Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

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shivsena
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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 16 Jun 2011

shivshakti wrote:
Perfect Point!!! the truth is so open but it is still hard to understand. Krishna's soul cannot become Avyakt farishtha and Krishna's soul is not Dada Lekhraj to begin with.
Dear shivshakti.

DL is prince Krishna (who will be born as child Krishna in Golden Age)....his role in Sangamyug is over in 1969 and he does not enter in Virendra Dev Dixit...he has not taken full 84 births and so he cannot be Krishna in Sangamyug (Murli says: "Krishna ke pure 5000 saal, 84 janam hote hain, ek din bhi kum nahin. ")....so which soul is Krishna???....is it DL(Krishna) who did did not complete his full 5000 year cycle (and came to know his part through visions)....or is it Virendra Dev Dixit(Krishna) who was born from Gyan-garb(he realised his part after reading Murlis) and he will take full 84 births and complete the full 5000 year cycle.

shivsena.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by sita » 16 Jun 2011

In some Avyakt Vanis, it is said approximately the following...you could see even when Brahma baba used to be Sakar, how he used to listen to the service news. He used to merge all informaction and go into essence. His Avyakt stage were clearly visible on his face, whilst walking anddoing everything. In other Vanis it is said that Brahma Baba became Avyakt and we haave to give the proof of our love by becoming Avyakt too.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivshakti » 16 Jun 2011

Yes! and it is Mayavi Krishna not mayavi Ram or mayavi shiv. DL sounded like a naive personality, how can this world drama assign "Maya"'s role to such a person.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 17 Jun 2011

sita wrote: His Avyakt stage were clearly visible on his face, whilst walking and doing everything.
DL was never in avaykt stage any time.....after Mama left the body in 1965 he cried and cried for few days and said how can the Yagya carry on without Mama and also he could not control the children who were doing things against Shrimat.....also how can a soul(DL) who has attained avaykt stage be disturbed by the news that the main trustee of the BKWSU is a purush and not a mataa.....DL should have remained sakshi (jeete-ji-marna) to the whole episode...but he succumbed to a heart attack next day.
In other Vanis it is said that Brahma Baba became Avyakt and we haave to give the proof of our love by becoming Avyakt too.
If Vanis say that we have to become avaykt like brahma baba, then why do PBKs have to remember bindi shiv in Sakar Virendra Dev Dixit.....are PBKs going to become avaykt farishta by remembering shiv in a human body ??

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by sita » 17 Jun 2011

There are three stages sakari, akari and nirakari. Brahma Baba might have not achived the nirakar stage whilst living but he had achieved the akari stage, that is the Avyakt stage. In such stage one does not have any wordly thoughs, his mind is occupied with thoughts of knowledge only. Brahma Baba, whilst alive, did not have any worldy concerns, even at the times of test. He had not been interested in any worly matters and had been only occupied with practice, knowledge and service etc.

In the same way we are to achive the Avyakt and nirakar stage whils living. Yes, i believe we will achieve the Avyakt (subtle) stage through remembering a point of light, because intellect becomes subtle. The subtle stage is the stage in between. Before going to Paramdham, all souls first gather in the Subtle Regions, so it is not possible to not pass though there. We can see in our mind also, that before reaching incorporeal form, our thoughts has to become less, and more subtle, and not gross, not wordly, but thoughts of knowledge. If we aim for the highest aim we will surely pass though the in between stage. You know the final lesson of nirakari, nirvikari nirahankari. So it is said to practice the nirakari stage, but the Avyakt stage that is in between will be achieved automatically. And regarding the question why should we remember a point of light in a human body, we have to remember the point of light, there where it is and everyone has an intellect to determine for himsef where is it the Supreme Soul. From where it is that Godly knowledge emerges, new points, knowledge that no human being can teach.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 18 Jun 2011

sita wrote:There are three stages sakari, akari and nirakari. Brahma Baba might have not achived the nirakar stage whilst living but he had achieved the akari stage, that is the Avyakt stage. In such stage one does not have any wordly thoughs, his mind is occupied with thoughts of knowledge only. Brahma Baba, whilst alive, did not have any worldy concerns, even at the times of test. He had not been interested in any worly matters and had been only occupied with practice, knowledge and service etc.
The above observation is just not correct....it may be true that brahma baba(DL) did not have any worldly attachment towards hadh ki duniya(lokik duniya and family) but he was very much attached to the behad ki duniya(Yagya and Godly family) and so he could not develop a sakshi bhav(varaigya) to the happenings in the Yagya after Mama' left in 1965.....in Murlis it is said that : : "bacchon ko hadh aur behad dono se paar jaana hai" but DL could not do so because of not understanding the Murlis and a soul who does not understand the first subject Gyan can never never become avaykt farishta.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by sita » 19 Jun 2011

shivsena wrote: DL could not do so because of not understanding the Murlis and a soul who does not understand the first subject Gyan can never never become avaykt farishta. [/u][/color]
There is a difference between unerstanding and practically doing. Although we might have understood soomething, it does not mean we have implemented it.

It is right we have to break even the golden chains. To break all connections and connect to one direction is to become a farista. Farista has connection with only one God and deities have connections with deities. Avyakt means non-visible. Brahma Baba has become Avyakt, as he is not visible.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by Roy » 19 Jun 2011

sita wrote:Farista has connection with only one God and deities have connections with deities.
Interesting point!

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 19 Jun 2011

sita wrote:
It is right we have to break even the golden chains. To break all connections and connect to one direction is to become a farista. Farista has connection with only one God and deities have connections with deities. Avyakt means non-visible. Brahma Baba has become Avyakt, as he is not visible.
Dear sita.

Very good point...so if we have to become farishta-angels(body of light and might) do we have to remember God in the form of light and might or in a perishable physical body.....that logical query follows.

Also since you have mentioned farishtas and devtas seperately...can you please further clarify as to who will become farishta and who will become devta.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by sita » 19 Jun 2011

We have to remember God in his real form, that is a point of light. God does not have a body of light and might. And about the matter of where we are to remember this point of light, it is said that i don't come in the Subtle Region dweller, i come in the corporeal. Even if we remember corporeal or subtle body it is still body-consiousness.

You may say we have to remember a farista in order to become a farista, but still this will be Shankar, as he is said to be the highest farista and is shown with the most subtle and incorporeal stages. But are we to remember Shankar, who has a body of light or the Supreme Soul Shiv who does not have a body of light. Those who have phisical body, also have subtle bodies. it is said that our perfect form is there in the Subtle Region, waiting for us. Is this perfect form a form of a farista or of a deity? Does God enter a farista or a deity? If someone is Farista, subtle will God enter him? Are faristas pure or impure? Are dieties pure or impure. In whom does God eneter in the pure or in the impure, in a farista, in a deity or in a human, one who churns.

Even if one has left his phisical body, but still has a subtle body is this body-consciousness or not? Even after he has left his body phisically he still remembers it, the subtle body has the same form as the corporeal, isnt' it. Is this good or bad to have a subtle body, without a phisical body, to be like a ghost. Where are these ghosts? They are definitely entering someone.

Instead we can forget our phisical body, even whilst in it and attain a subtle stage, and forget the subtle body also and attain incorporeal stage. Which is higest aim? Are we to become Bap saman and who is Bap, he is God. Is God a point of light or does he have a subtle body, are we to become farista saman. Whom are we to have benefit from - from a farista or from God? In the Gita also it is said that those who remember ghosts have benefit from ghosts and those who remember Me, have benefit from me. Who is this - me.

Ayway, please, provide proofs Mama has become farista. And, please, answer are we to attain the farista stage whilst in our body or are we to leave the phisical body to attain it?

All souls are to become faristas. They are to leave attachment, consiousness of the body, through effort or punishment and gather in the Subtle Region, on their way to Pramdham. Those are to become devtas, who has the aim to become devtas in their life and make the according effort to change from human to a deity. Even if someone is not able to change in the same body, but has had the aim to become a deity, but has left the phisical body, still he has had the aim, so he is reach his aim, is not it. Deities does not have subtle bodies, but pure corporeal bodies. The effort required is the same, to remember the Father. If we remember the incirporeal one, we will reach our aim. The subtle stage is the stage in between, on our way to our highest aim, we are to pass it like a side-scene.

Additionally, it is said, the easiest effort is to remember Narayan. We have to recognize which soul is to become Narayan. Even if he has not achieved his stage yet, we can see his perfect from. It is said we have to invoke our perfect form and also see every soul in his perfect form. In the Subtle Region there are subtle perfect forms and in the corporeal world there are corporeal perfect forms. Which are we to remember - the subtle or corporeal. It is said that the deities are waiting for us in the Subtle Region with the garlands of our perfect stage. There is controvecy that deities are there in the Subtle Region, because Subtle Region is nothing, it is subtle thinking. When we imagine, it is subtle thinking. When we see a corporeal form in his future perfect form, we are going in the Subtle Region.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by sita » 20 Jun 2011

Very good point...so if we have to become farishta-angels(body of light and might) do we have to remember God in the form of light and might or in a perishable physical body.....that logical query follows.
It is also said in the Murli, that if you cannot remember the small form, remember the big form. What is this small and big form, according to you? But remember, it is said in the Murli that in whomever i enter has to be named Brahma and i come in corporeal, i don't come in Brahma who is the Subtle Region dweller.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 20 Jun 2011

sita wrote:
It is also said in the Murli, that if you cannot remember the small form, remember the big form. What is this small and big form, according to you?
The small and big form is no. 1 shivshakti combined(Mama jagdamba) personified ShivBaba....i do not believe that any physical body can be personified form of ShivBaba...it has been said in Vanis: "remember nirakar in aakar".

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by sita » 20 Jun 2011

You mean to say, the small form is Shiv, the point of light and the big form is Mama, in her subtle body, is this right?

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivsena » 20 Jun 2011

sita wrote:You mean to say, the small form is Shiv, the point of light and the big form is Mama, in her subtle body, is this right?
Yes--that is right(as per Vanis) and also as per Bhakti-marg, shiv and shakti cannot be seperated....in Bhakti there is a song (link below) which pays tribute to the mother by singing that one cannot differentiate between mother and God.....and that song was from movie "Dadi Maa" released in 1966 ( a year after Maa jagdamba attained avaykt farishta stage ie no. 1 shivshakti)

http://www.bollywoodmantra.com/video/ae ... -kya-hogi/

shivsena.

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Re: Three interpretations of Murli & Vani points.

Post by shivshakti » 21 Jun 2011

What a wonderful song Shivsena Bhai. Thanks for that.

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