History of the term Advance Party

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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History of the term Advance Party

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Aug 2012

From the discussion between Sita and mbbhat.
mbbhat wrote:So- do you believe the Advance Party (of PBKs) is really ready ... does not that imply the Advance Party BapDada referring is not to AIVV souls, it is for others?
sita wrote:I think the term Advance Party has come when Mama has left the body, or maybe earlier, i don't know, but when BK started to leave their bodies and the question was there, what is to happen with them, so the answer was that they have gone in advance. They are doing service.

For the BKs Advance Party refers to those souls having left their bodies.
Sita raises an interesting question here ... when did the name and concept of the "Advance Party" start.

I would like to know more about the history of this (not the different theories which I understand well enough), how and when did it first arise and so on?

I can add to our mutual understanding that in the West, the BKs suggest that many Western BKs are reborn Indian BKs and are part of the Advance Party. I, myself, was told that, but don't consider it seriously now, it seems to me just an encouragement laced with a bit of ego ... that young BKs, children even, could be elevated and experienced souls. I know other children who were brought up being told that and it made mental problems for them.

I understand most of you will take the suggest seriously, and I apologise for my skepticism, but I see the invention of the "Advance Party", as per the BKs, as a kind of fairy story to answer children's questions, e.g. "where has grandmother gone? Oh, she has gone to prepare heaven for you ...". In the beginning, they thought the world would end in WWII or 1950, no one had died, therefore they had no need for an Advance Party. They had no idea how heaven would come about and apparently thought only they ... between, say, 300 to 70 people ... would go to heaven.

The BKs' theory also raises all sorts of minor rational problems, e.g. did Om Radhe have 84 birth? If she took rebirth she would be about 46 now, therefore she will have to die again to be reborn with Lekhraj Kirpalani as Krishna ... and, by the knowledge, she should have been reborn as Radhe 12 years ago (approx). Why such a short life is she was karmateet? Therefore she must have had only 82 births at the time of Om Mandli etc etc etc.

But, let us start with the history and specific Murli points.

Thank you

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by arjun » 03 Sep 2012

Quoted from the BK Section of this forum:

278
“जैसे ड्रामा के एक्टर्स को मालूम होता है हम घर से स्टेज पर पार्ट बजाने आये हैं। वैसे हम आत्मा यह शरीर रूपी चोला लेकर पार्ट बजाती है फिर वापिस जाना है, शरीर छोड़ना पड़ता है। तुम्हें तो खुशी होनी चाहिए, डरना नहीं चाहिए। तुम बहुत कमाई कर रहे हो। शरीर छोड़ने वाले खुद भी समझ सकते हैं हमने कितनी कमाई की है। तुम समझते हो जो शरीर छोड़कर गये हैं उनमें से किसका मर्तबा बड़ा कहें, फलाने बहुत सर्विस करते थे, जाकर दूसरा शरीर लिया। इनएडवांस गये हैं। उनका इतना ही पार्ट था। फिर भी कुछ न कुछ ज्ञान लेने लिए आ जायें, हो सकता है। वारिस तो बन गये ना। किसके साथ हिसाब-किताब चुक्तू करना होगा, वह खलास करने गये। आत्मा में तो ज्ञान के संस्कार हैं ना। संस्कार आत्मा में ही रहते हैं। वह गुम नहीं हो सकते। कहाँ अच्छी जगह सर्विस करते होंगे। नॉलेज के संस्कार ले गये तो कुछ न कुछ जाकर सर्विस करेंगे। ऐसे तो नहीं सब जाते रहेंगे। नहीं। हाँ, इतना जरूर है योग में रहने से आयु बढ़ती है।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २७.०३.०८, पृ. ३)

“Just as the actors of a drama know that we have come from our home to play our part on the stage, similarly we souls take up this costume-like body and play our part; then we have to return (home); we have to leave this body. You should feel happy. You should not be afraid. You are earning a lot of income. Those who leave the body can themselves understand as to what extent they have earned the income. You can understand as to whose post can be said to be high among those who have left their bodies; those particular persons used to do a lot of service; they went and took rebirth. They have gone in advance. They had only that much part. Even then, it can be possible that they may come to obtain knowledge to some extent or the other. They have become heirs, have they not? They might have had karmic accounts with someone to settle; they have gone to settle them. The soul carries sanskars of knowledge, does it not? Sanskars are contained only in the soul. They cannot perish. They might have gone to a nice place and must be doing service. When they have gone with the sanskars of knowledge, they will do service to some extent or the other. It is not as if every soul would continue to depart. No. Yes, it is certain that one’s age increases by remaining in Yoga.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 27.03.08, pg 3 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Sep 2012

When did Virendra Dev Dixit first pick and start to use the name Advance Party for his group?

The way the BKs taught us was that the Advance Party was a number of reincarnated BKs who were leading cooperative scientists etc who would physically build the golden palaces, nuclear power stations and thought powered flying machines in order prepare the Golden Age for the rest of the BKWSU who would just come down to as deities to enjoy it all without having to do any work.

The scientists were then thought to magically die off. There was even talk of them only having one birth to do so.

Like everything else, we accepted that view without thinking about it too much. Of course, if it was true, then the Advance Party would have to include many millions of laborers to do the actual building work. Nothing was said of what happened to them.

Nothing is really said about how the Golden Age is actually built ... they have less then 24 years for Destruction, the clean up operation, nature to re-grown and to do so.

Does it really seem possible?

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by arjun » 04 Sep 2012

I think Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs have been using the term Advance Party from the beginning to indicate the people following the advance knowledge. Baba Virendra Dev Dixit's part was revealed around 1976 and by that time the term was quite popular among the BKs as it was being regularly used in the Avyakt Vanis. But as you said the explanation given by the BK Seniors about the Advance Party was not at all convincing for Baba Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs. So, it was construed that the Advance Party does not mean a handful of BKs or scientists losing their present body and getting rebirth to establish the new Golden Age consisting of 9 lakh deities. Advance Party definitely ought to be consisting of more people who were trying to establish the new Golden Age under the direct guidance of ShivBaba.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 11 Sep 2012

SM 14-11-78(3):- Yahaan toh amma marey toh bhi halvaa khaavo, beebi marey toh bhi halvaa khaavo. Royenge, peetenge nahin. Drama par mazbooth rahnaa chaahiye. Mama, BABA BHI JAAVENGE, ANANY BACHCHE BHI ADVANCE MAY JAAVENGE. Part toh bajaanaa hee hai. Ismey fikar ki kyaa baath hai? Saakshi hokar hum khel dekhte hain. Avasthaa sadaiv harshith rahni chaahiye. Baba ko bhi kitney khyaalaath aate hain. Law kahtaa hai aavenge zaroor. Aisey nahin ki Mama, Baba koyi paripoorn ho gaye. Paripoorn avasthaa anth may hogi. Is samay koyi bhi apney ko paripoorn kah na sakey. YAH NUKSAAN HUVAA, KOYI KHITPIT HUYI. AKHBAAR MAY BK KE LIYE HAAHAKAR HOTA. YAH BHI KALP PAHLEY HUVAA THAA. FIKAR KI KYAA BAATH. 100% AVASTHAA ANTH MAY HONI HAI. BAAP KI DIL PAR TAB CHADHENGE JAB RAHAMDIL BANENGE. AAP SAMAAN BANAAVENGE. Insure kiyaa, vah baath alag hai. Vah toh apney liye hee karte ho. Yah toh gyaan ratnon kaa daan auron ko denaa hai. BAAP KO POORI Yaad NA KARENGE TOH VIKARMON KAA BHOJAA JO SIR PAR HAI, VAH KHUL PADEGAA. ROG NIKAL PADEGAA. -64 [Advance Party, Yaad, Mama, prediction]

= ...Mama, Baba also will go, Anany (usually indicated to the very best) children also will go in advance...

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 26 Sep 2012

They had only that much part. Even then, it can be possible that they may come to obtain knowledge to some extent or the other. They have become heirs, have they not? They might have had karmic accounts with someone to settle; they have gone to settle them. The soul carries sanskars of knowledge, does it not? Sanskars are contained only in the soul. They cannot perish. They might have gone to a nice place and must be doing service. When they have gone with the sanskars of knowledge, they will do service to some extent or the other
They had only so much part:-

So- the possibility of all of them coming to gyaan is not high.

And , it is said- "may come". so- it implies that they may come back to BKWSU and need not go somewhere to different place to get knowledge.

And since it is said- "to some extent", it does not fit to AIVV claims.
-------
But, lot many Murli points have to be gathered to come to better conclusion.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by arjun » 27 Sep 2012

BKWSU has not been able to answer a simple query as to how a handful of BKs who have left their bodies at different times be able to give birth to nine lakh deities at the beginning of the Golden Age.

In one of the Avyakt Vanis BapDada has said that whether you go to the Advance Party or not their task will continue. So, does it mean that we have to die in order to go to the Advance Party? This appears highly improbable because in all the Sakar Murlis Baba has said that we have to save our bodies till the end to see the revelation of the Father, to achieve karmateet stage, to see destruction and establishment of heaven with our own eyes in practical.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by mbbhat » 27 Sep 2012

arjun wrote:BKWSU has not been able to answer a simple query as to how a handful of BKs who have left their bodies at different times be able to give birth to nine lakh deities at the beginning of the Golden Age.
Even PBKs have failed here to reply to many simple queries. And that too- their god is ready to do such discussions.

Many predictions of even AIVV have failed.

And- when I had asked a simple query - what is the strength of PBKs at present? - Arjun had not mentioned. [The point is- they need a 2.25 lakh souls from their own side first before sister Vedanti starts to depart from BKWSU, is it not?]
------
And- BKWSU does not mis interpret like PBKs. [Murli says- those who have left body go to Advance Party. But, for PBKs , it need not be so. they took half knowledge from it, and put title of Advance Party on themselves without enough proof from mruli points, and even when many are against them- Is this not a type of hiranyakashyap?].
-----------
And, I have just mentioned one possibility of how deities will take birth.

here- http://bk-pbk.info/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2422&start=90


And, Baba has said- many new things he will tell in future. So- knowledge in BKWSU is not complete.

And, if I say- I do not know- I do not feel any humiliation. Because it will be known when it is necessary.

To what extent we have become pure? that is the more important, is it not?
--------------
1)In one of the Avyakt Vanis BapDada has said that whether you go to the Advance Party or not their task will continue. 2)So, does it mean that we have to die in order to go to the Advance Party? 3)This appears highly improbable because in all the Sakar Murlis Baba has said that we have to save our bodies till the end to see the revelation of the Father, to achieve karmateet stage, to see destruction and establishment of heaven with our own eyes in practical.
1)If possible, give with Hindi words and date.

2) But, it neither gives certificate to assume and claim as what PBKs have done. [I have already said- there is need to gather enough Murli points about AP . Then only conclusion can be better].

3) Totally wrong. No Sakar Murli says- you should try to save your body till end. "You should always be ready to leave your body".

Even the Murli quoted in this thread (second post)by arjun soul says- you should be happy and not afraid to leave the body.

The only point is- one should leave body with good stage.

So- does arjun soul feel- the experience of bodyless stage, seed stage or the super sensuous joy attained by Yoga is higher than to see the physical destruction, heaven, revelation of Father, etc by physical eyes of the present body?

Actually, - Father is already reveled to BKs/PBKs (as per their belief). then what great benefit will be there when it will be revelead in the end. Of course, it is like chocolates, and not food.
For what duration those enjoyment would be? Is that higher or the yogi life in Confluence Age higher?

And, even if leave our present body , we will get another body. So- what is loss there? [of course, the initial 10 to 12 years is a loss till the child attains enough intellect to imbibe knowledge*].

In the next body, one may get vision of the past birth (BK life) at that time of revelation, and he can still enjoy.

And, if one does not get body. like BBaba, even then he will have full knowledge and no loss to him. He also will witness the revelation.

It is very ridiculous to see philosophy of PBKs which say- to save their body is the one of the top priorities in the spiritual life.
------------
* this is my thinking:- I think- those BKs whose stage was not good at the time of death, will come back to take knowledge. Others who had good stage by the time of death, will go to do service or to settle some karmic accounts.

Because when they already have earned enough, why should they come to gyaan once again?

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Sep 2012

I read that the BKs are back to kidnapping PBKs up in Mount Abu and holding them against their will, and yet the PBKs are making converts even up in Mount Abu where the sevadharis have seen too much of the corruption that goes on. Until the BKs stop such hypocritical activities, no one will be able to take their claims to divinity seriously. No amount of attacks or name calling against other parties will change that public impression.

Of course, the BKs keep trying to hide their shadow side, and spend crores on marketing, but people sense something is wrong. The light in this world is increasing and more and more people are seeing into the BKs' dark corners.
mbbhat wrote:Even PBKs have failed here to reply to many simple queries. And that too- their god is ready to do such discussions.
You have had endless replies here, Mbbat (... and we have had this discussion before).

You're not asking questions to gain answers. All you are doing is attempting to attack, confuse and provoke by repeating deliberately confused questions. And you're knowledge of PBKism suggests to me that you are not being entirely honest about who you are or your involvement with them.

Why not just go and ask Virendra Dev Dixit yourself? It seems the obvious thing to do. There is no spiritual or personal benefit to what you are doing here.

The truth is, you don't want answers. Even if you were given an answer you would deny it. Even where there are huge, glaring omissions or evidence, you ignore them.
  • Someone gives you an answer ... you say it is not an answer.
    Someone asks you a question ... you don't answer, just turn away and ignore it.
    Someone says you don't answer ... you say you did answer, or you don't need to answer.
What's the point? It's like a childish game of "is ... is not ... is ... is not ... is not ...", and name calling.

At the end of the day, it all boils down to two things,
  • a) faith (which is large unprovable),
    b) dharna or good behaviour (which is plainly evident).
The BKs crimes and failings will always be first, bigger and more often than the PBKs. You cannot look for an excuse to behave badly in whatever the PBKs do.

As a BK, your Baba says you have to be sweet as sugar in milk and get a pass mark from everyone etc, and everyone has a right to demand and expect of you the highest code of conduct. I am sorry to remind you of this but at present your code of conduct, logic and yuktis fall far short of heavenly perfection.

I would say rather than "sugar in milk" you're behaving like an sticky turd that refuses to flush down the drain. You're giving off a bad smell and when you finally go, all you will leave is a bad stain.

You have not done, written or researched one objectively useful thing since you have been on these forums. You have not given or shared anything valuable.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by Roy » 30 Sep 2012

A few points on this topic, with interpretations in brackets, based on my study of advance knowledge....

"Advance Party is doing service by transforming the corporeal body (nar to Narayan in this very birth), but the role of some (souls) continues till the end through the corporeal and also the subtle form. What is your role? Does anyone have a role in the Advance Party? Does anyone have a role of service through the subtle body (Antahvaahak sharir)? Both have different importance (corporeal and subtle bodied souls). It's not a question of first or second. It's the importance of variety role (as both are required). The task of the Advance Party is also not less important. I had told that they are preparing their own plans zestfully. They are well known even there (in Farrukhabad, UP)." [Av 25.01.80]

*"Not that Mama and Baba(Radhe & Krishna) have become complete(karmateet). The complete stage will be achieved (by both of them) only in the end (before the start of Mahabharata War of the outside world - not the final nuclear war, that takes place some years later, in 2036/7). Presently, nobody can call himself complete." [Mu 14.11.78]

"First and foremost Mama(Saraswati) achieved the best position... she achieved the karmatit stage... she transcended all bodily sorrows (but hadn't finished her study to become complete in knowledge)." [Mu 09.05.66]

"Your Mama has ascended to the Subtle Regions. Her karmic accounts of the physical world ended (but she wasn't complete in knowledge at this time)." [Mu 21.06.66]

"Although Mama(Radhe) doesn’t possess a (corporeal) body, she continues to make efforts (through her subtle body). She goes out on service. She enters into the bodies of children and shows the path to the sinful to become pure." [Mu 22.07.72]

"Many children are going in advance; one should not feel bad. They will go and receive... time is also required to receive. Mother(Mama Om Radhe) and Father(Brahma Baba Krishna) must depart first, is not it (to play their roles in the Advance Party, through their subtle bodies)?" [Mu 27.02.73]

"Until his(Prajapita Brahma's aka Shankar) body is there, you (Brahma Baba Krishna, and all true Brahmins) have to sip the nectar of (Advance) Knowledge (through him - the Murlis narrated between 1951-1969, are the Ganges or Water of Knowledge, not the Nectar of Knowledge). When you (Brahma Baba Krishna) attain the karmateet stage (first of all at the end - Brahma so Vishnu) the war will begin (in the outside world)." [Mu 19.11.72]

"If Mama and Baba enter into someone (in their subtle bodies), then they can sit there itself and study through them." [Mu 27.08.05]

"This (Brahma Baba Krishna) has also not become complete. Until he attains the (complete) Karmateet stage (at the end), I (Shiv) shall continue to teach (through Shankar). You will also continue to study and teach." [Mu 26.06.75]

"I (Shiv) enter in this body. This is the permanent Chariot (Prajapita Brahma-Shankar, who will be in corporeal form until the end). He(Shiv) never enters into anyone else at all (to play the role of Father) . Yes, sometimes Mama(Om Radhe Saraswati) and sometimes (Brahma)Baba can enter in the children to render help (via their subtle bodies)." [Mu 08.01.75]

“Ultimately there will be nothing else but this atomic bomb for the destruction of the world. For that neither an army is needed nor a captain. Now-a-days they have made such arrangements that they will explode the bomb while sitting there. You obtain Kingship while sitting here (face to face with Ram ShivBaba - Shiv+Prajapita-Ram), and there they destroy everyone while sitting at one place. Your (the souls who have recognised Father Shiv in His permanent Chariot, Prajapita-Shankar) knowledge and Yoga, and their instruments of death become equal (hence you are able to survive the final nuclear destruction, to give birth to the Golden Age children, like Radhe-Krishna, after 2036).” [Mu 20.07.09]

"Destruction will take place, everyone will perish... who will remain? Those who remain pure on Godly direction. Only they will follow the Father’s advice (through Prajapita-Shankar) and obtain the inheritance of world kingdom (directly in this very birth - nar to Narayayn)." [Mu 06.09.76]

“Those who listen to a little (knowledge) will also become subjects (in their next birth). Anyone listening to a little (knowledge) in front of (Ram Shiv)Baba will become instrumental. Father says - whoever comes before Me (with the complete faith, that I, Father Shiv, am playing the role of Father, through Prajapita-Shankar aka Ram) and listens to a few holy sentences, will not be destroyed (during final destruction)." [Mu 09.05.76]

“Father (Shiv) alone establishes the pure family cult after coming down on earth. That is why four arms have been shown for Vishnu - Parvati(Sita) with Shankar(Ram), and Saraswati(Radhe) with Brahma(Krishna).” (These four souls that at the end of the Confluence Age combine to form Vishnu, become the first family unit of the Golden Age, when Ram-Sita, give birth to Radhe-Krishna, after 2036/7) [Mu 23.01.90]

"There is no such thing that Shankar-Parvati(Ram-Sita) does not exist at all (in corporeal form in the Confluence Age). This is a corporeal world." [Mu 08.05.70]

"In the case of snakes, there is no question of rebirth. It sheds the old skin and gets a new skin. Similarly, you too have to change over (Father Shiv is describing the process, that will take place in the bodies of the 450,000 karmateet souls of the Sun Dynasty, who are those who recognised the part of Father, played by Father Shiv through Prajapita-Ram in the Confluence Age. After final nuclear destruction in 2036/7; all the impure souls of the world will have returned to the Soul World; thus allowing the 5 elements of nature, to become totally pure... this includes, the old tamopradhan bodies of the pure karmateet souls, who will return to them, after a brief visit to the Soul World)." [Mu 27.07.77]

"You have to become satopradhan(pure) while remembering the Father. The Father has come only to show the path. This body will remain old till the end(2036/7 - after which time, it will become rejuvenated). These are just bodily organs with which the soul has a connection. The soul becomes like a flower(karmateet - totally soul conscious) and then performs good actions as well (through this old degraded body)." [Mu 02.07.09]

"Although someone may be a millionaire here, but they are still sad, because their body cannot be rejuvenated. Your body(Ram-Sita and 450,000 Sun Dynasty souls) is rejuvenated (after final world destruction, in 2036)." [Mu 28.01.73]

"Father sits and explains the meaning. Just as a snake sheds its old skin, on its own; it doesn't leave one body and enter another. Only the snake is an example of changing skin. It can be seen shedding its skin, just as a person undresses. The snake also leaves the skin and gets a new one. The snake remains alive (just as 450,000 Karmateet Sun Dynasty souls will, after surviving the final nuclear destruction in 2036/7; whereafter, their bodies which have been preserved in the ice formed due to the nuclear winter that follows final destruction, in 2036... can finally transform to become satopradhan or pure, after the Sun Dynasty souls return to them as the ice gradually thaws. Gradually these 450,000, will become 900,000 as the Golden Age progresses)." [Mu 18.07.70]

"There (in the Golden Age), in the beginning (i.e. from 2036 onwards), there will be 9-10 lakhs(900,000+ deity souls) on the entire Earth." [Mu 10.03.75]

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by fluffy bunny » 30 Sep 2012

Whether one believes and accepts what the PBKs say or not, one has to respect their dedicated interest in the knowledge and for raising interesting points like that of Mama entering the body of BK followers to study and do service etc. Whoever felt that?

I follow the BKs' forum and they don't bring up anything a fraction interesting as all this.

They are more interested in the Bhakti of the Seniors, and non-Gyani marketing.

I am not sure the original Murlis had the date 2036 stuck in though, did they?

I am especially cautious of the 1977 Murli which is claimed to have "final Destruction of 2036" written in it.

Until we have a published collection of the most original Murlis we are all a little vulnerable to being manipulated by those who claim control of them.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by arjun » 01 Oct 2012

mbbhat wrote:And- when I had asked a simple query - what is the strength of PBKs at present? - Arjun had not mentioned.
I had mentioned that I don't know the exact number and that mbbhat can write to AIVV to know the information. Anyway, I think it is less than a lakh.
And- BKWSU does not mis interpret like PBKs.
The fact is - It has badly failed to interpret Murlis correctly. The declaration of destruction in 1976 and the declaration of 1976/77 as the year of revelation of the Father was wrongly interpreted. The BKWSU also gave it in writing to the Government that they will surrender all their properties if destruction did not take place in 1976. They have no answer why 1977 was declared as the year of revelation of the Father when revelation did not take place at all.

And once their declaration failed, they started violating Shrimat regarding properties on a large scale. Baba said in the Murlis that they should not acquire properties at places other than Madhuban, Mount Abu, they could just manage by taking houses on rent, but they started acquiring properties worth millions of dollars all over the world and stocking them with all kinds of luxuries even if the BK students themselves don't have such luxuries at home. Is this not a blatant misinterpretation or violation of Murlis? But mbbhat Bhai sees no wrong in BKWSU. He is free to have his opinion.
And, Baba has said- many new things he will tell in future.
BapDada has not said anything new in BKWSU from 1969 till date. All AVs are just points of dharana and seva.
1)If possible, give with Hindi words and date.
I will.
3) Totally wrong. No Sakar Murli says- you should try to save your body till end. "You should always be ready to leave your body".
जो दिव्य दृष्टि से दिख़ाया था, वह सब इन आँखों से देखेंगे । विष्णु का साक्षात्कार किया है । वहाँ भी प्रैक्टिकल जायेंगे । फिर साक्षात्कार होना बन्द हो जाता है. सतयुग त्रेता में न साक्षात्कार न भक्ति । फिर भक्तिमार्ग से यह सब बातें शुरु होती हैं । कितनी अच्छी-अच्छी बातें बाबा समझातें हैं । जो फिर बच्चों को औरों को समझानी हैं । “ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली तारीक 19/11/07, पृष्ठ 4)
Whatever was shown through visions will be seen through these eyes. We have had visions of Vishnu. We will also go there in practical. Then visions will cease to happen. In the Golden Age and Silver Age there is neither vision nor Bhakti. All these things start again from the path of worship. Baba explains such nice things which children have to then explain to others.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.11.07, pg 4 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that we will see through these eyes whatever was shown through visions. We will go to heaven in practical. How can it be through these eyes and in practical if we leave this body?

"Mai aatma is shareeer say alag hoon – yah samajhnaa goya jeetey jee marnaa. Aap muay mar gayi duniya. Mitra, sambandhi aadi sabko chod diya. Pehley poori shiksha lekar martabey kay adhikaari ban fir jaana hai. Baap ko Yaad karnaa toh bahut sahaj hai. Bhal koi beemaar ho, unko bhi kahtey rahnaa chaahiye ki ShivBaba ko Yaad karo toh vikarma vinaash hongey. Jo pakkey yogi hain, unkay liye jaldee marnaa bhi achha nahee hai kyonki vah Yoga may rahkar roohani seva kartey hain. Mar jaayengey toh seva kar nahee sakengey. Seva karney say apnaa oonch pad banaatey rahengey aur Bhai-behnon kee seva bhi hogi." (Brahmakumariyon dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli, dinaank 17.04.06, pg 2)

"I am soul different from this body – realizing this is as if dying while remaining alive (jeetey jee marnaa). If you die, then the world is dead for you (aap muay mar gayi duniya). You have left all your friends, relatives, etc. First we have to obtain the complete education, become entitled to the post and then depart. It is very easy to remember Father. Although someone may be ill, one should keep telling him/her also - Remember ShivBaba; then your sins will get burnt. For those who are pakka yogis, it is not good to die also, because they remain in Yoga (remembrance) and do spiritual service (roohani seva). If they die, then they would not be able to do service. By doing service they would keep elevating their post and the service of brothers and sisters would also take place.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 17.04.06, pg 2 published by BKs)

In the above Murli Baba is speaking about dying from body consciousness and not physically. Baba is also telling that pakka yogis will not leave their bodies. This proves that all the Seniors who have left their bodies were not pakka yogis. There are many more proofs, but for a person like mbbhat no Murli proof is sufficient because he thinks himself to be greater than ShivBaba. So, he is free to aim to die like Brahma Baba, Mama and other Dadis. We don't want to die but to remain in Yoga and seva as per Baba's directions.

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by arjun » 01 Oct 2012

mbbhat wrote:1)If possible, give with Hindi words and date.
"एडवांस पार्टी का क्या कार्य चल रहा है? आप लोगों के लिए आज सारी फ़ील्ड तैयार कर रहे हैं। उनके परिवार में जाओ, न जाओ; लेकिन जो स्थापना का कार्य होना है, उसके लिए वह निमित्त बनेंगे। कोई पावरफुल स्टेज लेकर निमित्त बनेंगे। ऐसे पावर्स लेंगे जिससे स्थापना के कार्य में मददगार बनेंगे। आजकल आप देखेंगे दिन-प्रतिदिन न्यू ब्लड का रिगार्ड ज़्यादा है। जितना आगे बढ़ेंगे उतना छोटों की बुद्धि काम करेगी, जो कि बड़ों की नहीं। बड़ी आयु की तुलना में फिर भी छोटेपन में सतोप्रधानता रहती है। कुछ न कुछ प्यूरिटी की पावर होने के कारण उनकी बुद्धि जो काम करेगी वह बड़ों की नहीं करेगी। यह चेन्ज होगी। बड़े भी बच्चों की राय को रिगार्ड देंगे। अब भी जो बड़े हैं वह समझते हैं कि हम तो पुराने ज़माने के हैं, यह आजकल के हैं। उनको रिगार्ड न देंगे और उन्हें बड़ा समझ नहीं चलावेंगे तो काम नहीं चलेगा। पहले बच्चों को रोब से चलाते थे। अभी ऐसे नहीं। ... छोटे ही कमाल कर दिखावेंगे। एडवांस पार्टी का तो अपना कार्य चल रहा है; लेकिन वह भी आपकी स्थिति एडवांस में जाने के लिए रुके हुए हैं। उनका कार्य भी आपके कनेक्शन से चलना है।" (अ.वा.2.8.73 पृ.151 म, 152 आ.)
"What is the work being done by the Advance Party? They will prepare the field for you all. Whether you go to their family or not, but they will be instrumental for the task of establishment which has to take place. They will become instrumental with a powerful stage. They will gain such powers as to become helpful in the task of establishment. Now a days you see that there's so much respect for the new blood. The more they move forward the intellect of the elders will not work as much as the intellect of the young ones. When compared to the elders there's more purity (satopradhanata) in the childhood. Because of the power of purity their intellect will work more than that of the elders. This change will be noticed. Elders will also give due respect to the advice of the children. Even now, those who are old, think that they belong to the bygone age. These belong to the present generation. If we don't give respect or deal with them as important persons then our work will not proceed. Earlier the children used to be dealt with egoistically. Now it's not so.... The young ones will only do wonders. Advance Party's work is going on but they are also waiting for the advancement of your stage. Their work is also connected with you." (A.V.10.7.78, pg.349)

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by Roy » 01 Oct 2012

fluffy bunny wrote:I am not sure the original Murlis had the date 2036 stuck in though, did they? I am especially cautious of the 1977 Murli which is claimed to have "final Destruction of 2036" written in it.
No i don't think there is any mention of 2036 in any Sakar Murli or Avyakt Vani... any mention of 2036 in the points i have raised, are placed in brackets as advance knowledge interpretations. However, when you bring the points about the Confluence Age together, it is clear that ShivBaba is telling us, that the Confluecnce Age does last for the full 100 years, and thus for Brahma Baba to think that the final destrucution was coming in 1976, shows how little the BKs really understood about the knowledge they were being given at the time. This is why the first 40 years of the Confluence Age are called the "night path" in advance knowledge. This 40 year period is mentioned at the foot of the Ladder picture, that depicts the Copper and Iron Ages of the Confluence Age, not the Broad 5000 year Drama. Although the Brahmin souls had knowledge at this time, no-one understood much more than we are souls, Father Shiv is a soul, and that the drama is cyclic and lasts for 5000 years. It's easy for souls who have studied advance knowledge to see what was going on in retrospect; but at the time these things simply weren't clear.

http://www.brahmakumaris.info/w/uploads ... Ladder.jpg (click on any part of the picture to enlarge)

“When all becomes Tamopradhan (totally morally degraded) then the end of Kaliyuga begins, and I (Shiv) come in the Sangam Yuga of that Kalpa.” [Mu 12.05.73]

“I (Shiv) am called Patit Pavan (liberator of the downgraded sinful)... Then surely I would come here on earth (and enter a physical body or Chariot, in order to play this role). Hardly I liberate the sinful by inspiration.” [Mu 24.02.74]

" I (Shiv) come at the Confluence Age of every Cycle. I inspire the Destruction of the old world (through Shankar)." [Mu 06.08.03]

"Despite being actors of the drama... if he doesn't know the main actors, director, creator and the beginning, middle, and end of the (Confluence Age) drama... then he is senseless." [Mu.14.08.76]

"Now is the Sangam(yuga). The Father doesn’t stay here for long. Still it takes 100 years. When the upheavals are over, the Kingdom (of Heaven-Ramraj) starts (in practical form, in 2036/7)." [Mu 13.10.96]

"Confluence Age requires at least 100 years, is not it?" [Mu 03.10.69]

"Now it is the Confluence Age. It should be given 100 years." [Mu 03.11.76]

"You can expect this Confluence Age (to last for) 100 years, at the most." [Mu 01.12.72]

"The entire world can become new in 100 years." [Mu 17.03.69]

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Re: History of the term Advance Party

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Oct 2012

arjun wrote:The BKWSU also gave it in writing to the Government that they will surrender all their properties if destruction did not take place in 1976. They have no answer why 1977 was declared as the year of revelation of the Father when revelation did not take place at all.
Just to prove what the Brahma Kumaris are like ...

When their god or Lekhraj Kirpalani gave in writing to the India government that they would surrender all their properties if Destruction did not come ... in London, UK Dadi Janki Kirpalani was buying MORE freehold property. Now we know why so many gods in India have two or more faces.

It's called moving their investments offshore in business and what the Sindhis have been doing for generations.

And how many BKs did the Brahma Kumaris have in 1976, mbbhat? Did they have the full 900,000 or 1,800,000 mothers and fathers, or had they touched the 330,000,000 then?

How many BKs did they have in 1950 when they thought the world would end ... 70 or 80?


Pot. Kettle. Black.

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