Sevakram name in PBK literature

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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Roy
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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Roy » 25 Jan 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:By comparison, the AIVV is just a cornershop run by amateurs with no funding.
Great metaphor fluffy Bhai! :D

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by arjun » 25 Jan 2013

So- if the above word is said by Brahma Baba, did it take so much time for PBKs to realize this? and, if BBaba is still misusing body/mouth of dixit, then how can PBKs get right knowledge? Is this (mixture) what they have got even after getting ADVANCED knowledge?

And, if that word is used by childish intellect Brahma Baba, why does he use it just once a year? Since the intellect is childish, he should have done it more number of times, is it not?
One child defending another soul with a child like intellect just to defame others. Nothing worth replying. Please continue.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by mbbhat » 25 Jan 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:And how long with it take to unpick the BK lies from all the minds they have filled with them?
All the things what you have listed are relative truths and have no real value in the spiritual knowledge at all. But, for PBKs such things are part of their absolute truth/s. So- I think ball lies in the court of PBKs much more than BKs.
By comparison, the AIVV is just a cornershop run by amateurs with no funding*.
Good to know your comparision. So- your method of search for truth depends on funding and not what each one says/claims. PBKs claim that they have god Father with them in corporeal and he is interested in such discussions and physical figures and facts like you.

So- if you feel funding has some relation with the truth, then better see all organizations that have higher level of funding and find faults there or search for truth there, is it not? this shows your level of understanding.
everytime after you have made an insulted someone makes you look like a real dickhead. Good.
* The above reply from you also makes you look like the same, is it not? Good and thank you.
Roy wrote:- Great metaphor fluffy Bhai!
This shows how the so called gyaani tu atmas become happy to justify themselves when they do not know truth or have failed in it even while claiming that god is with them at present and he is ready to discuss and discuss and discuss with children.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 25 Jan 2013

I wouldn't expect words of sorry from AIVV. The Teacher speaks about himself "Baba is always right". When students speak about their doubts, the answer is "Remember Baba, Baba is always right."

The story of Sevakram in PBKs teaching looks like this (according to Murlis clarification):

1. First the name Sevakram appears, and he is presented as a business partner of Dada. Sevakram is said to be Prajapita - the one who explains the meaning of Dada's visions.

2. Next, the same Sevakram (Dada's partner and the manager of Dada's jewellery shop in Calcutta) is presented as Prajapita who was present in the beginning of the Yagya and who was the main person of the beginning and who gave classes to students of the Yagya in Karachi at the very beginning.

3. The same Sevakram is said to be the husband of Dada's elder sister.

4. The same Sevakram and his wife are said to be the 'parents' of Nirmalshanta Dadi. They were said to adopt her and bring her up. (Nirmalshanta Dadi in her biography wrote about Dada's elder sister who with her husband temporarily took care of her, because they did not have their own child. Nirmalshanta Dadi wrote about Dada's sister and her husband, and a third person whose name was Sevakram - a business partner of Dada. The list of Om Mandali members and some other documents from Calcutta show that Dada's sister wansn't the wife of Sevakram, but someone else - Kismatram Hathiramani, a merchant doing business with Japan.

5. The same Sevakram-Prajapita was said to be a member of the AntiParty. This declaration was made by the Teacher in AIVV after the book written by Om Radhe was published in the forum, and students asked Baba about Sevakram - the secretary of Anti Om Mandali.

6. The same Sevakram was said to have two wives at the same time in Calcutta. Both of them, together with Sevakram were supposed to be the main teachers of the Yagya in Karachi.

7. Some time ago the book of Anti Om Mandali's respond to the Om Radhe's book appeared. It shows new information about Sevakram and acc to them Sevakram left long before the Yagya in Karachi.

I can see lots of contradictions in the above mentioned theory.

None of them was explained by AIVV. Lots of questions about the issues above were never answered to. They just left them. AIVV theory was supported by "Baba is always right." or "Angry foreigners defame the Father".

They have never till today said that they misinformed, misled people or that they might have made mistakes.

The AIVV literature which mentioned Sevakram name as the name of Prajapita-Dada's business partner-teacher in Karachi:

1. The Trimurti Advance Course.
2. Sakar Murli edition I volume - at the end the page from comic book publish by BK. That comic book was called "proof" for the Trimurti Advance Course.
3. Video records of Murli clarifications dedicated to the Trimurti together with translations in a written form.
4. Video record of discussions.


This is only about the case of Sevakram. But the Sevakram - Prajapita is the pillar of the whole teaching.

There are much more topics which AIVV presented in a similarly confusing way full of contradictions.

If someone likes to see, hear and understand the way AIVV conducts discussions and how they give explanations, please watch and listen to one of classes translated in English or watch discussions with foreign students. You will understand the "way" of AIVV teacher - how he speaks, answers, explains. He changes the meaning of words according to what a situation needs. He easily made Prajapita-Sevakram to be a member of the Antiparty when students asked him to clarify that point from the Om Radhe's book. In one second the main teacher of the Yagya in Karachi, the pillar of the entire Gyan became a member of the Anti Parti, their secretary. And no one from students present in that class raised a question - they just accepted the explanation as the final truth.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Roy » 25 Jan 2013

mbbhat wrote:This shows how the so called gyaani tu atmas become happy to justify themselves when they do not know truth or have failed in it even while claiming that god is with them at present and he is ready to discuss and discuss and discuss with children.
My comment was simply acknowledging fluffy Bhai's metaphor... i found it quite amusing! I wasn't trying to justify anything.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Jan 2013

mbbhat wrote:So- your method of search for truth depends on funding and not what each one says/claims.
No, my concern over the amount of harm an organization does depend on the scale of harm the organization does.

In the case of the BKs, it is 10s of 1,000s of innocent non-BKs.

In the case of the PBKs, it is 10s of people who have already been through the BKWSU and have seen and experienced it.

Therefore, the scale of abuse or inaccuracy ... if any ... of the PBKs is tiny in comparison to the BKWSU.

No big deal.

The PBKs have a splinter in their eye and are trying to find it to remove it ... the BKs are hammering logs into people's eyes to they are blinded.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 25 Jan 2013

fb, there is another side of harm. The scale of harm and the weight of burden increases as the depth of knowledge increases. AIVV teach that the burden of sins in AIVV is much greater than in BKIVV, becasue the Gyan is the highest and accurate. BKIVV are like children, AIVV are adults. Who does more harm - a child or an adult? Who carries more responsibility - a child or an adult? 10 kids don't do as much harm as one adult man.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by arjun » 26 Jan 2013

larena wrote:He easily made Prajapita-Sevakram to be a member of the Antiparty when students asked him to clarify that point from the Om Radhe's book. In one second the main teacher of the Yagya in Karachi, the pillar of the entire Gyan became a member of the Anti Parti, their secretary. And no one from students present in that class raised a question - they just accepted the explanation as the final truth.
Can you quote the Discussion CD number?
If someone likes to see, hear and understand the way AIVV conducts discussions and how they give explanations, please watch and listen to one of classes translated in English or watch discussions with foreign students. You will understand the "way" of AIVV teacher - how he speaks, answers, explains. He changes the meaning of words according to what a situation needs.
All the translations of Murli clarifications (VCDs) and Discussion classes (Disc.CDs), as circulated by AIVV are being produced on this forum since many years. Nothing is being hidden. Apart from this the Audio and Video files of all these records are being uploaded on the official site of AIVV (www.PBKs.info). We know that historical proofs are not available for all the theories being presented by AIVV, but we have not hidden any statement.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by mbbhat » 26 Jan 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:The PBKs have a splinter in their eye and are trying to find it to remove it ... the BKs are hammering logs into people's eyes to they are blinded.
The BK philosophy says/teaches to have detachment from all body and bodily relations. So- there is no question of deceiving. Because the intellect is raised to go above from this world - this teaching is given there. [Of course, if some BKs are attached to Dadis, Didis, it is their mistake as personal dharna. Most of the BKs are aware of that. Many BK students know weaknesses of their Centre-in-Charges. But, they keep mum. that is all ]

But, in AIVV, the intellect is made to trap in this world itself in body of Mr. Dixit and phyiscal figures and facts. Hence the deception is fully real.

But, i think- there is no fault from AIVV also. Because majority of PBKs had been BKs before. So- if their intellect is sharp (already got company of God once), they should not have been fallen into their trap. So- there also it becomes responsibility of the BK to check PBKs even if AIVV says full of lies. So- I keep the ball more in the court of BKs who are listening to AIVV than AIVV itself.
----
If you feel PBKs are trying to remove them, I think you are wrong. i have already given enough proof where their god Father himself failed to point them. Here also same issue with the Sevakram. Fault by god Father is a fault . Where is the question of removing then? [Is this not your double standards!- will you certify God of PBKs as real god even after knowing that he had failed during all these years]

PBKs have no other option than to check and change these. Because they are interested in discussions and discussions. Hence, they cannot ignore such things. Hence they are like caught in the trap of their own.

Good to know that you further support PBKs. You may continue this support. Let them use this support or depend on this inspite of having support of their God Father. You also may feel that you are helping (god!) of someone. So- you may be higher than god.

I had already said in the very beginning in the old forum itself that- this forum will benefit BKWSU*. more ex BKs like you do research to find faults in BKWSU, you will succeed in finding more faults in AIVV.

And, any such mistakes is like a terrible blow to AIVV, but nothing to BKWSU since for BKWSU phyiscal figures and facts do not have main role in their spiritual life, but it is exactly opposite in case of AIVV.

Good and thank you.

* - But, even this forum will not benefit BKWSU, because it is not dependent on such research of ex PBKs or failures of PBKs in its path of world service or spiritual progress. It all depends on fight with Maya and not with people.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Jan 2013

mbbhat,

Will you please help us to resolve the false history of the BKWSU? No, of course you wont ... what one earth are you trying to achieve?

Let's see some good manners, helpfulness and common decency from you this year.
mbbhat wrote:The BK philosophy says/teaches to have detachment from all body and bodily relations. So- there is no question of deceiving.
You destroy your credibility in the first statement ... the BKWSU is full of deception from its earliest history to it current publicity methods.

The BKWSU deludes hard headed followers into believing a false reality. The PBKs start said followers questioning said false reality. That's not a bad thing in my book ... but it's not the end of the road. It's one step further down the road from the BKWSU, do you want them to go back? Do you want to stop other BKs from progressing?
  • Or are you just trying to make the BKs look *less* bad by inventing and point out the faults in others!?!
At least the PBKs are sincere in trying to resolve the problems of the BKWSU and its philosophy ... even if they have made a few mistakes on the way. I think its fair to say they try to live a life more closely to the original teachings ... whilst the BKs are just becoming richer, more materialistic and more corrupt.

Why I disrespect you is that despite knowing off all the problems, you do nothing to resolve them. You just increase the burdens of others.

Although I don't believe in the PBK framework, Arjun and others are correct ... you have been given perfectly sufficient explanations and rational answers more than once. You are intelligent enough to understanding but you lack the integrity to accept them or respect others time and efforts to explain them.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by mbbhat » 26 Jan 2013

I am just playing my role in drama, sometimes with ego and sometimes without ego. If you disrespect me, it is OK to me. That may be a part of your present role in drama.

All the best in your attempts of searching and helping and resolving truth and problems.

If you think you and PBKs are putting a great effort in right path in right way, thank you and salutes to all the dear complete souls. Wonderful.

But, just my opinions are:-

Please do not have expectation or complaints. They will destroy or dilute the power of intellect.

Better - Just aim to dance in life, you will find everything what you need.

Do you feel you are child of God? If yes, then put step ahead to find real truth. Else, it would be like an illiterate person expecting directly to get entrance in Medical College. Without this internal feeling, what all we do will be waste in the path of searching for absolute/highest truth.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 26 Jan 2013

arjun wrote: Can you quote the Discussion CD number?
820.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 26 Jan 2013

mbhat, please, leave this topics and stop spoiling it with your conclusions. or stick to the topic and start contrubuting to it.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by arjun » 26 Jan 2013

larena wrote:820.
Thanks. I haven't seen this CD. I will try to get a copy. The written transcript or translation of this CD is not available so far. Perhaps it will be translated as and when the time and human resources allow.

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Re: Sevakram name in PBK literature

Post by Larena » 26 Jan 2013


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