Yagya Origins

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button slammer
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Yagya Origins

Post by button slammer » 05 Jan 2011

ANU wrote:
Dear Indiana

I do not know how Shiva be present simultaneously in two bodies. Thisis what Baba in AIVV teaches at this time as the respond to the question of some students that i have already mentioned.
Does perception begin and end with the physical body? Mouth, eyes, forehead, mind, subtle body, intellect, point of light. Where do any of these organs or subtle bodies of perception, understanding, and state of being, begin and end? My corporeal body has a myriad of functions that all happen simultaneously. My two hands can grasp any number of objects simultaneouly. Everything to the edge of space and back, all living beings, including ourselves exists simultaneously, it is a wonder! Lets look to how a pure point of light moves. There is the example in physics of the particle and the wave, it seems that the particle can be both a point and a wave at the same time, thus enabling it to be in two places simultaneously. The 'entry' in the 1st Brahma aka 'Gita mata' is in namesake only, it is only a temporary title. If Shiv 'enters' her then what is the benefit? her intellect is barren. The practicle benefit is that the presence of Shiv enables that soul to clearly narrate the visions to 'Sewakram', and enable Prajapita Brahma to awaken to his preordained destiny, that of understanding and explaining the essence of the Gita. The true Gita that contains the 'nectar of immortality'.
Even, as she speaks Shiv can travel faster than sound, faster than light, faster than thoughts. So Shiv 'arrives/enters' Sewakram even before the sound waves reach his ears. The catching power of the Soul who has faced irreligiousness the maximum amount, who opposed evil for 2500 years, that soul, through the influence of ShivBaba is able to understand the true nature of the visions of Dada Lekraj as narrated by that mother. The soul who finally cried to God 'Oh, please, God come! Recieves the fruit of his previous 63 births. ShivBaba the original time traveller begins His task.

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Re: Yagya Origins

Post by ANU » 05 Jan 2011

Dear Borther
This topic has its place here http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2142&start=210
and it has already few responds there.

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Re: Yagya Origins

Post by button slammer » 05 Jan 2011

ANU wrote:Dear Borther
This topic has its place here http://BK-PBK.info/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2142&start=210
and it has already few responds there.
I have created a new topic. If you wish copy your recent replies over to here, as I do not see how this topic of 'Yagya origins' relates to the topic of 'pro publico bono'

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Memorial of the simultaneous entrance of ShivBaba.

Post by button slammer » 05 Jan 2011

button slammer wrote:Does perception begin and end with the physical body? Mouth, eyes, forehead, mind, subtle body, intellect, point of light. Where do any of these organs or subtle bodies of perception, understanding, and state of being, begin and end?
Below are two images from the path of Bhakti/devotion which can be understood to represent the simultaneous entrance of ShivBaba into the bodies of Gita Mata and Sewakram.
On a subtle level the human body is a vibrating mass of molecules, atoms, electrons and various electro magnetic forces that operate locally, globally, and perhaps on a galactic plane. So how do we define the limitations of the corporeal form, and in what dimension does a non material concient being operate? My suggestion is that although no two souls can occupy the same space there is an area where the vibrations overlap. There is no reason why the extended energy field of a human being cannot be defined as an aspect of its as its corporeal body. This extended energy field is depicted below as a circle. When two human beings depicted by circles come into proximity, the subtle energy fields overlap. This is called the Vessica Piscis:
220px-Vesica_Piscis_svg.png
220px-Vesica_Piscis_svg.png (9.24 KiB) Viewed 2774 times
The central eye like shape is where ShivBaba makes His simultaneous entrance. Remember, ShivBaba is beyond the duality of thoughts. ShivBaba doesnt have to spend 'time' processing information via sensory inputs. He is beyond the influence of the senses. He doesn't have to think what to do, actions are instantaneous, beyond the speed of thought. This simultaneous entrance also provides a unique referance point to the drama. This is the 'Turning Point'. Here the Supreme Father of all souls makes His 'appearance'. So the two fields of intellect simultaneously penetrated by the SF are also like polar opposites. That of Bhakti and Gyan. Gita Mata is unable to observe the point in the wave of expansion relating to the visions. Sewakram however instantaneously recognises the point, the most subtle being ShivBaba, he becomes the observer at this event and the wave collapses into essence form.
At the quantum level we have the wave/Gita Mata/infinate time and space which represents the expansion, and endless path of devotion. We have with Sewakram the observer, who by recognising and understanding the point is able to collapse the wave into an event and give a meaningfull account of the visions of Dada Lekraj.

''The vesica piscis has been the subject of mystical speculation at several periods of history, and is viewed as important in Freemasonry[4] and some forms of Kabbalah. More recently, numerous New Age authors have interpreted it as a yonic symbol and claimed that this, a reference to the female genitals, is a traditional interpretation''.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vesica_piscis
220px-Chalice_Well_Cover.jpg
220px-Chalice_Well_Cover.jpg (27.48 KiB) Viewed 2774 times
See Also:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aureola
The aureola, when enveloping the whole body, generally appears oval or elliptical in form, but occasionally circular or quatrefoil. When it appears merely as a luminous disk round the head, it is called specifically a halo or nimbus, while the combination of nimbus and aureole is called a glory. The strict distinction between nimbus and aureole is not commonly maintained, and the latter term is most frequently used to denote the radiance round the heads of saints, angels or Persons of the Trinity.
463px-17th_century_Central_Tibeten_thanka_of_Guhyasamaja_Akshobhyavajra,_Rubin_Museum_of_Art.jpg
463px-17th_century_Central_Tibeten_thanka_of_Guhyasamaja_Akshobhyavajra,_Rubin_Museum_of_Art.jpg (85.16 KiB) Viewed 2774 times

ANU
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Re: Yagya Origins

Post by ANU » 06 Jan 2011

My suggestion is that although no two souls can occupy the same space there is an area where the vibrations overlap. There is no reason why the extended energy field of a human being cannot be defined as an aspect of its as its corporeal body. This extended energy field is depicted below as a circle. When two human beings depicted by circles come into proximity, the subtle energy fields overlap. This is called the Vessica Piscis:
On one hand defining the limitation of the physical body may be illusoric when we look from the atomic perspective or the quantum perspective. On the other hand, if we assume the quantum physics perspective, it will be necessary to define what is "person" in AK teachings. In the quantum physics "the physical human body" may be defined by density of its atoms which is different from the density of the air outside it.

AK teaches about Shiva's entrance into the physical human body, no about the entrance in its energetic field (or subtle body). Baba teaches that the soul in the body "occupies" the specified place - under the hypothalamus - and influences the brain. AK and SM clearly denied the possiblility of Shiva's entrance in energetic field, which both define it as "subtle bodies". If we rely on the SM and AK, we need to assume that Shiva-point enters into human biological organism and sits under the hypothalamus, to opearate through it. Consequently, he cannot sit under hypothalamus of two people at the same time while they talk with each other; he may move from one place to another.

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Re: Yagya Origins

Post by button slammer » 07 Jan 2011

ANU wrote:AK teaches about Shiva's entrance into the physical human body, no about the entrance in its energetic field (or subtle body).
What is the physical human body which Shiva enters? It is the intellect that believes itself to be a corporeal being. What is the subtle body? It is the mind. The body is a mirror of the mind/intellect point like soul. It is the soul that is real. How can the SSoul enter into something which is illusory/temporal? Mind itself is the subtle body. ShivBaba has no mind so He does't enter the mind/subtle body. ShivBaba is pure intellect, He enters the intellect only. It is the intellect that embodies the soul concious stage.
In Murlis/Vanis where ShivBaba says 'I do not enter the subtle body'. This also refers to the disembodied ghost of Dada Lekraj. The intellect of Dada Lekraj remained dominated by the mind/corporeal form.
In Satyug Baba has mentioned the deities wont breath, eat, or sleep for 2500 years, the role of the hyperthalamus will be defunct; so why sould the soul reside there?
Can you give any Sakar or av references that says the soul resides in the hyperthalamus? Me thinks this is based on the research of Arya Samaj Soul Jagdish.
ANU wrote:In the quantum physics "the physical human body" may be defined by density of its atoms which is different from the density of the air outside it.
It may also be defined as 'the density of the body is determined by the density of conciousness.'

Even at the precise moment of entering (if it can be measured) the hyperthalamus, ShivBaba can make an instantaneous connection with any other being via the divine intellect, and thus maintain the integrity of His statement 'simultaneous entrance'.
No doubt an interesting topic. Thx for your comments.

ANU
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Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Sharing the results of research in the story of the Yagya collected with co-operation with western students.

Re: Yagya Origins

Post by ANU » 07 Jan 2011

What is the physical human body which Shiva enters? It is the intellect that believes itself to be a corporeal being. What is the subtle body? It is the mind. The body is a mirror of the mind/intellect point like soul. It is the soul that is real. How can the SSoul enter into something which is illusory/temporal?
I think that the explanation which you brought here has something in common with the Buddhist theory of of change and impermanence. As far as I know the AK, it defines the soul in a different way, as "a point" which has two functions - the mind and the intellect - and which works through the matter. This definition has its consequences. As the soul is a point, it is an individual permanent entity; it is something like an individual particle which cannot be divide (destroyed). The body was defined as impermanent, beacuse the elements it consists of, change their forms. This idea compared with the idea which you discussed, makes a great difference, for me. The whole AK dogma was built around duality of the soul (an individual entity with is permanent and unchangeable) and the matter (impermanent, changeble) - both have opposite natures. The soul works in the matter as an individual entity. The matter (here its body) was never presented as its mirror in AK, but as its tool. The same applies to SS. However, I haven't come through explanation how we can define the limits of that point which is the soul in the AK.


ShivBaba can make an instantaneous connection with any other being via the divine intellect, and thus maintain the integrity of His statement 'simultaneous entrance'.
Connection and entrance appear to me as two different phenomena. Making connection may be possible while two entities remain far from each other; I find it similar to the process of exerting influence. Entrance, for me, is something different. When we use the AK idea of the soul as a point - an individual entity - and speak about "entrance", it will mean that soul is present in its tool, its body. It exerts influence on the others, but as an entity is present only in one.

To conclude, I think that everything sounds nice in the AK, unless we start digging. Once we start digging, we may come across strange, unexpected discoveries. I have come across the idea that I may not have enough information in the AK to define the nature of the soul or to understand how a soul which doesn't have the attribute of being omnipresent, can be simultaneously present in two physical bodies.

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