Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by arjun » 08 Sep 2011

warrior wrote:Dada Lekhraj was born in a place called SHAHI BAZAR in Sindh Hyderabad. The house is sited in the heart of Shari Bazar and is called Yasoda Niwas.
It seems like a renovated house.
Thanks for the info.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by warrior » 16 Sep 2011

arjun wrote: It seems like a renovated house.
Thanks for the info.
Dear brother,
This house is collapsing, only the front façade of house is standing, the roof and two floors caved in, only a small front room remains.

Om Shanti

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by sukshmbindu » 16 Sep 2011

fluffy bunny wrote: Will you wait until 2036 and then, if Destruction and Sat Yuga does not happen, will you give up?
...
How long does Creation take ... a few people will hold on until 2047 and then it will collapse for the majority...
i think creation(stapna)/age of *brahma/Sangamyug is for 100 yrs.(here age of brahma is not age of Dada Lekhraj but the age of his role as brahma)

once stapna is complete(i.e. 100yrs after the beginning of Yagya), shri Krishna takes birth(the soul of brahma baba having completed its mission as brahma leaves for Soul World Paramdham and returns to earth to be born as prince shri Krishna). He is the first leaf of the new Kalpa hence shown on peeepal leaf. so brahma baba is the first soul to be born in new Kalpa and all other souls will be born numberwise.

the beginning of new Kalpa has starts as soon as the birth of shrikrishna takes place.

but Satyug starts when prince shrikrishna will be coronated as emperor shrinarayan.
it was also told in some Murli that coronation takes place at the age of 30-35yrs.

i.e. Satyug starts 30-35 yrs after the beginning of new Kalpa.

also in some Murli it was told that pehle vinaash phir palana. i.e. creation(stapna)-vinaash(destruction)-palana(Golden Age).

since stapna is the creation of adi sanatan devi devta dharm by paramatma ShivBaba through the soul of shri Krishna(Dada Lekhraj/brahma baba), shiv baba's Murlis will continue till the end of sangam yug. once the soul of brahma baba reaches Paramdham(Soul World) shiv baba's role will not be there. i think Avyakt BapDada(nirakaar bindu swaroop ShivBaba+Avyakt farishta brahma baba) Murlis will continue till the end of sangam yug.

as said reharsels of destruction will start taking place in small amount actual mahabhari vinaash i.e. destruction on a large scale will take place after the sangum yug is complete when souls gradually migrate to Soul World. Few souls will however remain through whom next generation take birth.

After Sangamyug there will be no religion(any existing religion), even brahmakumari philosophy narrated by ShivBaba will not be there. However knowledge of soul n knowledge of science will be there. lot of transformation takes place in earth's crust and many mines of gold n diamonds are formed in the process. Great wealth is formed(may be based on individual deposits of Gyan ratn n gun moti in Subtle Region based on good deeds n good thoughts in sangam yug) and is found by individuals. Wonderful planes, one storeyed houses(due to very sparesly populated country) are constructed. Due to advanced scientific technology the energy is pollution free.

i.e. overall lifestyle in Satyug will be very luxurious but eco friendly.

the reconstuction of great capital indraprasta(Delhi) and the whole country takes place within 30-35 years after the heavy destruction. by 30-35 years a beautiful country is ready and the coronation takes place marking the beginning of Satyug.

i think it is also mentioned that the soul of brahma baba just touches the Soul World and immediately returns to corporeal world to take birth.

so if we have to date the events
1.beginning of sangam yug = beginning of Yagya = x
2.end of Sangamyug = completion of the role of brahma's 100 years = birth of shri Krishna = x+100
3.beginning of Satyug = x+100+35
arjun wrote:
"Shivraatri kahtey hain parantu Shiv ke badley Krishna ka naam kah diya hai ki Krishna ka janma raat ko hua. Hai ShivBaba kee baat. ShivBaba kee tithi taareekh vela ka kuchch bhi pataa nahee ki kis samay aaya. Krishna kee vela hai. Vah punarjanma may aaney vala hai. ShivBaba toh jhat aakar parichay deney lag padtey hain. Kuchch samay toh pataa hee nahee padaa ki yah kaun aaya hai? Kaun bol rahey hain? Baad may maaloom padaa ki yah toh ShivBaba gyaan ka saagar hai." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 23.11.07, pg 3)

“People say ‘Shivraatri’ but instead of Shiv they have mentioned the name of Krishna that Krishna was born in the night. (Actually) it is about ShivBaba. We do not know anything about the date and time of ShivBaba as to when He came. There is time (mentioned) for Krishna. He takes rebirth. ShivBaba comes and starts giving introduction at once. For some time it was not known as to who is it that has come. Who is speaking? It was known later that it is ShivBaba, the Ocean of Knowledge. (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.11.07, pg 3 published by BKs)

-------------------------------

Tum bachhey yah thodey hee kah sakengey – Baba nay kab inmay pravesh kiya. Jab sakshaatkaar hua tab aaya va kab? Saakshaatkaar toh Bhakti marg may bhi aisey hee hotey hain. Pataa nahee padta ki Baba kis samay aaya. Krishna kay aaney kee ghadee dikhaatey hain. ShivBaba kee ghadi aadi kuch hoti nahee. Baba toh maalik hai. Kab aatey hain, pataa nahee padta hai. Yahaan Murli say samajh jaatey hain. (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 27.03.07, pg.2)

You children would not be able to say – when Baba entered into him. Did He come when he had divine vision or when? Similar divine visions occur in the path of worship also. It cannot be known at what time Baba came. The time of the arrival of Krishna is depicted. There is no time, etc. for the arrival of ShivBaba. Baba is a Master. It cannot be known - when He comes. Here, it is guessed through Murli. (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.03.07, pg.2 published by BKs)

------------------------------

"Swayam Bhagwaan kahtey hain jab Bhakti poori ho tab mai aaun. Aadhakalpa Bhaktimarg chaltaa hai, din aur raat. Shuru may bhi pehley-pehley jab praveshataa hui (Maa ke roop may praveshata hoti thi) toh deevaaron par aisey-aisey chakra nikaaltey rahtey thay, jaisey chotey bachhey hotey hain. Samajh may kuch nahee aata tha. Ham tum sab babies thay, fir dheerey-dheerey buddhi may aata gayaa. Abhi tum padhkar hoshiyaar huay ho toh bilkul sahaj reeti samajha saktey ho. Aisey nahee samajhnaa yah bahut puraaney bachhey hain, isliye hamsey hoshiyaar hain. Ham toh itnaa padh nahee sakengey. Baba kahtey hain – pichaadi may aaney vaaley bahut aagey ja saktey hain. Deri say aaney vaaley aur hee din-raat Yoga may mast ho lag padengey." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 23.05.07, pg 3)

“God Himself says – I come when Bhakti completes. For half a Kalpa/cycle the path of devotion (i.e. Bhaktimarg) goes on, day and night. Even in the beginning, initially when there was entry (In the beginning entry used to take place in the form of mother), then he used to draw the pictures of World Cycle like this, just as there are small children. (He) Did not understand anything. You and I were all babies; then gradually it went on entering the intellect. Now you have studied and become intelligent. So, you can explain very easily. Do not think that - "These are very old children, that is why they are more intelligent than us. We will not be able to study to that extent." Baba says – Those who come late can gallop ahead (of others). Those who come late would become even more intoxicated in Yoga day and night.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 23.05.07, pg 3 published by BKs)
1.here shiv baba says that he immediately starts giving knowledge.
2.Murli indicates baba's arrival
Roy wrote:
“The Murlis have started since (the days of) Karachi(1947). Earlier Baba did not narrate Murlis(directly to the children). He(Dada Lekhraj) used to get up at 2 o’clock in the night and write 10-15 pages. The Father(Shiv) used to dictate(to him, DL - via a third party). Then they used to issue the copies(to the children of the Yagya).” [Mu 26.05.78][/color]

Roy
so can 1947 be taken as x i.e. beginning of Sangamyug
sukshmbindu wrote:
if we go by shivjayanti celebrations it is 1936, but few also say that since dadalekhraj said "nijananda roopam shivoham.." in 1932 after which he decided to retire can we take actual commencencement of Sangamyug as 1932..

kindly reply..
or is it 1936(based on shiv jayanti celebrations)
or should we consider 1932(when Dada's eyes became red and he said "nijananda roopam shivoham..")

the points discussed are
1.beginning of Sangamyug
2.beginning of new Kalpa
3.beginning of Satyug
4.Establishment of new civilization after destruction i.e. the construction of new capital and country
5.destruction and its phases

is it possible that destruction is possible within Sangamyug..because there is also some Murli point with shiv baba saying "mai sab ko vaapas lejaane ke liye hi aaya hoon"..

i somehow feel though minor destructions on small scale start in Sangamyug, as long as benevolent ShivBaba comes to corporeal world destruction on major scale will not start..also the first incarnated soul to return to Paramdham being brahmababa's soul, large scale destruction may not take place before the end of Sangamyug..because other than destruction of material on earth(buildings, vehicles,, machinery), drowning of low altitude landscapes, destruction would also means loss of lives(animals, fish, humanbeings, birds) so these souls also should be directed to peaceful place(Soul World/ shantidham/ Paramdham) but the souls are directed to Paramdham numbervaar (i.e.aligned one by one based on their highest possible consiousness i.e, the consciousness of the first birth of the corresponding soul). So first ShivBaba reaches Paramdham, then brahmababa's soul reaches Paramdham and then similarly all the souls reach sequentially all souls reach..

the highest consiousness of each soul is the consiousness at firth birth in the Kalpa(cycle of 5000yrs)
this stage is again reached at the end of the Kalpa before returning to Soul World.
the more divinity the soul exibits in thoughts and deeds, the more higher the consiousness is..
by the end of Sangamyug each soul gradually rises its consiousness level and finally becomes sampoorn i.e. complete in its corresponding highest posiible consiousness ..

kindly express your views.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 16 Sep 2011

Dear suksh Bhai

Here are a few Murli points to think about. The parts in brackets are my interpretations of these points, based on Advance Knowledge.

"Father(Shiv) says that I am the God of Gita. It was ShivBaba(at the very beginning of the Confluence Age, in 1936/7) who created Mother Gita(Adi Brahma-Jagadamba, when she was the first soul to be entered this Kalpa, by the Seed Father, God Shiv). Krishna(Dada Lekhraj) took (spiritual)birth(through Mother Gita). Along with him, Radha(Sita) and others come along. First there are Brahmins. Father says, “Who is the foolish person(BK after Brahma Baba's death in 1969), who has removed my name completely? Then, I only have to come and reveal that I, the Supreme Soul Shiva am the God mentioned in Gita. I have created Gita. The child Krishna(Brahma Baba-DL) took birth from Gita(Mata). You(BKs) have then added the name of child(Krishna-Pitashri-Brahma Baba, to the Murli) instead of Father(ShivBaba). This is the biggest mistake." [Mu 13.12.88]

“You children would not be able to say when Baba(Shiv) entered into him(Dada Lekhraj). Did He come when he had divine vision or when? Similar divine visions occur in the path of worship also(visions are not a sign of entry of Father Shiv, or the start of the Confluence Age). It cannot be known at what time Baba came. The time of the arrival of Krishna(Dada Lekhraj) is depicted. There is no time, etc.(known) for the arrival of ShivBaba. Baba is a Master. It cannot be known when He comes. Here, it is guessed through Murli.” [Mu 27.03.07]

"When did these Lakshmi-Narayan(Ram-Sita) rule? Neither in Kaliyug nor in Satyug(which is the time ruled by Radhe-Krishna/Mama-Brahma Baba). Heaven(Ramraj) is established(begins) in the Confluence Age." [Mu 16.11.71]

"Father(Shiv) is the creator of the Heaven, so he will surely give the inheritance of Heaven(Ramraj), and will give it in hell only(at the end of the Iron Age, in the last few years of the Confluence Age)." [Mu 9.06.74]

"This is the Confluence Age, a time for sinful to become pure, is not it? When they(Brahma Baba & Mama Saraswati, plus Baba Dixit & Sister Vedanti) become complete(karmateet at the end), then the new Kingdom, new (Confluence Aged)era(of Heaven-Ramraj) of Lakshmi & Narayan(Ram & Sita) begins, which is called Vishnupuri(the abode of Vishnu). Sustenance takes place(in the Confluence Age) through the two forms of Lakshmi & Narayan(i.e. Vishnu - Confluenced Aged Lakshmi & Narayan/Ram & Sita, plus Golden Aged Lakshmi & Narayan/Radhe & Krishna, who have at this point, shed their subtle bodies, and are revealed through the physical bodies, of Ram & Sita. This continues until Final Destruction in 2036; after which time, Radhe-Krishna are re-born in the Golden Age, as siblings... the children of Ram & Sita). [Mu 6.09.77]

"Some souls will become first class servants and maid servants also. First class servants and maid servants will look after Krishna(DL). Ram(Prajapita-Baba Dixit) too has to become the servant and maid servant of Lakshmi-Narayan(Radhe-Krishna of the Golden Age), because Lakshmi-Narayan passed(in the beginning of Yagya) whereas he(Ram-Baba Dixit) failed(in the beginning)." [Mu 3.05.73]

"Actually, Radha-Krishna(of Golden Age) are Prince-Princess. They are siblings. He(Krishna-Dada Lekhraj) cannot be called Radha's(Mama Saraswati's) husband. [Mu 10.12.72]

"Shri Krishna is in the first number; the first Prince(of the Golden Age). He becomes Shri Narayan, after reaching 20-25 years of age. For him, the full 84 births cannot be mentioned(because he lost 50 years of corporeal life. whilst playing Avyakt Brahma role). Number one is (Sangamyugi) Shri Krishna(Ram, who is in physical body, for the full 5000 years of the cycle)... Full 84 births of 5000 yrs, will be said for (Sangamyugi) Shri Krishna(Ram-Bharat) only." [Mu 10.09.01]

"Bharat(Confluenced aged Shri Krishna/Narayan) was the Master of the whole world(5 to 7 billion souls - not just the 900,000 souls, that Golden Aged Narayan-DL is) and there was no other King(at the end of the Confluence Age... between the Mahabharata, and Final Nuclear Destruction)." [Mu 9.09.77]

"There's a dangerous Mahabharata war too. It is mentioned in the scriptures also. And it’s called third world war(begins at the start of Ramraj of the Confluence Age). This rehearsal(shooting process during the Confluence Age) will continue(until the Mahabharata war begins). Fourth world war is also there(final nuclear destruction occurs some years later in 2036, after the period of Vishnupuri in the Confluence Age, which lasts for 18 years)." [Mu 1.07.73]

"The rehearsal(shooting) goes on till the kingdom(Ramraj-Heaven) is established." [Mu 4.02.76]

"The destruction(Mahabharata) will begin, when the knowledge is completed." [Mu 9.03.78]

"Father(Shiv) also has come for destruction, so will He leave His task in the middle(1969)? When the fire gets ignited(initially in 1936/7) and gets burnt completely(at the end, before the start of the Mahabharata War), then He(Shiv) will depart(first of all), everyone (else) shall depart(by 2036 - last to go will be Shankar-Narayan-Ram - see top of original Kalpa Tree picture), He(Shiv) will take everyone along. It has to take place certainly." [Mu 13.09.87]


Although it is clear to me that Ramraj commences in 2018, and i believe this equates to the time 111, which signifies the start of the new Kalpa; i think the Golden Age itself, doesn't officially begin until 2036/7, after final nuclear destruction; because until then, the Iron Age hasn't been completely destroyed.

Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by arjun » 17 Sep 2011

sukshmbindu wrote:After Sangamyug there will be no religion(any existing religion), even brahmakumari philosophy narrated by ShivBaba will not be there. However knowledge of soul n knowledge of science will be there. lot of transformation takes place in earth's crust and many mines of gold n diamonds are formed in the process. Great wealth is formed(may be based on individual deposits of Gyan ratn n gun moti in Subtle Region based on good deeds n good thoughts in sangam yug) and is found by individuals. Wonderful planes, one storeyed houses(due to very sparesly populated country) are constructed. Due to advanced scientific technology the energy is pollution free.
After the Sangamyug, there would be only the ancient deity religion in the world. As regards the luxuries that you are talking about, we PBKs are taught in the advance knowledge that there will not be any palaces, planes, inert jewelery, crowns or cornation, etc. but all the joys and comforts would be provided by mother nature.
so can 1947 be taken as x i.e. beginning of Sangamyug
Sangamyug is said to begin in 1936-37 only when Father Shiv incarnated in Prajapita Brahma (and not when Dada Lekhraj Brahma had visions). But Purushottam Sangamyug is said to begin in 1976-77 which was declared by Avyakt BapDada as the year of revelation of the Father. 2018 could be the year of beginning of the swarnim Sangamyug (golden Confluence Age) and 2036 is the date for final destruction and the commencement of the actual Golden Age.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 17 Sep 2011

arjun wrote:Sangamyug is said to begin in 1936-37 only when Father Shiv incarnated in Prajapita Brahma (and not when Dada Lekhraj Brahma had visions). But Purushottam Sangamyug is said to begin in 1976-77 which was declared by Avyakt BapDada as the year of revelation of the Father. 2018 could be the year of beginning of the swarnim Sangamyug (golden Confluence Age) and 2036 is the date for final destruction and the commencement of the actual Golden Age.
What does revelation mean?
For revelation there has to be understanding or/and experience. And the person who becomes nimitt or medium makes it happen. It is not that many people will reveal. The nimitt or the medium is said to be the one who revealed. And it was said that the nimitt or the medium will get prize for that.

But it is also said that first videshis will reveal The GodFather. And therefore it means that The GodFather got revealed in 1976 through a videshi Divine Father [ see old chakra (wheel) picture of the early yagnya times in Karachi] and not The Divine Fahter Prajapita Brahma.
As in the broad drama Divine Fathers of various religions tried to transform this world by the knowledge of The GodFather or by revealing The GodFather but were not successful; similarly The GodFather gets revealed by Divine Fathers of other religions and only in the end through The Divine Father Prajapita Brahma, who is the Father of all humanity, the whole world experience the true brotherhood and experience The Divine GodFather Shiv and get transformed.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by arjun » 17 Sep 2011

sachkhand wrote:But it is also said that first videshis will reveal The GodFather. And therefore it means that The GodFather got revealed in 1976 through a videshi Divine Father [ see old chakra (wheel) picture of the early yagnya times in Karachi] and not The Divine Fahter Prajapita Brahma.
As in the broad drama Divine Fathers of various religions tried to transform this world by The Knowledge of The GodFather or by revealing The GodFather but were not successful; similarly The GodFather gets revealed by Divine Fathers of other religions and only in the end through The Divine Father Prajapita Brahma, who is the Father of all humanity, the whole world experience the true brotherhood and experience The Divine GodFather Shiv and get transformed.
We (PBKs) have recognized the Father. If you wish you can wait for the Divine Father Prajapita Brahma to be revealed in the end.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 18 Sep 2011

arjun wrote: We (PBKs) have recognized the Father. If you wish you can wait for the Divine Father Prajapita Brahma to be revealed in the end.
It is said in A.V. (not exact words) that the nimitt soul (JagatPita) will play the part of establishing all the sects/ religions /races (?) of humanity and shall play it's part. And hence I think it is written in the earlier picture of wheel as "Divine Father" even for other religious fathers too other than Prajapita Brahma.

But establishing directly and through someone else makes difference and the manmat of the physical religious fathers gets mixed and hence it is not possible to reveal the true knowledge of The GodFather Shiv through those physical religious fathers. But in the end when Shiv gets revealed through Prajapita Brahma directly then the world gets transformed.

It is also said in Murlis that Bharatwasis get converted to other religions. But in the end all those who got converted to other religions will get back to their deity religion once again.

:neutral:
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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 19 Sep 2011

Some important points, that imo, prove that Brahma Baba(Dada Lekhraj), is not Prajapita Brahma.

N.B. The sections in brackets, are interpretations of the Murli points, based on my understanding of Advance Knowledge.

“The Father(of humanity, Prajapita) is called Ram.” [Mu 6.09.70]

"Actually my(Shiv's) name is not Ram. I am not worshipped (by people) keeping Ram in mind (this is the remembrance of Prajapita-Ram, of the Confluence Age). I am worshipped as Shiva or Rudra." [Mu 16.11.76]

"When there are two unlimited fathers(Shiv & Prajapita-Ram), then there should be two mothers also surely. One is Jagdamba(Gita Mata), secondly this Brahma(Baba-DL) is also a mother." [Mu 3.02.78; 8.02.78]

"People(BKs) say ‘Prajapita Brahma’. But they do not know him exactly(they are thinking of Brahma Baba). Whose child is Brahma(Baba-DL)? You will say that the Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiva has adopted him. He is a human being isn’t it? All the souls are the children of God. Then, after (the Supreme Soul) gets a body(Gita Mata-Jagadamba), he adopts Prajapita Brahma(Ram). That is not an adoption(as Prajapita Brahma is already Father Shiv's child). Supreme Father Supreme Soul has not adopted. You have been adopted(by Prajapita Brahma). You are Brahma Kumars Kumaris. ShivBaba doesn’t adopt." [Mu 11.11.71]

"This Brahma(Baba-DL) is adopted. Brahmins are (adopted) through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 6.02.71]

"It is explained, that through Brahma's(Prajapita-Ram's) body, Supreme Father Supreme Soul comes (and) adopts Brahma(Baba-DL, at the beginning of the Confluence Age). " [Mu 11.12.83]

“That one(Ram - not "this one", which Father Shiv says when He is referring to Brahma Baba His Chariot, up to 1969) is called Prajapita Brahma, through whom the creation(child Krishna-DL) is created at the beginning(of the Confluence Age in, 1936/7). He(Prajapita, Father of Humanity) is the Great-Great Grandfather(of all the religious fathers, who follow him throughout the broad Drama). ShivBaba can’t be called Great-Great Grandfather(as He is The Supreme Father of all souls - Parampita)” [Mu 3.05.72]

“Prajapita Brahma who is called Adam(Adi Dev), is called the Great-Great Grandfather” [Mu 6.02.76]

"It is this Brahma(Baba-Dada Lekhraj) who becomes Shri Krishna(first prince of the Golden Age). Brahma(Ram) is called Prajapita, the Father of the People. Krishna(Brahma Baba-DL) cannot be called this. Incorporeal God(Shiv) created Brahmins through the mouth of Brahma(Baba-DL). Shri Krishna was a small child(i.e. Brahma Baba wasn't good at churning Gyan). The God of the Gita is the Incorporeal Supreme Soul. The Krishna soul(Brahma Baba-DL) made effort and claimed that status(of first prince of the Golden Age). Only first-class children can explain this deep aspect tactfully." [Mu 01.02.03]

"ShivBaba bestows inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars through Prajapita Brahma(Father of Humanity-Ram). ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through Brahma(Mother-Dada Lekhraj)." [Mu 1.3.76]

"Prajapita Brahma(Ram) will be here(in corporeal form) only. His(Brahma Baba's) last birth is Lekhraj. He cannot become Prajapita(as he becomes the first class creation(child Krishna) of ShivBaba, via Prajapita, in the beginning of the Confluence Age)." [Mu 21.08.73]

"For as long as Brahma Kumar-Kumari's are in the physical body, Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is also in the physical body." [Mu 03.11.87]

"Creator(of Ramraj-Heaven) is not said for Brahma(DL)" [Mu 13.2.75]

"Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is also called creator(of Ramraj-Heaven)." [Mu 26.7.77]

"Prajapita Brahma, who’s a simple human being, is poor at the end of many births, isn’t it?(Unlike Brahma Baba-DL, who was wealthy and charismatic!) Now there are just khadi (handloom) clothes." [Mu 9.10.69]

"There is a support in the corporeal form(of Prajapita-Ram) even now. Just as earlier the instrumental corporeal body (of Brahma Baba-DL) was a support; similarly even now there is support in the corporeal form, who is made instrumental. Earlier also (some one was) instrumental only, even now (someone) is instrumental… Affection with the corporeal means affection with the entire family. The corporeal form is not alone. If Prajapita is present(in corporeal form), then the family is also present." [Av 18.01.70]

"Seeing both the Fathers(Shiv & Prajapita-Ram), eating, drinking, walking, talking, hearing, experiencing every character, seeing the invisible(Shiv) in the visible(Prajapita-Ram) through the corporeal eyes in the corporeal world, is a great luck of the Brahmin life(right up to the beginning of Ramraj, in 2018)." [Av 3.05.84]

"Baba(Shiv) doesn’t stay in him(Brahma Baba-DL) always(throughout the Confluence Age). Yes, He has a permanent Chariot(mukarrar rath - Prajapita-Ram). He’s called the Chariot of Hussein(The Beautiful or Benevolent One)." [Mu 15.08.72]

"This Chariot(Prajapita-Shankar) or throne of Akalmoort(the embodied, immortal one) is especially permanent(mukarrar rath)." [8.08.78]


Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 19 Sep 2011

Roy wrote:Some important points, that prove that Brahma Baba(Dada Lekhraj), is not Prajapita Brahma.

“The Father(of humanity, Prajapita) is called Ram.” [Mu 6.09.70]
.
.
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"This Chariot(Prajapita-Shankar) or throne of Akalmoort(the embodied, immortal one) is especially permanent(mukarrar rath)." [8.08.78]


Roy
Dear Roy,
you have at many instances written that you are just beginner and you cannot authoritatively about the Murli points or those are your personal views ets.,

But seeing your above reply it seems you very much understand Murli points as they are and you know without any ambiguity that who is who in the Murlis. Like who is Dada or Brahma or Shankar or Prajapita Brahma. If you know about them so accurately why not write about other Murli points also which contradict the above assumptions of the advance knowledge about who is who.

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2305#p39274

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 19 Sep 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:you have at many instances written that you are just beginner and you cannot authoritatively about the Murli points or those are your personal views ets.,But seeing your above reply it seems you very much understand Murli points as they are and you know without any ambiguity that who is who in the Murlis. Like who is Dada or Brahma or Shankar or Prajapita Brahma. If you know about them so accurately why not write about other Murli points also which contradict the above assumptions of the advance knowledge about who is who. viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2305#p39274
Dear Sanjeev Bhai

It is true that i consider myself a young(new) student of Gyan; in as much as having discovered AK only fairly recently, and also this forum; so much of what was being said was totally new to me. It took me several months or so, to truly realise(form a strong and clear opinion), that Shivsena Bhai's beliefs, were without foundation, based on what is contained within the Sakar Murlis. For one thing; Shivsena Bhai has thrown out 90% plus of what is said therein, and simply concentrated on a few points, that he feels give credence to his beliefs. But when it comes to AK, i feel i continue to progress, but the depth of my understanding remains fairly shallow and patchy; so i like to test my beliefs and understanding, by presenting them on this forum; so that PBKs, and non-PBKs alike, can challenge them, as they see fit. For one thing; although i have come to my conclusion about Shivsena's beliefs; i feel my interactions with him, helped me greatly in my studies; and reading others responses on his and other topics; have also very much aided this process. So i find this forum most conducive to learning, and furthering one's understanding.

You and i do not have a great history on here though Bhai; and although i hold no grudge against you, and wish we could get on better; i did say that i would no longer engage with you directly, as i felt our exchanges were becoming progessively negative, and unproductive. My point is, that imo, you appear to be a soul who is very often governed by his emotions, rather than his intellect. That is not to say you aren't an intelligent person, as you clearly are. I too am often guilty of this failing; but with the time it takes to post a comment, the intellect is given some space to regain control. So you either don't give yourself enough time to cool down, or you believe your reactions to others comments, are justifiable and Gyani. Either way, i often cannot agree with the way you conduct yourself. You have often shown humility, but the very next minute, are acting quite aggressively again. Shivsena Bhai and myself, although on totally different pages regarding Gyan; have never had any real difficulty with each other... so although our interactions have often been forthright, they remained quite cordial. We aim to steer clear, of being overly personal. But imo, you appear to regularly fall into the trap, of becoming overly emotional and personal.

With regard to the post you have highlighted; i did actually start to answer the questions you presented; but then remembered what i had said about interacting with you on here, and so stopped what i was doing. You have openly invited or challenged me to address your post; and to be honest, I am itching to have a crack at it, as they are interesting questions. But in light of what i've said here and our past history, i am reticent about re-engaging with you.

Despite my comments, i continue to wish you the best Bhai.

Om Shanti

Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 20 Sep 2011

Roy wrote:Dear Sanjeev Bhai

... Shivsena Bhai's beliefs, were without foundation, based on what is contained within the Sakar Murlis. For one thing; Shivsena Bhai has thrown out 90% plus of what is said therein, and simply concentrated on a few points, that he feels give credence to his beliefs.
The whole paragraph is unnecessary. I have just asked you to put your views on what I have written in another post which is based on Murli points. I have nowhere mentioned in my previous reply to you about what Shivsena does or does not do.
Roy wrote: You and i do not have a great history on here though Bhai;
I do not know about you but I can say for myself. I have good history. You can have your opinions. And the way you want to get personal instead of trying to give your views itself contradicts your expectation from others. I have seen such tactics being adopted by some members to discredit someone raising questions. I am bad and do not have good history. O.K. if that is accepted, still the questions I have raised in the link given in my previous reply remain. What kind of person raises doubts or questions regarding PBK explanation does not change the knowledge of PBKs. Does it? Or is the policy that only deity souls will be given explanation by PBKs and no explanations to normal Kaliyugi people?
Roy wrote: and although i hold no grudge against you, and wish we could get on better;
It is not possible by the way you have replied above. Just writing has no value. You actually need to be practical.
Roy wrote: i did say that i would no longer engage with you directly, as i felt our exchanges were becoming progessively negative, and unproductive.
The long sermon was unnecessary. Or the long explanation in your defense for not giving your views to my questions was unnecessary. You would have simply ignored my reply or stated that you are not interested in exchanging views with me. That was enough. But then you should also take care not to quote Murli points in response to my replies. Murli points can be (mis)used selectively. And the main thing I have raised about your previous reply is how can you dictate or write your explanation to Murli points in brackets as if you are authority or as if you know absolutely about the real meaning of those Murli points. You could have atleast written that it is what you think or it is what PBKs explain. Or it is what you feel to be correct.
If you are so much confident about your explanation based on your experiences and not just intellectual exercise then too I agree with that. But to me your reply seems just repeating the statements given by others and with authority. That combination is impossible. Authority can come only with experience. Whatever it may be. And it may change as yuo progress. But showing intellectual brightness in spirituality is futile.
Roy wrote:My point is, that imo, you appear to be a soul who is very often governed by his emotions, rather than his intellect. That is not to say you aren't an intelligent person, as you clearly are.
As written above, showing intellectual capacity is futile. I do purusharth on the basisof my experiences. I xpect the same from others. IMO being too much intellectual is dangerous.
Roy wrote:But imo, you appear to regularly fall into the trap, of becoming overly emotional and personal.
False allegation. Possibly you are trying to set the trap for me once again. Waste.
Roy wrote: With regard to the post you have highlighted; i did actually start to answer the questions you presented; but then remembered what i had said about interacting with you on here, and so stopped what i was doing.
Bye.
Roy wrote: You have openly invited or challenged me to address your post; and to be honest, I am itching to have a crack at it, as they are interesting questions. But in light of what i've said here and our past history, i am reticent about re-engaging with you.
That is not the way to proceed. The first step itself is wrong. There should not be itching, but love to have greater understanding. "It is not itching Dill pe Sahab raji but it is Sachhey Dil pe Sahab raji."

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Location: UK

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 20 Sep 2011

Okay sanjeev Bhai, your response has only confirmed for me, that i should have continued to ignore you, rather than remind you, why i am ignoring you.

You are also correct in pointing out; that it is accurate, to make it clear; that the parts in the Murli points that are in brackets; are my interpretations, based on the teachings of Advance Knowledge. I have now rectified this situation.

Roy

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 22 Sep 2011

Roy wrote: Okay sanjeev Bhai, your response has only confirmed for me, that i should have continued to ignore you, rather than remind you, why i am ignoring you.
Bye.
Roy wrote: You are also correct in pointing out; that it is accurate, to make it clear; that the parts in the Murli points that are in brackets; are my interpretations, based on the teachings of Advanced Knowledge. I have now rectified this situation.

Roy
Thank you.
It is better if you remove your interpretations which you have given in brackets in the Murli points you have quoted. I once again was reading those points and the words in brackets are causing disturbance in reading the Murli points. If you remove those words and give your interpretation of the Murli points below each point then it is better way to give your views. If it were just one or two words then it can be overlooked but you have written much more in the brackets.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 22 Sep 2011

"Prajapita Brahma(Ram) will be here(in corporeal form) only. His(Brahma Baba's) last birth is Lekhraj. He cannot become Prajapita(as he becomes the first class creation(child Krishna) of ShivBaba, via Prajapita, in the beginning of the Confluence Age)." [Mu 21.08.73]
Does anyone have this Murli point with some more sentences before and after these quoted sentences. If anyone have then please write it. PBKs in centres may surely have this Murli with them. It is good to clarify this point by giving some more sentences before and after this point. There is chance of misinterpretation with just the above quoted sentences. So whoever wants to know the actual truth and do no want to hide the truth should not hesitate to give more of this point.
I cannot expect this to be done by any BK (official) because they have never come out openly to discuss Murli points. Hope PBKs too will not follow them now.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

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