Lies/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of ...

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arjun
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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by arjun » 12 Aug 2012

mbbhat wrote:No need. Because that is also against srimath and definitely ego of knowledge. Because Murli says- remember me. Your lock of intellect will open.
It is foolishness to ask one more bread before finishing the present one on the plate or asking next question before completing the homework.

Knowledge sits only in pure intellect. so- unless one becomes pure, he cannot understand- give him bunches of Murli or let him stay with Chariot or let him get lots of vision.

So- not only your questions, even questions arising in BKs will have no value- They are like samshay buddhi= doubtful intellects.
Your above answer reminds me of your own description of PBKs using the proverb of grapes being sour.
Neither can you convey our questions to BapDada or Dadis nor can they answer our questions. This is why its your ego which says there is no need for BapDada to answer questions. But Murlis say that if you do not understand anything ask BapDada. People like you will neither ask nor allow anyone else to ask. You only want darkness of ignorance to prevail forever.

“हर एक बात अच्छी रीति समझो। कुछ भी समझ में ना आए तो पूछ सकते हो। नोट करो, यह यह बातें बाबा से पूछना है। मुख्य है ही बाप के याद की बात। बाकी कोई संशय आदि है तो उनको ठीक कर देंगे।“ - (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक 18.6.05, पृ.1)

"Understand each and every point nicely. If you don't understand any point then you can ask. Make a note that these points have to be asked to Baba. Main matter is regarding remembrance of Father. As for the rest of the doubts etc. they will be clarified." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.6.05 page 1 published by BKs)

n the above Murli Baba is telling that if there is any doubt regarding knowledge then it should be put before Baba. Brahma Baba left his body in 1969. And as regards the role being played through Gulzar Dadi, ever since its beginning nobody is given an opportunity to ask any question. Then, if we children have any doubt regarding knowledge, whom should we ask? Where is the corporeal role of ShivBaba going on, from where we can get solutions to our doubts?

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by mbbhat » 12 Aug 2012

You may ask. but -there is no need .

SM 31-1-73(3):- Tumko poochne ki kya darkaar hai? Pahle mehnat kar apna pad to praapt kar lo. Laayak to bano. Phir poochnaa. Drama may koyi na koyi kayda hoga.

= what is there need for you to ask? First put effort and attainstatus. Become worthy. in drama etherw will be some plan/rules.

SM 2-1-75(3):- Baap aakar tum bachchon ko aape hee padhaate hain. Tumko kuch prashn poochne ki darkaar nahin. Chakr smruti may rahna chahiye.

= Baba comes and teaches himself to the children. there is no need to ask any questions. there should be the knowledge of disc in the remembrance.

SM 14-8-81(2):- Ab Baap ki srimat milti hai. Ismey aashirvaad va raham aadi kuch bhi maangnaa nahin hain. SIRF BAAP KO Yaad KARNA HAI. AUR KOYI BAATH POOCHNE KI DARKAAR NAHIN HAI. Srushti ka chakr kaise phirta hai, yah to suna. Ismey khitpit ki

= there is need to remember Father. there is no need to ask anything else.
---------
Please do not take anything personally and get hurt.

i am not saying that one should not ask. you can be carefree.

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by arjun » 12 Aug 2012

mbbhat Bhai,
The Murli points that you have quoted also exist. I know. But those Murli points are applicable only when the Father is present in practical to give knowledge continuously. In that case we need not ask questions because He gives the answers to all the questions. But in BKWSU no question related to knowledge (especially the four main pictures) arising in the minds of BKs have been answered by Avyakt BapDada from 1969 till date. Nor is anyone allowed to ask.

Moreover Baba has said that He will keep narrating new points daily. When BKs believe that Shiv has gone back to the Supreme Abode, how can they get replies from Baba?

"Koi bhi baat may moonjhtey ho toh ananya bachhon say pooch saktey ho. Nahee toh yah Brahma Baba baitha hai. Yah nahee bataa saktaa toh badaa Baba (ShivBaba) baitha hai. Yah toh samjhaya hai ki abhi bahut kuch samajhney ka baaki hai. Saarey chakra ka raaz Baba samjhaatey rahtey hain. Kitnee points nikaltee rahtee hain. Ajun time padaa hai toh jaroor aur bhi samjhaana hoga. Parantu pehley mool baat yah jaroor likhaanaa hai, ekdam blood say likhvana hai ki hamko nishchay hai ki barobar Parampita Parmatma padhaatey hain.." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 19.01.07, pg 4)

If you get confused in any matter you can ask ananya (senior/unique/dear) children. Otherwise, this Brahma Baba is sitting. If he cannot explain, then the senior Baba (ShivBaba) is sitting. It has been explained that a lot of things remain to be understood. Baba keeps explaining the secrets of the entire cycle. So many points keep emerging. When there is still some more time, then certainly there is something more to be explained. But first of all the main thing that one should be made to write and that too with blood that we have the faith that certainly it is the Supreme Father Supreme Soul who is teaching” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 19.01.07, pg.4 published by BKs)
- Baba is telling that if the children get confused in any matter they can ask Brahma Baba or the Senior Baba. No BK can ask any kind of question to Avyakt BapDada who has been coming in the body of Gulzar Dadiji since 1969. Then, where is Brahma Baba and the Senior Baba, whom one could ask questions?
- Baba is telling that a lot of things remain to be understood. In the Avyakt Vanis being narrated through Gulzar Dadiji since 1969, there is no mention of any new points related to the World Cycle. Then where are the newer points being narrated from 1969 to the end of the Confluence Age?

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by mbbhat » 12 Aug 2012

But those Murli points are applicable only when the Father is present in practical to give knowledge continuously.
This is assumption of PBKs. OK- let us agree. But how to know where the Father is present? In BKWSU, there Avyakt Baapdaada comes around 10 times a year. In case, need arises, they send sandesh/message.

How to believe that Father is present in AIVV? That too- when the Chariot is not able to explain the things properly? Many querries have remain unanswered or the answer give are not satisfactory. You may refer to the members written here.

At least BKWSU is independent of any other group. But AIVV is dependent on BKWSU.
But in BKWSU no question related to knowledge (especially the four main pictures) arising in the minds of BKs have been answered by Avyakt BapDada from 1969 till date. Nor is anyone allowed to ask.
Baba says- first do Yoga. do you believe BKs who have questions in mind have done Yoga properly?

You may mention the Avyakt Murli point. Let me try on that. but main importance is given on dharna and Yoga and service.
Moreover Baba has said that He will keep narrating new points daily. When BKs believe that Shiv has gone back to the Supreme Abode, how can they get replies from Baba?
Bk do not believe so. This is false assumption by you. BKs believe both ShivBaba and Brahma Baba come in Dadi. And even if it is just brahma Baba, i have no problem. Because he is a complete soul for BKs.
where are the newer points being narrated from 1969 to the end of the Confluence Age?
there are. what is the aim of knowledge? to become pure. so- Baba will give according to the childrern's level of purity, is it not? Esle how can more knowledge sit there?

Questions like when Krishna will get birth, when destruction will begin- these need not understand. When it should happen, it will happen.

except such questions, what new knowledge has come in AIVV from past 10 years- can you give a summary?
what I mean is- any new point that comes should be applicable either in self empowerment (swa unnati) or in the world service.-

In other words- any gyaan that comes out of the Chariot, more than 50% of them should aid Yoga, dharna and service. Else- that gyaan is not gyaan. It is just information.

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by arjun » 12 Aug 2012

In BKWSU, there Avyakt Baapdaada comes around 10 times a year. In case, need arises, they send sandesh/message.
Avyakt BapDada comes on being called on pre-determined dates, whereas ShivBaba says that He comes on His own. The timing of His arrival or departure cannot be calculated by anyone. So, its not God but a human soul (Dada Lekhraj) who comes in Dadi Gulzar.

Sandesh or message is not the correct way of receiving knowledge or directions as per Murlis.
How to believe that Father is present in AIVV? That too- when the Chariot is not able to explain the things properly? Many querries have remain unanswered or the answer give are not satisfactory. You may refer to the members written here.
Nobody is forcing you to believe. It is not the Chariot who explains. It is ShivBaba who explains. Only His real children will understand. Vidharmis will keep on opposing till the end.

Here, in AIVV, ShivBaba is at least trying to answer each and every query. What about Avyakt BapDada or the senior Dadis. They neither answer nor is anyone allowed to question. So, please keep your own house in order before pointing fingers at others.
At least BKWSU is independent of any other group. But AIVV is dependent on BKWSU.
BKWSU is not at all independent. Even after 70 years of its establishment it has continued with the same Bhakti traditions. In fact Bhakti has increased steeply after Brahma Baba's demise. Ask any staunch Hindu and he will tell you that BK path is no different from Bhakti. Whereas AIVV does not propagate Bhakti in any form.
Baba says- first do Yoga. do you believe BKs who have questions in mind have done Yoga properly?
If you have so much faith in Yoga, then why do you give such long lectures full of anger and ego and argue with us day and night? Your irrelevant arguements only show that you are not confident about truth being on your side.
BK do not believe so. This is false assumption by you. BKs believe both ShivBaba and Brahma Baba come in Dadi. And even if it is just Brahma Baba, i have no problem. Because he is a complete soul for BKs.
This issue has been discussed several times. You are free to imagine whether ShivBaba or Brahma Baba or both come in Gulzar Dadi. Anyway, I don't think Avyakt Vanis are of any use to you as you think yourself to be smarter than ShivBaba.
except such questions, what new knowledge has come in AIVV from past 10 years- can you give a summary?
If there was nothing new being narrated in AIVV you would not be wasting so much of time arguing with us on internet since so many years.

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by mbbhat » 13 Aug 2012

Good

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by mbbhat » 20 Aug 2012

SM 8-3-81(2):- Gurnaanak ko 500 varsh huye. Karke unkey 12, 14 janm honge. Yah hisaab nikaalaa jaataa hai. Christian NE 2000 VARSH MAY ADHIK SE ADHIK 60 PUNARJANM LIYE HONGE. – [Mistakes]
.
= ... In 2000 yrs, Christians would have taken 60 rebirths.

Usually Baba says- 30 to 35 rebirths.
I think here- it may be typing error.

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by mbbhat » 28 Nov 2012

How many children in Golden Age or heaven?

In almost every Murli, baba says- in Golden Age, there would be one male child and one female child. But, here- it is given, in some cases, it can be even three.

SM 25-9-76(1, 2):- Achchaa, 9 laakh manusy, vahaan ek2 ko ek bachchaa, ek bachchee hoti hai toh 1250 varsh may hisaab nikaal saktey ho ki kitney manushy hone chaahiye. Satyug may ek bachchaa, ek bachchee ho toh phir tretaa may itney ho jaavenge. Phir aate hain vaam maarg may. Aisey naheen ki usee samay koyi 5-6 bachche paidaa karte hain yaa pet cheer_kar bachche nikaalte hain. Yah pet cheerney ka toh abhee fashion padaa hai. Hubahoo jaise bichchoo 100 paidaa karti hai, aur khud mar jaati hai. Yah marte naheen kyonki doctor log bachche ko nikaalte hain. Toh yah bhee jaise bichchoo aur bichchunee huyi. Yah abhee fashion padaa hai. Satyug may itney bachche hote hee naheen. KARKE MUSHKIL SE KOYI KE THEEN (3) HO. Peeche aahishthey2 bachche jaasti ho jaate hain. Bharatvaasi apney dharm ko na jaan_ney kaaran hisaab toh kar naheen saktey. 33 KAROD BHAARATVAASI Hindu SAMPRADAAY DIKHAATE HAIN. Toh aur dharmvaley zaroor unsey kum/kam honey chaahiye. Kyonki yah hai praacheen dharm. -36-, 37 [population, CP]

= ... In Golden Age, there would not be so many children. in rare case, some will have three. Later it gets increased. since indians do not know their religion, they cannot do calculations. they show 33 crore Hindu sampraday of Indians. Then the population of other religion should be lesser than that. Because this is the oldest religion.
--------
So- where will the calculations of either BK or PBK be right?

Also- why does Baba say- Indian show 33 crore Hindu sampradaay? Actually, they do not show. They show 33 crores as deities at heaven above (in indralok, and above) and not in the earth in India.

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by arjun » 29 Nov 2012

So- where will the calculations of either BK or PBK be right?
Please don't discuss the same topic at two places. I have requested you in the past. Please grow up brother.
Also- why does Baba say- Indian show 33 crore Hindu sampradaay? Actually, they do not show. They show 33 crores as deities at heaven above (in indralok, and above) and not in the earth in India.
The memorials pertain to this world and not any heaven above. The 33 crore deities that are famous did not exist actually in the Golden Age or the Silver Age. The maximum population of deities by the end of Silver Age is only 10 crores. The rest of the souls belonging to the ancient deity religion keep on descending till the end of the Iron Age. They can be recognized only on the basis of their sanskars.

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Nov 2012

arjun wrote:The 33 crore deities that are famous did not exist actually in the Golden Age or the Silver Age. The maximum population of deities by the end of Silver Age is only 10 crores. The rest of the souls belonging to the ancient deity religion keep on descending till the end of the Iron Age. They can be recognized only on the basis of their sanskars.
A crore is 10,000,000 (10 million), therefore;

10 crore is 100,000,000 (100 million)

not the 330,000,000 (330 million) the BKWSU pulled out of the Bhakti hat.

Two and a half questions,
  • a) can you clarify what the recognizable characteristics of "the ancient deity religion" are in terms of how they can be recognized in soul being incarnated today and where are they incarnated? Are you saying some BKs will only take their first incarnation in the Copper or Iron Age?

    b) has anyone done the mathematics to work out how the generations will expand from 900,000 to 10,000,000 in 21 births.
Mbbatt ... have you done the mathematics to work out how the generations will expand from 900,000 to 330,000 according to the BKWSU teachings (especially if the first 8 births only have two children each)? Can you show us how they work?

If India's population is 1,000,000 +, and most are Hindus, who are Hindus in relationship to the Adi Sanatam Dharma souls?

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by mbbhat » 29 Nov 2012

Dear FB soul,

You are not able to understand the question itself. so- sorry dear soul

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by mbbhat » 29 Nov 2012

Please don't discuss the same topic at two places. I have requested you in the past. Please grow up Brother.
Here , the question was general, and different, there the question was to PBKs and different than this.

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by arjun » 29 Nov 2012

fluffy-bunny wrote:a) can you clarify what the recognizable characteristics of "the ancient deity religion" are in terms of how they can be recognized in soul being incarnated today and where are they incarnated? Are you saying some BKs will only take their first incarnation in the Copper or Iron Age?
1. Purity which leads to unity (example joint families)
2. Tolerance.

BKs will definitely come in heaven (either Golden Age or Silver Age) but the time of their incarnation may differ based on the efforts made by them.
b) has anyone done the mathematics to work out how the generations will expand from 900,000 to 10,000,000 in 21 births.
I haven't done so far. But if I get time I would love to. Perhaps my weakness in mathematics has discouraged me in that direction. :D

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Nov 2012

mbbhat wrote:Dear FB soul,

You are not able to understand the question itself. so- sorry dear soul
As a BK you are meant to be above insulting people and twisting people's minds. It's really not divine behavior.

There is nothing complex or difficult to understand about the BKs' theories. They are at a child's level of understand (aka a fairy story), they have no evidence to support them and they are impossible to explain logically.

Therefore, if one truly understands them, one cannot accept them because to understand them fully is see all their inconsistencies.

Once one has seen all the inconsistencies, one is either faced with having to reject them as false and untrue, as per ex-BKs, or try and find a deeper, more metaphorical meaning, as per PBKs and beyond. Watching a BK try and give class to PBKs or ex-BKs is a bit like watching a primary school kid teach post-graduates.


OK, mbbhat ... show us the mathematics. How do 900,000 become 330,000,000 in 21 births when the first 8 only replace themselves (2 adults become 2 children).

Say there is a little staggering of births because not all deities have their children on the same day ... from them one might estimate, how does 1,000,000 become 330,000,000 in 1250 years and 13 births?

Please explain how either lokikly or alokikly.

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Re: Lie/Errors in Murlis OR Is it way of teaching of....

Post by mbbhat » 29 Nov 2012

OK, mbbhat ... show us the mathematics. How do 900,000 become 330,000,000 in 21 births when the first 8 only replace themselves (2 adults become 2 children).
It is once again highly unfortunate that this soul does not understand the purpose of this topic.

This topic is lies/errors in Murlis- means I do not have explanation for those.

Now, questions here are to all-

- to BKs, - hey bk, do not be so egoistic in giving knowledge and [do not waste your time in debating like what mbbhat had done or doing if you really believe in Murli]

-- to PBKs - hey pbk, you also do not have answers , and hence do not boast that you have god Father with you practically.

--- And to some ex BKs - who feel that- "they are words of DL and not of God"- Because a human being will not speak so differently. And, even if it is BKWSU that changes the Murli points by editing, such errors cannot appear. [How can once it is said 2 children and once 3? How can once the population is said as 2 crores, sometimes 10 crores, sometimes 33 crores? still all these continue to appear in Murlis even now? i feel such errors/ambigutiy are not due to editing of BKWSU authority. ]

So- just Murli points even with clear words and mathematics will not help in imbibing Murli. It needs pure intellect.

Or, they are totally waste. Not worth to be discussed at all. So- if a person's wish is not to become pure, does not feels Murli points can help in purifying, then any discussion with Murli points are waste. No one can win.

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