shivsena's theory is basically flawed

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by Sach_Khand » 19 Jan 2011

arjun wrote: I thank the above member for giving me the title of dog. :D
Each knows himself /herself what he/she is having the possibilities to become. Anyway, if the above member thinks the saying (muhawra) fits him and is happy to take that as his prestigious title, it is his wish. And also that means his so called OGS will continue in the same fashion. So sad to know it. :sad: . But how can I stop him? He is the one to decide his approach.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by Sach_Khand » 19 Jan 2011

arjun wrote:Roy Bhai,
Om Shanti. From the language of the Murlis in Hindi and English quoted by you it appears as if they were quoted by mbbhat Bhai on that forum.
OGS,
Arjun
Any proof that the above points were quoted by mbhat Bhai?

Dear Roy, from where have you quoted those points, better if you give link to them if they are from this forum. And why are there no Murli dates of any of the points quoted by you? If you have dates, then please give them too. My request to you, do not post explanations given by Virendra Dev Dixit as Murli points. They are not. There are different posts to discuss the explanations given by Virendra Dev Dixit. If you want to quote explanations of Virendra Dev Dixit from the Q&A of Virendra Dev Dixit then please refer to them as explanations of Virendra Dev Dixit.

Please do not try to force upon us the explanations given by Virendra Dev Dixit as Sakar Murli points or AV points. Hope, from now onwards you will take precaution not to do such mistakes.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by Roy » 19 Jan 2011

Dear Sanjeev Bhai
Sach_Khand wrote:Please do not try to force upon us the explanations given by Virendra Dev Dixit as Sakar Murli points or AV points. Hope, from now onwards you will take precaution not to do such mistakes.
Thank you for your comments regarding the Murli points.

I was suprised to find these points on the Brahma Kumaris info site, in the Sakar Murli section of the library http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... ranslation ... and my query was, whether they are genuine Sakar Murli points, and could anyone verify this.

Roy

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 19 Jan 2011

roy wrote:I was suprised to find these points on the Brahma Kumaris info site, in the Sakar Murli section of the library http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/index.p ... ranslation ... and my query was, whether they are genuine Sakar Murli points, and could anyone verify this.
I am surprised, too. The Admins at bkinfo site should not have put such unverified and low quality material on its library. I went through the quotations once again in detail and now it appears to me as if these quotations have been taken from Clarification Murli narrated by ShivBaba through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. It may have been a clarification of a Sakar BK Murli dated 1966. So, it contains some extracts of the original Sakar Murli, dtd 1966 and some extracts of the clarifications narrated by ShivBaba to PBKs. But either way, the Hindi as well as English texts contain many mistakes and therefore should not have been uploaded by bkinfo Admins who banned the PBKs from that forum basically on the pretext that PBKs/BKs from India make a lot of mistakes while typing.

Earlier, from the language of the Hindi versions it appeared to me as if the Sakar Murli quotes were typed by mbbhat Bhai, but now I am not sure if it is he or any other soul.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by Roy » 19 Jan 2011

Thanks for further clarification Arjun Bhai!

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 27 Jan 2011

arjun wrote: But it is also said in the Murlis that those who belong to your clan will be convinced with just a few words. Murlis clearly direct us to desist from arguements. :D
Yes--That is said in Murlis....so imo, the potential BKs(9 lacs) from outside world will agree to bk-philosophy and join the bk clan....the potential PBKs (16000) from the bk world will agree to pbk-philosophy and join the pbk clan....and finally the potential 108(true brahmin clan) will leave the pbk clan to propagate their philosophy that Mama jagdamba is the personified roop of ShivBaba.....so those who belong to their respective clan will agree without arguement.
( Bhakti saying: "birds of the same feather will fly together")

Also there is mention of only brahmins in the Bhakti-scriptures and there is no mention of BKs or BKWSU or of PBKs or AIVV, because whatever the two preached was nivritti-marg ka Gyan(incomplete Gyan ie. knowing shiv but not his personified roop)....but 108 preached pravritti-marg ka Gyan and hence the true brahmins(108) are only mentioned in scriptures.

shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 29 Jan 2011

but 108 preached pravritti-marg ka Gyan and hence the true Brahmins(108) are only mentioned in scriptures.
Wish u all the best for your aim of 108.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 01 Feb 2011

For record and future reference sake only:
shivsena wrote:Shiva(ocean of knowledge) himself has no role in speaking the Murlis
Please remember these words in future. You keep changing your beliefs every now and then. I hope you don't change this belief.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 01 Feb 2011

For record and future reference sake only.
This is not really necessary as i always own what i have said in past and i am not afraid to admit if i am proved wrong.

The biggest exam for all BK-PBKs is: Who is speaking the Murlis and Vanis ????

I believe (according to Hindu scriptures) and churning the Sangamyugi scriptures(Murlis) that Shiv(zero) is the supreme Father(parampita) who is a-karta, a-bhogta, a-sochta (inactive) and shakti(paramatma part) is his dynamic power of expression (who is playing this whole game) and the two combined is ShivBaba personified.....as it is said in Murlis : " ShivBaba(shivshakti) is the main actor-director-creator of this behad ka drama"

I have only changed my belief once : first i thought that Baba dixit is Ram's soul and Krishna(DL) is interfering in AK....now i believe that Ram parampita paramatma is Mama Saraswati's soul(combined rachieta) and Baba dixit is rachna--Krishna (inventor of jhooti Gita ie AK.)

shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 01 Feb 2011

The biggest exam for all BK-PBKs is: Who is speaking the Murlis and Vanis ????
Not 'who' but 'through whom'.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 01 Feb 2011

arjun wrote: Not 'who' but 'through whom'.
Yes--who spoke the Murlis through DL and who is speaking the Vanis through Dadi Gulzar.
That is the million dollar question.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 01 Feb 2011

who spoke the Murlis through DL = Shiv

who is speaking the Vanis through Dadi Gulzar = Lekhraj Kirpalani

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by arjun » 01 Feb 2011

"Mama nay kuch laaya kya. Kitna Mama ko Yaad kartey hain. Baap kahtey hain Yaad kartey ho, yah toh theek hai, parantu abhi Mama kay naam-roop ko Yaad nahee karnaa hai. Hamko bhi un jaisi dharana karnee hai. Ham bhi Mama jaisey achha ban kar gaddi laayak banein. Sirf Mama kee mahima karney say thodey hee ho jaayengey. Baap toh kahtey hain maamekam Yaad karo, Yaad kee yatra may rahna hai. Mama jaisa gyaan sunaana hai. Mama kee mahima ka saboot tab ho jab tum bhi aisey mahima laayak bankar dikhao. Sirf Mama-Mama kahney say pait nahee bharega. Aur hee pait peeth say lag jaayega. ShivBaba ko Yaad karney say pait bharega. Is Dada ko bhi Yaad karney say pait nahee bharega. Yaad karnaa hai ek ko. Balihaari ek kee hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 17.10.05, page 2 & 3)

“Did Mama bring anything? Children remember Mama so much. Father says that you remember her; that is all right; but now you must not remember the name and form of Mama. We must also inculcate virtues like her. We should also become nice like Mama and become capable of sitting on the throne. Will you become capable just by praising Mama? Father says, remember only me and keep performing the journey of remembrance. You must narrate knowledge like Mama. The praise of Mama will be proved when you too become worthy of such a praise. Your stomach will not get filled just by uttering ‘Mama-Mama’. Your stomach will even start touching your back (i.e. become emaciated). Your stomach will get filled up by remembering ShivBaba. Your stomach will not get filled up by remembering this Dada also. You must remember one. Credit goes to one.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 17.10.05, page 2 & 3 published by BKs)

The above Murli clearly proves that Mama is not the number one soul. ShivBaba has clearly stated that we should neither remember Mama (Om Radhey) nor Baba (Dada Lekhraj). But shivsena Bhai is bent upon praising just Mama which is against the Shrimat given by ShivBaba in the above Murli.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by shivsena » 01 Feb 2011

The above Murli clearly proves that Mama is not the number one soul.
The whole Godly game is to recognise the no. 1 soul and i feel that the no. 1 soul has to emulate Shiv in all respects and should be no. 1 in all 4 subjects too.....so comparing sincerely all 3 key personalities ie. Mama -- DL -- VD....i find that Mama surpassed DL and VD both....and so i feel that she is no. 1 soul (paramatma combined with Shiv).

Explanation : DL never understood Murlis and left his body (a broken man) and so he is automatically out of the race for no. 1 soul (though BKs still think he is).

Now let us analyse whether VD qualifies to be no. 1 soul (paramatma part)....i think VD is no where compared to Mama when compared to The Knowledge what Mama gave during the first 28 years....The Knowledge given by Mama Saraswati(which emerged in her intellect) was so intoxicating that it held the BKs together for 28 years....while VD had to take the BK knowledge from some other soul....the BK knowledge did not emerge in his intellect (this is one point which goes strongly against VD to be no. 1 soul)...and also to realise his part he had to churn the SM (which i believe was spoken by Mama) for 3 years.....so this proves that VD was no where near Mama when compared in first subject "knowledge"....the second and third subject(Yoga and dharana) are subjective and cannot be assessed, as they are known only to the individual soul.

The fourth subject is seva, which again when compared between Mama and VD.....Mama is far ahead as Mama maintained unity with her seva and knowledge for 28 years...while VD with his ambigious AK has caused nothing but silent hostility and enmity between BKs--PBKs and ex-PBKs.....and a seva which divides children and takes the children into girti kalaa cannot be called seva....and so on the basis of these two negative results (of Gyan and seva), i feel that Mama Saraswati is the only soul who is paramatma part (always combined with Shiv as shivshakti.)

shivsena.

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Re: shivsena's theory is basically flawed

Post by Roy » 01 Feb 2011

Dear Shivsena Bhai
arjun wrote:You must remember one. Credit goes to one.
I think this says it all... there is no mention of two, or a combined form with Mama, just remember One Father Shiv. Even if you remember Shiv via Baba Dixit, you remember Shiv in his costume, you don't focus on Baba Dixit the soul... just as you don't remember Brahma Baba or Mama, you remember only One... Manmanabhav! Only One brings unity, NOT TWO!

Also, i cannot believe that Father Shiv, would trick His children by speaking of Mama like this, whilst secretly knowing He is combined with her.. this for me would make a complete mockery of Shrimat and the Murli. This path is hard enough, without having your beloved Father, throwing you off the scent, with false instructions and red herrings, this simply wouldn't be right imo.

Then there's the practicality of having a relationship with your Father. As effort maker souls, we are learning to relate to one another as souls within bodies... the whole basis of the Golden and Silver Ages, is to have relationships as souls in bodies... so the no 1 practise of this, is the realtionship we have with Father Shiv, in a body. We won't be floating around literally bodiless in the Golden Age, we will be in the bodiless stage(mentally), but within a body. How do we focus on something, when we don't even know where it is? Where are your combined souls, and how is focusing on a bodiless spirit, going to prepare us for Golden Age relationships with one another?.. it's not... the whole concept imo, is flawed from start to finish... there is absolutely no merit in it. As i keep saying, it is based on Bhakti marg understanding, not Shrimat... in fact it doesn't come anywhere close to Shrimat imo.

Last is fast. Novices gallop faster (i.e. are cleverer) than the older ones. Those who're fully connected with the Father(through remembrance) climb very high(in the path of worship). Everything depends on Yoga. [Mu 4-9-74]

Everything you said about Mama was great and lovely, but unfortunately she left her body before achieving her complete stage, her Yoga power was not enough to save her. Why is it said that Shankar has no role... because he is simply lost in remembrance of Shiv, he has the most powerful remembrance of all, and this is why he becomes no 1. He destroys all his sins through the furnace of Yoga... no one else does this as successfully as Shankar, and this is why he is the no 1 Brahmin, because of his remembrance(Everything depends on Yoga).

Roy

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