Are BKs equal to Islam?

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arjun
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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by arjun » 11 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:Have any such been acknowledged in AIVV so far? after acknowledgement, have they been put in PBK literature?
Such mistakes are pointed out by ShivBaba Himself while clarifying the original Murlis.
and i have pointed here 3 genuine cases. Do you think they are genuine?
I cannot comment unless I see the scanned copies of the original and the revised Murlis that you talk about.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by arjun » 11 Aug 2012

rmn wrote:Why Arjun and mb bhaat souls are commenting badly on each other. Mb bhaat pl control on u r writings. Monkeys/blindly is not correct on this forum.
rmn,
mbbhat is not new to this forum. He comes for a few months, keeps on writing day and night and vanishes one fine morning to reappear after many months or years to put the same questions to PBKs that were answered months or years ago. And he deliberately comments on each and every line or sentence written by the PBKs whether it is relevant or not. If we don't respond to such irrelevant comments he proudly declares on the forum that PBKs don't have answers and if we respond he reacts and writes angrily and egotistically on every line. You might have seen the recent comment where he called us monkeys and blind. And above that he justifies his comments.
So, when he does not feel shy to spread untruth, why should we hesitate to write the truth? And truth is always bitter (especially for mbbhat Bhai).
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by arjun » 11 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:I said monkeys do not know the value of jewel. similarly, ex BKs and PBKs do not understand the vale of Murli.
[Because ex BKs do not believe in Murli and PBKs mis interpret Murli]
But does BKWSU or BKs realize the value of Murlis? They have blatantly manipulated, edited and cut the Murlis to half their original size. And you say BKs value Murlis more than the ex-BKs or PBKs. Ex-BKs and PBKs are at least trying to compile and provide to everyone the original unedited Murlis. And you are just demoralizing and defaming them. You want to just spread the darkness of ignorance (andhera kaayam rahey - May darkness prevail).
OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:Sorry- no reply to personal comments.
Please don't insult me. That is not a "personal" comment mbbhat, it was merely an honest question to assess whether you had understood what had been said.

You keep trying to assert that any inconvenient question is a "personal comment". Surely what you really mean in this case, is that you will refuse to admit when you are wrong, or when something from the PBKs is logical or reasonable?

You started your argument with a false premise that the AIVV says "BKs are equal to Islam". They don't. Do you understand what they do teach now, i.e. that the roots of all religious branches exist within the Brahma family, and do you agree with it or not?


In normal polite conversation, one can ask simple, reasonable question of the other person and expect a reasonable, polite reply. Not to do so is impolite and disrespectful.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 11 Aug 2012

But does BKWSU or BKs realize the value of Murlis?
I have never said so. We know that just 108 souls or 16108 souls are worthy. And from the history, many BKs have left BKWSU.

By pointing mistakes in BKWSU, does it prove that PBKs are correct?
And you say BKs value Murlis more than the ex-BKs or PBKs.

Definitely. Because they do not mis interpret what is said in Murlis. They do service. even the typing errors will not affect them. And PBKs use the Murlis come out from DL against DL. It is surprising that for what use PBKs are using Murlis. But i do not wish to discuss on that. I am just holding bat or sometimes hitting the ball delivered by PBKs (to accusations of PBKs on BKs). That is all.
Ex-BKs and PBKs are at least trying to compile and provide to everyone the original unedited Murlis.

for what purpose? Just to criticize BKWSU.
There is a saying- truth spoken with wrong intention is worse than the highest lie. this applies here fully.

We can see here- ex BKs supporting PBKs and vice versa. One is non believer in Murli.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 11 Aug 2012

is that you will refuse to admit when you are wrong, or when something from the PBKs is logical or reasonable?
Reasonable? Can you list how many from PBKs were reasonable and unreasonable?
If possible even here- prove that i was wrong. [Read the following.]
You started your argument with a false premise that the AIVV says "BKs are equal to Islam". They don't. Do you understand what they do teach now, i.e. that the roots of all religious branches exist within the Brahma family, and do you agree with it or not?
Read the title posted by the topic poster. - "Are BKs equal to Islam?" Have you read the translation given by the topic poster? Does not that mean that the topic poster is equating one to the other?

If PBKs believe all roots are same, etc, etc- then what is the need of this topic? Or if you believe the topic title is incorrect- then any pbk should have taken the responsibility to state it before accusing me, is it not?

Is it not surprising that- you are not understanding this simple matter?

Something more:- PBKs compare brahma Baba to Islam many times while they give knowledge.

they say to BKs- there is just one temple of brahma (DL). That too in Ajmer.

but they fail to explain the following-

1)Where is temple of Prajapita elsewhere?
2)in Murli- it is said- temple at ajmer is of Prajapita, [sometime brahma also].


i have no problem even if PBKs compare BKWSU to anything and everything, because all are common to the same tree. But what is the intention of PBKs when they write such topics?- just to criticize. Let them do, i have no problem. But, when i reply in the same tone- they cannot tolerate, and even you sometimes.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by Rudraakash » 12 Aug 2012

but they fail to explain the following-

1)Where is temple of Prajapita elsewhere?
2)in Murli- it is said- temple at ajmer is of Prajapita, [sometime Brahma also].
DL is title based prajapita brahma not real prajapita, thats why its told in mu,
Vastam me yah brahma saraswti Mama baba nhe hai- Brahma Sarswati is not real Mama baba.
And base of worship is depend upon the purity and completeness so there are too much temples of Shiva and Shankar in all over India, THAT is the complete form and its brahma or DL.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:Have you read the translation given by the topic poster? Does not that mean that the topic poster is equating one to the other?
We moved on beyond that point and it was explained that the poster was not "official" but was made by some individual PBK. Then you were given some insights into what the actual beliefs are.

I was asking what you thought of the actual beliefs and whether they seemed reasonable.
mbbhat wrote:for what purpose? Just to criticize BKWSU.
We been over this one before as well ... you are ignoring what you don't like.

The Murlis are for to those BKs who want them but are refused them by the BKWSU leaders' secretive policy. Policy which is contrary to the Shrimat contained within the Murlis.

I've also found there are also those who have stopped going to the BKWSU, for what ever reason, but who retain a fondness for the Murlis, so they are for them too. Even from a BK point of view, that is good service.


I think there is little to nothing to be gained from Murlis from a critics point of view. However, I do think the editing or re-writing of the Murlis should be criticised ... and should not happen. Serious students, and the tiny amount of academics etc who might be interested, should allow access to the most original, unedited copy. To hide those are criminal.

Why would the BKWSU leadership want to hide the word of God?

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 12 Aug 2012

DL is title based prajapita Brahma not real prajapita,
this is just pbk assumption without any support from Murli.
Can BKs give any Bhaktimarg yaadgaar that god entered in two chariots and read Murlis spoken from the title based Chariot in another Chariot and explained them by giving clarifications?

where in lowkik it is believed Brahma is different than Prajapita?
thats why its told in mu,Vastam me yah Brahma saraswti Mama Baba nhe hai- Brahma Sarswati is not real Mama Baba.
Have you heard of Murli point- Adam = Eve?
then it can be discussed.
And base of worship is depend upon the purity and completeness so there are too much temples of Shiva and Shankar in all over India,
If worship is dependent on purity, why there are teples of Jagadamba, but not Jagatpita?

why there are temples of Krishna popular, but not of Radha?

why Kali is worshipped with animal sacrifice? Is it symbol of purity? Or any other interpretation?

and why no Shankar is seen in 12 jyotirlingams?

why temples of Shankar is famous and not of Parvati?

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by arjun » 12 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:By pointing mistakes in BKWSU, does it prove that PBKs are correct?
It does not prove that every PBK is doing purusharth correctly, but it proves that ShivBaba is not sustaining the BK Yagya directly. It is being ruled by Gurus according to their whims and fancies and not as per Shrimat.
Definitely. Because they do not mis interpret what is said in Murlis. They do service. even the typing errors will not affect them. And PBKs use the Murlis come out from DL against DL. It is surprising that for what use PBKs are using Murlis. But i do not wish to discuss on that. I am just holding bat or sometimes hitting the ball delivered by PBKs (to accusations of PBKs on BKs). That is all.
This is your misunderstanding. It is the BKWSU which is misinterpreting the Murlis more than the ex-BKs or PBKs. This is why the BK Yagya is undergoing rapid degradation from 1969.
Murlis say BKs should not give drishti. BKs give and take.
Murlis say do not construct building other than Mount Abu. BKs have been acquiring huge properties all over the world and fitting them will all kinds of luxuries against Shrimat.
Murlis say do not tie rakhis. BKs do.
Murlis say do not offer Bhog or go to trance. BKs do.
Murlis say do not display pictures of Brahma, Mama, or BKs. But BKs do so at the cost of hiding Trimurti ShivBaba.
Murlis say many more things which BKs do against Shrimat. And you say that BKs don't misinterpret.
You are free to live with such misunderstandings and false pride that only BKs are entitled to Murlis.
for what purpose? Just to criticize BKWSU.
There is a saying- truth spoken with wrong intention is worse than the highest lie. this applies here fully.
No, we don't just criticize BKWSU. We are basically bringing out the hints given in the Murlis and AVs about the new practical part of ShivBaba going on through Shankar (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit according to PBKs.).
It is the BKs whose intention is wrong. This is why they have been making enormous changes in Murlis to prevent the progress of PBKs. If they have truth on their side, they will not cut or change the words of God. As we all know that they are manipulating Murlis since 1969 it proves that they are not true.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 12 Aug 2012

Dear FB soul,
thank you

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 12 Aug 2012

it proves that they are not true.
does that prove PBKs are true? Or if you wish me to agree, i will agree so.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Aug 2012

But you clearly don't, so why say that?
mbbhat wrote:thank you
Please don't thank me as a way to ignore the question asked.

Consider your dharna.

If the Murlis are the word of God, then it is absolutely wrong to edit or re-write them. It gives a false impression of their author. This, and the withholding of them, proves the current BK leadership and those that support them cannot be trusted.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 12 Aug 2012

If the Murlis are the word of God, then it is absolutely wrong to edit or re-write them.
The cuttings were happening even while brahma Baba was present. ShivBaba never took any action. Then do you say BKs should take action on BK leadership?
During those days- it may be due to carelessness. nowadays may be with good intention or may be due to AIVV mis interpretations.

Then even when something is done with good intention or reasoning, how can i complain?

whatever it is- teachings in Murli is not against the basic seven days course teachings which developed faith in individual so- i do not think others than BKs have any right to demand.
proves the current BK leadership and those that support them cannot be trusted.
No need to trust any Bk. Trust only in the incorporeal whom you developed faith in seven days course without seeing any Murli.

And even if a Bk demands any action-

SM 3-9-82(2):- Baap ko bhool jaate hain toh gyaan ko bhi bhool jaate hain. Baap ko faarkati dee toh khalaas. Baap kaa ban agar vikaar may gaye toh gala ghut jaayegaa. Kuch bhi bol nahin sakenge. JO BAHUT ACHCHAA2 PRACHAAR KARTE THAY, VAH AAJ HAI NAHIN. KOYI BRAHMAKUMAARI SE MATH BHED HUVAA, BAS BAAP PAR GUSSEY HO JAATE KI BABA INKO SAMJHAATE NAHIN, YAH NAHIN KARTEY. AAKHRIN PADHAAYI HI CHOD DETE HAIN. ISLIYE BAAP KAHTE HAIN MAHAAMOORKH DEKHNAA HO TOH YAHAAN DEKHO. Likh_kar bhi dete hain ki Baba main aapkaa hun. Aapsey hum sadaa sukh vaa varsaa avinaashi lenge. Phir bhi faarkati de dete, divorce de dete hain. ACHCHI2 BACHCHIYAAN THI, AAJ VAH HAI NAHIN. TOH WONDER HAI NA. Maya AISEY DASTHI/DUSTHI HAI JO BADE2 MAHAARATHI JINKO HANUMAN KAHTE THAY, PARANTU VAH BHI HAI NAHIN. AJIGAR KE PET MAY CHALEY GAYE. Mukh se kuch kah na sakey. Yah avinaashi gyaan sunaa na sakey. BAAPDAADAA KI RAAY PAR TEEKAA TIPPANI KARNE LAG PADTEY HAIN. Bahut samjhaayaa jaataa hai kuch sudhar jaavo. Ismay hi kalyaan hai. Parantu sudharte hi nahin. BAHUT ACHCHE2 BACHCHE CHALEY GAYE. ABHI BHI BAHUT AISEY BACHCHE HAIN JO KINAAREY PAR KHADEY HAIN. Blood se bhi pratigyaa likh_kar chod dete hain. -4- [warning, PBKs, prediction, bhaaganti]

= good children who were doing good publishing (service0 are not there today. They had some conflict with Bk sister incharge, they become angry over Father that Father does not teach/explain to them, does not do this; then at last, they leave study. Hence Baba says- to see highest fools, see here. .... They even criticize on directions of Baapdada. They are very well explained- change yourself. There is only benefit in this (changing self). Many good children left. Even now, many are on the border. Even after giving promise in blood, children leave.
---------
now- should these be believed as words of god (on behalf of any BK who demands Murli)?

If yes, should we take law into hands?
Consider your dharna.
the highest dharna for any Bk is to be satisfied .

Baap milaa sab kuch milaa = I got Father, got everything.
-------
In olden days- Murli was lengthy. Later, the repeating points- they have been eliminating and the size is reducing.
There is one plus point. some get bored to sit in class for lengthy time. As days have passed, life is becoming more and more mechanic. no one has time to sit for lengthy Murli class. That may be one reason.

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Re: Are BKs equal to Islam?

Post by mbbhat » 12 Aug 2012

arjun wrote:I cannot comment unless I see the scanned copies of the original and the revised Murlis that you talk about.
The actual Murli point is this- SM 8-3-81(3):- ShivBaba ko saajan bhi kahte hain. Tum sajaniyaan is samay chee2 tamopradhaan ho. Main tumhen gul2 banaaye le jaavoongaa. Atmavon ko pavan banaakar le jaavenge. Unko liberator, guide kaha gaya hai na. Behad ka baap le jaataa hai. UNKA NAAM KYAA HAI? ShivBaba. Naam sharir par padtaa hai. PARANTU PARAMATMA KAA SHIV HEE NAAM HAI. BVS ka to sookshm sharir hai. ShivBaba ka koyi sharir hai nahin. Inko ShivBaba hee kahte hain. Bachche kahte hain- Hey Maat_Pitaa, hum aapkey baalak baney hain.

= ShivBaba is also called as Sajan(Bridegroom). You brides are dirty at present. I will make you pure and take back. Souls are purified and taken back. He is called as Liberator, Guide, is it not? The unlimited Father takes back to home. WHAT IS HIS NAME? ShivBaba. NAME IS KEPT/BASED ON BODY. BUT NAME OF THAT GOD IS JUST SHIV. Brahma Vishnu Shankar also have subtle body. ShivBaba does not have any body. This is called just ShivBaba. Children say- Hey Mother & Father, we have become your children.

actually- there is a fullstop after the word ShivBaba. due to the omission, the sentence has got miunderstood and PBKs have been claiming that the name ShivBaba is based on body.

and PBKs have went on claiming this many places. Eg-

"The name ShivBaba is based on the body, but the name of Supreme Soul is Shiv only." [Mu 15.03.96] by Roy soul- here-
http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t ... ody#p41425

The name ShivBaba is based on the body." [Mu 24.03.01] once again by Roy soul -- here-
http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=39&t ... ody#p40930
Attachments
SM_8-3-71.jpg
Due to emission of fullstop (typing error by BKs), PBKs have been claiming that name shiv is based on body in later versions of these. [see 18th line of the murli- SM 8-3-81(3)]

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