Prajapati God Brahma

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by Roy » 16 Jan 2013

Prajapati God Brahma...
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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by arjun » 18 Jan 2013

Thanks for posting the above photograph Roy Bhai. It proves how Dada Lekrhaj considered himself to be the God of Gita, i.e. Krishna.

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by Roy » 18 Jan 2013

arjun wrote:Thanks for posting the above photograph Roy Bhai. It proves how Dada Lekrhaj considered himself to be the God of Gita, i.e. Krishna.
Indeed Bhai!... it's a fascinating drama... much more interesting and "real" than the fairytale Adi Dev wanted us to believe.

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by shivsena » 20 Jan 2013

arjun wrote:Thanks for posting the above photograph Roy Bhai. It proves how Dada Lekrhaj considered himself to be the God of Gita, i.e. Krishna.
If Lekhraj Kirpalani-Krishna did the shooting of proclaiming himself as God of Gita, then what is the time period during which he claimed this ??

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by Roy » 20 Jan 2013

shivsena wrote:If Lekhraj Kirpalani-Krishna did the shooting of proclaiming himself as God of Gita, then what is the time period during which he claimed this ??
I believe this occured between 1936/7 and 1947, but for how long i am not sure. Once Father Shiv entered him in Karachi, i believe this would have tailed off, as it became more clear to him, that another entity was working through him. However, he hasn't to this day been able to let go of the belief that he is the one God continues to speak through(now through his subtle form), and thus continues to consider himself the God of the Gita in corporeal form. It is only when he finally comes to accept unequivocally, that Shiv Shankar Bholenath is the corporeal God of the Gita; that he can become complete(Brahma so Vishnu).

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by shivsena » 21 Jan 2013

Roy wrote: I believe this occured between 1936/7 and 1947, but for how long i am not sure.
In Bhakti, Krishna is known as God of Gita only during copper and iron ages and according to Adv-Gyan, the shooting period of copper and iron ages starts from 1989-90 (when the adv-Gyan of –Virendra Dev Dixit- comes in full force)...DLR was present during the shooting period of golden-silver ages and not present during the shooting period of copper and iron ages….so how come –Lekhraj Kirpalani- is doing the shooting of Krishna ki Gita??....i feel that it is –Virendra Dev Dixit-(Krishna) who is doing the shooting of jhooti Krishna ki Gita in the form of adv-Gyan and proclaiming himself as GOD.

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by mbbhat » 21 Jan 2013

arjun wrote:Thanks for posting the above photograph Roy Bhai. It proves how Dada Lekrhaj considered himself to be the God of Gita, i.e. Krishna.
Interesting:- How does it prove that DL considered himself to be god? [Just when someone writes his views about someone and publishes it? ] They are just comments of others.

Of course, he believed that he is Krishna.

Did He ever declared that I am god? Is there any proof of that? Of course, the BKs during that time might have believed so due to ignorance.

And, if he had thought himself as God, how does pbk philosophy of saying- he got clarified his visions from Sevakram? why if he really felt himself as god, needs clarification from someone else? Or then do PBKs say- DL knew that he was not god of Gita, but he did this knowingly?


But, there is a strong possibility that PBKs are doing this wrong shooting. It is PBKs who feel/believe that Krishna/DL really considered himself as God of Gita . It is fully proved by words of PBKs in their own words, is it not?

So- can there be a great role of PBKs in Bhaktimarg to project "Krishna as God of Gita " and cause downfall of India? Because , here in Confluence Age, it is PBKs who are keeping on repeating this and feel the same, even though no Bk after 1955 (approximately) says that god of Gita is either DL or Krishna. Really a great wonderful point to be thought.
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In Bhakti, Krishna is known as God of Gita only during copper and iron ages and according to Adv-Gyan, the shooting period of copper and iron ages starts from 1989-90 (when the adv-Gyan of –Virendra Dev Dixit- comes in full force)...DLR was present during the shooting period of golden-silver ages and not present during the shooting period of copper and iron ages….so how come –Lekhraj Kirpalani- is doing the shooting of Krishna ki Gita??....i feel that it is –Virendra Dev Dixit-(Krishna) who is doing the shooting of jhooti Krishna ki Gita in the form of adv-Gyan and proclaiming himself as GOD
Good argument. I would like to add something.

So- if according to PBKs , DL considered himself as God of Gita during golden and Silver Age of unlimited drama (Conf. age), then how come in golden and Silver Age (of 5000 yrs drama), there is no question of saying God of Gita as Krishna? So- does not imply that their theory of shooting and shooting and ... do not fit properly?

Hence- PBKs usually fail more than in their success. When they try to prove something, they lose even more.

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jan 2013

mbbhat wrote:Interesting:- how can it prove that DL considered himself to be god? [Just when someone writes his views about someone and publishes it? ] They are just comments of others.
FALSE.

All the original documents produced by the Om Mandli/BKs prior to 1950 clearly state Lekhraj Kirpalani is the "sermoniser of the Gita", Prajapati God Brahma, The Creator and so on. Elsewhere, the BKs clearly state that Lekhraj Kirpalani checked this posters/document and made corrections to them.

If I have the time, I will check to see if he called himself Supreme Soul too ... but I do remember that until after 1950, there was no mention of a Supreme Soul, only Infinite Divine Light, e.g. Brahm.

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Post by mbbhat » 21 Jan 2013

arjun wrote:Dear John Bhai,
1)Om Shanti. I don't have any concrete proof about Dada Lekhraj considering himself to be God, but the actions of the present Administrators of the BK Institution does cast some doubt over their intentions to either reveal the Supreme Soul Shiv as God or Dada Lekhraj Brahma as God.

2)I have heard from my friends living in Delhi that BKs are organizing a ten-day long World Peace Festival at a prime location of the Indian Capital. The BKs have put up hundreds of hoardings of various sizes throughout Delhi. But none of them contains the picture of either Trimurti Shiv or Brahma Baba. All the hoardings and boards depict the three Dadis prominently. Dadi Prakashmani's portrait being in the front, Dadi Janaki behind her and Dadi Gulzar's portrait in the last. The size of the portraits also decrease in the same order.

Such posters create a doubt in the minds of the general public about the faith of BKs. They cannot know whom the BKs consider as the God Father or his corporeal medium. Until recently they used to reveal the photographs of Late Dada Lekhraj (Brahma Baba) which at least gave an impression that he is the founder of the Institution. But the picture of the Trimurti Dadis does not convey anything. In fact it leads people to speculate if they are revealing themselves as Trimurti, i.e. Brahma, Vishnu and Shankar.

3)There are hundreds of Murlis which say that in every programme of service or service material, the word Trimurti Shiv should be invariably be included. All the focus should be on the picture of Trimurti, which shows the three divine acts of God. On the one side BKs say that the end of the world is nearing and on the other side instead of revealing Trimurti God Shiv, they are revealing only the Dadis.

And even if they wish to reveal the Dadis, it should be only Gulzar Dadiji because she is at least the medium through which the Avyakt Vanis are delivered. Who narrates the Avyakt Vanis is another issue. But if the BKs believe that God Shiv is narrating the AVs through Dadi Gulzar then they should give more prominence to her. Just as they used to or may be still reveal Brahma Baba as the corporeal medium of God Shiv, they should try to tell the world that God is playing His part through Dadi Gulzar. But relegating her to the background creates more confusion. When they don't want to reveal Gulzar Dadi as the medium of God then what is the rationale behind giving more publicity to the other two Dadis who are not even the chariots of Shiv?

4)Moreover, there are numerous Murlis which state that keeping of Brahma's photo is against Shrimat. Then is it in accordance with Shrimat to reveal the pictures of the three Dadis?

5)Could any BK kindly clarify?
1)There is no confusion or doubt. BKs clearly say god of Gita is incoroporeal shiv through corporeal medium of Brahma Baba.

2) In service programmes, they may be highlighting of those personaitlites who are living at present- just as an advertisement, because it is Dadis who are going to be present in stage programmes. Picture of Trimurti Dadis convey that the present main roles are played by these three Dadis.

All these Dadis travel a lot over the country and the world in doing service.

Of course, in exhibition pictures, where knowledge is given, there would be no picture of Dadis.



3) Because the seat of others is ahead of Gulzar Dadi. the question of media of god (Prajapita) is still DL and not Gulzar Dadi. So- Gulzar Dadi has no importance (for new comers) when knowledge is being delivered.

And, for service activities - the other two Dadis are ahead.

4) the Murli point means- one should not get attached to Brahma Baba. Hence it is said so. But, for service activities, his photo can be used.

And, we all know that just 108 souls in BKWSU will win, so others are likely to get attached, so no surprise in it.

Did above. But, Is it not really surprising that- PBKs who call themselves as higher intellect people, who have ability to absorb deep meanings from Murli points, are not able to understand such simple things?

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by mbbhat » 21 Jan 2013

fluffy bunny wrote: FALSE.

All the original documents produced by the Om Mandli/BKs prior to 1950 clearly state Lekhraj Kirpalani is the "sermoniser of the Gita", Prajapati God Brahma, The Creator and so on. Elsewhere, the BKs clearly state that Lekhraj Kirpalani checked this posters/document and made corrections to them.

If I have the time, I will check to see if he called himself Supreme Soul too ... but I do remember that until after 1950, there was no mention of a Supreme Soul, only Infinite Divine Light, e.g. Brahm.
BKs might have been incorrect. That is- they might have felt so due to visions they have experienced. But, it does not imply that DL himself had believed or felt so.

So- to find truth, one needs to go deeper, not just believe what is written on papers that too by others.

Of course, if DL himself had written his autobiography (or some statements by himself), and in it if he had written so, then it will have real value.

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jan 2013

Have you read any of the old documents produced and signed by the Om Mandli ?

I was just reading the big poster 'Divine Decree' where he writes in first person, "I, that selfsame Viceless Deity Kalgidhar SREE Krishna of Vaikunth or BRAHM-PURI have now incarnated ..." etc etc etc. They quote him directly and he calls himself the Ocean of Unfathomable Supreme Wisdom.

Are you suggesting that the posters and book would have been produced and sent out to royalty etc without him knowing or checking?

In one biography Nirwair talks about him checking the poster and correcting them.

I guess all his old notebooks, letter and materials were buried when they reinvented the religion to introduce Shiva after 1950. They did not want the old stuff because it was an embarrassment.

Of course, there is a deeper truth to this, all the stories of the BKs being innocent victims because of their "purity" are false. People reacted because he was insulting them and making ridiculous claims.

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by Roy » 21 Jan 2013

shivsena wrote:In Bhakti, Krishna is known as God of Gita only during copper and iron ages and according to Adv-Gyan, the shooting period of copper and iron ages starts from 1989-90 (when the adv-Gyan of –Virendra Dev Dixit- comes in full force)...DLR was present during the shooting period of golden-silver ages and not present during the shooting period of copper and iron ages….so how come –Lekhraj Kirpalani- is doing the shooting of Krishna ki Gita??....i feel that it is –Virendra Dev Dixit-(Krishna) who is doing the shooting of jhooti Krishna ki Gita in the form of adv-Gyan and proclaiming himself as GOD.
The shooting periods are not quite as simple and straightforward as you perceive them Shivsena Bhai; for example, the foundation shootings of the Copper, Iron, Golden, and then Silver Ages, are shot between 1969, and 1982/3. There are shootings within shootings, and overlapping shootings too, it appears. I haven't fully understood the first ten years shooting period, between 1936/7 and 1947, and need to give this more thought. But if Dada Lekhraj was dressing up as Krishna, and allowing himself to be depicted in posters and other literature, as Prajapati God Brahma, who he obviously believed he was; then this must surely be the shooting of Krishna being the God of the Gita.

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by Roy » 21 Jan 2013

mbbhat wrote:But, there is a strong possibility that PBKs are doing this wrong shooting. It is PBKs who feel/believe that Krishna/DL really considered himself as God of Gita . It is fully proved by words of PBKs in their own words, is it not? So- can there be a great role of PBKs in Bhaktimarg to project "Krishna as God of Gita " and cause downfall of India? Because , here in Confluence Age, it is PBKs who are keeping on repeating this and feel the same, even though no Bk after 1955 (approximately) says that god of Gita is either DL or Krishna. Really a great wonderful point to be thought
It made me smile that you think the PBKs are doing the shooting of pulling India down, by claiming that Brahma Baba Krishna and his worshippers, believe him to be the God of the Gita. PBKs are trying to expose the reality of what is going on in the Confluence Age, not promote the belief in this. If it is in the hearts and minds of Brahma Baba and his worshippers, that he is the God of the Gita, then the shooting is being done; there is no need for this to be verbalised. It is a well known fact that human beings go around saying one thing, but reveal their true selves through their actions. If you don't consider huge pictures of Brahma Baba as worshipping their God, then i don't know what is. This is the BKs' corporeal God Krishna; there is no doubt about that.
mbbhat wrote:So- if according to PBKs , DL considered himself as God of Gita during golden and Silver Age of unlimited drama (Conf. age), then how come in golden and Silver Age (of 5000 yrs drama), there is no question of saying God of Gita as Krishna? So- does not imply that their theory of shooting and shooting and ... do not fit properly?
As i mentioned in reference to Shivsena Bhai's post, there are shootings within shootings... just because this was the overall shooting period of the Golden Age, doesn't mean other shootings were not taking place within it. ShivBaba points this out in the clarification Murlis, if you are alert to it.

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by Roy » 21 Jan 2013

mbbhat wrote:the Murli point means- one should not get attached to Brahma Baba. Hence it is said so. But, for service activities, his photo can be used.
Hmm... this argument sounds a little thin to me!

“Brahma’s picture is already there in Trimurti for understanding. There is no need to see him separately. There is nothing to have from this Brahma(Baba). There is no necessity to keep his picture.” [Mu 27.02.75]

“When the children ask for the photo of Baba, then Baba understands that they are completely ignorant. Arey, ShivBaba asks you to remember only Him. Then what will you do with this picture? The traditions of Bhaktimarg (path of worship) cannot continue in the gyanmarg (path of knowledge). Never ask for a photo.” [Mu 04.11.79]

"There is no need to keep photos of Brahma(Baba)." [Mu 08.02.69]

“If you remember this Brahma(Baba), then you will become sinful.” [Mu 28.01.84]

"Always think that it is ShivBaba who is speaking. Do not keep even his(Brahma Baba's) photo. This Chariot has been taken on loan (temporarily). He is also an effort-maker. He also says, 'I am obtaining the inheritance from Baba'." [Mu 21.07.05]

"You shouldn’t keep any other images. People on the path of devotion keep many images. There should be only one image on the path of knowledge, you have that knowledge in your intellect. How can there be an image of a point? The soul is like a star. This too is a matter to be understood." [Mu 14.01.99]

“(You) will not receive anything by the remembrance of Brahma(Baba) or Christ.” [Mu 02.11.01]

"A great number of pictures have been prepared on the basis of demonic opinion." [Mu 7.05.74]

"Baba has hardly given any direction for the exhibition of pictures. This is Ramesh Bachha's invention." [Mu 13.06.72]

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Re: Prajapati God Brahma

Post by fluffy bunny » 21 Jan 2013

From a BK point of view, I am really going to love seeing mbbhat's response to all those quotes ...


Interesting, I've never seen the Ramesh quote before. I don't want to give bhatti boy any cause for distraction ... but, from a PBK point of view, if we correlated the 'Ramesh quote' with the 'demonic quote', is there a connection? It was Ramesh who founded the trust on 16th January after which hearing of the next day and a bit later, Lekhraj Kirpalani died.

I know the BKs will say that the "demons" are non-BKs in the Hindu community, so I am not interested in that definition. If for the Advance Knowledge, everything in about people and events within the Yugya, then I'd like to know that opinion. And, who is Christ?
“When the children ask for the photo of Baba, then Baba understands that they are completely ignorant ... Never ask for a photo.” [Mu 04.11.79]
That's Dadi Janki then because just a few years later, and at the same time, she was exporting Lekhraj Kirpalani's picture all over the West spreading ignorance and Bhakti amongst BKs which has not reach endemic proportions.

(*I am sorry, Shivsena, I don't know enough AK to understand your point).

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