Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

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sita
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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by sita » 17 Sep 2011

To increase his influence he has encourage minor girls to be brought into so many mini-madhubans (mini-jails!).
Dear brother,

Why call mini madhubans mini jails when everyone is free to leave at any time. But where is one to go if one likes to leave the color of the company of the outside world?

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by arjun » 17 Sep 2011

roy wrote:This is a decision for their parents to make of course, just as many parents place their children in faith schools. Not only that... with such a short time left in the drama to make spiritual effort; it would be too late for these young people, by the time they are 18.
I think Baba has said in one of the Murlis that how can He wait for you to complete BA, MA?
fluffy-bunny wrote:Yes, I would agree with an "18 years old" rule ... unless, of course, the children were being saved from an even worse situation. In this case, I am sure there is nothing going on and suspect it is just a ridiculous waste of time and another stitch up.
Yes, in a way they are being saved. I cannot speak for the BKs, but in case of PBK mini-Madhubans most of the sisters come from poor or middle-class background. Unlike the BKs they are not asked any 'dowry' when they dedicate their life for Godly service. But they are provided all the basic facilities (food, clothing, healthcare, etc.). Besides, they are taught to use computers. They are taught languages, history, mathematics, etc. They are taught all kinds of works from kitchen work, cleaning, washing their own clothes to giving advance knowledge to freshers, etc. I have seen many sisters from poor families being given important responsibilities as soon as they gain experience. And unlike the BKWSU where every BK teacher becomes a king/queen of her own center, the PBK sisters are regularly transferred from one mini-Madhubans to the other and from one department (or responsibility) to the other so that they do not develop attachment for any particular place or person(s). This also helps them avoid ego. Now they are not coming out in public, but when the time comes, just as the Dadi/Didis came out and did Godly service after the 14 years bhatti, the PBKs sisters may also come out and do Godly service. Only then will their friends and relatives know as to what they were before joining AIVV and what they are now. Until then, the opponents and mediapersons are free to speculate about them.

And yes, I forgot to add one thing. When these children/sisters live in AIVV they are saved from the impure atmosphere that prevails in the outside world. With the kind of stuff being shown on TV and in films, magazines, newspapers, even primary school children have been adversely affected. We read or see news about rapes of minors by minors, killing of minors by minors almost everyday. Is this the kind of advanced education that we are providing in the schools?

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by satyaprakash » 20 Sep 2011

sita wrote:Why call mini madhubans mini jails when everyone is free to leave at any time.
arjun wrote:you are welcome to visit the court of City Magistrate, Fatehgarh, Farrukhabad and see the oral and written statements submitted by the Sisters (minor and major) and their parents
Step 1: Parents are fooled by this Godly philosophy having items of 'end of world', fear of death', Virendra Dev Dixit baba to save all, everywhere corruption except in mini-mbs, etc. They become followers of BK or PBK. (Note: I am not here to defend either of them as they are two rotten logs lying in the dirty waters. If some want to attack BKs or PBKs as one vs another it is their look out. I feel both are equally negative influence on the society).
Step 2: They think-as per the teaching of PBK- that having sex and children is a sin. Hence the best way to get rid of them is to put them in these mini jails!
Step 3: How can small girls of 9 or 10 years old decide to leave? Is it a joke when you say that they are free to leave. Why will parents be interested in freeing them? Because of their brain washing only they have put their child there! What oral statement from a small girl? Is it another joke?
Step 4: Dept of education, GOI, NCERT and other agencies have determined minimum floor areas for running classes for children. Further there are also requirements for minimum playground area for each child. It is very obvious that they do not even have place to lie down comfortably in their dingy mini-jails. They can not even meet 1/10 of the minimum standards prescribed. Is it not a jail? Are they not better off in their own place even if it is only a hut? Shutting up young children in such buildings is itself a criminal offense. The real culprits for this cruelty should be put in real jails for such criminal acts.
Step 5: The offense of sexual exploitation of children is different and can be separately punished if proved. Compulsory and forced spinsterhood thrust on the hapless older girls is itself a sexual offense and we will soon start hearing charges on this account also. The natural and socially recognised sex outlet is marriage. If that is prevented on a mass scale, then it is only suppression or perversion and not any great spiritual progress. Buddhism collapsed because bachelorhood was forced on all. Every one in Bhuddha viharas became sexually corrupt. Result: Budhism was driven out of India for good!
Step 6: The best thing thing that is happening now is a social awareness and some hard opposition to such negative activities. Offense is a good way of defense against such negative organisations spreading falsehood and stories in the name of Gnan. May such opposition increase! It is good for the children, parents and the society.
Satya

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by pbkindiana » 21 Sep 2011

Satyaprakash wrote:
Step 1: Parents are fooled by this Godly philosophy having items of 'end of world', fear of death', Veerendra Dev Dixit Baba to save all, everywhere corruption except in mini-mbs, etc. They become followers of BK or PBK. (Note: I am not here to defend either of them as they are two rotten logs lying in the dirty waters. If some want to attack BKs or PBKs as one vs another it is their look out. I feel both are equally negative influence on the society).
Those whose motive to point a finger at spiritual organizations which operates uncorrupted are being fooled by hearsay. Even the educated ones like you are easily fooled by hearsay and make a commotion out of nothing. You type of people just waste your time by joining this forum to condemn someone based on hearsay.
Step 2: They think-as per the teaching of PBK- that having sex and children is a sin. Hence the best way to get rid of them is to put them in these mini jails!
Please do not speak about sex as sex in India is making India the no.1 country for HIV and over populated. It is better not to have sex when Indian men in rural areas get drunk are unable to differentiate between their wives and daughters and force themselves on their daughters. is not it beneficial by encouraging these young girls into spiritual organization where their safety is not jeopardize?
Step 3: How can small girls of 9 or 10 years old decide to leave? Is it a joke when you say that they are free to leave. Why will parents be interested in freeing them? Because of their brain washing only they have put their child there! What oral statement from a small girl? Is it another joke?
When young girls of age 10 and 11 in rural areas become pregnant, then cannot they give clear verbal statements of any situations. These young girls are fully able to give clear statements as their minds are uncorrupted. What else do you expect?

Step 4: Dept of education, GOI, NCERT and other agencies have determined minimum floor areas for running classes for children. Further there are also requirements for minimum playground area for each child. It is very obvious that they do not even have place to lie down comfortably in their dingy mini-jails. They can not even meet 1/10 of the minimum standards prescribed. Is it not a jail? Are they not better off in their own place even if it is only a hut? Shutting up young children in such buildings is itself a criminal offense. The real culprits for this cruelty should be put in real jails for such criminal acts.


Is it a criminal offence by teaching spirituality to young girls in an organization or is it a criminal offence to recruit young children for labour as child labour is prevalent in India. I have even heard girls as young as 12 become prostitutes as these children are forced to find some income to support their poor families. You have no ears and eyes to see that pathetic situation for child labour and teenage prostitution but you have all ears and eyes to find faults on AIVV.
Step 5: The offense of sexual exploitation of children is different and can be separately punished if proved. Compulsory and forced spinsterhood thrust on the hapless older girls is itself a sexual offense and we will soon start hearing charges on this account also. The natural and socially recognised sex outlet is marriage. If that is prevented on a mass scale, then it is only suppression or perversion and not any great spiritual progress. Buddhism collapsed because bachelorhood was forced on all. Every one in Bhuddha viharas became sexually corrupt. Result: Budhism was driven out of India for good!
In AIVV, there is no forcing of girls to surrender and any girls are free to leave whenever they wish. It is better not to get married than marrying as in India in rural areas, men marry and then abandon their wives and embrace sanyas and these sanyasis roam all over India not even giving a thought that 'till death do we part.' You are telling that buddhists are sexually corrupted but what about married men who are not satisfied with one wife both in the urban and rural areas. I have heard that men and women in rural areas practise polygamy. By eliminating Buddhism out of India, did it help HIV in India to have a nose-dive?
Step 6: The best thing thing that is happening now is a social awareness and some hard opposition to such negative activities. Offense is a good way of defense against such negative organisations spreading falsehood and stories in the name of Gnan. May such opposition increase! It is good for the children, parents and the society
.

You are comdemning AIVV where this spiritual organization is helping girls to ensure their safety but you are blind to the extent you are unable to eliminate atrocities such as bride-torching, dowry, killing of baby girls, child labour, malnutrition, education system -- preference is given to boys more, HIV -- prostitution.

All i can conclude that your intention is to condemn AIVV without any hard facts just because it contradicts to your beliefs. You are here to kill your time for your own entertainment by finding faults on others, rather than uplifting one poor family and looking into their needs. As one American author said that the rich families and moderate families in India can adopt one poor family to upgrade India.

So doesn't that education and your religious beliefs help you to speak sensibly?

indie.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by satyaprakash » 21 Sep 2011

pbkindiana wrote: is it a criminal offence to recruit young children for labour as child labour is prevalent in India. I have even heard girls as young as 12 become prostitutes as these children are forced to find some income to support their poor families. You have no ears and eyes to see that pathetic situation for child labour and teenage prostitution
pbkindiana wrote:married men who are not satisfied with one wife both in the urban and rural areas. I have heard that men and women in rural areas practise polygamy. By eliminating Buddhism out of India,
Dear pbkindia,
There are many crimes going on in India and every other country in the world. You have listed some. So, Some of those crimes justify whatever is happening in PBK! Good logic.
It is the usual practice to point at some wrong things in other places and say PBK is better! Compared to murderers and sister rapists, the PBK may be better. Are you satisfied with this type of comparison? Is it not better to compare with good people and say you are better?
pbkindiana wrote: You type of people just waste your time by joining this forum to condemn someone
Should everyone in this forum only support PBK? You can go to Virendra Dev Dixit baba and every one there will support him. If it is a open forum, you may have to face criticism also. I know how to use my time. I am not wasting it! It make educated PBKs like you try to answer some uncomfortable questions!
pbkindiana wrote:rather than uplifting one poor family and looking into their needs.
How many poor families have you PBKs uplifted? Have their poverty gone? do not tell me that you are giving gnan. Can they eat your gnan?
pbkindiana wrote: you are unable to eliminate atrocities such as bride-torching, dowry, killing of baby girls, child labour, malnutrition,
Have the BKs or PBKs eliminated any of the above? Have you tried atleast? Other than forcing your so called gnan down their throats, what service have you PBKs done?
Satya.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by arjun » 21 Sep 2011

satyaprakash wrote:Step 3: How can small girls of 9 or 10 years old decide to leave? Is it a joke when you say that they are free to leave. Why will parents be interested in freeing them? Because of their brain washing only they have put their child there! What oral statement from a small girl? Is it another joke?
Dear brother,
You are an educated person and must be reading newspapers everyday. You can find ample court cases where minor children of legally separated parents are allowed to choose whether they wish to stay with the mother or the Father, irrespective of the gender of the child. There you never argue that how can a child decide which parent is beneficial for it. But when a child and her parents wish to pursue spiritual education at AIVV you point fingers. Is it justified?

Everyone is aware that Madrasas have been functioning in every nook and corner of India where till recently most of them used to give knowledge of just Islam and even governments (both state and central) give aid to such Madrasas. So, why do you object if AIVV is helping some girls in their overall development with its own resources while taking care of their basic needs?
Step 4: Dept of education, GOI, NCERT and other agencies have determined minimum floor areas for running classes for children. Further there are also requirements for minimum playground area for each child. It is very obvious that they do not even have place to lie down comfortably in their dingy mini-jails. They can not even meet 1/10 of the minimum standards prescribed. Is it not a jail? Are they not better off in their own place even if it is only a hut? Shutting up young children in such buildings is itself a criminal offense. The real culprits for this cruelty should be put in real jails for such criminal acts.
No. It is not a jail. Had it been most of the girls and their parents would have taken them back home. And the mini-Madhubans in question, i.e. the Farrukhabad mini-Madhubans was a bit crowded because the mini-Madhubans at Kampil (situated in the same district) is being reconstructed and is being given final touches. As soon as it's ready, most of the sisters from Farrukhabad MM would have shifted to Kampil MM, which would also henceforth act as the All-India training center where bhattis would be organized. Most other mini-Madhubans have ample space.

The problem is that the new Minimadhbans are not getting ready at the same pace as the influx of surrendered sisters and mothers. And since Baba never begs for money just as all other religious organizations (including BKWSU) do, we have to manage with our own limited resources. We neither seek money from general public nor the government. So, why not leave the management of our centers to the members, i.e. PBKs?
Step 5: The offense of sexual exploitation of children is different and can be separately punished if proved. Compulsory and forced spinsterhood thrust on the hapless older girls is itself a sexual offense and we will soon start hearing charges on this account also. The natural and socially recognised sex outlet is marriage. If that is prevented on a mass scale, then it is only suppression or perversion and not any great spiritual progress. Buddhism collapsed because bachelorhood was forced on all. Every one in Bhuddha viharas became sexually corrupt. Result: Budhism was driven out of India for good!
PBKs are not suppressing their sexual desires but learning to convert the sexual energy into spiritual energy for the benefit of the self and others.
You cannot compare PBKs with Buddhist nuns and monks because here we live with our spiritual parents and married male and female PBKs. So, it is more of a family than a monastery. Well, since you have not entered the mini-Madhubans how can you understand the brotherhood and the feeling of one family that is prevalent among PBKs?
Step 6: The best thing thing that is happening now is a social awareness and some hard opposition to such negative activities. Offense is a good way of defense against such negative organisations spreading falsehood and stories in the name of Gnan. May such opposition increase! It is good for the children, parents and the society.
You are free to oppose till your last breath. :D

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by satyaprakash » 21 Sep 2011

arjun wrote:You can find ample court cases where minor children of legally separated parents are allowed to choose whether they wish to stay with the mother or the Father, irrespective of the gender of the child.
Here the court is giving the child two choices and asking it to choose freely. But in case of AIVV the parents and the PBKs keep telling the child that it is very good to stay in those confines. Did any independent person give the child any opportunity to decide? So the example is invalid.
arjun wrote:Madrasas have been functioning in every nook and corner of India where till recently most of them used to give knowledge of just Islam and even governments (both state and central) give aid to such Madrasas.
The GOI gives aid only if all subjects (other than Islam) are also taught. There is a huge criticism on these Madrasas from all quarters. Most of the terrorists have emerged from these places only. Do you want similar things in PBK?
arjun wrote:Most other mini-Madhubans have ample space.
I have seen a few of these and they were all very crowded. Where is ample space? Earlier you have yourself agreed in another posting that they are not allowed outside to play or interact with the world. Shutting up like this is done in JAILS only.
arjun wrote: And since Baba never begs for money just as all other religious organizations (including BKWSU) do, we have to manage with our own limited resources. We neither seek money from general public
Not true. People are told that giving to Yagya is the best thing in life and they put currency in closed covers and give it to Virendra Dev Dixit baba. No receipts are given for such collections. Other religious heads also collect money from their donors. (they at least give receipts!). Hence PBK is no different. Do not claim that PBK is running without any money from any one.
more later....

Satya

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by sita » 21 Sep 2011

Dear brother satyaprakash,

The closed atmosphere is for the sake of the course, only for 7 days. One cuts himself so that he can concentrate on the knowledge and don't think of anything else, in the same way as scientist enters laboratory and makes experiments in isolated atmosphere. And this course is not compulsory to anyone, but after this course everyone is free to leave and go anywhere. There is no requirenment to stay in ashram to follow this knowledge, but on the contrary, one is encouraged to live at home with his family and the precentage of people following the knowledge like this is very much more than those in ashram.

You say there are no receipts for money, but this is not legal organization and no taxes and accounting is included in this. It is a spiritual family and just like at home if my mother or Father give me money or i give them no receipts are required and it is not called a donation. But still anyone coming for course is offered the course free of charge and given food and shelter for free and nothing is expected from him, he is free to leave and never return but he is respected as brother and part of the family.

In the PBK, people learn they should not complain about their lives and they get enthusiasm to change their lives for the better themselves, on their own. What if food is given daily to the poor, through this they will not grow independent, but dependent. You can fill the stomach, it is not something special, but if you don't fill the stomach of the intellect you are not really helping the person. People in the PBK are being thought that knowledge is not for speaking, but for practical life, so they don't engage in debate like the politicians and they also show example of modest life. You show the good examples we are to follow and with which we are to compare, but even better you show by your own doing this.

Celibacy has been practiced for centuries but it has not brought benefit. Marriage also has been practiced, according to you, with greater benefit, but it is wrong if one is forced to marry. Celibacy has never been forced to anyone, but because of the customs and systems of the world, people are forced to marry. You say family decides for the child, it can decide for marriage, why not for celibcy. But there are also mature people who take decisions for themselves and they have the right to follow their path.

The regulations about minimum space etc. you quote have only recently been introduced. It is easy to issue regulation, but money, time, energy and effort are required to comply. Still if in some place regulations are not fully observed, but still education is being thought, will you close this place? The law for 18 years is also man-made. It is not that on the day after 18th birthday, a person becomes independent. Now children are more mature even earlier and it depends on the individual. There is also difference in each family in the level that each child is left independent.

It is a difficult question you pose, what is to be done if family is bad, should the government protect the child etc. But what if the government is bad, what if the laws and regulations, what if the traditions and habits are wrong and bad? You say people are fooled about end of the world, but if such practice helps that one changes his life it is good. What is the motive to change ourselves, why, why not live as we do. But as Roy Bhai has said, you don't even need some Baba to tell you about the end of the world. I am amazed how people can live comfortably, when there are so many problems and they don't see where humanity is heading.

We don't say we are special, we will be saved etc. Whatever we do is not a secret, anyone can do it, whatever we say we say openly. We believe the world will be uplifted with the cooperation of every one. If we are uplifted the whole world will be uplifted, if the world degrades we also degrade with it. We don't believe we will run away and hide away from society to achieve our benefits on our own, in jelousy. But we try to do our share and we believe in a bright future, what is so bad about it. We believe that every soul is to becomes perfect. If we become perfect, everyone will become.

We are ordinary people and live ordinary life. It is easy to criticise from aside, but it is difficult to act and make mistakes and change oneself. You have many complains, but it is as if we are the source of all evil on earth that if we are wiped away the planet will become heaven. You are right. We are the greatest evil, we, people, we, the enemies of one another and if we don't change the world will not become heaven, but if we change, why not? But it is always others that are wrong, we never, isn' it. Let's attack and change the world! But you can call and gather the whole government, the whole police and army with you in your attacks, but still you will not become more right through doing this.

Knowledge is greatest treasure, the result of knowledge is right actions that bring benefit. Conditions and situations of everyone are results of his own acts. When there is ignorance, there are wrong acts and bad results. By changing mentality, attitude etc, actions are changed, and destiny is changed. It seems to be very easy to change mentallity, but it is not so, but mind, thoughts are seeds of every action. It may be difficult to earn livelihood, but not so difficult to help people, I believe everyone will have such empathy so that to help the poor ones by giving them food, clothes and shelter, it does not require much really. But it is difficult to change the poor ones who are poor in the sense of that they are not virtuous. If we change our mentality and our vision for others changes and even if someone is not virtuous he may change and reap results of his own actions. We don't believe the world can change through speaking or action, but through the power of the vibrations of the mind. Тhere is spiritual atmosphere in India, but this must be coming from some spiritual people living there, spreading such vibrations and such vibrations should reach the whole world.

For us, all the aspects of knowledge have unlimited meaning. Being immortal is a matter of faith, it means to have unsheakable faith, if we have such faith we will also be immortal. Language is of knowledge, race, land is not about the phisical land and race. But you deliberetely take points and twist them in such interpretation to prove we are the worst people, instead of trying to understand. If you have gone to a PBK place you must have seen people are not monsters there, our Baba also , atmosphere is good, people are friendly. But if anyway you don't find it some valuable information like knowledge, then, please, leave margin for people to demonstrate their wisdom by the practcial example of their doing, of their lives, through virtuous behavior. You already must have observed that despite your inappropriate behavior that you come to a BK-PBK place to throw stones to BK-PBKs, still you are accepted politely and friendly etc. You are even mocking the poor health of our Baba who is having his teeths falling, that is not something to be taken as argument? I have the same problem with teeth falling, but if you take this as prooof that efforts i make are not good i won't accept. You think that through your attacks you are creating a better world, so we have no choice but to tolerate your ways on how a better world is to be created, but then you cannot deny our right to do whatever we see fit according to our standarts of a better world.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by Roy » 21 Sep 2011

Excellent post sita Bhai.

The point i'd like to highlight; is that the consensus in the world is; that we have to tackle aids, or poverty, or whatever ills people are suffering from; but this is attempted, without the understanding, of the deep root causes of such suffering. India may be the most spiritual country in the world; but its original, ancient teachings, have long been obscured, by manmat, falsity and corruption. So only when these causes, are once more truly understood and accepted, can there be a real and lasting transformation, in peoples lives. Money, is only a temporary fix at best; especially if it is not used with true understanding. There is of course a place for this, but it is not the ultimate answer.

The PBKs are not about donating money(they have very little themselves); they are about donating knowledge, virtues and power to the world. This is in fact, the highest charity one can bestow... the power to take control of ones own life, once again. Money alone, can never achieve this.

Roy

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by arjun » 22 Sep 2011

satyaprakash wrote:Here the court is giving the child two choices and asking it to choose freely. But in case of AIVV the parents and the PBKs keep telling the child that it is very good to stay in those confines. Did any independent person give the child any opportunity to decide? So the example is invalid.
Yes, it is for this very purpose that the City Magistrate, Farrukhabad District, Fatehgarh is carrying out a suo-moto investigation where everyone was invited to give their views about the AIVV. Apart from statements given against AIVV by general public who never visited any of the centers of AIVV, the minor and major virgins, mothers and brothers living in the Farrukhabad center of AIVV, the parents of the minor girls were also called to give their statements and the children were asked by the Court whether they wish to live in the ashram or whether they want to live at their parents house, they told the court that they wish to live at the ashram. If you wish you can visit the Court and check the records. But please don't spread lies and rumours just to take any kind of personal revenge.
The GOI gives aid only if all subjects (other than Islam) are also taught. There is a huge criticism on these Madrasas from all quarters. Most of the terrorists have emerged from these places only. Do you want similar things in PBK?
But there are thousands of Madrasas where only Islam is taught. What is the government doing to stop such centers from producing terrorists, if any?
And what about the hundreds of gurukuls and Buddhists monasteries where minor children are taught only Hinduism or Buddhist literature? Would you also say that they produce terrorists?
Satyaprakash Bhai, please be careful before giving such controversial statements which you cannot prove in courts of law. If you are really fearless, give your real identity and file written complaints with the police or government authorities. Otherwise, you can be tried in court for defaming AIVV with such baseless allegations.
I have seen a few of these and they were all very crowded. Where is ample space? Earlier you have yourself agreed in another posting that they are not allowed outside to play or interact with the world. Shutting up like this is done in JAILS only.
They are not allowed to play in the outside world, but they can definitely interact and play with the children and daughters of the PBKs coming to the ashram. Many young children (aged less than 10) come to the local mini-Madhubans from far flung areas every Sunday. And they all feel very happy throughout the time they are in AIVV. They run around and even laugh in the classes. Hundreds of Discussion Classes are a proof where even small children freely ask questions to Baba and Baba answers them seriously, patiently and of course with a bit of humour.
Not true. People are told that giving to Yagya is the best thing in life and they put currency in closed covers and give it to Veerendra Dev Dixit Baba. No receipts are given for such collections. Other religious heads also collect money from their donors. (they at least give receipts!). Hence PBK is no different. Do not claim that PBK is running without any money from any one.
I never claimed that AIVV is run without money from anyone. I said we don't beg from outsiders like you do in every religious place. We manage our centers with our own money. And as sister sita has pointed out, being a family receipts are not necessary. Yet, every paisa is accounted for.

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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by pbkindiana » 22 Sep 2011

satyaprakash wrote:
So, Some of those crimes justify whatever is happening in PBK! Good logic.
It is the usual practice to point at some wrong things in other places and say PBK is better! Compared to murderers and Sister rapists, the PBK may be better. Are you satisfied with this type of comparison? Is it not better to compare with good people and say you are better
The PBKs do not compare themselves with others as we are trying our very best to become perfect with God's teachings. And there is never any crimes in AIVV that will jeopardise the sisters' safety. The only mistakes that the sisters do are simple ones for eg. anger, jealousy, sometimes no cooperation, laziness, thats all. There are no crimes done that have to be reported to the police. So you are commenting only on hearsay and not on hard evidences as you are gullible and easily fooled by rumours.
Should everyone in this forum only support PBK? You can go to Veerendra Dev Dixit Baba and every one there will support him. If it is a open forum, you may have to face criticism also. I know how to use my time. I am not wasting it! It make educated PBKs like you try to answer some uncomfortable questions!
If you are interested to question the PBKs on hard evidences, then the PBKs will be responding to you with the exact information but you are posting illogical remarks based on hearsay. Also you are continuously posting unwanted comments about something which had not happened.
How many poor families have you PBKs uplifted? Have their poverty gone? do not tell me that you are giving gnan.
Advanced knowledge has helped those who are interested on the quest of truth and so many feel peaceful and the most fundamental fact is that we PBKs understand the reasons for our unhappiness and try to overcome of it by Advanced Knowledge's teachings.
Can they eat your gnan?
This shows your immaturity.
Have the BKs or PBKs eliminated any of the above? Have you tried atleast? Other than forcing your so called gnan down their throats, what service have you PBKs done?
Yes, Advanced knowledge has helped so many of those being peaceless to have some peace of mind according to our Yoga. Whether we have food or not, to have peace of mind is the most fundamental aspect for humanity. When human beings receive peace of mind, then everything comes accordingly. AIVV never compels anyone to take our knowledge. If anyone is interested, then AIVV is most happy to impart AK ie. the food for the mind. The main teaching of Advanced knowledge is to practice soul-consciousness and the more we inculcate it, the more we receive peace, prosperity and happiness.

indie.

satyaprakash
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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by satyaprakash » 22 Sep 2011

pbkindiana wrote:Quote pbkindiana
pbkindiana wrote:So you are commenting only on hearsay and not on hard evidences as you are gullible and easily fooled by rumours.
Dear pbkinde,
You are not replying to any points raised by me. You keep telling some things which is not of relevance for this topic of Farukkabad jail.
others have replied with some points supporting pbk. I will reply to them later. But for your post I do not know how many threads should be started! Hence I am unable to reply to you. You seem to be based outside of India and you cannot understand my replies also, as is clear from your criticism of everything in India.
Regards,
Satya.

satyaprakash
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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by satyaprakash » 22 Sep 2011

arjun wrote: But please don't spread lies and rumours just to take any kind of personal revenge.
Which are the lies and rumours? Revenge on whom and for what? Is pointing out illogical and absurd beliefs a revenge?
arjun wrote:give your real identity and file written complaints with the police or government authorities. Otherwise, you can be tried in court for defaming AIVV with such baseless allegations.
There is a large group of people who entered the Farukkabad mini-jail, which you call mini-mb, and caused damage there. They also went to police with complaints. You know their identity very well! Please file defamation cases on ALL OF THEM. Have you done that? Why are you hiding in a corner? do not MAKE EMPTY THREATS. You (PBKs) will only get into more trouble!
arjun wrote:we don't beg from outsiders like you do in every religious place
Which ashram is begging from outsiders? If Virendra Dev Dixit baba receives covers with money then it is called what? Voluntary? Are other ashram people forcibly taking money from donors? Why you are talking as if every swamiji in every ashram is a beggar and your Virendra Dev Dixit is a king?
arjun wrote:Yet, every paisa is accounted for
Who has the account? In which bank account is it lying in? In whose name? When income is not recorded how can you account for it? How much is diverted and how much is accounted for? Who knows the truth? Virendra Dev Dixit baba?
Wherever you is mentioned- read as pbk. Nothing personal for revenge! Please do churning on these points!
Satya.

satyaprakash
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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by satyaprakash » 22 Sep 2011

Dear sister Sita,
sita wrote:The closed atmosphere is for the sake of the course, only for 7 days. One cuts himself so that he can concentrate on The Knowledge and don't think of anything else, in the same way as scientist enters laboratory and makes experiments in isolated atmosphere. And this course is not compulsory to anyone, but after this course everyone is free to leave and go anywhere.
Can a 7 year old attend these 7 day classes and get gnan? If yes, then why are these children held there permanently?
sita wrote:anyone coming for course is offered the course free of charge and given food and shelter for free and nothing is expected from him
Nice! Only they are told that it is wonderful to give to Yagya of Virendra Dev Dixit and they voluntarily put money in civers and give it without ant receipt!
sita wrote:You say there are no receipts for money, but this is not legal organization and no taxes and accounting is included in this. It is a spiritual family and just like at home if my mother or Father give me money or i give them no receipts are required and it is not called a donation.
Even in a family we keep account of income and expenses! PBK's income is large and only secret accounts (as per Arjun) are kept! Why? If every thing is done honestly then why no accounts are kept? There are thousands of ashrams and spiritual organisations like the Ramakrishna mission in Kolkatta. They all have perfect accounts. What is speacial about pbk? why should non-PBKs believe that every pbk is honest and no account is needed?
sita wrote:The regulations about minimum space etc. you quote have only recently been introduced.
Sorry madam. They are there for more than 50 years.
sita wrote: whatever we say we say openly.
Is it published clearly? Where is the material covering your 7 day course? Is it a secret? Can you publish your beliefs on Hindus and other religions in a book and inform Arjun? He is an expert in defamation cases and he knows what will happen!
sita wrote:We don't say we are special, we will be saved etc
Again wrong. When this age ends only PBKs will be saved. Please ask Arjun as he has confirmed it to me. Others will have to become PBKs to be saved!
sita wrote:Knowledge is greatest treasure
Please have correct knowledge and not duplicate and tailored stuff given to you as knowledge!
Thanks sister for taking time to give a detailed reply. I am nor responding to all points. Other replies are similar.
It may be better if all PBKs speak in the same voice. Each one is telling a new story about PBK? which is correct?
Regards,
Satya.

pbkindiana
PBK
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Re: Minor girls recovered from UP spiritual school: BKWSU plot?

Post by pbkindiana » 22 Sep 2011

satyaprakash wrote:
You are not replying to any points raised by me. You keep telling some things which is not of relevance for this topic of Farukkabad jail.
others have replied with some points supporting PBK. I will reply to them later. But for your post I do not know how many threads should be started! Hence I am unable to reply to you. You seem to be based outside of India and you cannot understand my replies also, as is clear from your criticism of everything in India.
Regards,
Satya.
You are just digging for any information that can tarnish the AIVV image when there is nothing to tell you and others as nothing weird or any crimes have taken place in AIVV. AIVV is a clean spiritual organization where the students are taught to focus on soul consciousness and the teachings. No one is compelled to join the AIVV Yagya and those sisters who are there have joined voluntarily based on their interest in Advanced knowledge teachings. If any sisters decide to leave the Yagya, they are free to leave. So your comments based on speculation is just illogical and irrelevant.

indie.

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