Marrying types

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Re: Marrying types

Post by arjun » 03 Jul 2013

fluffy-bunny wrote:The words he uses are like, "brothel ... slaughterhouse ... murder ... etc". You don't take a cake to slaughter.
"बाप कहते हैं - मुझे कितनी मेहनत करनी पड़ती है। कितना ओना रहता है, कहाँ कोई बच्चियाँ गुण्डों के हाथ में न आ जायें। दुनिया बहुत गन्दी है। सेन्टर पर गन्दे लोग आ जाते हैं। नाम रूप में फंस पड़ते हैं। यज्ञ में अनेक प्रकार के विघ्न भी पड़ते हैं। माया भी विघ्न डालती है। फिर बहुत घुटका खाते हैं। फिर भी बाप को याद करना पड़े। युद्ध के मैदान में खड़े होकर लड़ना है। डरना नहीं है। फारकती बहुत दे देते हैं। कितने वर्ष रह पालना ली, फिर शादी कर कहाँ न कहाँ चले गये। आश्चर्यवत भागन्ती हो जाते फिर भी ड्रामा की भावी कह चुप हो जाते हैं। सर्विस में रहने वालों को खुशी बहुत जास्ती रहती है।" (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक १८.१२.०७, पृ.४)

“The Father says – I have to make so many efforts. I remain worried, the daughters should not get into the hands of hooligans. The world is very dirty. Dirty people come to the centers. They get entangled in name and form. Many kinds of obstacles are also created in the Yagya. Maya also creates obstacles. Then they suffer defeat. Even then one has to remember the Father. One must stand firm in the warfield and fight. One should not fear. Many give divorce. They obtained sustenance for so many years; then they got married and went somewhere or the other. They surprisingly run away. Even then one becomes silent by calling it a role fixed in the drama. Those who keep doing service remain very happy." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 18.12.07, pg 4 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

बाप समझाते हैं – अभी यह वेश्यालय है। विकारों के कारण ही तुमने आदि, मध्य, अन्त दुःख को पाया है। बाप बहुत ही नफ़रत दिलाते हैं। अभी तुम स्टीमर पर बैठे हो जाने के लिए। आत्मा समझती है अभी हम जा रहे हैं बाप के पास। इस सारी पुरानी दुनिया से वैराग्य है। इस छी-छी दुनिया, नर्क वेश्यालय में हमको रहना नहीं है। तो फिर विष के लिए गन्दे ख्यालात आना बहुत खराब है। पद भी भ्रष्ट हो जायेगा। बाप कहते हैं मैं तुमको गुल-गुल दुनिया में, सुखधान में ले जाने आया हूँ। मैं तुमको इस वेश्यालय से निकाल शिवालय में ले जाऊंगा तो अब बुद्धि का याग रहना चाहिए नई दुनिया में। कितनी खुशी होनी चाहिए।“(ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक ३०.०६.०९, पृ.१)


The Father explains – Now this is a brothel (veshyalay). You have experienced sorrows in the beginning, middle and the end because of the vices only. The Father causes a lot of hatred in you (for the old world). Now you are sitting on steamer (boat) to depart. The soul feels that now I am going to the Father. There is detachment for the entire old world. We are not going to live in this dirty world, hell, and brothel. So, it is bad to create dirty thoughts for poison (of lust). The post will also be degraded. The Father says – I have come to take you to the garden-like world, to the abode of joy. I will take you out of this brothel to the Shivaalay (abode of Shiv). So, now the Yoga of the intellect should be with the new world. You should feel so happy.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 30.06.09, pg 1 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

In the old days, there was a big issue about purity and impurity. A Brother and Sister would never have married either for love, certainly not for sex, not even for a fraudulent visa or business as is happening now. I cannot believe even Lekhraj Kirpalani would have allowed it. How can you listen to what it says in the Murli, even read it out day after day for years ... and then bake a cake for a marrying Sister?!?
“मुख्य बात है पवित्रता की, इसलिए राखी बन्धन गाया हुआ है। बहनें बैठ भाईयों को राखी बाँधती हैं कि काम कटारी नहीं चलाना। परन्तु मनुष्य यह अर्थ नहीं समझते। तुम हो ब्रह्मा के बच्चे, शिव के पोत्रे। तो तुम भाई-बहिन हो गये। आपस में कभी क्रिमिनल एसाल्ट नहीं कर सकते। यह है पवित्र बनने की युक्ति। बहन-भाई कभी आपस में शादी नहीं करते हैं। तो बाप समझाते हैं कल्प-कल्प जिन्होने वर्सा लिया है वही श्रीमत पर चलते हैं। अधरकुमारी, कुवाँरी कन्या का मन्दिर भी है। गृहस्थ से निकल फिर बाप के बच्चे बने हैं तो उन्हों को अधर कहा जाता है। जरूर होकर गये हैं अब फिर प्रैक्टिकल में हैं। ऐसे मत समझो कि हम पवित्र बनेंगे तो सृष्टि कैसे चलेगी। अब यह तो पतित दुनिया हो गयी है। अब चाहिए पावन दुनिया।“ (ब्रह्माकुमारियों द्वारा प्रकाशित रिवाइज़्ड साकार मुरली दिनांक २४.०४.०८, पृ.२)

“The main issue is of purity; that is why Rakhi bandhan (bond of Rakhi) is famous. Sisters sit and tie rakhies to the brothers asking them not to use the dagger of lust. But the human beings do not understand this meaning. You are children of Brahma and grandchildren of Shiv. So, you are brothers and sisters. You can never indulge in criminal assault amongst yourselves. This is tact of becoming pure. Sisters and brothers never marry each other. So, the Father explains – only those who have obtained the inheritance every Kalpa follow Shrimat. There is also a temple of Adharkumari (half virgin) and kunwaari kanya (virgin). Those who have emerged from households and have become the Father’s children are called adhar (half/semi). They had certainly existed in the past and are now present in practical once again. Don’t think that how will the world continue if we become pure. Now this world has become sinful. Now a pure world is required.”(Revised Sakar Murli dated 24.04.08, pg 2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK; the words within brackets in the English version have been added by the translator to clarify the meaning)

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arjun
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Re: Marrying types

Post by arjun » 03 Jul 2013

roy wrote:If a soul does fall into lust after being a yogi, it may never recover... and in terms of its spiritual life, that soul has died in that fall. But that doesn't mean that soul should be looked down upon, and judged by others... it just means that soul is playing its part in drama, and hopefully will enjoy the rest of its life on its new course. Some souls fall and get badly damaged, and smash their bones... but if they are determined enough, they can heal and get back on the spiritual path, and may be be a lot wiser and stronger having learned the lessons associated with the experience.
I agree and this is according to Shrimat. Among PBKs, if anyone gets married either to a PBK or to a non-BK/non-PBK, but is interested to continue as a PBK, then he is asked to attend classes at a Gitapathshala (run by a PBK couple at their home) and not at the PBK center (mini-Madhubans). If they attend the classes regularly and remain celibate for a considerable period of time, then they are allowed to re-submit their letter of faith (which contains a clause of celibacy) and do the 7 days bhatti again and then they are allowed to attend the classes at the mini-Madhubans. But in case of BKs, it depends on the whims and fancies of the BK teacher. In some centers the BKs who get married get the permission to attend classes and go to madhuban very soon, but if the teacher is strict, she takes some time to grant permission. Nevertheless, there is no system to find out if the married couple have been celibate or not (like submission of letter of faith, or pledge, etc.).

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 03 Jul 2013

In the West, they invite or give them permission to live on the grounds of their luxury retreat facilities and go to Madhuban any time.

I think the PBKs have got it right in this department. That is the sensible way ... the BKs' is the expedient way. Unless they are strict, and set strict examples, the religion will loses its meaning and focus.

Monkey see, monkey do ... if one talent, physically attractive BK is seen to marry and still treated with respect and privileges by the Seniors, what message does that send out to juniors?

Ditto, we have heard of the opposite, where an ex-BK who has left and married then approached the BK leader to be cooperative ... but was treated like trash. It's all so variable and, as you say Arjun, done at the whim of whoever is there on the day.

If the BKs just change the word from "purity" to "wealth" then their principles would make more sense.
expedient

Adjective
(of an action) Convenient and practical, although possibly improper or immoral.

Noun
A means of attaining an end, esp. one that is convenient but considered improper or immoral.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by sita » 03 Jul 2013

I've just shown you how it is the wealthy and those who are chasing it that are most corrupt. I would say, as a rule, the poor are most honest and (relatively) most generous with what they have.
Yes, when one uses his position for corruption he needs the system. I agree that poor ones are honest and generous. Do you think it is money and position that spoils it all, because there is also this idea that money in good hands will do good.
Obviously, I know of many other cases where the BK leaders have split up Western couples, especially when the couple were not "respectably" marriage. That is old Hindu cultural baggage and the motivation was a sort of "my goodness, what will the neighbours think!". (The same as when they did not like men with beards or long hair!!!). They were desperate to be what they thought was "respectable".
I don't understand what you say here. Please, clarify! What is "respectable" marriage and how did they split couples.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 04 Jul 2013

In the West, and even in India these days, people don't marry. They just live together. They become a couple by their own choice and do not marry. They reject religion's interference with their own free will.

I saw "couples" who were together but not married being split up by the BKs whereas "couples" who were married were allowed to live together.

It strikes me it was all about face and "respectability" not any deeper purpose.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by sita » 04 Jul 2013

I see what you mean. They considered living without marriage as socially unacceptable, so they challenged that. But would they challenge even traditional marriage?

Informal partnership is seen as more unstable. There must be cases that disprove this, but even formal marriages become more instable now. Whether officially married or not, because the only commitement one does in partnership is the common good, as soon as after few years, naturally, the relationship would wear itself out and not give that much pleasure anymore you would be ready to sacrifice that and serach for something new. This mentality is affirmed with the overproductin that floods the markets, where it becomes easier and cheaper to buy something new, rather than repair the old.

But along with this, the tendency to oppose this is also surely growing in society. People want to be self-sufficient, to grow their own food, be independent energywise, recycle everything and not use anything from the outside. With this the traditional family principle as in a village, like unit where children are workers in the family farm becomes more. In such cases families would be more stable, because your partner above all shares same mentality, if you would abandon that it would be hard to find a substitude and your small world you have build would fall apart. So i guess a marriage within BK would be more stable, as people would share similar mindset and lifestyle and there would be more social pressure from the BK family to keep that.The social factor should not be ignred. Now the official marriage is not modern anymore also because of the social factor. I think marriage is connected with some ideal, we all pursue some ideals about what we think life should be.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by fluffy bunny » 05 Jul 2013

I don't know the difference in statistics but I am sure with a little time the internet could provide them. There are also many factors involved, e.g. the "happiness quotient", differences between love and arranged marriages, and infidelity. For example, you may find that Asian arranged marriages statistically last longer but then have a higher rank of infidelity (including men seek prostitutes) or sexlessness and unhappiness. There may be other social stigma against divorcing.

Arranged marriages tend to be marriages between families rather than individuals as in the Western model.

I've also heard other spiritual explanation for modern relationship patterns, e.g. the idea that time is speeding up and we need to process our karma with others faster and so, therefore, we have more relationships. (Not my idea and so I won't defend it).

BKs marrying for visas strikes me more as a cynical business relationships, to benefit the business of the BKWSU and against the law, rather than relationships; and we know that ordinary human relationships are devalued in BKism.

I think, for me, the splitting up of "living together couples" was more evidence of their social conservativeness and limited mentality at that time (I remember when probably the first "living together" couples came into Gyan). An imposition of their conservative values over other cultures values and I think in many ways Western society also has good and far more advanced values.

It was easier for them to rationalise and do, and get away with, and more beneficial for them to split individuals up and control them independently. They would get more out of two people if they were not spending time with each other and on each other. Marriages and relationships require maintenance and investment. It also reduces the risk of Maya, meaning alternative opinions to theirs, from spreading ... "all relationships with one".

However, obviously younger couples would have more sexual and emotional attraction to each other and older couples, especially where there are children, generally less and so, from a BK point of view, it would be obvious why.

Funnily enough, I knew a young Western BK couple who at least travelled with each other, were comfortable with each other and still follow Maryadas.

One year when they went to Abu, India, they were off on their own travelling up into the mountains, even camping. They spent a few nights right out in nature and a really funny thing happened. After a few days, a saddhu appeared out of the forest. He has been watching them and was amazed they had not been having sex and obviously meditated. He came out to find out what they were doing ... obviously it made me laugh because why would anyone spend a few days spying on a couple in the forest to see if they were having sex!!! He was probably a pervert looking to get off on it!

Of course the BKs did so without asking permission. The sister is still a high ranking BK in the West last time I looked.

Also in Australia, males and female shared a bhavan ... which is, again, normal in the West but shocking for BKs. There were no problems because they were mature about it and now they are older. So it also seems to be that a lot of depends on the proximity and degree of Janki Kirpalani's conservative influence whereas in Australia there was a more relax atmosphere.

rmn

Re: Marrying types

Post by rmn » 06 Jul 2013

Mr. fluffy and bunny, What is u r mother tongue and what is ur orignal name why u have using nick name, if u r a right person following right purushartam pl come out with real name and real mother tongue. Pl do not comment others badly without knowing who is sevakram. If u r real son of Baba's son pl come one my video chat On my email babadada1812@gmail.com i want to see u r soul in u r face. And others also who ever dare enough to talk real things on Gyan and Baba pl come to talk to face to face not writing better English like FLUFFY AND BUNNY -NICKED NAMED PERSON-JOKER NAMES on the forum. Let us discuss face to face on video chat.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by sita » 06 Jul 2013

I also respect those who marry, because it may come a time when one may have to compromise a lot with staying in the BK, to have to put up with practices that conflict with his conscience, so leaving may be choice to keep oneself clean.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by amit.gtbit@gmail.com » 14 Jan 2014

I am looking for a BK girl for marriage, Kindly contact at amit.gtbit@gmail.com
I live in Chicago and can be reached at 917-698-8090
We have two centers here, one in chicago and other one in Naperville.

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Re: Marrying types

Post by khemkaran » 27 Jun 2015

If you understand current situation in the Yagya, you will not surrender in Yagya. Yagya is not safe for you and your spiritual progress, and you cannot survive alone. But it is also true that you can achieve more spiritual experience in unmarried life than in married life. If you plan to marry, you should first understand spiritual Knowledge given by ShivBaba properly. You can learn more in married life also.

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