Request to BK Mbbhat

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arjun
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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by arjun » 13 Sep 2012

Om Shanti. I don't want to counter mbbhat Bhai's meaningless replies. The actions of PBKs speaks for themselves. We have been sharing Murlis and Avyakt Vanis with people of the world through this forum and www.brahmakumaris.info since many years and will continue to do so. ShivBaba says that incognito service is the best service. So, we don't want to praise ourselves by revealing how and what kind of service we are doing. We are not answerable to him.

Mbbhat Bhai is free to make any number of allegations or derogatory statements against the PBKs. As stated several times earlier he is free to keep all the Murlis with himself under lock and key. PBKs will provide all the Murlis one day. Let him wait and watch.

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by fluffy bunny » 13 Sep 2012

I've created a reply regarding the problem space exploration poses for the knowledge and than after that, for the sake of good relationships on this forum, I am going to leave you alone Mr Bhat.

Please remember, I once thought like a BK and remember it very well. I know how it works and how they teach you to think. However, I was never quite so elitist, nor entirely lost my sympathies towards other. Even as a BK I would have disagreed with you and the Seniors and gone by what was said in the Murlis.

But, in my day, they used to just through the old Murlis out and were glad to get rid of them. They were glad for a student to be so interested. Now, these days, they seem far more bothered about control, corporate PR and what other people think about them; and corrupting the religion around it, rather than following their faith.

There comes a point when you have to admit the limits of the knowledge and organization, and start to question it in order to stay alive spiritually. Whether at that point you decide to explore the depths of the knowledge as a PBK or become an ex-BK, I'll give you my time.

There is no point arguing at the level of a BK and picking holes in others is not a BK way either.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by mbbhat » 13 Sep 2012

I have already stated that I have personally provided scanned copies of numerous Murlis to http://www.brahamkumaris.info which have already been uploaded on that website. I don't have the original Murlis.
In that web site, all BKs/PBKs do not have permission to enter. Many are banned . Then?

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by fluffy bunny » 14 Sep 2012

I am sorry, that post does not make sense. Is something missing?

However, please don't misquote me. I said ...
There is no point arguing at the level of a BK and picking holes in others is not a BK way either.
From time to time there are perfectly good reasons to debate some topic and by doing so both parties can learn something (I used the word argue in the more formal sense of the word, "debate" might have been a better choice of word). That is why it is done in politics, science, law and elsewhere.

But discussion with a committed BK fundamentalist is pointless. BK fundamentalists have no interest in going beyond the point they have reached and seem to fail to recognize their own limitations.

What I have gained most from our discussion here is that when a BK says, "understand" what they really mean is "accept". In my opinion, there is not "understanding" within the BKWSU, there is only "acceptance" ... generally 'acceptance based on repetition'.

There is no explanation or proof, and little to no value placed upon it; To that point, our discussion has been beneficial. There is just the promotion of passive acceptance as embodied by Janki Kripalani's favorite credo, "Don't think, don't question ..." (or ridiculous pseudo-science from the likes of Jadgish Chander, and now alchemy).

My only advice to you would be, guard against being supercilious, study a little about the nature of logic, and don't be too turgid or nasty. I don't find your mannerisms to be nice at times, and it encourages me to want to address that.

I am sorry, I cannot remember what happened to you at Brahmakumaris.info, but I understand that
  • a) BrahmaKumaris.info is for supporting people leave the BKWSU, and family and friends of BKs who have been damage by it.
    b) Brahmakumarisforum.net is for BKs who want to discussion things with other BKs, and I thought
    c) BK-PBK.info was for those individuals who had an interest in the Knowledge to study and take it to a deeper level. Not an open invitation to attack captive PBKs.
What I do remember about the discussion at Brahmakumaris.info is that it was largely spoilt by the crude, rabid and persistent attacks upon the PBKs by some BKs and the Vishnu Party, and that they were artless and boring which is why the discussion had to be redirected across the various forums.

I started topics relevant discussions with you with your name, so that others bored or put off my your line of arguments could ignore them if they wanted.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by mbbhat » 14 Sep 2012

good.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Sep 2012

I've been making slow but gradual progress tidying up the Murli download section, particularly in the Hindu Murli section but am limited by my lack of language skills, see:
As yet there are no Tamil Murlis at all (or Urdu or whatever other language they come in .. Spanish anyone?).

If anyone wishes to contribute ... and they are free and unchanged for others to download and upload elsewhere ... I am working on creating a congruent dating system.

There is a problem with computers in the way that they sort numbers that in order to list them chronologically one has to list them: year, month, day, language. One cannot leave blank space as they are rendered as "%20" and one cannot use words

Therefore, for example, we have to use something like:
  • Revised Sakar Murli_2010-05-27-Hindi.pdf for "Revised Hindi of Sakar Murli 27 May 2010",
    AV_2012-04-03-Hindi.pdf for "Hindi Avyakt Vani of 3 April 2012", and at present
    AV_2011-11-30.pdf for English Avyakt Vani of 30 November 2011
Some BKs are attempting to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty an doubt) suggesting that some of the 100s of Murlis which have been donated has "mistake" in them or that they are in some way "tainted" for being hosted at brahmakumaris.info.

To date none have actually substantiated their claims or proven them ... although the versions hosted may be older version than the current hacked up ones the BKs use. Trust me, I and others do not have the time to waste it on adding petty errors and if there are any spelling or grammatical errors, then they would have come directly from the BKWSU.
It could be so much better if BK cooperated. I also wish for copies of the most original Murlis so we can compare what the BKWSU is doing to them. Plain texts or original PDFs are best formats. Images files such as JPEGs should be avoided except where there is an exceptionally good or important original file. Any suggestions welcome.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by mbbhat » 15 Sep 2012

Fine. All these best.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by fluffy bunny » 15 Sep 2012

Come on ... do service. Do the sort of service your god tells you to do.

"Can you hear your devotees calling out to you?"

Well, here you have future deities call out to you ... what will you become if you serve them?

Perhaps your ambitions are "lower" than I thought.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by mbbhat » 16 Sep 2012

Very good to know that you are doing service. so- you may become King. I am ready to become servant.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by arjun » 16 Sep 2012

fluffy-bunny wrote:Some BKs are attempting to spread FUD (fear, uncertainty an doubt) suggesting that some of the 100s of Murlis which have been donated has "mistake" in them or that they are in some way "tainted" for being hosted at brahmakumaris.info.
This is what I was telling mbbhat. Even if AIVV uploads the scanned Murlis BKWSU will spread the lies that these Murlis are fake. And if we don't upload they accuse us of not sharing. They want to win, by hook or by crook, whether heads or tails. But don't want to share Murlis. Let them do so.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by mbbhat » 16 Sep 2012

Arjun wrote:- And if we don't upload they accuse us of not sharing. They want to win, by hook or by crook, whether heads or tails. But don't want to share Murlis. Let them do so.
i have never accused for not sharing. I had said that it becomes responsibility of PBKs to check the full Murlis what AIVV has, study them in detail instead of just copying from PBK literature and pasting/posting them elsewhere.

If PBKs demand Murlis from BKWSU, then the above becomes their first responsibility, then scan and post them.

still they fail because- why do they need Murli when they have God with them? And why their God could not recognize great typing errors and is just following them as they are.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by fluffy bunny » 16 Sep 2012

mbbhat wrote:still they fail because- why do they need Murli when they have God with them? And why their God could not recognize great typing errors and is just following them as they are.
Have you supplied us with details of these great typing errors so what we can judge them? Or is this just more of the same ... unsubstantiated FUD.

Perhaps if Destruction in 1950, 1976 or the mid-1980s, and Sangums of 14, 40 and 100 years, are all significant and not just "mistakes", then these smaller mistakes have some significance too?

Personally, I'd prefer we worked from the earliest known and least tampered with versions.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by mbbhat » 17 Sep 2012

excellent.

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by arjun » 17 Sep 2012

Om Shanti. Just as AIVV has been making public all its literature, audio-visual materials (Murlis and discussions) on their official website, it is the responsibility of BKWSU to provide the original Murlis on their website. If they don't, it just shows their dishonesty. We are never going to beg or demand Murlis from them.

As regards typing mistakes, I have already stated that whenever ShivBaba clarifies the original or early revised Murlis published by BKWSU, He takes notice of the typing mistakes and corrects them orally while giving clarification. But mbbhat does not speak a word about the huge cutting and editing of Murlis that BKWSU has been undertaking ever since it has been under the control of human gurus and ever since AIVV has started growing.

OGS,
Arjun

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Re: Request to BK Mbbhat

Post by mbbhat » 17 Sep 2012

arjun wrote:Om Shanti. Just as AIVV has been making public all its literature, audio-visual materials (Murlis and discussions) on their official website, it is the responsibility of BKWSU to provide the original Murlis on their website. If they don't, it just shows their dishonesty. We are never going to beg or demand Murlis from them.
I do not think so. Because it is left to the individual's concept/belief. If I eat non veg food (or travel in aeroplane), then I cannot say it is also the responsibility of the other to eat non veg food (...). The other can travel even on a bus. The only one condition is- Each should follow driving rules. So- here each should follow non violence (dharma) . That is the only criteria.

Such claims by PBKs shows the understanding level of PBKs. But, they call themselves as gyaani tu atmas (most knowledgeful souls- after God).

If PBKs claim so- Then BKWSU can claim many things. That- the Chariot of PBKs should not read Murli and explain. - because Chariot of BKs do not do so. And BKWSU does many service activities. so- PBKs also should hve had done that in past and also in future....
As regards typing mistakes, I have already stated that whenever ShivBaba clarifies the original or early revised Murlis published by BKWSU, He takes notice of the typing mistakes and corrects them orally while giving clarification. But mbbhat does not speak a word about the huge cutting and editing of Murlis that BKWSU has been undertaking ever since it has been under the control of human gurus and ever since AIVV has started growing.
I have already said this. Why do ShivBaba of PBKs need to check earlier versions if he is God?

Regarding BKs cutting- I have already said- one to reduce gramatic errors- and today many may not have time enough to sit and listen to four pages. I had never supported it. I agree it is wrong. But, how many BKs sit, study and churn Murlis- for example- Baba says- read Murli 6 to 8 times. But, not even 0.1% BKs follow that. So- I think- to those who are eligible- Baba will help them. They will get what they deserve. Many points get repeated in Murlis. so- if something is cut in one Murlis, there is almost every probability that they will get them in another Murli.

But, of course- some cuttings done with the aim to keep BKs safe from PBKs- there may be some loss. And I think-then the ball also lies on the ground of PBKs equally since it is they who mis interpret Murli points.

And important thing is- Even if huge cutting is done, the core belief is not changed. They have not been affected by the typing errors. [Eg:- PBKs claim- 1)The name ShivBaba is based on body, 2) Brahma is different than Prajapita Brahma, 3)new introduction of concept of confluence Aged LN- the Murli points what PBKs use to prove these were found here as wrong. i have already given the proof

So- the typing errors did not affect BKs, but affected PBKs! (even though they have God with them)! what more thing needs to be said here?

And one more- PBKs do not attend Murli class daily. According to my knowledge, they gather just once in a week. But, BKs need to spend lot of time and energy in gathering everyday at BK centre. So- it takes more time for BKs than PBKs to read Murlis. And BKs need to spend their considerable time in service- which PBKs do not even up to 5% when compared to BKs.

So- the reduction of Murli- even though not correct- I feel PBKs do not have right to accuse even in this case.

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