Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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More external proof of BKWSU lies and historical re-writes

Post by abrahma kumar » 21 Jul 2007

Nice work ex-l

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Jul 2007

BTW, Lekhraj Kirpalani's assests were said to be "Rs 10 lakhs". That is 1,000,000 Rupees (bearing in mind that "Is this Justice?" said sleeping partner Shewakram was still said to owe him money at that time ...).

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Re: More external proof of BKWSU lies and historical re-writ

Post by dyavu » 23 Jul 2007

ex-l wrote: "Struggles and Sorrows The Personal Testimony of a Chief Justice", p 37 to 39. Vikas Publishing House PVT LTD 1984 (IBSN 0-7069-2563-7) by Justice Hardayal Hardy - a leader of the Delhi Bar, Judge then Chief Justice of the High Court. Interestingly enough, also a member of the Theososphical Society in Karachi
Hi,

Justice Hardayal Hardy, B.A., LL.B. - Born, on 15th May, 1910. Matriculation Examination in 1st Division standing 1st in the N.W.F.P. Passed B.A. Examination in high second division. Passed first LL.B. Examination in 1st Division standing 1st in the Bombay University. Gold Medalists in Jurisprudence and Roman Law. Passed LL.B. Examination in High Second Division. Enrolled Advocate on 8th October, 1936 in the Court of Judicial Commissioner of Sindh at Karachi and after Independence on 17.3.1948 in the High Court of East Punjab in Simla. Did Civil, Criminal, Taxation, Constitution Law, Labour Law. Appointed Judge of the High Court Delhi on 4th January, 1967 (A.N.). Appointed Chief Justice of that High Court on 23.9.1971. Retired on 15.5.1972;

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Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Jul 2007

Thanks, there is another name in that article of Khan Bahadur Sir Ghulam Hussain Hidayatullah, who was;
  • Premier of Sind, Chairman of the Constitution Committee of the Sind Muslim League Assembly Party.

    (Chairman Constitution Committee from 19 March 1947; Premier 1937-8; 1942-6; Jan-Aug 1947; Governor of Sind, Pakistan, from Aug 1947)

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Brahma Baba a Saint?

Post by alladin » 26 Dec 2007

Hi. I just temporarily squeeze in here because I couldn't find another topic titled BB or Dada Lekraj.

For some reason, I always felt close to this soul, be it because of vibes, Avyakt connection, past lives or simply because I heard some stories about him that made me build up positive feelings or closeness to him. Not to mention the gratitude for the Avyakt Murlis!! But then I read different and contradictory things on the Forum - even regarding his character - and apparently had no direct experience of him. So, who knows? But when I read about the possibility that BB had a heart stroke due to the pain and shock he felt when he got bypassed and betrayed almost due to $ reasons by people he trusted, the " trustees" or Ramesh in particular, if I got it right, then I feel extra empathy for him.

The other day I was thinking about the following the Father's footsteps slogan and a question came to my mind; "Was Brahma Baba a Saint"? Or do some BKs regard/ed him as such?

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Post by freedom » 26 Dec 2007

To me he was a good guy, but his sanskars of being Indian and all the beliefs, plus the ego of building an empire around Madhuban and all those castes inside the clan where the 'purer' and richer were more respected, got him all caught up in lies ... and his 'karma' came back to him.

But Baba's message was real, positive and pure ...

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Post by arjun » 16 Jan 2008

Quoted from the BK Section for record:

"Baba nay samjhaya hai – hamesha Trimurti Shiv Jayanti kahnaa hai. Is vaari likhengey (2008 may) 72vi Trimurti Shivjayanti manaa rahey hain. Brahma bigar Shiv kaisey janma lengey.....Manushya bilkul vikaari patit ban padey hain. Boodhey ho jaatey hain toh bhi vikaar nahee chodtey. Nahee toh kaaydaa hai 60 varsh kay baad vaanprasth lena chaahiye. Pehley aisey kartey thay. 60 varsh ke andar apnaa bojha utaarkar bachchon ko dey detey thay. Ab 60 varsh kee aayu may bhi bachchey paida kartey rahtey hain. Baap kahtey hain inki 60 varsh kee aayu may bahut janmon kay ant kay ant may, jab inki vaanprastha avastha hui tab mainey pravesh kiya, tab isnay bhi sab kuch choda. Baap kay aaney say saari duniya kay liye vaanprasth avastha ho jaati hai kyonki sabko jaanaa hai vaapis. Isliye Baap kahtey hain maamekam Yaad karo. Chota va badaa koi bhi rahega nahee.....Sangamyug may Baap aakar patiton ko paavan banaatey hain. Isliye is yug kee aayu – jab say Baap aaya hai tab say ginengey. Tum kahengey ham 72vi Trimurti Shivjayanti manaatey hain athava ShivBaba 72 varsh say aaya hua hai." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 14.11.07, pg 2&3)

“Baba has explained – one should always say ‘Trimurti Shiv Jayanti’. This time (in 2008) it will be written that we are celebrating 72nd Trimurti Shivjayanti. How can Shiv take birth without Brahma.....Human beings have become completely vicious and sinful. Even when they become old they do not leave vices (i.e. lust). Otherwise, it is a rule that one should take retirement (vaanprasth) after the age of 60 years. Earlier people used to do like this. They used to relieve themselves of burdens (i.e. discharge their responsibilities) within 60 years and entrust it to the children. Now people keep giving birth to children even at the age of 60 years. The Father says – at the age of 60 years of this one, at the end of the last one of many births, when he reaches the stage of vaanprasth (retirement), I have entered in him. Only then did he too leave everything. With the arrival of the Father, the entire world reaches the vaanprasth stage because everyone has to return (home). That is why the Father says – Remember me alone. Nobody will survive, whether young or old.....The Father comes in the Confluence Age and transforms the sinful ones into pure ones. That is why the duration of this Age/Era will be counted from that time. You will say that we are celebrating the 72nd Trimurti Shiv Jayanti or that ShivBaba has come (here) since 72 years." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.11.07, pg 2&3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Om Shanti. If you believe the BKWSU, the above Murli proves that Confluence Age began when God Shiv entered into Brahma and at that time Brahma was 60 years old and as on the date of publication of the above Murli BKWSU is celebrating 70th Trimurti Shiv Jayanti. The Hindi version means that Shiv is here since last 72 years.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Brahma Baba's age at the (alleged) incarnation of Shiva

Post by sukshmbindu » 16 Aug 2011

[quote="fluffy bunny"]

This is from a Brahmakumari book published in a more 'slightly' innocent time, around the 1980s. It states that he was 55, only may be 60.
Image

actually in the book it is mentioned "Dada was about 55 or rather nearing sixtieth.....one day, he suddenly got the vision of the four armed Vishnu"..
may be he got visions of four armed Vishnu at 55..getting visions or going into trance does not necessarily mean that god Father Shiva has arrived into this world..he may have arrived five years later initially preparing ground for his arrival by visions..i think the visions started in 1932 and actual arrival of godfather Shiva in 1937 i.e when Dada Lekhraj was 60yrs old..

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Re:

Post by sukshmbindu » 16 Aug 2011

arjun wrote:Quoted from the BK Section for record:

"Baba nay samjhaya hai – hamesha Trimurti Shiv Jayanti kahnaa hai. Is vaari likhengey (2008 may) 72vi Trimurti Shivjayanti manaa rahey hain. Brahma bigar Shiv kaisey janma lengey.....Manushya bilkul vikaari patit ban padey hain. Boodhey ho jaatey hain toh bhi vikaar nahee chodtey. Nahee toh kaaydaa hai 60 varsh kay baad vaanprasth lena chaahiye. Pehley aisey kartey thay. 60 varsh ke andar apnaa bojha utaarkar bachchon ko dey detey thay. Ab 60 varsh kee aayu may bhi bachchey paida kartey rahtey hain. Baap kahtey hain inki 60 varsh kee aayu may bahut janmon kay ant kay ant may, jab inki vaanprastha avastha hui tab mainey pravesh kiya, tab isnay bhi sab kuch choda. Baap kay aaney say saari duniya kay liye vaanprasth avastha ho jaati hai kyonki sabko jaanaa hai vaapis. Isliye Baap kahtey hain maamekam Yaad karo. Chota va badaa koi bhi rahega nahee.....Sangamyug may Baap aakar patiton ko paavan banaatey hain. Isliye is yug kee aayu – jab say Baap aaya hai tab say ginengey. Tum kahengey ham 72vi Trimurti Shivjayanti manaatey hain athava ShivBaba 72 varsh say aaya hua hai." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 14.11.07, pg 2&3)

“Baba has explained – one should always say ‘Trimurti Shiv Jayanti’. This time (in 2008) it will be written that we are celebrating 72nd Trimurti Shivjayanti. How can Shiv take birth without Brahma.....Human beings have become completely vicious and sinful. Even when they become old they do not leave vices (i.e. lust). Otherwise, it is a rule that one should take retirement (vaanprasth) after the age of 60 years. Earlier people used to do like this. They used to relieve themselves of burdens (i.e. discharge their responsibilities) within 60 years and entrust it to the children. Now people keep giving birth to children even at the age of 60 years. The Father says – at the age of 60 years of this one, at the end of the last one of many births, when he reaches the stage of vaanprasth (retirement), I have entered in him. Only then did he too leave everything. With the arrival of the Father, the entire world reaches the vaanprasth stage because everyone has to return (home). That is why the Father says – Remember me alone. Nobody will survive, whether young or old.....The Father comes in the Confluence Age and transforms the sinful ones into pure ones. That is why the duration of this Age/Era will be counted from that time. You will say that we are celebrating the 72nd Trimurti Shiv Jayanti or that ShivBaba has come (here) since 72 years." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.11.07, pg 2&3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

Om Shanti. If you believe the BKWSU, the above Murli proves that Confluence Age began when God Shiv entered into Brahma and at that time Brahma was 60 years old and as on the date of publication of the above Murli BKWSU is celebrating 70th Trimurti Shiv Jayanti. The Hindi version means that Shiv is here since last 72 years.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
....
i have a doubt how can an Avyakt Murli of 2002 is revised Sakar Murli dated 14.11.07.. a bit confused about the dating.. kindly explain..

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by arjun » 18 Aug 2011

sukshmabindu wrote:i have a doubt how can an Avyakt Murli of 2002 is revised Sakar Murli dated 14.11.07.. a bit confused about the dating.. kindly explain..
The Murli point that I have quoted is not from an Avyakt Vani, but from a Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.11.07, pg 2&3. I don't think there is any confusion in this.
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by RudraPutra » 22 Aug 2011

I do not know how much of u all believe in WIKIPEDIA,but one of PBK brother had sent me pics' of those pages in wiki where clear manipulations are seen in BRAHMA BABA's age.Moreover there is one more thing hidden in the wiki page about the DEATH of BRAHMA BABA as HEART ATTACK which is basically not an approval answer from BKs'.I do not know how much of this proofs can be considered valid but atleast from all this its sure that certain conspiracies are there regarding these details.
Attachments
HeartAttackofBrahma.jpg
Brahma Baba's death clearly mentioned.
BrahmaAgeWiki.jpg
Brahma's age manipulated.Clearly seen

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by RudraPutra » 22 Aug 2011


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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 22 Aug 2011

Dear Rudra Bhai

This is a little amusing, if it is the same person who uploaded this information; who has then undermined the authenticity of it, by including conflicting entries, of 1876, and 1884, for Dada Lekhraj's birth date. Interestingly; the 1884 date, tallies with information Fluffy Bhai posted on this thread, regarding official BK data from 1938; that reveals Dada's age to be 54 at this time..

Any comment fluffy Bhai?

Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Aug 2011

Roy wrote:Any comment fluffy Bhai?
The Wikipedia is not a reliable source of information. If there are any errors relating to the BKs it is because the Simon Blandford and BKWSU IT team was working over time to try and stop a full and accurate documentation of their religion, and whitewash over all the cracks.

I go for the 54 years old because it comes from the most reliable source which was Lekhraj Kirpalani lawyer in the court proceedings in the 1930s. There was no reason to fudge things at that point and I doubt they would have risked doing so against such a high level court order.

Who knows the truth of what and why ... There was no God Shiva in the Brahma Kumaris religion until after 1950 and not even Virendra Dev Dixit can say when or why ... which I find strange. Surely if he has God inside him, they can tell the truth? How on earth does no one know the 'what happened and when' of what is surely the most important event in the Kalpa ... if you are a believer. Are we really to believe Dadi Janki and all the rest of them really have no recollection of when they sat down and decided to ditch "God Brahma and the failed 1950 End of the World" and reinvent themselves with a God Shiva and a later End of the World?

Lekhraj Kirpalani started his satsangs in 1932 and the idea of God Shiva was introduced 18 years plus later ... what on earth were they doing and believing for 18 years? Especially the years they went into hiding on Mount Abu.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 23 Aug 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:Lekhraj Kirpalani started his satsangs in 1932 and the idea of God Shiva was introduced 18 years plus later ... what on earth were they doing and believing for 18 years? Especially the years they went into hiding on Mount Abu.
Dear fluffy Bhai

Thank you for your comments, which add further insight into this matter.

Although Dada Lekhraj may have well started his satsang in 1932, and began having his visions around this time; the Confluence Age itself, imo, did not start until 1936/7, when Father Shiv, entered the first Brahma(Adi-Brahma-Jagadmata-Eve), to narrate the details of Dada Lekhraj's visions, to Prajapita Brahma(Virendra Dev Dixit, in his 83rd birth). This was the first time in this Cycle, that Father Shiv(seed of the Confluence Age world tree), actually entered a human being, in order to narrate Knowledge; thus making Prajapita Brahma(Baba Dixit), the first mouth-born progeny(Brahmin) of Brahma(Shiv through Jagadamba-world mother).

Although Dada Lekhraj's visions were given by Father Shiv; He(Shiv) had been giving these(visions) from the Copper Age onwards; so visions are not a part of the path of truth(knowledge), but are of the path of devotion(Bhakti). Also, the the giving of visions, does not require Father Shiv, to enter a soul's body to do so... He(Shiv) only enters a body, to narrate Knowledge directly. Therefore, until Father Shiv actually enters a body to narrate knowledge(1936/7), the Confluence Age hasn't begun.

With regard to the 14 year period from 1936/7, to 1950/1, this is the subtle period of the Brahma Role of establishment, of the Brahmin Religion; the practical period(consisting of 18 years of narrating the Sakar Murlis), did not begin until 1950/1, and then lasted until 1969, making the total period for the Brahma Murti, of about 33 years. This sets the precedent for all the murti roles, which have a similar 14 year or so subtle period, followed by an 18 year practical part. See the following post for more details on this topic... viewtopic.php?f=37&t=1521&start=315#p37816

During this 14 years subtle period of Brahma, there is not a lot of Knowledge about, which is why souls like Baba Dixit left early on in the Yagya. But souls like Brahma Baba(DL), who placed great importance on their visions, gained great faith through them, and were sustained by them. Father Shiv couldn't simply blurt out the whole knowledge straight away, as moving from the path of Bhakti to the path of Knowledge, is a very slow and progressive process. You have published documents from the early days of the Yagya, where the things said by Mama, sound totally alien and weird to me, and wouldn't have sustained me in the Yagya either. The souls who remain in the Yagya, are very slowly and carefully, brought out of their gross Bhakti practices, by the ongoing revelations of Father Shiv in the Sakar Murlis. But even after 18 years of narration of these, although the Brahmin religion has well and truly been established; in reality, what has happened; is that the path of gross Bhakti, has been replaced by the path of subtle Bhakti. Until Father Shiv starts to play the role of Father-Teacher-Satguru, through Shankar(Baba Dixit) in 1976, when we move out of Sangamyug(the Confluence Age), and Purushottam Sangamyug begins; the path of knowledge hasn't truly begun, whereby the secrets of the Sakar Murlis start to be revealed, and accurate churning begins to take place, by those souls, who recognise these new revelations to be truth. This then becomes the process via Shankar, that will eventually lead to the total destruction of the subtle Bhakti practices of the Brahmin religion(Ravanraj of the Confluence Age), and replaces them with knowledgeful ones(Ramraj of the Confluence Age). This again is a very slow process(remember we are dealing with 2500 years of powerful sanskars here), that eventually leads to the establishment of the Deity religion of Heaven(Ramraj), established in the Purushottam Confluence Age itself, by Ram(Father Shiv in the Chariot of Ram); some years before final world destruction occurs, in 2036.

This process can appear to be somewhat convoluted; but we need to understand, that the 100 years of the Confluence Age, is the shooting period of the whole 5000 year Drama Cycle, that ShivBaba has to once more re-establish, exactly as it played out 5000 years ago. Half of it being Ramraj or Heaven, created through the path of light or knowledge; and half of it being Ravanraj or Hell; the part created through subtle Bhakti, or night of the Confluence Age.

Roy

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