, knowledge, mercy and all other virtues, communicates with his children like this. There must be a key to this.
What is your view on this?
May I aks you something? I saw your posts in some parts of the forum. What made you start doubting in AK? How did it happen?
Sach_Khand wrote:But Veerendra Dev Dixit started asking questions from the first day itself when he came to BKs and was not satisfied by many BK Brothers and Sisters. just if someone ask questions, can he/she be labelled as asur? :neutral: Sanjeev.
Yes, it is taught like this. It has been presented in AIVV as a proof of his greatness and independence, an indication of a king soul that only relies on the Murli and Shrimat. Yet, this attidute seems to be not encouraged now among the students of AIVV (it can be checked in classes available in http://www.pbksifo
). On one hand it was said that all questions are welcome and everyone can ask, if he doesn't understand something; he should ask as long as he want until understands and ShivBaba will give answers to all questions. However, it is impossible to miss the other message delivered in classes - those who ask questions are body consious asurs, they are Ravan, the tail of questions goes after them and they catch God by words. This message may lead to suppressing doubts. People may be even afraid of raising an issue, because of fear of being called all these names.
I have been observing those discussions and asking questions for a pretty long time. And I have to admit that sometimes they way they ar econducted makes me concerned. I noticed some patterns of dealing with questions during those sessions: sometimes the answer is given directly with details; sometimes the question is ridiculed; sometimes the question is answered by the question like "So, did ShivBaba say a lie?", "You don't believe in what ShivBaba said in Murlis?"; sometimes the question is answered "This is not the time; if everything is to be said now what will be said in the future"; sometimes the answer is so general and seems to be so far the question that it arises new questions; sometimes questions are rejected as too long and only simple questions are welcome. All this gives a picture of what is actually happening in Gyan.
Well, we cannot deny that confrontation, doubts, questions made Baba Viredra a hero and his strong virodh bhav against practices in BK (such as blind faith, conformity, following the others, discouraging to ask) along with his independence, strong personality and desire to go deeper and deeper have been widely praised in AIVV teachings.
Are these values represented by Baba Virendra still cherriched in AIVV? If they are, how? If they are not, why?