What is Ego of Knowledge?

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Mar 2013

1)If you are remembering Father Shiv in the Soul World, you are not remembering accurately, and so all your points are going to waste.

2)So most important, is to understand the role of Father... who is Father?... until this is understood, everything is a waste." [Mu 05.04.67]
1) This is what recently I also had mentioned in another topic - that- the method of remembrance is is the main thing to be discussed. You may put your churning more and more on this. If you feel this is not right topic, you may put them somewhere else.

2) Yes, those who believe that they are gyaani tu atmas should discuss just about Father (until they recognize Father), is it not?

Usually, if any new comer does not understand Father, BKs do not do further discussions with them.

But, PBKs are ready to discussions and discussions.

So- does it imply so many discussions are waste?

Yes, so PBKs should discuss just about Father, is it not? Then why do they discuss about Vedanti Bhen, Kamala dixit, etc with others with new comers or BKs or ex BKs, etc. (until they understand Father)? All those are going to be waste, is it not? [It is OK, if PBKs discuss these with themselves for their higher levels of growth, I do not say that is wrong

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by Roy » 03 Mar 2013

mbbhat wrote: Yes, so PBKs should discuss just about Father, is it not? Then why do they discuss about Vedanti Bhen, Kamala dixit, etc with others with new comers or BKs or ex BKs, etc. (until they understand Father)? All those are going to be waste, is it not? [It is OK, if PBKs discuss these with themselves for their higher levels of growth, I do not say that is wrong
The most important thing is knowing the Father, and this doesn't mean superficially, it means knowing totally without doubt... this is why Brahma Baba has yet to become complete(Vishnu). But we also need to know about the other aspects of knowledge too, as Baba has told us that those who do not know the main actors etc. in the Confluence Age drama, are senseless.

"Despite being actors of the drama... if he doesn't know the main actors, director, creator and the beginning, middle, and end of the (Confluence Age) drama... then he is senseless." [Mu.14.08.76]

So there is a balance to these things, and knowledge and remembrance are very much interdependent on one another. Ultimately, only remembrance burns our sins, and purifies us... but without accurate knowledge, these attainments are not possible.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Mar 2013

Roy wrote:So there is a balance to these things, and knowledge and remembrance are very much interdependent on one another. Ultimately, only remembrance burns our sins, and purifies us... but without accurate knowledge, these attainments are not possible.
So- does it imply- without knowing these things, (like who is Kamala Dixit, why she left Yagya, when Vedanti Bhen will come, what is date of birth of Sevakram, what is date of birth of DL,.. blah, blah) if one remembers Shiv in body of dixit, it will not be right one?

And, if one knows this, does it imply he should remember all those actors also with ShivBaba while doing remembrance?

And- if any such prediction fails, then does it imply the past efforts of remembrance had been of actually of no use?

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by Roy » 03 Mar 2013

mbbhat wrote:Yes, the those who believe that they are gyaani tu atmas (either BKs or PBKs) should discuss just about Father (until they recognize Father), is it not?
Usually, if any new comer does not understand Father, BKs do not do further discussions with them. But, PBKs are ready to discussions and discussions on whatever they ask as well as they themselves will explain something extra. So- does it imply so many discussions are waste?
These discussions are to hopefully help others see that the truth can only come from one true Father, Ram ShivBaba, and not the body conscious gurus, known as BK Dadis. The more one recognises the truth that is coming from the Father, the more one's faith is strengthened, and this has certainly been the case with myself. This then makes remembrance more powerful. More knowledge = more faith = more powerful remembrance. Knowledge is the launch pad, and faith is the fuel for remembrance, to take us beyond the pull of our bodily attachments.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by Roy » 03 Mar 2013

mbbhat wrote:So- does it imply- without knowing these things, (like who is Kamala Dixit, why she left Yagya, when Vedanti Bhen will come, what is date of birth of Sevakram, what is date of birth of DL,.. blah, blah) if one remembers Shiv in body of dixit, it will not be right one? And, if one knows this, does it imply he should remember all those actors also with ShivBaba while doing remembrance? And- if any such prediction fails, then does it imply the past efforts of remembrance had been of actually of no use?
I don't think any sincere efforts go to waste, as they lead us closer to the truth eventually.

One can have remembrance of Father without knowing all of the knowledge, but there can only be true recognition of the Father through the knowledge he narrates. This is not about blind faith, there has to be an intellectual recognition of the truth in what the Father is narrating. The deeper the understanding of these matters, the more powerful the faith becomes in my experience. I find in need to refuel with knowledge again and again, otherwise my remembrance suffers to some extent. Baba has told us we shouldn't miss even one Murli, as we'll miss important points... so this again stresses the importance of knowledge.

Even though we should be aware of all the aspects of the Confluence Age, this doesn't mean we should stay constantly in the remembrance of all the other actors... our main focus should to be on the Father. But who is telling us about these matters, is not it the Father; so there is remembrance even in this recognition, imo.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Mar 2013

There is also a saying- Too much of Analysis leads to Paralysis

I think this applies very well to those who have ego of knowledge.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by Roy » 03 Mar 2013

mbbhat wrote:There is also a saying- Too much of analysis leads to Paralysis. I think this applies very well to those who have ego of knowledge.
I acknowledge that you have made some good points about the ego of knowledge, and i have found myself to be guilty of this at times... and therefore i am not averse to being reminded of this, and learning more about the subject.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Mar 2013

I acknowledge that you have made some good points about the ego of knowledge, and i have found myself to be guilty of this at times... and therefore i am not averse to being reminded of this, and learning more about the subject
If you are interested, you may express about what you are guilty of so that others can will be more precautionary about themselves.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by mbbhat » 03 Mar 2013

When we develop ego of knowledge, we instead of behaving like student, we begin to behave like a teacher, but not a teacher with self esteem.

We will be like a teacher behaving like donkey occasionally taking burden on our head knowingly or unknowingly.

And, we begin to lose the student life which is admired as the best life.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by Roy » 03 Mar 2013

mbbhat wrote:If you are interested, you may express about what you are guilty of so that others can will be more precautionary about themselves. When we develop ego of knowledge, we instead of behaving like student, we begin to behave like a teacher, but not a teacher with self esteem. We will be like a teacher behaving like donkey occasionally taking burden on our head knowingly or unknowingly. And, we begin to lose the student life which is admired as the best life.
Guilty of all of the above as i have much ego... so i need to balance the study with a lot more accurate remembrance! :D Thank you for reminding me.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by mbbhat » 04 Mar 2013

Thanks to ShivBaba and you for the good move.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by mbbhat » 04 Mar 2013

It is said-

Knowledge is source of income

Knowledge brings power.

Knowledge brings happiness.


I think all these three will become opposite when there is ego of knowledge.
-------
I do not know whether i had written the following.

The purpose of knowledge is to realize and reveal ShivBaba/God and not the knowledge(!). When there is ego of knowledge we will not be able to reveal either knowledge or God properly.

That is why most probably Baba says- if you do not realize/recognize Father/God, you have understood nothing and by understanding God, you understand everything.

Also- a Murli point:- Baap ko paanaa arthaath sab kuch paanaa = If you realize/got Father, you got everything.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by arjun » 05 Mar 2013

mbbhat wrote:But, PBKs are ready to discussions and discussions.

So- does it imply so many discussions are waste?

Yes, so PBKs should discuss just about Father, is it not? Then why do they discuss about Vedanti Bhen, Kamala dixit, etc with others with new comers or BKs or ex BKs, etc. (until they understand Father)? All those are going to be waste, is it not? [It is OK, if PBKs discuss these with themselves for their higher levels of growth, I do not say that is wrong
mbbhat Bhai,
The above words portray as if the PBKs initiate endless discussions, whereas the fact is that it is you who initiate most of the discussions. When you are absent from the forum there are hardly any discussions. It is you who dig out old comments and initiate and feed endless discussions. So, your allegations are totally false.

And we are here to discuss only about the Father who has come in practical. Just because you raise questions about other actors we reply. Moreover Baba has said in the Murlis that one should know about the main actors of this drama along with the director. So, there is no harm if we discuss about the main actors. But our intellect should not be attached to them.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by arjun » 05 Mar 2013

mbbhat wrote:So- does it imply- without knowing these things, (like who is Kamala Dixit, why she left Yagya, when Vedanti Bhen will come, what is date of birth of Sevakram, what is date of birth of DL,.. blah, blah) if one remembers Shiv in body of dixit, it will not be right one?

And, if one knows this, does it imply he should remember all those actors also with ShivBaba while doing remembrance?
Remembering the incorporeal through the corporeal is the correct method of remembrance. But if you remember other actors while remembering ShivBaba then it is not the accurate remembrance. Accurate remembrance means one ShivBaba and none else. But we should know who is that one Sakar through whom that incorporeal one is working in this Confluence Age.

"प्रजापिता ब्रह्मा भी जरूर यहां होगा ना। प्रजापिता तो मनुष्य है ना। प्रजा जरूर यहां ही रची जाती है।....बाप को तो रथ है नहीं। वह निराकार ही गाया जाता है। न सूक्ष्म शरीर है, न स्थूल शरीर है। निराकार खुद रथ में जब बैठे तब बोल सके। रथ बिगर पतितों को पावन कैसे बनायेंगे। बाप कहते हैं मैं निराकार आकर इनका लोन लेता हूँ। टेम्प्ररी लोन लिया है, इनको भाग्यशाली रथ कहा जाता है।"(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली तारीख 22.12.05, पृष्ठ 3)

“Prajapita Brahma will also definitely be here, isn’t it? Prajapita is a human being, isn’t it? Praja (subjects) are certainly created here only.....Father does not have a Chariot. He is praised as an incorporeal entity only. He has neither a subtle body nor a physical body. When the incorporeal (Father) himself sits in the Chariot, only then can He speak. Without a Chariot how can He purify the sinful ones? Father says, ‘I, an incorporeal being come and take the loan of his body.’ I have taken a temporary loan. He is called a lucky Chariot.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 22.12.05, page 3 published by BKs)

"ऐसी-ऐसी बच्चियाँ हैं, जो एक दो को इतना प्यार करती हैं जो शिवबाबा को भी इतना नहीं करती। शिवबाबा कहते हैं-तुमको बुद्धियोग मेरे साथ लगाना है या एक दो में आशिक-माशूक बन जाना है। फिर मेरे को बिल्कुल ही भूल जाते हैं। तुमको तो बुद्धियोग मेरे साथ जोड़ना है, इसमें मेहनत लगती है। बुद्धि टूटती ही नहीं है। शिवबाबा के बदले, दिन-रात एक दो को ही याद करते रहते हैं। बाबा नाम सुनाये तो ट्रेटर बन जाते हैं, फिर गाली देने में भी देरी नहीं करते। इस बाबा को गाली दी तो शिवबाबा भी झट सुन लेगा। ब्रह्मा से नहीं पढ़े तो शिवबाबा से पढ़ न सके। ब्रह्मा बिगर तो शिवबाबा भी सुन न सके, इसलिए कहते हैं साकार से जाकर पूछो। कई अच्छे-अच्छे बच्चे हैं जो साकार को मानते ही नहीं। समझते हैं - यह तो पुरुषार्थी हैं। पुरूषार्थी तो सब हैं परन्तु तुमको फॉलो तो माँ-बाप को ही करना है। कोई तो समझाने से समझ जाते हैं, कोई की तकदीर में नहीं है तो समझते नहीं। सर्विसएबुल बनते नहीं। परन्तु बुद्धि एक बाप से रखनी होती है। बहुत आजकल निकले हैं जो कहते हैं मेरे में शिवबाबा आते हैं, इसमें बड़ी सम्भाल चाहिए। माया की बहुत प्रवेशता होती है, जिनमें आगे श्री नारायण आदि आते थे, वह भी आज है नहीं। सिर्फ प्रवेशता से कुछ होता नहीं है। बाप कहते हैं - मामेकम याद करो। बाकी मेरे में यह आता है, वह आता है...यह सब माया है। मेरी याद ही नहीं होगी तो प्राप्ति क्या होगी, जब तक बाप से सीधा याग नहीं रखेंगे तो पद कैसे पायेंगे, धारणा कैसे होगी।" (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली तारीख 04.05.06, पृष्ठ 2&3)

“There are such bachhiyaan (female Brahmin children) also who love each other so deeply that they do not love even ShivBaba to that extent. ShivBaba says – do you have to connect your intellect with me or do you have to become the lover and beloved (aashik-maashook) amongst yourselves? Then they forget me completely. You have to establish connection of the intellect with me. This involves a lot of hard work (mehnat). The intellect does not get disconnected (from bodily beings) at all. Instead of ShivBaba, they keep remembering each other day and night. If Baba declares the names, then they would become traitors; then they would not even hesitate in defaming Baba. If you defame this Baba, then ShivBaba would also listen immediately. If you do not study from Brahma, then you would not be able to study from ShivBaba. Even ShivBaba cannot listen without Brahma; that is why He says – go and ask the corporeal medium (saakaar). There are many nice children who do not have faith in the corporeal at all. They feel – he is an effort maker (purushaarthi). Everyone is a purushaarthi, but you have to follow mother and Father only. Some understand when they are explained. And if it is not in their fate, then they don’t understand. They do not become serviceable. But the intellect is to be connected with one Father. Now-a-days many such persons have emerged who say that ShivBaba comes in me. A lot of care needs to be taken in this. Maya enters a lot. The ones, in whom Shri Narayan used to enter earlier, are not present today. Nothing happens just be entering into someone. Father says remember me alone. As regards – ‘this enters into me, that comes in me’ ...all this is Maya. If there isn’t my remembrance at all, then what would be the benefit? Until one does not get connected with Father directly, then how will they achieve the post, how will they imbibe virtues.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 04.05.06, pg.2 & 3 published by BKs)
There is also a saying- Too much of Analysis leads to Paralysis
As said earlier, it is you who do too much analysis of the advance knowledge to such an extent of arguements that the readers become fed up of such arguements (we hardly initiate any discussion) and keep on asking the same questions again and again. So, the above statement applies to you, not to the PBKs, as you intend to portray.

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Re: What is Ego of Knowledge?

Post by mbbhat » 05 Mar 2013

it is you who do too much analysis of the Advanced Knowledge to such an extent of arguements that the readers become fed up of such arguements (we hardly initiate any discussion)
But, if you see pbk literature, they are like provoking the other to react. And, you only have said- AIVV have sent registered posts to BKWSU repeatedly or many times since 1969. And, i have seen AIVV students have put posters in public transports calling the other person to reply or debate for its queries. Is it a royality or the way of approach?

Hence I think, the seed for detailed analysis is put by AIVV and its wrong interpretations of Murli points and if we listen to VD's clarifications and clarifications, I think it is a detailed analysis- Here also some member has said- VD would be ready to discuss even if the children (PBKs) get tired.
arjun wrote:When you are absent from the forum there are hardly any discussions.
Really? Then, it give some credit to me for satisfying those who claim there should be discussions. Thank you.

OK, then you may have same experience once again, so that you will be free from discussions and will get time to enjoy well with ShivBaba. Because ShivBaba is the greatest, most needed. So, better spend time in his remembrance, is it not?

All the best and salutes for the gyaani tu atmas who are free from ego.

Good Bye for now.

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