Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 19 Nov 2011

Shivsena Bhai has posted another really interesting point....

Avaykt Vani 16-7-69 says: "Ab Gyan surya vyakt kinara chod avaykt vatan mein khade hain". ["Now the Sun of Knowledge has left the corporeal world and is standing in the subtle avaykt world."] viewtopic.php?f=37&t=315&p=39743#p39743

We know from the Murli point posted recently by Rudra Bhai, that Father Shiv plays the mother role through Brahma Baba, the Moon of Knowledge...

When the Iron Age ends, then Bhakti would also end; only then will God come and meet because He alone gives the fruits of Bhakti. He is called the Sun of Knowledge. The Moon of knowledge, the Sun of Knowledge and the lucky stars of knowledge. OK, the Father is the Sun of Knowledge. Then the mother should be the Moon of knowledge. So, the body in which He has entered is the Moon of knowledge mother and the rest of the children are lucky stars. In this way, Jagdamba is also a lucky star because she is also a child, isn’t she? Even among the stars one shines the most. Similarly, even here they are numberwise. Those are the Sun, the Moon and the stars of the sky and here it is a matter of knowledge. Just as they are the rivers of water and these are the rivers of knowledge, which have emerged from the ocean of knowledge.” [Mu 11.01.08]

So Father Shiv, who is the Ocean of Knowledge, plays the role of the Moon of Knowledge mother, through Brahma Baba, as is quite clearly stated in the revised Murli point from 2008 above. So the question is; who does the Unlimited Ocean of Knowledge, play the role of Sun of Knowledge Father through?

In the Avyakt Murli point above from 1969, Father Shiv is clearly telling us that the soul who plays the role of the Sun of Knowledge, has left the corporeal world intellectually in 1969, and is know standing in the Avyakt world; meaning he is thinking and churning on the points of knowledge contained in the Murlis... a process that went on for about 6 or 7 years.

The opening line of the point above says...

"When the Iron Age ends, then Bhakti would also end; only then will God come and meet because He alone gives the fruits of Bhakti." [Mu 11.01.08]

which can be combined with this point from 1974...

"Two years remain out of 9 years... now(in 1974) it is the end of the Iron Age." [Av 4.02.74]

So from these two points we are can conclude or infer, that the Iron Age world, and Bhakti, ended for the Sun of Knowledge, in 1976, which is the year he finally attained the complete faith, that he was to be the Chariot of Father Shiv, through whom the role of the Sun of Knowledge Father, was to be played. It is through coming into contact with the Sun of Knowledge, that ones Bhakti finally comes to end, as all the secrets of the Murlis begin to be revealed by Father Shiv, and accurate churning begins to take place. The light of the sun has been shining from 1976, in Purushottam Sangamyug, through the corporeal Father Prajapita/Ram/Shankar... but for some this sunlight is eclipsed, by their devotion(Bhakti) to the moon of knowledge mother, Brahma Baba.

Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 20 Nov 2011

Roy wrote:Father Shiv, who is the Ocean of Knowledge, plays the role of the Moon of Knowledge mother, through Brahma Baba, as is quite clearly stated in the revised Murli point from 2008 above. So the question is; who does the Unlimited Ocean of Knowledge, play the role of Sun of Knowledge Father through?
I feel that this Murli point below further illustrates the point that both the moon of knowledge mother, and the Sun of Knowledge Father, are parts that have to be played out in corporeal form...

"He(Shiva) is called – You are my mother and Father. So He is incorporeal isn’t He? So, mother(Brahma Baba) and Father(Prajapita/Ram) are required in corporeal form; only then do they ask – Is there a mother of Mama(Om Radhe)? It will be said – Yes; Brahma(Gita Mata/Jagadamba) is Mama’s(Om Radhe's) mother as well. Brahma(Gita Mata/Jagadmba) does not have any mother. Since this mother(Brahma Baba) is not a female, Saraswati(Om Radhe) is called Mama." [Mu 26.10.07]

Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 21 Feb 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

In the latest avaykt Vani of 19-2-12 (on shivjayanti day) avaykt BapDada spoke:

"आज का ही यह विचित्र जयंती का दिन है जो बाप और बच्चे का इक्कटा दिव्य जन्म का दिन है ."
"Aaj ka hi yeh vichitra jayanti ka din hai jo Bap aur bacche ka ikkhataa divya janam ka din hai."

{meaning: "Today is the unusual day of celebration where the Father and sons together have their divine birthday." ]

Which is this date when in Sangamyug the Father and sons are born together and their birth-date is celebrated....surely the date 19-2-12 does not represent the date when Father and children are born together.....so is this date in past Sangamyug in 1937(when shiv came according to BKs) or in 1976(when ShivBaba was revealed according to PBKs)....or is this date going to be revealed in future when no. 1 shivshakti(mat-pita combined) are going to be revealed with 108 shivshaktis together.

Can you please share your views.
shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 21 Feb 2012

shivsena wrote:Which is this date when in Sangamyug the Father and sons are born together and their birth-date is celebrated....surely the date 19-2-12 does not represent the date when Father and children are born together.....so is this date in past Sangamyug in 1937(when shiv came according to BKs) or in 1976(when ShivBaba was revealed according to PBKs)....or is this date going to be revealed in future when no. 1 shivshakti(mat-pita combined) are going to be revealed with 108 shivshaktis together.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

ShivBaba has told us to call it Trimurti Shivjayanti, because He is born(revealed) along with with his three murtis(sons), Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar...

“You must prove – Ocean of Knowledge, purifier of the sinful, bestower of true salvation upon everyone, is Trimurti Supreme Father Supreme Soul Shiv. The birth of Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar is together (initially in a subtle incognito form, at the beginning of the Confluence Age in 1936/7). It is not just Shivjayanti (birthday of Shiv) but Trimurti Shivjayanti (birthday of Trinity Shiv)." [Mu 03.10.05]

"When the Father (Shiv) comes (in the very beginning of the Confluence Age, in 1936/7), Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar are also required without fail (they have to be created in a practical, but incognito form). It is also said, "Trinity God Shiva speaks". Now He cannot speak through all three of them (at the same time, as that would prove omnipresence). These matters should be imbibed properly." [Mu 22.02.75]

“Actually, along with Shiva the Trinity should also be present. You celebrate Trimurti Shivjayanti. Nothing will be proved if you celebrate just Shivjayanti.” [Mu 05.02.85]


It is my belief that the initial incognito birth(revelation) of the trinity is in 1936/7, and that the same three souls are revealed to the whole world, along with ShivBaba, at the end... this may also extend to the 108 as you have suggested.

“Everything, whatever happened in the beginning (of the Confluence Age), has to happen in the end.” [Mu 18.10.72]

Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 02 Mar 2012

Roy wrote:
ShivBaba has told us to call it Trimurti Shivjayanti, because He is born(revealed) along with with his three murtis(sons), Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar...Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Do you mean to say that Father Shiva will be revealed through 3 different physical bodies !!!
Murlis clearly say that Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar are subtle Deities(sukhma-vatanwasi)....while AK teaches that Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar are 3 different physical bodies.

Also in Bhakti-marg, Shiva is combined brahma-Vishnu-Shankar(G-O-D)...so whether Brahma-Vishnu-Shankar are 3 different subtle personalities of Supreme Soul(according to the acts performed) or Shiva is recognised as G-O-D by 3 different souls in 3 physical bodies is to be determined first.

shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 03 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:Do you mean to say that Father Shiva will be revealed through 3 different physical bodies !!!
No, because at the end when He is revealed or born to the world, omnipresence would be indicated by this! Father Shiv will be revealed through Shankar, but Shankar is also no 1 Brahma and no 1 Vishnu soul. However... Brahma Jagadamba, and Sita(Vishnu) will also be revealed practically along with him at this time.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 04 Mar 2012

Roy wrote: Father Shiv will be revealed through Shankar, but Shankar is also no 1 Brahma and no 1 Vishnu soul..
Dear roy Bhai.

Murlis always say : "Brahma so Vishnu and Vishnu so brahma"...Murlis never say that ''Shankar so brahma'' or ''Shankar so Vishnu."

shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 04 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote: Murlis always say : "Brahma so Vishnu and Vishnu so brahma"...Murlis never say that ''Shankar so brahma'' or ''Shankar so Vishnu."
This is true Shivsena Bhai... but is not Prajapita Brahma through whom the part of Shankar is played by ShivBaba, also a Brahma!

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 04 Mar 2012

Roy wrote:This is true Shivsena Bhai... but is not Prajapita Brahma through whom the part of Shankar is played by ShivBaba, also a Brahma!
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Murli says: ''Shankar ko prajapita nahin kahenge"...so all i know is that Shankar and prajapita cannot be the same soul....if they had been the same, then the above point should not have been spoken by shiv in Murlis.

shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 05 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:Murli says: ''Shankar ko prajapita nahin kahenge"...so all i know is that Shankar and prajapita cannot be the same soul....if they had been the same, then the above point should not have been spoken by shiv in Murlis.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

I am not exactly sure what your point says, but although the roles of Shankar(destruction) and Prajapita Brahma(creator Father) are different, the Chariot(Ram) through whom these roles are played is the same. Hence why both Prajapita and Shankar are said to be next to Shiv.

"Incorporeal God Father(Shiv) cannot do any work without corporeal Father(Prajapita Brahma), He cannot play any role." [Mu 06.02.76]

"Shankar is meant for destruction. So, he is next to Shiv (no 1 child)." [Mu 21.02.71]

"Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is very great, is not it? He is called next to God(Shiv)." [Mu 20.11.76]


Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 14 Mar 2012

Dear roy Bhai.

In Vanis it is said: " BapDada are waiting for the children in the Subtle Regions".

Can you please share your views about who is this BapDada and who are the children, BapDada are waiting for.

shivsena.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 15 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:In Vanis it is said: " BapDada are waiting for the children in the Subtle Regions". Can you please share your views about who is this BapDada and who are the children, BapDada are waiting for.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

Since we know from the Murli that there is no Subtle Region up above as the BKs believe... but that we have to create the Subtle Region here on earth. So this point is telling all of us, but only PBK souls will come to understand what is being said here before the end; that we have to meet BapDada by becoming subtle ourselves, and understanding that BapDada is being revealed through a corporeal being(Prajapita).

"Do not be afraid: Backbone BapDada(Shiv+Krishna), will be revealed through some person(Shankar-Prajapita-Ram) when the time comes; and to some Brahmins(co-operative seed souls or PBKs who recognise at this, that Shiv is entering Prajapita, along with Avyakt Brahma), He is being revealed even now." [Av 16.01.75]

“The Subtle Region has to be created here (on earth, via our churning of advance knowledge).” [Mu 22.11.72]

“The Subtle Region is nothing.” [Mu 02.12.95]

“The Supreme Soul Shiva creates it (i.e. the Subtle Region, in the mind of souls) in the Confluence Age sometimes, for the purpose of visions.” [Mu 12.03.80]


Roy

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 15 Mar 2012

Roy wrote:
[color=#0000FF]"Do not be afraid: Backbone BapDada(Shiv+Krishna), will be revealed through some person(Shankar-Prajapita-Ram) when the time comes; [Av 16.01.75]
Roy
Are you trying to say that BapDada means Shiv+Krishna.(just as BKs believe)

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by Roy » 15 Mar 2012

shivsena wrote:Are you trying to say that BapDada means Shiv+Krishna.(just as BKs believe)
Sometimes!.. and at others it means Shiv+Prajapita. I believe it can also mean Prajapita+Krishna.

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Re: Meaning of Avaykt Bap-Dada.

Post by shivsena » 15 Mar 2012

Roy wrote:
Sometimes!.. and at others it means Shiv+Prajapita. I believe it can also mean Prajapita+Krishna.
According to AK, Shiv+prajapita is ShivBaba(not BapDada)...and prajapitaRam+ Krishna is BapDada....so other other half of the question still remains: who are the children for whom the avaykt BapDada(Ram+Krishna) are waiting in sukhmavatan.

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