Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
Post Reply
User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 22 Sep 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:It is better if you remove your interpretations which you have given in brackets in the Murli points you have quoted. I once again was reading those points and the words in brackets are causing disturbance in reading the Murli points. If you remove those words and give your interpretation of the Murli points below each point then it is better way to give your views. If it were just one or two words then it can be overlooked but you have written much more in the brackets.
Dear Sanjeev Bhai

Thank you for your opinion on this matter.

I would be interested to know, if others feel the same way, about this style of presentation of interpretations of Murli points; as I am in the process of compiling points, in order to use them, to create a sort of narrative, of the story of the Confluence Age. I have used separate colours in order to distinguish the Murli text in blue, from the interpretations in green, based on Advance Knowledge; and it is written in quite bold type, for ease of reading. There are also sections of further explanation, in a third colour.

I would be grateful for any feedback about this.

Roy

Sach_Khand
Posts: 571
Joined: 02 May 2010
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Seeking Truth and Truth only.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 27 Oct 2011

Roy wrote:"The Father says – at the age of 60 years of this one(Brahma Baba-DL), at the end of the last one of many births, when he reaches the stage of vaanprasth (retirement), I have entered in him(in Karachi in 1947). Only then did he too leave everything." [Mu 14.11.07]
Roy
According to the BK knowledge,
Number of births in Kaliyug are 42.
Duration of Kaliyug is 1250.
So, 1250 divided by 42 we get approx. 30 years for each birth in Kaliyug.

What does it mean?

In the above Murli point it is said that at the age of 60 years Shiv enters Brahma. But acording to BK knowledge average life of Deity souls in Kaliyug is around 30 years. So what does the age 60 years mean? Is it just the age of physical body or is there some deeper meaning?

Just some maths in BK knowledge and Hindu beliefs,
There are 60 samvatsars according to Hindus,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samvatsara
also see,
http://shivomindia.tripod.com/yugadi/Yugadi-3.htm
http://vedabase.net/s/samvatsara

Duration of one Kalpa cycle according to BKs is 5000 years.
Samvatsars are 60.
5000 divided by 60 we get 83 samvatsars (of sixty years each) and 20 years remaining. These 20 years can be considered as Sangamyugi life of 1st birth which is later followed by 83 births (samvatsars) of sixty years each.

But is there any connection with the age of Brahma before Shiv gets in him?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

Sach_Khand
Posts: 571
Joined: 02 May 2010
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Seeking Truth and Truth only.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 08 Nov 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:But is there any connection with the age of Brahma before Shiv gets in him?

:neutral:
Sanjeev.
Anyone has answer? BKs, PBKs or any other splinter group or individual. It is easy to question but very difficult to answer. IMO Murlis are still not interpretted correctly. And if any mistakes are there in Murlis they are not yet pointed out. And human by nature tries to avoid embarrasment or lies to cover up his/her mistakes. Just that and there is no conspiracy behind this.

I think this is the reason for lies and re-writes (if any) about Lekharaj Kirpalani's genuine age.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Nov 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:And if any mistakes are there in Murlis they are not yet pointed out. And human by nature tries to avoid embarrasment or lies to cover up his/her mistakes. Just that and there is no conspiracy behind this.
I must say that I have to disagree with this. And I think it is fair to expect higher standards from a so-called Godly University.

Of course, it underlines the level of consciousness and amateurishness of the Brahma Kumaris and, yes, their tendency to lie and cover up, but I think there is more. An obvious inconsistency that runs throughout their teachings even now, after all the re-writes.

It just cannot be "god" behind all that.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 09 Nov 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:It just cannot be "god" behind all that.
Of course it cannot. It's one thing to understand human nature, but the BK leadership are guilty of a blatant and systematic re-writing of history, and the words of their own God Father. They don't even follow what He has taught them through the Murli. This doesn't reveal much faith or love for Him, does it.

Sach_Khand
Posts: 571
Joined: 02 May 2010
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Seeking Truth and Truth only.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 17 Nov 2011

fluffy bunny wrote:I must say that I have to disagree with this. And I think it is fair to expect higher standards from a so-called Godly University.

Of course, it underlines the level of consciousness and amateurishness of the Brahma Kumaris and, yes, their tendency to lie and cover up, but I think there is more. An obvious inconsistency that runs throughout their teachings even now, after all the re-writes.

It just cannot be "god" behind all that.
I have not written that God has lied. It is the followers, human beings of Kaliyug, that have lied. Lied for what? IMO to avoid embarrasment. And did not have any conspiracy behind it. This is my opinion for now.
GodFather does not write and rewrite. It is His children that write and rewrite based on their level of understanding. IMO True knowledge has to be very simple and does not need many words to express. But due to the dullheadedness of the children it takes so many years to make them understand and then accept The Truth. How many will really understand will still be questionable. When there is no Teacher in practical then there will surely be obvious inconsistency in what the children say. GodFather is not responsible for that.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

Sach_Khand
Posts: 571
Joined: 02 May 2010
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: Seeking Truth and Truth only.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Sach_Khand » 17 Nov 2011

Roy wrote: Of course it cannot. It's one thing to understand human nature, but the BK leadership are guilty of a blatant and systematic re-writing of history, and the words of their own God Father. They don't even follow what He has taught them through the Murli. This doesn't reveal much faith or love for Him, does it.
So, what do you think you shall do to correct them? If you can then please correct them. GodFather too will surely be happy for your service towards your brothers and sisters.
IMO, to do such service we need lots and lots of unconditional love in our heart towards them. Our ego will not help to do service but instead will lead to disservice.

:neutral:
Sanjeev.

User avatar
Roy
Posts: 1318
Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Affinity to the BKWSU: questioning BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I have been associated with Raj Yoga since 1985, and have only quite recently come to learn of the PBKs and this forum, which i find a great place to get deeper insights into all things Gyani, and hear input from many sides. I find this most healthy, stimulating, and informative, and hope this continues for some time to come.
Location: UK

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Roy » 17 Nov 2011

Sach_Khand wrote:So, what do you think you shall do to correct them? If you can then please correct them. GodFather too will surely be happy for your service towards your brothers and sisters. IMO, to do such service we need lots and lots of unconditional love in our heart towards them. Our ego will not help to do service but instead will lead to disservice.

If God Himself cannot correct these souls with love, then it is surely beyond my capabilities Bhai... even my ego is not that big! However, it is accurate as you imply, to maintain a loving attitude towards these souls and not one of judgementalness. I am the last soul who should get involved in this, as i have been warned often enough about my failing in this department by various sources, acting to try and free me of this very impure habit.

Fluffy Bhai and myself see the same wrongful behaviour, but where as i know this will be punished both in the here and now, and finally in Dharamraj, and therefore may see the drama from a more detached perspective... he doesn't experience this luxury of faith, and so our overall attitudes to the situation are likely to be quite different. I have no hatred for these souls, but i do have distaste for their actions and the powerful affects they have on others. But i also see the drama playing out accurately. This may seem callous to another, but we all receive sorrow in the parts we play in the drama, and these are all individual. I have both given and received sorrow in the past, and have suffered with well over 20 years of illness as a result of this; so i am well aware of karma as a reality in our lives.

So what i am saying is, that we have to look beyond the outward appearance of things as Gyani souls. The BK leadership are performing wrongful actions, but i understand why this has occured in terms of the drama; and although i really feel for souls who have suffered as a result of their time in the BKWSU, and am often touched and delighted when reading their experiences on forums such as these; i am still aware of the Law of Karma that governs all of our lives, whether we believe in it or not!

Roy

Shiv1976
Posts: 49
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To discuss ShivBaba's knowledge.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Shiv1976 » 04 Sep 2013

AUM SHANTI.

Another contradiction in a book written by BKs.

When I was going through a book which says about the history of BKs(From Om Mandli to Brahma Kumaris - The birth of Knowledge(as at Oct 2011)), one point which I thought of sharing in this forum is the age of Dada Lekraj.This book has got date wise and year wise explanation of all the events happened in the Yagya.

One point here is, in the end of the page 1, it says "January 1934 Dada’s uncle died. This was a decisive moment for him, and he began to turn his mind more deeply to spiritual matters. Dada Lekhraj entered Vanprasth, the age of retirement. This is also sometimes called sathiyana, meaning ‘sixtyishness’. Dada Lekraj was born between 1884 and 1890."

Here it says Dada Lekraj was born between 1884 and 1890. But in the last page it says, "1965 The name ‘BapDada’ starts being used, clearly indicating collective acceptance of two entities at work, with Shiv Baba as Supreme. They perceive destruction as occurring in 1976, which is noted in some of the earlier posters. This also fit in with the 100 years of Brahma from the scriptures"

Now how does this fit with 100 years of Brahma as shown in the scriptures? As on 1976, He will be just 92 if we consider 1884 and 86 if we consider 1890.

Shiv1976.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by mbbhat » 08 Sep 2013

So- just error and doubts instead of accuracy and faith. it is very difficult to judge.

In the picture given here- http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2180&start=225

it seems age of LRaj soul (in that birth) is 60 plus (during between1937 and 1947), which fits Lekhraj Kirpalani as Chariot of ShivBaba according to Murli points.

But, there another document of 1939 year says he was 44 during 1939! There again it says- DLRaj was handsome! (see the picture- does it seem to be handsome?)

And- some documents say he was 52 at 1936, some says nearly 60.
---------
Both BKWSU and AIVV feel that they are handicapped and are in total darkness.

This matter (DOB) is perhaps really night of Brahma for all the BKs and PBKs. = No one has right idea of Brahma (or Sevakram).

So- this is really Real drama.

sita
Posts: 1300
Joined: 18 May 2011
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I would like to take part in healthy discussion on topics of knowledge, sharing with fellow souls, for common benefit.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by sita » 08 Sep 2013

I have seen his birth certificate that says 1884.

mbbhat
BK
Posts: 3242
Joined: 19 Jun 2008
Affinity to the BKWSU: BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: I am a Bk and a writer. I have been benefited a lot by the knowledge given in BK institution. I also have materials written totally on logic without BK knowledge. Anyone can get them as attachments for free by email.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by mbbhat » 08 Sep 2013

sita wrote:I have seen his birth certificate that says 1884.
That is OK. But, then why does the news paper cutting says different? (says 44 in 1939)?

What would be the age of Lraj from the picture in the karachi - (you may guess and say)? If we assume that picture is during 1947 (need not be, it can be of any time between 1939 to 1947), even then BBaba looks old, nearly 65 years (as per my perception). So- he should be at least 55 during 1936.

Whom all we can satisfy when we have all these several things? It has become like - too many cooks spoil the food.
--------
No Murli point gives consistent answer here. I have already posted around 3 to 5 of them. They say- I enter at 60 years, they also say- when Bbaba left lowkik Gita, I entered. They also say- when I entered, BBaba sacrificed all his wealth.

What was the year when BBaba did all these? Mostly 1936/37 itself, definitely not 1947. So-actually Murli points fit to DL himself, no Murli point fits to PBK theory here. But neither BKs can prove themselves- since DOB document says as 1884 and even in their own documents/magazines, it is written as 50 somewhere, late 50s somewhere.

What I think is- ShivBaba would have entered in BBaba during 1936 itself, but not in a regular way, hence that is not said as official one.

Like when a new road is constructed, people will use it. The inauguration date would be later. Even though people had used the road before, the date of inauguration would be declared as the official one.

So- sometimes baba may be referring to the previous one, sometimes later.

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Sep 2013

You cannot trust recent Murlis produced by the Brahma Kumaris, let alone their comic magazines! They are almost worthless now.

They have been altered so many times by indoctrinated individuals who are neither free to think, study and follow the truth ... nor even know it when they see it. All the BKs spread is confusion within their own religion ... and their own Krishna Bhakti projected on Lekhraj Kirpalani ... not spiritual clarity.

mbbhat, at your level you should be asking questions sincerely and humbly, not making statements. You have not done sufficient study yet to be qualified to speak. You're just confused. You've been made into mess by them by following their ness.

Think and answer your own question. Which newspaper, what reputation of newspaper, how was the paper produced ... e.g. it's not a big mistake to typeset 44 instead of 55. It's only one letter apart. Ask your self, where did the birth certificate come from and why did the BKWSU not produce it ... beforehand because surely someone knew.

Why did they cover up and hide ... who are they covering up and hiding?

The birth certificated is supported by other evidence, and that the leaders of the Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University lie, confuse, cover up, hide and manipulate ... is also supported by other evidence.

Lekhraj Kirpalani was 52 in 1936 and there was no mention of Shiva until at least after 1955.

And even in around 1955, they still thought the bodiless, incorporeal god was an aspect of Lekhraj Kirpalani and not separate being.

Therefore, 98% of what you have been told and believe about the history is absolutely false. You don't even realise how much of it is false yet.

Yes, perhaps the spirit did start influencing Lekhraj Kirpalani around 1947 ... but he and they clearly did not have any knowledge of it at that time.

People here and at the ex-BK website are way ahead of the BKs in these matters, but they still do not have a complete picture of what happened yet.

Shiv1976
Posts: 49
Joined: 27 Jul 2013
Affinity to the BKWSU: PBK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: To discuss ShivBaba's knowledge.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by Shiv1976 » 09 Sep 2013

AUM SHANTI.

Dear Brothers and Sisters,
Therefore, 98% of what you have been told and believe about the history is absolutely false. You don't even realise how much of it is false yet.
True. Only source could be the old Murlis which are yet to come out.
Yes, perhaps the spirit did start influencing Lekhraj Kirpalani around 1947 ... but he and they clearly did not have any knowledge of it at that time.
In the same book it is written in last page,"1957-60 Clear distinction of and relationship between Shiv Baba and Brahma Baba: ‘Bap’ and‘Dada’. They understand that Shiv Baba, God, speaks through Brahma Baba, the first prince of Golden
Age and the Father of the people, and that God is not omnipresent. Confluence Age is understood."


I don't think it is a book. It has got only 4 pages. It is just a compilation of events happened during the Yagya in the initial days.

In the same page,"1952 A lot is clarified. The differences between Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Shankar, Krishna all become clear. Understanding is still developing through trance and experiences in meditation. By now it
is clearly understood that Shiv Baba and Brahma Baba are two distinct entities. Reportedly though, many
still aren’t that concerned about it. Baba is Baba, whether there are two or one.
"

User avatar
fluffy bunny
ex-BKWSU
Posts: 5365
Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Affinity to the BKWSU: ex-BK
Please give a short description of your interest in joining this forum.: ex-BK. Interested in historical revisionism, failed predictions and abuse within the BK movement.

Re: Lekhraj Kirpalani genuine age; why lies and re-writes?

Post by fluffy bunny » 09 Sep 2013

Shiv1976 wrote:I don't think it is a book. It has got only 4 pages. It is just a compilation of events happened during the Yagya in the initial days.
These are Tamasin Ramsay's notes?

Yes, she's responded on behalf of the BKWSU to revelations that are being made at BrahmaKumaris.info and by people here. She's directly stolen from us without crediting us but, mostly, the intention of people like her, Neville Hodgkinson and others is ameliorate/weaken the damage the revelations and causing and by appearing to be the originators of the new history, take attention away from sites like this and the BrahmaKumaris.info.
In the same page,"1952 A lot is clarified. The differences between Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva, Shankar, Krishna all become clear. Understanding is still developing through trance and experiences in meditation. By now it is clearly understood that Shiv Baba and Brahma Baba are two distinct entities. Reportedly though, many still aren’t that concerned about it. Baba is Baba, whether there are two or one."
Strictly speaking that is not correct. They may have become aware of an incorporeal being ... but they still think it is part of Lekhraj Kirpalani.

By, "Baba is Baba", I think you agree with me that what she/they mean is that the majority of women in his circle were just infatuated with their Krishna Kripalani ... and that many remained for a long time, or even remain so until this day. Janki Kirpalani being the most obvious case. She's turned much of the religion towards her Krishna worship. And having turned the religion into Bhakti, she and other continue to add others and themselves as deities for bhagats to worship.

Even Karuna Shetty is being passed off as a Shri Shri !!!

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests