Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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sukshmbindu
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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by sukshmbindu » 29 Aug 2011

i thank you all for the replies..

brother roy can you please paste the link for those complete Murlis from which you have just quoted..

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Roy
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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 29 Aug 2011

sukshmbindu wrote:brother roy can you please paste the link for those complete Murlis from which you have just quoted..
Dear sukshmbindu Bhai

These Murli points are available in the advance Trimurti lesson as taught by the A.I.V.V., and in a publication called, Sachchigeeta Khand Vol 1, available from their site. I have provided links below, for both Hindi and English versions.

http://PBKs.info/Website%20written%20ma ... ndi%5D.pdf

http://PBKs.info/Website%20written%20ma ... -%20bk.pdf

http://PBKs.info/Website%20written%20ma ... 010%5D.pdf

http://PBKs.info/Website%20written%20ma ... -%20bk.pdf

I believe these points are genuine, and extracted from accurate Murlis. However, it is always great to discover them yourself in Murlis available on the net, or through connections.

Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by arjun » 30 Aug 2011

I thought this extract might be relevant to the current discussion:

Disc.CD N.537, dated 19.3.08 at Farrukhabad, Part-1
Extracts-Part-2


Time: 10.29-14.10
Student: Baba, vanprashtha stage is believed to be from sixty years.

Baba: Sixty and above sixty years.
Student: Baba, Dada Lekhraj’s age that has been shown, why is it shown to be 1876.
Baba: it has been shown to be 1876 as well as 1886 and it has been mentioned in the Gyanamrit magazines itself.
Student: Baba, now in their article that was published in their magazines and newspapers on the 18th of this January, it has been mentioned to be 1876.
Baba: Will it do if they show it [that way] and when the old books [issues] of the Gyanamrit patrika will be taken out, will the articles written by the old sisters turn out to be false?
Student: They are changing it (bhed – bhaav) now.
Baba: No. Changing… they have written it themselves/ [in the old aritlcles]. The old Gyanamrit magazine of that time; if a research is done then is the older version given more importance or is the newer version given more importance? The older one. Old is gold. So, the old Gyanamrit magazines and the Trimurti magazines of the old time that contain articles written by Didi-Dadis; will they be pure or will the articles being written by them now under the influence of jealousy, malice be better?
Student said something.
Baba: Yes, a second thing is that it has been said in the Murli that the Murlis have started [being narrated] since the days of Karachi. Moreover, when Murli is narrated…, how do we know that the Father Shiv has come? Vani was narrated and the Murli says that Murlis started being narrated from the days of Karachi since (19)47. Earlier Murlis were not narrated. Brahma Baba used to write 10-15 pages and the Father used to make him write. It means that there were some children (male and female) in whom the Father Shiv used to enter and used to make them write and Brahma Baba used to sit and write it. Later on when the gathering of Om Mandali was formed in Karachi, then the Murlis began to be narrated. There is no proof of Murlis prior to that. It proves that Brahma Baba’s age was 60 years in (19)47 and it was 100 years in (19)87. So, when the age was 100 years in (19)87, and if you deduct 100 years from that, which year do you arrive at? 1886-87. So, lies don’t have legs (i.e. it is baseless). Leg means leg-like intellect. Lie is spoken without using the intellect. On the one side they speak lies and on the other side they will be caught through the intellect.
Student: Those who follow the basic knowledge are hiding the age….they have written it as 1876
Baba: Well, if they are asked why has it been written like this in the Murli ‘the Murlis began to be narrated from Karachi; earlier Baba did not used to narrate Murli’? So, will the version of Murli be more authentic or will the dualistic statements written by human gurus in Gyanamrit magazines be more authentic?

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 30 Aug 2011

arjun wrote:I thought this extract might be relevant to the current discussion:
Many thanks Arjun Bhai; i thought this was a very interesting and timely posting, when i read it earlier, in your Q&A: PBK Murli discussions thread.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by fluffy bunny » 30 Aug 2011

Roy wrote:“He(Prajapita-Ram) who stayed(with Dada Lekhraj), for 10 years(first as a business partner, and then for 5 years from 1937, in the Yagya) ...
But we know from the legal proceedings that Sevakram was the secretary for the anti-party in 1936. The Bhaiband Om Mandli Committee that organised against Lekhraj Kirpalani.

The real questions to ask are; how can we accept such vague, erroneous and inconclusive information and why cannot a god who claims to be the God of all just tell it straight as it happened?

Does "God" really stumble about in darkness getting facts wrong and misleading people?

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 30 Aug 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:Does "God" really stumble about in darkness getting facts wrong and misleading people?
No, i don't think so Bhai! It is possible that the Sevakram you refer to, is not Baba Dixit in his 83rd birth. So much of what ShivBaba says, for me, is just so spot on, and touches my intellect; i therefore have faith that this will be be cleared up at some point in the future. I can accept that Prajapita-Ram(Baba Dixit in his 83rd birth) stuck around for 5 years, before thinking, enough is enough. However; even if he only stayed in the Yagya for a short while, before joining(if he did), The Bhaiband Om Mandli Committee... the shooting of him becoming Prajapita, the creator Father, through whom Gyan is clarified, was enough. That, plus recognising the opposing leftist souls, that Dada Lekhraj was allowing into the Yagya, were "trouble", and having conflict with him(DL) over this matter; may well have been, all the shooting for Prajapita's role, that was necessary at this time.

So yes, the details aren't really clear, and the Murli points only hint that Prajapita stuck around for 5 years. But whatever the truth is regarding this matter; it appears, the vital shootings for Prajapita's part, had taken place, right at the beginning of the Yagya. However; it would be nice to have absolute clarity about all of this, at some point.

Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by fluffy bunny » 31 Aug 2011

Given how important it is to the PBK, it is a wonder no one just does the obvious thing to do, and goes and finds out the truth (start by reading the available materials from the 30s and 40s. Yes, it is clearly stated in the court proceedings that the Sevakram/Shewakram was the partner of Lekhraj Kirpalani and owed him money at the time. What is slightly interesting that he owed Lekhraj Kirpalani money, again reversed the tiresome Brahma Kumaris version of events.

I have a feeling that no one just does the obvious thing because they don't want their faith to be challenged, they would rather exist in the myth.

But, really, the true facts are not a problem. If it turns out Virendra Dev Dixit's version is wrong again (it is, and he cannot tell what the true facts are), he will just change it and everyone will accept it as a new interpretation and re-write.

The whole matter was raised to Virendra Dev Dixit and he basically said, "I don't know, may be someone on the internet will find out".

The man had family ... why does not someone go, find them and find out instead of depending on "faith" alone.

Knowledge is knowing. Faith alone is Bhakti.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by arjun » 31 Aug 2011

fluffy-bunny wrote:The man had family ... why does not someone go, find them and find out instead of depending on "faith" alone.
Some PBKs are on the job.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by nivi » 31 Aug 2011

Dear Brothers and Sisters,

I apologize for not able to respond earlier. It is really a balancing act with our spiritual life and all the while carrying our family responsibility towards our partner, child, and our work etc. From what I understand so far, this organization is called spiritual university, and with all the emphasis on spirituality and God it is important to keep in mind that the world that Baba talks about is in relevance to our souls. God comes to establish a world order which is connected to our natural qualities of the soul, to exist in perfect balance of peace and harmony. The task of God is different than that of any man. When we say God is Unlimited, as in not limited by any particular faith or groups of people we simply cannot divide him like mankind has over the years, he is the Father of all beings!! And all being exist right now at the very end of Iron age or the Confluence Age. He gives his inheritance of heaven ( for at least 1 birth) to all his children. What we are certain of is this birth, and this is where it all happens.
I honestly do not know what is going to happen in 2036!?! I have not churned the knowledge enough to understand. What I do know is that once we are all able to get stable in our natural soul conscious stage we would automatically be experiencing "Swarg" or Heaven. The root word "Swa" means "self", so heaven in Hindi means to exist in that self or Soul conscious stage. So, What will happen in the the actual broad drama Golden Age I do not know.

Nivi

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by nivi » 31 Aug 2011

One more thing I wanted to add to my post above. While timing and dates are important, it is just as important to make our own effort. We may all have a different starting point in this path, but our journey is by far the most interesting one. I mean we all know inside we will reach our goal someday, but the process in how we get to our destination is of more relevance. Just like it takes 9 months to give birth to a baby regardless of if you are a housewife or a genius; there is only 24 hours in a day so either we can spend our day in happiness or in sorrow. It takes 40 to 50 years to establish the kingdom. If that is how long it takes for the first seed to purify and transform, than only our number will get there.. When the seed transform, than the whole tree will transform.

Nivi

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 31 Aug 2011

fluffy bunny wrote: Yes, it is clearly stated in the court proceedings that the Sevakram/Shewakram was the partner of Lekhraj Kirpalani and owed him money at the time.
Dear fluffy Bhai

If you are convinced from your documentary evidence, that Sevakram, was Dada Lekhraj's partner, and a member of the the Anti-Om Mandli Committee, that would make perfect sense to me. I cannot imagine Sevakram, would want to stay in an organisation, where he was in a disagreement with a powerful major member of it, DL, regarding such a fundamental issue, as the membership of the organisation... especially, when the members in question, would all be behind Dada Lekhraj, and not himself. It is therefore, not that suprising, if he did join the "anti" committee.

It's no wonder, Dadi Prakashmani took a broom to him(Baba Dixit - i may be exaggerating slightly here :D ), when he tried to re-join the BKs, 30 years later.

Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 31 Aug 2011

As always Nivi behan, I am enjoying your contributions to the forum.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by fluffy bunny » 31 Aug 2011

Personally, I don't believe the "Anti-Party" were an "anti-" party. I believe that they were a 'concerned' party, and I believe that they had every good reason to be concerned about what was going on. The BKWSU has lied so much about its beginnings and promotes an entirely false sequence of events. I suspect many of you agree with that.

Now we know that Lekhraj Kirpalani was promoting a personally cult based on him being God, or even "higher than an incorporeal god", it is no wonder that the responsible members of the Bhaibund were concerned. Concerned not just by his spiritualism ... there was all sort of weird psychic stuff going on, women screaming and hollering etc ... but also the way he handled his business/personal, e.g. taking his daughter back etc.

But I don't think Virendra Dev Dixit/PBK have the whole truth either.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 31 Aug 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:Now we know that Lekhraj Kirpalani was promoting a personally cult based on him being God, or even "higher than an incorporeal god"
This is interesting, in light of the teachings of AK; in as much as Brahma Baba, cannot reach his complete stage, until he has realised, he is not the God of the Gita. Although BB may consciously know he is not this; years of playing God in the early days of the Yagya; and then, many more being God's Chariot, and having all your devotees, believing you are God; must have left an incredibly deep and powerful impression on his soul, that he is still having to contend with, to this day. Perhaps this is also an explanation, for why he continues to interfere in AK... because he cannot help himself, when it comes to playing God!
fluffy bunny wrote:But I don't think Virendra Dev Dixit/PBK have the whole truth either.
We have you to keep us real though Bhai! :D

Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by warrior » 08 Sep 2011

OM to everyone here...

Dada Lekhraj was born in a place called SHAHI BAZAR in Sindh Hyderabad. The house is sited in the heart of Shari Bazar and is called Yasoda Niwas.
See photo here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/om_mandli/6126306306/

Also the Kirpalani Lane is very close to this house. Described here:
In Hyderabad, Amils and Bhaibands in a planned manner were allotted separate but adjacent areas for residential purposes. In the new capital, lanes in Amil and Bhaiband areas respectively were named after their prominent persons or their forefathers. Thus there were Advani Lane, Kripalani Lane, Mirchandani Lane, Shivdasani Lane and so on. Members of both communities owned properties and resided in their respective contiguous lanes very close to each other. Since there was no system of owning private vehicles in those days the lanes were narrow in which even tongas could not ply making communities live as well-knit compact units.http://www.amilsindhis.com/howamils.aspx
This much information is known to me so far.
All the best,

OGS

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