ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by pbkindiana » 26 Apr 2011

Anu wrote:
AK teacher twists and manipulates facts, data, descriptions, he often quotes those things which are suitable for his theory neglecting the other facts which remain the part of the whole picture. In this way he often changes the original meanings of things. Lots of examples I have already given in my posts.
Baba Dixit-Rambap never twists his explanations; it is we who never understand His unlimited versions. Also He never like to mention dates; moreover why should He mention dates when he said that we should be conquerors of time.
The question of Vedanti and Jagadamba - yes, contrary to what you, PBK indiana, are saying, AK teacher mentioned data; 2008. He did it many times and he spoke about their both coming to AIVV.
Again Baba has never mention dates but yes, He did say that choti Maa and badi Maa will be coming to AIVV.
Kamla Devi recently, within few years, wrote an official letter in which she prohibited using her name as Jagadamba in the letter of faith. It was something dofferent from what she did in 1998. I saw it when I brought a person to do batti. However, you will not learn about it from AIVV officials, because they have a good reason to hide this fact from the public.
Baba never hides any information from anyone and at all if He cannot reveal anything currently, then He will say that He will reveal it later. It is because that particular situation hasnt happen yet.

indie.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Sach_Khand » 26 Apr 2011

arjun wrote:Disc.CD No.417, dated 12.10.07 at Pathankot
Part-I


Time: 1.44
Someone asked: Baba, Lakshmi & Narayan will become the parents of Krishna. then , who will become the parents of Radha?

Baba replied: Lakshmi & Narayan will become the parents of Krishna. Which Radha and Krishna are you talking about? Are you talking about the Krishna and Radha of the Golden Age or are you talking about the Confluence-Aged Radha and Krishna? Are you talking about the Radhey and Krishna who are praised in the scriptures or are you talking about the ones who have not been praised in the scriptures at all? Are you talking about the ones about whom Baba has told us that the children like Radha and Krishna take birth in the Golden Age?
Someone said: The ones who have been mentioned by Baba.
Baba: Will the children like Radha and Krishna who take birth in the Golden Age be born from the same parents or from two separate parents?
Someone said: From the same parents .
Baba said: It means that if daughter Radha is born from a separate set of parents, child Krishna is born from a different set of parents, then will there be two families or one ? If, in the Golden Age, Radha is born in a different family and Krishna is born in a different family, then will there be two clans or will there be only one clan? It has been said in the Murli that Radha belongs to the Moon Dynasty (Chandravanshi) and Krishna belongs to the Sun Dynasty (Suryavanshi). So, will there be two dynasties in the Golden Age? There will be only one dynasty (vansh). So, the parents will also belong to only one dynasty. And nobody becomes a widow (vidhwaa) or widower (vidhur) there. There, the childhood (bachpanaa) is not such that the child would keep lying in the cradle (paalnaa) for 2-3 years and that the parents will have to clean the excrements and urine (of the child). Take for example a calf. As soon as it takes birth it starts jumping, starts running. In the same way a pure reproduction takes place (in the Golden Age). Will the mother sit and cry there during the birth of a child? No. The birth of a child takes place very comfortably…..

....So, it is not about the Golden Age. Whatever is mentioned in the scriptures pertains to this time i.e. the Confluence Age. It means that the soul of Radha might be certainly getting the sustenance in the clan established by the Moon of knowledge, Brahma. And will Krishna belong to the Moon Dynasty or the Sun Dynasty? He will belong to the Sun Dynasty (Suryavanshi). There he might be obtaining The Knowledge directly from the Sun of Knowledge. And all his followers will also be the ones who study directly from the Sun of Knowledge. They will not be the ones who study from the Brahmakumar-Kumaris. So, Krishna belongs to the Sun Dynasty and Radha belongs to the Moon Dynasty. Will Krishna consider himself to belong to a higher clan or will he consider himself to belong to a lower clan? (He will consider himself to belong) to a higher clan. ...
In the above explanation by Virendra Dev Dixit it is mentioned that Krishna of Confluence Age belongs to Sun Dynasty and learns directly from Sun of Knowledge and Radhey of Confluence Age belongs to Moon Dynasty and learns and gets sustenance from MOON OF KNOWLEDGE.

According to AIVV Confluence Age Krishna is Virendra Dev Dixit and Confluence Age Radhey is Sister BK. Vedanti.

And in the above explanation it is said that Moon of Knowledge is Brahma.
It means that the soul of Radha might be certainly getting the sustenance in the clan established by the Moon of knowledge, Brahma.
I think here Brahma is used for Dada Lekharaj.

Now, when Radha belongs to Moon dynasty, it means that there is a Moon that establishes the Moon dynasty as is said by Virendra Dev Dixit in his explanation quoted above.
similarly, when Krishna belongs to Sun dynasty, it means that there is a Sun that establishes the Sun dynasty.
This has been accepted by Virendra Dev Dixit when he has explained in the above discussion that he i.e., Sangamyugi Krishna i.e., Virendra Dev Dixit
there he might be obtaining The Knowledge directly from the Sun of Knowledge.
My querry is,
Will anyone tell Who is This Sun of Knowledge Who establishes Sun dynasty and hence is the Master (Swami) or couple of The Moon. And when does This Sun establish Sun dynasty and through whom?

Further the question arises that all praises are of the parts that was played in Sangamyug and therefore Sun and Moon must be praised Who play the part and not the owners of the physical gross body alone. And the praises must be directed towards The soul who plays the part if not that would be considered as Shav pooja.
But the one who (D.L.) according to AIVV plays the part of Moon through someones body at the time of revealation of Krishna and Radhey of Sangamyug is now being also defamed as Ravan. How all this can be explained? And the one who belongs to Sun dynasty is being considered as Master (Swami or Pati) of Moon (D.L.) who establishes Moon dynasty. So what about the Sun who establishes Sun dynasty? Is it not wrong to consider the couple of Sun as the wife of someone belonging to the Sun Dynasty?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 26 Apr 2011

sachkhand wrote:Will anyone tell Who is This Sun of Knowledge Who establishes Sun dynasty and hence is the Master (Swami) or couple of The Moon. And when does This Sun establish Sun dynasty and through whom?
Disc.CD No.532, dated 11.3.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-2


Time: 10.34
Student: Brahma Baba is called the moon of knowledge in corporeal form, isn’t he? Why is the fathernot called the Sun of Knowledge in corporeal form? He is called the soul of Ram.

Baba: The Sun of Knowledge is Shiv and Prajapita belongs to the dynasty of the Sun of Knowledge. When I come, I give knowledge to Sun. He (i.e. Shiv) says: I give knowledge to Sun. So, it proves that the giver is Himself a soul. That Sun (to whom He gives) is corporeal.
Student:..........Ram belongs to the dynasty of Sun (Suryavanshi).
Baba: He belongs to the dynasty, Raghu kul (meaning) he belongs to the dynasty of Raghu.
Student: The soul of Ram became Suryavanshi, did he not?
Baba: Raghu means Sun. The very meaning of Raghu is Sun. The soul of Ram is called an ocean of knowledge. Ocean is connected to this Earth. Sun is beyond the ocean as well as beyond the Earth. It is beyond the mountains as well. It is beyond even the biggest mountain among all the mountains, the Himalayas; the house (aalay) of ice (him).
Student: The Sun…...…It means that Sun should be in a corporeal form, should it not ?
Baba: Sun. For example there is Jupiter (Brihaspati), Mars (mangal), Mercury (Buddha). These are one living form by the union of two . One is in the physical form and the other is the soul that enters in it. Similarly, there are two forms of Sun. One is incorporeal and the other is corporeal.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by ANU » 26 Apr 2011

arjun wrote:This is another big lie of anu. This issue has been discussed openly in may discussion classes and most PBKs are aware of this fact.
I have listen and analysed all the classes available till the end of 2010. And I guarantee that this issue was not raised in any of those classes which were available. In 2007 the issue was still a big secret and no one wanted to explain this issue clearly to the person I brought for a batti.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by ANU » 26 Apr 2011

indie wrote:Baba never hides any information from anyone and at all if He cannot reveal anything currently, then He will say that He will reveal it later. It is because that particular situation hasnt happen yet.
Baba does hide selected information from the public; I have even a letter from him dated early 2010 in which he advised not to reveal certain information.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 27 Apr 2011

anu wrote:I have listen and analysed all the classes available till the end of 2010. And I guarantee that this issue was not raised in any of those classes which were available. In 2007 the issue was still a big secret and no one wanted to explain this issue clearly to the person I brought for a batti.
I will try to present the relevant extracts of discussion classes whenever I come across it. The problem is that by the time I find a relevant extact, it is hard to find the relevant topic where the concerned discussion was taking place as normally members are mixing up topics and raising non-relevant issues in different threads.

At present I could search an extract where the issue of the surname 'Dixit' being added to Mama's name was raised:

Disc.CD No.659, dated 22.10.08 at PV
Part-4

Time: 21.30-23.22
Student: And I had asked you a question regarding why are the lokik names of Mama and Baba written on the letters of faith?
Baba: About that, ask those who are writing it. Why do you ask me? Have I written the letter of faith or have they given in writing? Hum? Have I written it?
Student: No, those who wanted to write have written…
Baba: Those who want to write are writing it. Now they are also writing the name of Mama. Mama has even given resignation (tyaag-patra) and separated. Those who wish are writing ti; it is their faith and belief. Go and convince them. Go and make them cancel their letters of faith .
Student: In relation to the same question another question had emerged on the site , the surname ‘Dixit’ is suffixed with the names of Mama as well as Baba.
Baba: Yes.
Student: So, have they undergone Court marriage, or something like that from worldly point of view?
Baba: No such thing has happened. Is there any restriction if someone wants to add some title to his/her name? Is there any restriction?
Student: No.
Baba: Then? If the person wishes to add (the surname), why are they feeling pain in it?
Student: It had happened like this in the lokik world too. Being the adopted son of Gandhi, Feroze Gandhi had suffixed ‘Gandhi’ to his name.
Baba: He adopted the title ‘Gandhi’.
Student: And then…
Baba: Why are the others feeling the pain? It depends on the choice of every person’s mind. As long as someone’s heart is attached to another one , he/she can adopt his title. Even if the giver does not give, someone wants to take it, is there any compulsion? Can’t he adopt it?
Student: He can adopt.
Baba: Then?

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by pbkindiana » 27 Apr 2011

Anu wroe:
Baba does hide selected information from the public; I have even a letter from him dated early 2010 in which he advised not to reveal certain information.
Even Baba had told me a decade age not to reveal certain information which i know, to anyone else. He said -- "let them find out themselves."

He said that when the time comes, everyone will come to know but that doesn't mean He is hiding purposely. Finally truth will be revealed.

indie.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by warrior » 27 Apr 2011

ANU wrote:
I have listen and analysed all the classes available till the end of 2010. And I guarantee that this issue was not raised in any of those classes which were available. In 2007 the issue was still a big secret and no one wanted to explain this issue clearly to the person I brought for a batti.
Aumshanti
maybe you missed this discussion:

Disc.CD No.549, dated 7.4.08 at Jammu

Time: 6.50-9.25
Student: Baba, Mahakali is shown to have a third eye; whose eye is it?
Baba: It is called the Shivnetra (Shiva’s eye). A devi (a female deity) as well as a devta (a male deity) is shown to have that eye. Who is that devta? Shankar. Shankar is shown in the form of Mahaakaal (the great death) and the devi is shown in the form of Mahakaali. So, the remembrance of Mahakali in the form of the third eye; it is a remembrance which is imprinted on her heart and mind which does not allow her to forget [the Father]. She cannot forget Him even if she wants to.
Although she may complain [saying], “My name should be removed from the letters of faith (nischay partra), from the surrender letters”. Arey, whether the name is removed or not, does it make any difference? Then why does this topic attack her intellect again and again that it would be better if the name is removed (from the letter of faith)? What would have been better? She thinks that if the name is removed; if the very name is removed from the letters of faith that people are made to write, then the children will not remember. Whom? They will not remember the mother. So [she thinks:] “I will be relieved a bit.” But she cannot be relieved. That is why it was said….. And on whom does the Father have special attention? [Does he have attention] on the children first or the mother?
Student: On the mother.
Baba: The more you remember [Me], the more I am with you.
Student: It means that Mahakali became stable in the remembrance; this is why she is shown to have the third eye.
Baba: The memories of the past life cannot be erased. This is why, in the pictures of Mahakalithat are prepared, although it appears that she has placed her leg on (Shankar’s) chest, but Shankar’s picture has also been placed on her forehead.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 27 Apr 2011

ANU wrote:I have listen and analysed all the classes available till the end of 2010. And I guarantee that this issue was not raised in any of those classes which were available. In 2007 the issue was still a big secret and no one wanted to explain this issue clearly to the person I brought for a batti.
warrior wrote:Aumshanti
maybe you missed this discussion:

Disc.CD No.549, dated 7.4.08 at Jammu
Would anu now have the courtesy of accepting his/her lie that the issue was never discussed in the disccuion classes?

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by ANU » 27 Apr 2011

Yes, I admit that I missed the information mentioned in Jammu discussion.
I do not agree that the issue in this discussion was explained clearly with the entire context.
Ad I maintain that in 2007 I witnessed ashram members confusing newcomers and hidding the issue at the time of signing the letter of faith.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Roy » 27 Apr 2011

ANU wrote:Yes, I admit that I missed the information mentioned in Jammu discussion. I do not agree that the issue in this discussion was explained clearly with the entire context. Ad I maintain that in 2007 I witnessed ashram members confusing newcomers and hidding the issue at the time of signing the letter of faith.
I feel, that you have to be careful with these issues. Yes, sometimes it appears that maybe there is some hiding of truth; but it is the motivation behind this, which is key imo. If hiding is done to mislead others, in a way that will only serve to do damage, then that is obviously wrong. But hiding truth, can be a merciful or serviceable act, where souls are perhaps not yet ready(not mature enough) to deal with it. In spiritual terms, we come to Gyan as children; very immature and unknowing; and as in the lokik world, adults choose to keep some information away from the children, until it is felt, they are ready to deal with it, with a mature perspective.

Roy

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 28 Apr 2011

anu wrote:Yes, I admit that I missed the information mentioned in Jammu discussion.
I do not agree that the issue in this discussion was explained clearly with the entire context.
Ad I maintain that in 2007 I witnessed ashram members confusing newcomers and hidding the issue at the time of signing the letter of faith.
Thanks.
As regards the ashram members hesitating to disclose such issues to newcomers is concerned, we must understand their dilemma. As roy Bhai pointed out, they are first eager to impart the advanced course which contains more positive aspects first and then discuss these issues with them when they are mature enough. Actually, it is the responsibility of the person bringing the newcomers to give all the necessary information. Sometimes, PBKs think that if they mention about the negative propaganda in the beginning, the newcomer may say 'NO' to AK on the first day itself. So, they think they would discuss it later. So, it is individual choice.

Even in my case I did not know the negative propaganda initially. Had I known all that I would not have been a PBK today. But ever since I have started Godly service through internet, I make it a point to tell every newcomer to first gain entire information about the positive aspects as well as negative propaganda before taking the course or bhatti.

Roy Bhai was a detached observer for a long-long time before he actually turned in favour of AK. It has now been quite some time since he started supporting PBKs, but so far I have neither asked him either through this forum or through private email to attend the course or bhatti. Whenever he is fully geared up for the same, he can seek the necessary information whenever he wants.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Roy » 28 Apr 2011

arjun wrote:Even in my case I did not know the negative propaganda initially. Had I known all that I would not have been a PBK today. But ever since I have started Godly service through internet, I make it a point to tell every newcomer to first gain entire information about the positive aspects as well as negative propaganda before taking the course or bhatti.
Yours is a good example of the point Arjun Bhai. I would not be here today, if my original teacher had not been the soul he was, and brought myself and others into the knowledge, very carefully and considerately. A little later, he would then lay the reality of Maya(five vices) and the family in front of you, so that you would be prepared for what you would have to face. I don't think anyone else, could have given me the foundation i needed to sustain me in Gyan, the way he did.

I like your style though Arjun Bhai, in being very open about the negative opinions that circulate regarding AK. On a forum such as this, you cannot hide the fact that these exist; so it is important to acknowledge them, and let each individual come to their own conclusions. I wouldn't recommend newcomers to Gyan, getting too involved on a forum like this though; as you do need a Honeymoon Period to enjoy the positive aspects of this knowledge, before some of the less enjoyable aspects are faced. ShivBaba tells us to remember the days of our childhood for a good reason; because these are the days of innocent enjoyment of the knowledge, that can help you in tougher times. Every soul should have the opportunity to enjoy this childhood; and this is why negative aspects should be kept for a later time if possible, when a soul is mature enough, to see them in a balanced way.
arjun wrote:Roy Bhai was a detached observer for a long-long time before he actually turned in favour of AK. It has now been quite some time since he started supporting PBKs, but so far I have neither asked him either through this forum or through private email to attend the course or bhatti. Whenever he is fully geared up for the same, he can seek the necessary information whenever he wants.
This is very true! On discovering AK on the internet, i was very quickly drawn to what is was saying to me. However; on coming to this forum very shortly afterwards, i discovered souls like Shivsena Bhai, giving very powerful counter arguments against its authenticity. Had i been a complete novice in Gyan, i would have been wrecked by this, as i would have had no foundation to lean on; and this is why i wouldn't recommend novice souls, getting too involved on here, before they've had time to assimilate what they've been learning. I had to make a clear choice after a while, because i was being pulled in two different directions. My bias was very much towards AK, but Shivsena Bhai brought up points of knowledge, i had no answers for at first. But once i made my choice firmly, and started to read the Clarification Murlis more ernestly; i found things becoming much more certain.

Attending bhatti, is something i look forward to doing; as of course do i, to meeting ShivBaba, face to face(big stuff!)! :D However, i've had a funny history in Gyan, due to my own unique karmas(as with all of us), which has involved many years of illness and isolation, which i've still yet to be overcome. AK being on the internet, has been wonderful for me; as has being able to discuss Gyan on this great forum. It may take me a while longer yet though, to get myself into a position, where I am ready to do bhatti; and then to hopefully meet ShivBaba for the first time. In the meantime, i shall continue to make a nuisance of myself, on here! :D

Roy

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Sach_Khand » 28 Apr 2011

arjun wrote: Disc.CD No.532, dated 11.3.08 at Tadepalligudem
Part-2


Student: The Sun…...…It means that Sun should be in a corporeal form, should it not ?
Baba: Sun. For example there is Jupiter (Brihaspati), Mars (mangal), Mercury (Buddha). These are one living form by the union of two . One is in the physical form and the other is the soul that enters in it. Similarly, there are two forms of Sun. One is incorporeal and the other is corporeal.
There is nothing new.
It is known very well that any human being is a combination of corporeal form and the incorporeal one.
But, Virendra Dev Dixit has very peculiar explanation. He says that there are two human beings with individual souls, one acts in the physical pane and is corporeal part and another acts in spiritual plane and is incorporeal part.

In my opinion, this is wrong.
In Murlis it is asid that only my soul has the Name, Shiv. All others have names on their bodies. I think this has the explanation as follows.
Only Shiv is Absolutely Soul conscious without any tinge of any kind of covering i.e., body consciousness. And therefore only He, The Soul, can be addressed as Shiv.
All others when addressed are actually being addressed to a body, either gross or subtle (BVS and Farishta) because they are having atleast some tinge of body consciousness. And all the names are therefore based on those bodies of which they are conscious.

In my opinion, Shiv and Brahma are Sun and Moon.

And just read the following explanation,
Baba: The Sun of Knowledge is Shiv and Prajapita belongs to the dynasty of the Sun of Knowledge. When I come, I give knowledge to Sun. He (i.e. Shiv) says: I give knowledge to Sun. So, it proves that the giver is Himself a soul. That Sun (to whom He gives) is corporeal.
Underlined words are nowhere said in Murlis as per my knowledge, but are taken from BhagwadGita Scripture.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Sach_Khand » 28 Apr 2011

arjun wrote: I will try to present the relevant extracts of discussion classes whenever I come across it. The problem is that by the time I find a relevant extact, it is hard to find the relevant topic where the concerned discussion was taking place as normally members are mixing up topics and raising non-relevant issues in different threads.

At present I could search an extract where the issue of the surname 'Dixit' being added to Mama's name was raised:
Atleast you should not have added the irrelevant topic in this thread.
I request the administator and moderators to remove this topic and make it single another topic or geral topic whee such querries by Anu are being answered.
Why dilute this thread also?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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