WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

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fluffy bunny
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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:MR. Roy and Fluffy bunny are build up with 100% body consciousnesses and arguments ...
And presumably you are the only person in the world who is soul conscious and can decide on what it and is not soul consciousness ... and what ever you don't want to answer is body consciousness?

It makes me think you have a gripe with the BKs and just want to tease and poke them with a few buzz words that you have learned.

In the old days, the '16 Celestial Degrees of Soul Consciousness' used to include the Art of Letter Writing? Does no one else remember that? So you're not being soul conscious.

I think 'letter writing' and 'writing on discussion forums' are equal and the same.

Therefore, you will be happy to read ... UNLS U CN LRN TO WRT PRPR ENG INSD V TXT SPK M GNG T IGNR U U TWT.

Last chance, what do you want? And what 'soul group' or 'soul alignment' are you part of? Try speaking to us like a normal human being and having a normal conversation.

Thank you

This is a later version of the 16 Celestial Degrees ... a concept originally taken from Hindu astrology, if I remember correctly, and adopted to BKism. They appear to have changed it over time. Does anyone have any older ones? Their development might make for a separate topic.
16celestial.jpg

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 23 Jun 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:This is a later version of the 16 Celestial Degrees ... a concept originally taken from Hindu astrology, if I remember correctly, and adopted to BKism. They appear to have changed it over time. Does anyone have any older ones? Their development might make for a separate topic.
This list is taken from my old 80s copy of the booklet, Meditations and Jewels of Knowledge...

1. The art of winning friends
2. The art of dealing with others
3. The art of reforming
4. The art of refreshing
5. The art of developing
6. The art of remaining happy and contented
7. The art of keeping others happy
8. The art of organising
9. The art of leadership
10.The art of administration
11.The art of learning and teaching
12.The art of enjoying work and leisure
13.The art of speech and letter writing
14.The art of thinking and creating
15.The art of social service and spiritual welfare
16.The art of concealing and revealing

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Jun 2013

Roy wrote:13.The art of speech and letter writing
Good, the Art of writing is on both lists, so get your act into order, rmn.

I thought you might pick up on the Lekhraj Kirpalani/Krishna, Roy.

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 24 Jun 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:I thought you might pick up on the Lekhraj Kirpalani/Krishna, Roy.
Are you referring to the fact that PBKs believe that Dada Lekhraj Krishna, is not yet 16 celestial degrees complete?... i.e. he still remains the incomplete moon, on the forehead of Shankar.

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Abhimanyu » 24 Jun 2013

fluffy bunny wrote:This is a later version of the 16 Celestial Degrees ... a concept originally taken from Hindu astrology, if I remember correctly, and adopted to BKism. They appear to have changed it over time. Does anyone have any older ones? Their development might make for a separate topic.
Image

Dear brother fuffy bunny, 16 Celestial Degrees is the measurement unit of the soul consciousness. The figure 16 indicates 100% soul consciousness. Just as Moon becomes complete in 15-16 days so the souls too who take complete 84 births and play an all round part becomes 16 Celestial Degrees complete(i.e. 100% soul conscious) in beginning of the Golden Age, then 8 Celestial Degress(i.e. 50% soul conscious) in the beginning of Copper Age and 0 Celestial Degrees(i.e. 0% soul conscious) in the end of Iron Age. Like the Moon which becomes full complete and full incomplete in 15-16 days.

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by shivsena » 24 Jun 2013

Abhimanyu wrote:
Dear Brother fuffy bunny, 16 Celestial Degrees is the measurement unit of the soul consciousness. The figure 16 indicates 100% soul consciousness. Just as Moon becomes complete in 15-16 days so the souls too who take complete 84 births and play an all round part becomes 16 Celestial Degrees complete(i.e. 100% soul conscious) in beginning of the Golden Age, then 8 Celestial Degress(i.e. 50% soul conscious) in the beginning of Copper Age and 0 Celestial Degrees(i.e. 0% soul conscious) in the end of Iron Age. Like the Moon which becomes full complete and full incomplete in 15-16 days.
Very true---the kalaas (degrees) of the souls can be very well compared to the waxing and waning phases of the moon.

rmn

Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by rmn » 25 Jun 2013

Ohm shanti, Thank My dear brother soul Roy,
At last u have understood what I am asking, and u r able to tell u r process/method of doing yad with baba.
OK my dear brother,
Now the real thing like this,
As per baba muralis, the diety statues which are available in temples are giving indirect PAL to the people who does the bakthi, where as u childrens are getting direct PAL. If u r remembering brahma baba in sukshamvatan it is alsmost all equal to u r praying a statute in a temple and if u r remembering Father-Ram/Virendra Dev Dixit ( believed Father entered in his body) also becomes praying living statue in a temple if not direct seating infront of Father-Ram/Virendra Dev Dixit. If u r seating infront of Father-Ram/Virendra Dev Dixit and doing yad with him with u r sankalap and Father-Ram/Virendra Dev Dixit also doing sankalp to give ashrivad to u, u may get a power that instant and feels light.
But in a simple way baba tells many times apne ko atma samjo muj bap ko yad karo. What is meaning of it, why every body is doing with his own method eventhough baba is one Murli is one and simple baba tell like above.
Any how u are the first soul to tell truth about u r Yoga practice. thank ver much,
rmn.

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 25 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:But in a simple way baba tells many times apne ko atma samjo muj bap ko yad karo.
Does this mean, to consider yourself a soul and remember the Father?

rmn

Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by rmn » 26 Jun 2013

From YOY:::::::Does this mean, to consider yourself a soul and remember the Father?

Is it is based on the baba's words and it is very very simple. Many times baba tells like this only. I do not know why BKs and PBKs and others struggling a lot to remmember baba. If i am wrong Pl correct me based on the above Murli points of baba in simlple way.
Baba also told many methods for yad, but the above point was repeatedly tells, normally Father does not give hard work to childrens.
OK
thank.
Why Fluffy and bunny was salient on this i do't know

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 26 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:Baba also told many methods for yad, but the above point was repeatedly tells, normally Father does not give hard work to childrens.
Yes this point was ubiquitous in the Sakar Murlis, when i first became a BK in the mid-eighties, and i loved remembering Father Shiv in Paramdham. However, like us all, you have come to the wrong conclusion that when the word Father is used here, that we should be remembering Father Shiv the point. However, it is not the accurate form of remembrance, as Baba has never told us to remember Him in the form of a point... but He has said the following things in the Murlis to clarify what He does actually mean...

“All right, what is the Supreme Soul whom you remember? You say that He is a form of an imperishable light. But He is not like this. It is wrong to remember an imperishable light. Remembrance should be accurate, shouldn’t it? Just gossip will not work. One should know accurately.” [Mu 09.05.71]

"The Father says that remember my personified (or living Sakar) form(i.e. Incorporeal Luminous Point of Light, Father Shiv, in the body of Prajapita-Ram), do not just chant Shiv-Shiv (bindi). The bhagats(Brahmins of the Confluence Age) of Shiv (bindi), keep on remembering Shiv-Shiv (bindi form). Remembering Shiv (bindi) will not burn your sins, no matter how much you remember Shiv. All these are Bhakti-marg practices (in fact they are the shooting or rehearsal in the Confluence Age, for the bhagats of the Copper Age, who perform the same acts)." [Mu 14.01.00]

"The sweet silent Soul World (of Paramdham) is unlimited, you cannot find its end. Baba says, you need not go there to search for anything, there is no benefit in doing this. They(BKs) go beyond the stars to find the Soul World and the Supreme Soul (Shiv), but what is the use; this is not the way to find the Father or have Yoga with Him (as Father Shiv resides in His permanent Chariot, Prajapita-Ram, from 1969/70 onwards)." [Mu 06.05.87]

"Remember Me (Father Shiv) and no other, then (your) sins will be absolved. Now, how do you remember? What do you understand?... that (Shiv)Baba is in Paramdham? No, He is very much here seated in the Chariot(Brahma Baba Krishna up until 1968/9; and then Prajapita-Ram until the end)." [Mu 28.06.84; 23.09.94]

“Baba speaks to the souls. Instead of atma(soul) it will be called a jeevatma(a living soul, i.e. soul+body) because when a soul is single (i.e. without body) it cannot speak. Without a body, a soul does not speak to (another) soul. Will the Supreme Soul talk to a soul in the Supreme Abode? Although it is said that Christ was sent (to Earth) by the Supreme Soul; but there the Supreme Soul does not speak. There is not even gesture there. According to the drama a soul comes down on its own to play its part. The part (i.e. role) is recorded in the soul. So the soul comes down and plays its part by assuming a body.” [Mu 08.10.07]

"One should not think that, 'Our Yoga(link or remembrance) is only with (Incorporeal)ShivBaba(the point form in Paramdham)'. They (who practise this) are BKs only (not PBKs, or true complete Brahmins). (Incorporeal)ShivBaba can give knowledge through Brahma only. If you remember only (Incorporeal)ShivBaba(the point form), then how will you listen to Murli? Then what will be the result? If you don’t study, then which post will you achieve?” (Since 1969/70, the only Brahma in corporeal form, is the permanent or especially appointed Chariot, Prajapita-Ram) [Mu 17.09.05]

"I come in this body here(Brahma Baba Krishna) and tell that you have to remember (Me, Father Shiv) there (in the body of Prajapita-Ram, the especially appointed or permanent Chariot), where you have to go (from) now (on - i.e. from 1969/70). You should not remember (Me) here (after 1969, in Brahma Baba's subtle body)." [Mu 19.04.78]

"I do not enter Brahma(Baba Krishna), the dweller of the Subtle Region." [Mu 04.11.72]

"The pictureless (Father Shiv) should be remembered along with the picture(corporeal Prajapita Brahma aka Ram), then you will become virtuous. But if you remember only the picture and the role (of the Chariot), then you will remember only the role. Hence, along with the pictureless (Incorporeal Father Shiv), the picture(corporeal Prajapita Brahma) and his role should be remembered." [Av 18.01.70]

"Children ask, “How should we remember (Father Shiv)? Many children get a doubt whether they should remember ShivBaba in Brahma’s body. Baba says that one should remember the soul (bindi Shiv)... but the body (or Chariot - temporary Krishna, then permanent Ram) also comes to the mind along with the soul (of Shiv). First body, then soul. Baba is sitting in this body... so the body will also come to the mind surely." [Mu 13.05.69]

"You know that ShivBaba is a point... OK!... If you feel that point is small then house (or Chariot) is big, isn’t it? So remember the house. Baba also stays there." [Mu 04.09.76]

"Incorporeal Father (Shiv) is highest of the high, but till you do not have the full introduction, then whom will you remember?... It is sung, Parampita Paramatma Shiv ie. worshipping the incorporeal, and trying to remember the incorporeal... but who is Shiv?.. you need the full introduction... Why do you remember the incorporeal?... what are you going to get by this?... do you want to go to the incorporeal world(i.e only achieve mukti, and not jeevanmukti - liberation whilst remaining in the body)?... Well everyone(BKs) remembers like this, but without the full introduction (of Father Shiv in His permanent Chariot or home - Prajapita-Ram); remembering in such a manner, nobody will become pure(attain jeevanmukti - nar to Narayan in this very birth)." [Mu 01.08.03]

"This Confluence is called the most auspicious age. There are also the most elevated of all human beings. All the rest are degraded... Those who were worthy of worship have now become worshippers... they take 84 births. Those bodies have finished. When they are satopradhan (in the Golden Age) they are not worshipped. They are in the living form. You now remember ShivBaba in the living form(i.e. in His corporeal Chariot, not in the Soul World, as incorporeal ShivBaba is not in living form, when He remains in the Soul World). Then when you become worshipper you will worship stone. Baba is now in the living form (i.e. in His corporeal Chariot)." [Mu 07.02.04]

"Sweet children, although the Father (Ram ShivBaba) is here, face-to-face with you (form 1976), you still have to remember Him at home in the land of peace (when you are not in His direct company). Let your intellect's Yoga always remain up above (i.e. go beyond this corporeal world, by considering yourself a soul, and remembering the Father, incorporeal ShivBaba, in his home in the land of peace - i.e. in the corporeal body of Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 22.12.12]

"You must remember (Ram)ShivBaba (from 1976)... forget the body (of the temporary Chariot, Brahma Baba Krishna) and (other) bodily beings (by seeing everyone as a soul) and consider yourself as a soul (also). Father explains repeatedly - know yourself as a soul and remember the Father (Ram ShivBaba, from 1976)... Otherwise, you will be deceived a lot at the end - you become ugly in some or other way." [Mu 26.06.11]

"Baba(Shiv) doesn’t stay in him(Brahma Baba Krishna) always(throughout the Confluence Age). Yes, He has an appointed Chariot(mukarrar rath - Prajapita-Ram). He is called the Chariot of Hussein." [Mu 15.08.72]

"This Chariot (Prajapita-Ram) or throne of Akalmoort (the immortal embodied one), is especially appointed (the mukarrar rath)." [Mu 08.08.78]

"There is a support in the corporeal form even now (in 1970 via Prajapita-Ram). Just as earlier the instrumental corporeal body (of Brahma Baba Krishna) was a support; similarly even now there is support in the corporeal form, who is made instrumental. Earlier(in the very beginning of the Yagya) also (some one was) instrumental only(i.e. Prajapita-Ram in his previous birth), even now (someone) is instrumental… Affection with the corporeal means affection with the entire family. The corporeal form is not alone. If Prajapita is present (here in the corporeal world, in corporeal form), then the family is also present." [Av 18.01.70]

“ShivBaba also says that I initially explain to this one(corporeal Brahma Brahma Krishna, because his ears are the nearest). This (corporeal Chariot) is ShivBaba's living home. First of all this one (Brahma Baba Krishna) learns (because he is closest). Then the adopted children are learning from(through) him numberwise. These are very deep matters. The bestower of true salvation, the purifier of the sinful ones comes Himself and explains(clarifies) all these secrets (but only does this at an advanced level through body of the corporeal Father Prajapita-Ram, not the mother Brahma Baba Krishna). It is not that he gives inspiration from there (in the Soul World). He comes here (on earth, which is where we have to remember Him, in the living home of His Chariot).” [Mu 23.02.07]

"Remember sukhdham and shantidham... Remember your Father (Shiv) and sweet home (Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 21.03.08]

“Now you have to go home(i.e. remember Father Shiv in the permanent Chariot, Prajapita-Ram). From there you have to come to your kingdom (Heaven-Ramraj). In the end these two topics remain – we have to go (to the living Ram ShivBaba) and then come (in Heaven-Ramraj). It is seen that when we remain in this remembrance, then the diseases of the body which trouble us subside automatically. That joy remains... there is no food like joy. This is why children have to be explained this, too. Children, now you have to go home, you have to go to the sweet home(i.e. the body of Prajapita-Ram, where Father Shiv resides, from 1969/70) and you have to forget this old world. This is called the journey of (accurate) remembrance.” [Mu 06.07.09]

"Along with Father Shiv, rememberence of home(Prajapita-Ram) is also necessary, because we have to return back home... We have to remember Father Shiv in the home(i.e the especially appointed or permanent Chariot) only.... The intellect should not be broken from Paramdham, sweet home (because Paramdham is created here on earth, through the incorporeal stages of Father Shiv and Prajapita-Ram - we should not remember the Soul World that lies beyond the stars, as Father Shiv is not there during the Confluence Age)." [Mu 13.08.05]

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fluffy bunny
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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by fluffy bunny » 26 Jun 2013

rmn wrote: Why Fluffy and bunny was salient on this i do't know
Because it does not interest me, and I think you are a waste of time.

You don't want an answer. You just want to score a point for some reason, to create confusion. Try asking a question you genuinely want to know the answer for.

I asked you reasonably what your position was, BK, ex-PBK, anti-PBK etc, and you refused to answer. It strikes me you have no manners.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.”

Mark Twain

rmn

Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by rmn » 27 Jun 2013

Tha man who does not know things, it is a big crime to ask him a doubt or to do a work.
thanx

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by arjun » 29 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:Why i asked u to tell without quoting Murli points is that, every soul in BK or PBK or others, does not says, how he is doing yad with Baba but always says some Murli points with dates each souls says each different date and different Murli point. For that reason i asked u, star wars how u r doing yad with Baba, u too also started telling different dates of muralis and different points for yad. My request is how u r doing yad with Baba thats all. If u both are ready to tell u r process/method of yad with Baba pl tell me other wise close the issue.
rmn, it has been said several times on this forum that PBKs remember the incorporeal point of light Shiva through the body of Baba Virendra Dev Dixit (considered to be Prajapita Brahma or Shankar). I hope you will close the issue now. ;-)

rmn

Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by rmn » 30 Jun 2013

Ohm shanti, U people are quoting all based on the Murli points with dates and with in brackets u have included u r man math
thanx

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Re: WHY DISPUTES ON Murli POINTS

Post by Roy » 30 Jun 2013

rmn wrote:Ohm shanti, U people are quoting all based on the Murli points with dates and with in brackets u have included u r man math
Whether it is manmat or not, remains to be seen... but at least i haven't tampered with the main text.

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