Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

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mbbhat
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by mbbhat » 09 Nov 2012

It is correct , how ever you take or feel, because everything is right as per drama.

I think, you are going off topic, but even then it is fully right, because you are a complete soul.

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shivsena
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 09 Nov 2012

fluffy bunny wrote:But, let's be clear, just because Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba does not make it any more likely that Lekhraj Kirpalani is god or has a monopoly on god being inside him either.

What we need to work towards is an even better understand of what "god" is.
Very rightly said.
We all need to work towards finding who is this Holy Spirit who is going to make all souls HOLY.

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Roy
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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 11 Nov 2012

shivsena wrote:Virendra Dev Dixit(supposed ShivBaba) sits for hours in the morning, first giving dhristi (ie teaching hatyoga), and then gossipping for hours with PBKs discussing the Bhakti-queries....He never seems to get tired of answering the time-wasting queries and the vartalap sessions end only when PBKs get tired and stop asking queries.
These vartalap sessions should itself be an eye-opener to logical minded PBKs, that Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be ShivBaba.
What is wrong with sharing some quality spiritual time with God?... when ShivBaba shares His drishti with you this is great thing, and is talked about in the Sakar Murlis; so this is not something being made-up by Virendra Dev Dixit ji.

“I give Sakaash (searchligh or drishti) to each soul one by one, give light sitting in front. I suppose you would not do the same.” [Mu 15.04.74]

As for the vartalap sessions, this is Baba giving souls a chance to get answers to their questions... you won't find this happening in the BK Yagya. The fact that so many questions are Bhakti oriented, reveals that souls are still having to deal with their Bhakti sanskars, and Baba is helping them to get past this. This for me shows the love and patience of the Godfather.

"Father (Shiv) cannot go to large gatherings. This is children's work. (Father will) ask questions and get answers from children. Sanyasis(BKs) etc. will not meet Father face to face (as they haven't recognised that this part is being played through the corporeal Father, Prajapita-Ram). They(BK Dadis) want respect(positions of power in the Yagya) and, (Shiv)Baba's role is very wonderful (and incognito)." [Mu 12.10.72]

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 13 Nov 2012

Roy wrote:
“I give Sakaash (searchligh or drishti) to each soul one by one, give light sitting in front. I suppose you would not do the same.” [Mu 15.04.74]
What is the study of RajYoga ??
By definition RajYoga means intellectual connection between the soul and Supreme Soul...not physical connection of the eyes of the so-called Chariot with the eyes of the student....in Murlis it is said that : "Eyes are the most criminal of all organs...they only see the physical body"...so giving dhristi and taking dhristi is manmat of Virendra Dev Dixit and not Shrimat...Also it is said that Father never tells the child to sit in front of him and remember him...the child has to be in rememberence throughout the day while doing all types of karma and be a karmyogi.(Mu:5-11-01:"Bap ka direction hai chalte-phirte, utthe-baithe Bap ko Yaad karo."..."Father's direction is to remember Him while walking and doing all types of work etc ")...sitting in one posture for hours and giving dhristi to his followers is certainly hatyoga (meant for karm-sannaysis only)....So Virendra Dev Dixit is definitely a karm-sannayasi (Shankara-charya) who is teaching hatyoga to his followers and not ShivBaba teaching RajYoga.

shivsena.

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 13 Nov 2012

shivsena wrote:sitting in one posture for hours and giving dhristi to his followers is certainly hatyoga (meant for karm-sannaysis only)....So Virendra Dev Dixit is definitely a karm-sannayasi (Shankara-charya) who is teaching hatyoga to his followers and not ShivBaba teaching RajYoga.
I cannot agree with this Shivsena Bhai; as to enjoy soul consciousness drishti with the Father Himself, has got to be a great event, and not one you can experience everyday. For some it may only be a one-time event... This practise should not be undertaken by any soul other than the Father, because as you say; we all still have criminal eyes.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 14 Nov 2012

shivsena wrote:sitting in one posture for hours and giving dhristi to his followers is certainly hatyoga (meant for karm-sannaysis only)....So Veerendra Dev Dixit is definitely a karm-sannayasi (Shankara-charya) who is teaching hatyoga to his followers and not ShivBaba teaching RajYoga.
Shivsena Bhai, I don't agree with your views because first of all ShivBaba does not give drishti to the PBKs through Baba Virendra Dev Dixit for hours together. He gives drishti only for a period varying from a half an hour to an hour depending on the number of PBKs sitting in the gathering. Otherwise, during the PBK gatherings when Baba is not physically present, the PBKs practice RajYoga (remembrance) only for about half an hour daily. Even as regards Amrit Vela, ShivBaba has clarified that if someone is feeling sleepy during remembrance at Amrit Vela, he/she can remember while doing any other work or start reading Murlis to avoid drowsiness.

And as Roy Bhai has pointed out, in our Brahmin family ShivBaba alone is entitled to give drishti as per Murlis. So, if he gives drishti to the PBKs (especially to the new souls) before the commencement of Murli, then there is nothing against Shrimat in this.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 15 Nov 2012

arjun wrote: And as Roy Bhai has pointed out, in our Brahmin family ShivBaba alone is entitled to give drishti as per Murlis. So, if he gives drishti to the PBKs (especially to the new souls) before the commencement of Murli, then there is nothing against Shrimat in this.
What is the purpose of giving dhristi to PBKs and is the purpose achieved ??

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 15 Nov 2012

shivsena wrote:What is the purpose of giving dhristi to PBKs and is the purpose achieved ??
My view of this is that souls have the opportunity of experiencing the incorporeality of Father Shiv through this... The more soul conscious you are, the more you will experience his spiritual power, and be taken to an even higher level of soul consciousness or bodiless experience. This is a good way of recognising or understanding, how far you still have to go in your practise of being bodiless and detached.

I have to add, that i have yet to take part in such an event, and so i am only speculating here... you must have taken part in this many times Shivsena Bhai, so it would be interesting to learn of your experiences.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 15 Nov 2012

Roy wrote: I have to add, that i have yet to take part in such an event, and so i am only speculating here... you must have taken part in this many times Shivsena Bhai, so it would be interesting to learn of your experiences.
For 90 % of the time, i was desperately trying to stay awake when Virendra Dev Dixit was not looking at me...and only for the few minutes he was giving dhristi to me, i could stay awake ..and frankly telling i could not experience any difference before and after the dhristi session.

If you have not yet taken the Advance Course personally, then i would request you to come to India soon and meet Virendra Dev Dixit personally to experience first hand about adv-Gyan and meet the PBKs here.

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 15 Nov 2012

shivsena wrote:For 90 % of the time, i was desperately trying to stay awake when Virendra Dev Dixit was not looking at me...and only for the few minutes he was giving dhristi to me, i could stay awake ..and frankly telling i could not experience any difference before and after the dhristi session.
Dear Shivsena Bhai, i appreciate your candour in this matter. Was this always your experience, or is this what it became with time, as you where a PBK for about 10 years if i remember correctly? Where you tired from awakening early, or did this experience pass once class had finished? Was this the universal experience, or did others have more powerful ones?
shivsena wrote:If you have not yet taken the Advance Course personally, then i would request you to come to India soon and meet Virendra Dev Dixit personally to experience first hand about adv-Gyan and meet the PBKs here.
Well I am working towards this; but it may be a while yet before i am in a position to go to India.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by arjun » 16 Nov 2012

shivsena wrote:What is the purpose of giving dhristi to PBKs and is the purpose achieved ??
The purpose of giving drishti is to help those souls who wish to take drishti from ShivBaba in corporeal form, to help those who may not be able to make high efforts on their own during the absence of Baba, but wish to get help from Baba in elevating their stage by getting power from the generator. It is not that one cannot get power from Baba when He is not physically present. One can definitely get. But, in case of some souls, they may not be able to make efforts despite their best efforts. In such cases, practice of rajyog during personal meeting with ShivBaba can help, provided that they sincerely make efforts to remain soul conscious during that meeting. If someone remains body conscious even in the presence of ShivBaba, then it is of no use sitting face to face.

Baba has also said that there is a difference between His inner love and external love. Someone may be physically looking at ShivBaba in body consciousness, but if he is not in soul consciousness, then ShivBaba's power might be received by someone else who is in soul consciousness either in the same gathering or anywhere in the world. These topics have been explained in detail in various discussions and Murlis.

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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by shivsena » 17 Nov 2012

Roy wrote:
Dear Shivsena Bhai, i appreciate your candour in this matter. Was this always your experience, or is this what it became with time, as you where a PBK for about 10 years if i remember correctly? Where you tired from awakening early, or did this experience pass once class had finished? Was this the universal experience, or did others have more powerful ones?
Dear roy Bhai.
I always had this problem of identifying which bindi was shiv...when i was in basic, i used to ask the sisters which bindi in Paramdham is shiv..they used to tell me that one who is in highest position is shiv...i could not differentiate between all the bindis in Paramdham..the same was happening when i tried to remember shiv in -Virendra Dev Dixit's body...i could never be sure whether i was remembering Krishna's soul or Ram's soul or Shiv...so this subtle confusion put me to sleep.
I cannot vouch for others but when i asked them, they also could not clear my doubt.

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 17 Nov 2012

shivsena wrote:I always had this problem of identifying which bindi was shiv...when i was in basic, i used to ask the sisters which bindi in Paramdham is shiv..they used to tell me that one who is in highest position is shiv...i could not differentiate between all the bindis in Paramdham..the same was happening when i tried to remember shiv in -Virendra Dev Dixit's body...i could never be sure whether i was remembering Krishna's soul or Ram's soul or Shiv...so this subtle confusion put me to sleep.
I cannot vouch for others but when i asked them, they also could not clear my doubt.
Dear Shivsena Bhai, once again i am grateful for your openess about your experiences as a PBK.

This is an interesting theme and one i can relate to; as i always had a problem with whether i should remember Father Shiv in Paramdham, or in Brahma Baba's subtle body. I was pulled and most comfortable, remembering Him in Paramdham, but i never felt totally easy with the whole thing.

As far as AK goes though; i have slowly become more and more comfortable in remembering Father Shiv in the body of Ram(Virendra Dev Dixit); and don't think all that much about Krishna being there too, except for when discussing the topic with others. There obviously is not a problem with acknowledging Krishna is there, as long as that doesn't become your exclusive remembrance at the expense of Father Shiv. Baba has said that PBKs always have the form of Ardhanarishwar in front of them in their intellects, when they remember both Ram and Krishna are there in the body of Virendra Dev Dixit. However, i always try to remember who is the soul who actually gives us the inheritance... who is the one who is ever pure, the one we have to tune into to become incorporeal ourselves. So first my intellect goes to Ram, the corporeal Chariot or home of Father Shiv... and then i remember it is Father Shiv who is the incorporeal one, the one whom i have to hold in my intellect to become pure. Not that my remembrance is that good to be honest, but i am very comfortable with this form of remembrance now.

I can see how your confusion about who you were remembering would cause you great problems in AK, especially in the long term; and i am sorry about this. But for me it's all about keeping it as simple as possible. The Sakar Murlis i read in the 80s were constantly saying; consider yourself a soul and remember the Father, and this was my favourite part by far. So for the most part i kept this as my aim. Now as i have been studying AK; i have simply transferred my focus from the Father being in the Paramdham beyond the stars, to Him being in the body of the corporeal Father or corporeal Paramdham, Ram. Krishna may well be there playing his part in Ram... but i am not going to receive an inheritance by remembering him... only Incorporeal Father Shiv gives the inheritance, through the body of Ram aka Prajapita Brahma. This makes it easier for me to keep my attention on Father Shiv.

I feel these point makes it very clear...

"Ram’s Kingdom (Ramraj-Heaven) can be obtained only through Ram(Prajapita Brahma)." [Mu 17.07.72]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) is not the Creator of Heaven(Ramraj). Only the Incorporeal Supreme Soul (Shiv) comes and creates Heaven(Ramraj) through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"The Supreme Soul is Incorporeal. He gives (the practical) inheritance of (Heaven) to his children, only through the corporeal Father (Prajapita-Ram). " [Mu 31.01.75]

"ShivBaba bestows the inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars, through (the corporeal Father) Prajapita Brahma(Ram). ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through (the mother) Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 01.03.76]

"Knowing Father (Shiv) through (corporeal) Father (Prajapita-Ram aka Shankar), is termed (advance) knowledge." [Mu 03.03.06]

"Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called Father-Teacher-Satguru." [Mu 17.07.88]

" Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called spiritual (or alokik) Father (as he is the elder mother)." [Mu 28.10.90]

"Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be anybody's Father. He is a small child(a soul with a child-like intellect, who becomes) the prince of the Golden Age. He cannot be a teacher too. He himself sits and studies from a teacher(i.e. in the body of Prajapita-Ram from 1969)." [Mu 17.11.00]

"If Mama(Radhe) and Baba(Baba Krishna) enter into someone (in their subtle bodies), then they can sit there itself and study through them." [Mu 27.08.05]

mbbhat
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Re: Why Veerendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by mbbhat » 23 Nov 2012

SM 14-2-89(1):- Baap ko Yaad karne se hee vikarm vinash hota hai. Harek ko apney liye mehnath karni padti hai. Aisey naheen Baba baith drushti denge ki inkey paap cut jaaye. Baap baith yah dhandhaa naheen karthay. Yoon toh sabko dekhenge hee. Dekhney vaa gyaan dene se vikarm vinaash naheen honge. -59-

= Sins are burnt by remembrance of Father. Each needs to put effort for oneself. It is not that Father gives drushti to burn someones sins. Father does not sit and do this work/business. Of course, he will see all. By seeing or by giving knowledge, sins do not get burnt.

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Re: Why Virendra Dev Dixit cannot be personified ShivBaba.

Post by Roy » 23 Nov 2012

mbbhat wrote:Sins are burnt by remembrance of Father. Each needs to put effort for oneself. It is not that Father gives drushti and sin of that gets burnt. Father does not sit and do this work/business. Of course, he will see all. By seeing or by giving knowledge, sins do not get burnt.

Nice point mbbhat Bhai, thank you for posting it... but what if anything are you trying to say? The fact that ShivBaba's drishti does not burn sins is not news to most i would imagine... the Sakar murls are always telling us to be soul conscious and remember the Father, whom we first have to identify in corporeal form. Drishti with ShivBaba is about having a soul conscious experience, not about burning sins.

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