Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by shivsena » 07 Jan 2015

arjun wrote:
It should be kept in mind that the part being played by Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit is that of Ram. And Ram is shown in the epic Ramayana to be an ordinary human being who cries on being separated from his wife Sita and becomes depressed when his Brother Lakshman falls unconscious in the battlefield. Still he eventually wins over Ravan, the demon king.
All Hindus remember Lord Ram in times of difficulties because they believe that if they remember Ram then HE would set everything straight....but in Sangamyug the supposed Ram Paramatma-Virendra Dev Dixit panics and trembles with fear just by hearing that police is coming to arrest him and he asks for help of local politicians to prevent his arrest....this is the most ridiculous thing i have heard in my entire life and it is sheer foolishness to accept and defend such a behavior....a soul who has done tapasya for 25 years and is supposed to be master of Murlis and who teaches others to be an observer(sakshi-bhav) to every scene of drama, he himself trembles with fear ....this is a clear sign that he is not God-ShivBaba who has to set an example to others in times of obstacles, but an imposter who always fears of getting exposed.
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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by arjun » 07 Jan 2015

shivsena wrote:All Hindus remember Lord Ram in times of difficulties because they believe that if they remember Ram then HE would set everything straight....but in Sangamyug the supposed Ram Paramatma-Virendra Dev Dixit panics and trembles with fear just by hearing that police is coming to arrest him and he asks for help of local politicians to prevent his arrest....this is the most ridiculous thing i have heard in my entire life and it is sheer foolishness to accept and defend such a behavior.....a soul who has done tapasya for 25 years and is supposed to be master of Murlis and who teaches others to be an observer(sakshi-bhav) to every scene of drama, he himself trembles with fear ....this is a clear sign that he is not God-ShivBaba who has to set an example to others in times of obstacles, but an imposter who always fears of getting exposed.
It is shown in Ramayana that when Ram's wife Sita was abducted he was so depressed that he lost all hopes, but the monkey and bear friends (Hanuman, Jambavant, Sugriv, etc.) consoled him and assured him of their help. It is only with their help that he could defeat Ravana. So, there is no surprise if Baba Virendra Dev Dixit also sought the help of his friends.

But why are you avoiding the clarification that you were not arrested but just taken to the Police Station for enquiry??? Aren't you too afraid to face the truth? Now that your lie has been exposed you are defaming Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. You repeatedly say that truth does not fear anyone, but you yourself have taken the support of a lie to defame others. Instead of accepting that you have lied by telling that you were arrested you continue to defame Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. is not this behaviour more ridiculous than what you accuse others of doing?

You only see his momentary fear, but you do not see that even after he lost the support of most of the PBKs, even after the wealthy Dashrath Patel and BKWSU joined hands to eliminate him, even though he was supported by just a handful of ordinary PBKs, he could withstand the entire trauma and emerge even more stronger post 1998. You are simply jealous of his recovery and unable to digest the progress made by AIVV even after the largescale defamation through newspapers and magazines.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Jan 2015

arjun wrote:But why are you avoiding the clarification that you were not arrested but just taken to the Police for enquiry???
Yes, it seems to be a small slip up between the use of the word "arrested" and "detained", perhaps confused with a third option of "being charged".

The difference between the first two is subtle ... especially in a case like this where the police might have been abused their powers under corrupt influence such as the BKWSU or Vishnu Party idiots.

I suspect even Shivsena would say that Dashrath Patel is even worse than Virendra Dev Dixit (e.g. an even worse copy of a bad copy).
... even after the wealthy Dashrath Patel and BKWSU joined hands to eliminate him ...
What is the relationship between Dashrath Patel and BKWSU these days? I cannot believe the BKs joined with. It just what they are like.
You are simply jealous of his recovery and unable to digest the progress made by AIVV even after the largescale defamation through newspapers and magazines.
It could be jealous, or it could be genuine concern. It does not seem like jealousy to me ... or if so it must be very subtle. Shivsena does not appear to want to be god or a post-BK guru like Dashrath Patel, however it's not 100% clear to me what he does want. Or even if he knows himself.

What I cannot work out, Shivsena, is how and why you cannot completely free yourself from the beliefs. I can understand why you might want to stick to help other PBKs out ... perhaps it's necessary to believe a little to do so?

One honest question to both of you ... is there any chance Virendra Dev Dixit doesn't conceive of God in the same way as the BKs and instead really believes in a sort of universal "God is in all of us" God?

To be honest, up until now, I saw PBK-ism as a kind of methadone to escape the heroin addiction of BKism. Perhaps you disagree, Shivsena, and see PBKism as an even stronger metaphorical drug?

Virendra Dev Dixit very well might have got himself in a bit of a tangle due to his obsession with BKism and his mistreatment by conceited, stupid BK leaders. If he had not been so unfairly treated, or had the BKs not been so ignorant and dishonest, Virendra Dev Dixit would have been a great asset to them.

What is clear now is that back in 1976, the BKs were already being deeply dishonest and using the naive, misguided Jagdish Chander to create a false reality.

Kumarka and the others all knew the real truth and what was being hidden. Virendra Dev Dixit's intelligence and clear vision was a treat to their fragile delusion of others ... so they had to destroy him, they thought.

Without a doubt, he was starting to see through them and to their game ... and had he continued, he probably would have discovered many of the truths we have done since ... and saved many from abuse and exploitation.

The BK leaders prove they were anti-truth and pro- exploiting via manipulation by doing so.


Virendra Dev Dixit should occupied the throne taken by the egotist Jagdish Chander who worked to bury the truth and was happy to act without conscience, like a performing monkey for peanuts on behalf of the BK leadership.

But, as to being God, or even the we-uncertain-which partner ... that is a little more difficult to accept.

What made me question Virendra Dev Dixit was his lack of knowledge or uncertainty over all the old documents we discovered.

Why was he not led to do so? Why was he not attracted to find such important truths and instead dwell on BK fabrications?

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by sita » 08 Jan 2015

What is clear now is that back in 1976, the BKs were already being deeply dishonest and using the naive, misguided Jagdish Chander to create a false reality.

Kumarka and the others all knew the real truth and what was being hidden. Veerendra Dev Dixit's intelligence and clear vision was a treat to their fragile delusion of others ... so they had to destroy him, they thought.

Without a doubt, he was starting to see through them and to their game ... and had he continued, he probably would have discovered many of the truths we have done since ... and saved many from abuse and exploitation.

The BK leaders prove they were anti-truth and pro- exploiting via manipulation by doing so.
Seniors may be willing to talk, but afraid of what the result will be.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by arjun » 10 Jan 2015

fluffy-bunny wrote:Yes, it seems to be a small slip up between the use of the word "arrested" and "detained", perhaps confused with a third option of "being charged".
No, I don't think it is a slip-up. Had it been a slip up, he would have apologized for it by now. It was a deliberate attempt to portray himself as a martyr or victim equal to Baba Virendra Dev Dixit or other PBKs who were arrested and faced trouble in jail and outside.
What is the relationship between Dashrath Patel and BKWSU these days? I cannot believe the BKs joined with. It just what they are like.
I don't know about the present relationship between them, but at that time there might have been a subtle or indirect understanding behind the scenes.
It could be jealous, or it could be genuine concern. It does not seem like jealousy to me ... or if so it must be very subtle. Shivsena does not appear to want to be god or a post-BK guru like Dashrath Patel, however it's not 100% clear to me what he does want. Or even if he knows himself.
If not jealousy, it is definitely frustration because you might have observed that a many years ago when he started drifting from the PBK philosophy or even when he completely changed his course he did not have so much hatred or anger for Baba Virendra Dev Dixit. His arguements used to be based on Murli points. But in the last couple of years or so, his focus has been more on expressing his anger and hatred rather than to discuss with PBKs based on Murli points. It is from the same time that he has started avoiding PBKs by forming a separate Section for himself and also locked himself up in several topics where PBKs cannot reply. All this shows that he is no more willing to discuss things peacefully and is using this forum just to vent out his anger.
One honest question to both of you ... is there any chance Veerendra Dev Dixit doesn't conceive of God in the same way as the BKs and instead really believes in a sort of universal "God is in all of us" God?
The conception of God for Baba Virendra Dev Dixit is same as it used to be pre-1969, i.e. the part of incorporeal God through corporeal. He doesn't believe in omnipresence of God. He believes that God is going to be revealed to the world through the body of one person. But he never says that it is he himself.
Veerendra Dev Dixit very well might have got himself in a bit of a tangle due to his obsession with BKism and his mistreatment by conceited, stupid BK leaders. If he had not been so unfairly treated, or had the BKs not been so ignorant and dishonest, Veerendra Dev Dixit would have been a great asset to them.
No. He would have been a misfit among them even if ShivBaba had not started the Advance Party through him, just as most of the PBKs have left the BKWSU because of the difference between their preaching and their practice.
What made me question Veerendra Dev Dixit was his lack of knowledge or uncertainty over all the old documents we discovered.

Why was he not led to do so? Why was he not attracted to find such important truths and instead dwell on BK fabrications?
It is not that he hasn't taken note of the old documents. But he believes more in the Murlis which are supposed to be words of God. So, as long as he cannot corroborate the historical findings with the Murlis, he will not mention them officially. Had he been completely against the historical findings he would not have allowed some PBKs to do research on those topics.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by arjun » 10 Jan 2015

fluffy-bunny wrote:I still think the primary effort should be publishing all the most original Murlis and detailing the real history of the BKWSU.
You had recently made this comment and just yesterday a PBK informed me that all the original classes available with AIVV have been uploaded on the official website of the PBKs. At present it is being displayed on the main page of the website under the section 'new updates' -

http://www.PBKs.info/

It should be noted that what AIVV has done in such a short period, BKWSU could not do even after celebrating the Platinum Jublee. It is still afraid to publish God's words through its official website and instead chooses to rely upon one bk dr luhar to provide to the BKs.

Now nobody can complain against AIVV for holding back the required material/information. But BKWSU continues to be guilty of not only withholding the original material but also of making deliberate changes and circulating manipulated Murlis among the BKs. Now the BKs can check for themselves what was told by ShivBaba originally and what is being served to them in the form of revised Sakar Murlis.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jan 2015

arjun wrote:just yesterday a PBK informed me that all the original classes available with AIVV have been uploaded on the official website of the PBKs. At present it is being displayed on the main page of the website under the section 'new updates'.
Is that what ... Hindi Murli Scripts 1958-1969 is?

Are these all as original as possible? What date of copy?
It should be noted that what AIVV has done in such a short period, BKWSU could not do even after celebrating the Platinum Jublee. It is still afraid to publish God's words through its official website and instead chooses to rely upon one BK dr luhar to provide to the BKs.

... Now the BKs can check for themselves what was told by ShivBaba originally and what is being served to them in the form of revised Sakar Murlis.
Good work.

I don't anything about the internal politics ... what is going on there?

What is the reason for the bizarre convolution and using Dr Luhar?

I suspect there are conflicting opinions inside the BK cult, and using a "student" allows them to deny they are official.

In a way, whilst using them for their source of income and comforts, they are ashamed of them, don't value them and have selfishly withholding and been controlling them all these years.

If they are all now out and in the open, then it is to be celebrated.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by arjun » 11 Jan 2015

Is that what ... Hindi Murli Scripts 1958-1969 is?

Are these all as original as possible? What date of copy?
They are not the original copies, but the retyped versions of the original scripts. But they have uploaded the original Murlis in Audio form. If anyone doubts the correctness of the Hindi script they can cross check with the Audio file.
fluffy-bunny wrote:I suspect there are conflicting opinions inside the BK cult, and using a "student" allows them to deny they are official.
Yes, they are definitely shirking from responsibility. In case of any controversy about the material uploaded on that site (bkdrluhar.com) they will simply say that it is maintained by a student.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 Jan 2015

arjun wrote:They are not the original copies, but the retyped versions of the original scripts. But they have uploaded the original Murlis in Audio form. If anyone doubts the correctness of the Hindi script they can cross check with the Audio file.
Therefore ... originally spoken by Lekhraj Kirpalani ?

Could I suggest they are offered in plain text to, to make the searchable?

Are English ones also on the way?

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by arjun » 12 Jan 2015

fluffy-bunny wrote:Therefore ... originally spoken by Lekhraj Kirpalani ?
Yes, they were originally spoken through Dada Lekhraj. The original voice recording is available in many cases, but the typed version uploaded on the above website is a retyped version of the original Murlis. I mean to say these are not the scanned copies of the original Murlis published before 1969 but a re-typed version. The original cyclostyled copies are not completely legible. Therefore they were retyped. But please don't confuse them with the revised Murlis which were published by the BKWSU. In the revised versions they have cut or changed some words or sentences. But in the retyped version of the original Sakar Murlis words or sentences have neither been changed nor cut.
Could I suggest they are offered in plain text to, to make the searchable?
I don't know in which font they have typed it. If it is in Unicode Hindi font then it is searchable.
Are English ones also on the way?
Reproducing the English versions is a huge task for which there is acute shortage of manpower. First they have to be translated, then checked or typed. I don't think this is possible in very near future.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Jan 2015

Shame ... typical BKWSU, huh? They go on about how "many fingers can lift the mountain", but when it comes to doing it ... where are they?

The BKs could do it with the click of a finger.

OK, I understand. Completely, faithfully and accurately typed up originals.

However, pdfs are not searchable en masse.

If they are presented as plain text, they can be stuck into a database like we have for Murlis on bkinfo and then all Murlis can be searched at once.

You could also upload both versions, e.g. original versus latest BK revision, and instantly see the changes.

http://brahmakumaris.info/w/index.php?t ... akar_Murli

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by arjun » 14 Jan 2015

fluffy-bunny wrote:Shame ... typical BKWSU, huh? They go on about how "many fingers can lift the mountain", but when it comes to doing it ... where are they?

The BKs could do it with the click of a finger.
They don't want the students to know how they have been making changes in the Murlis ever since they have started revising the original ones from 1969.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by shivsena » 21 Jan 2015

fluffy bunny wrote: Well, obviously I don't believe Veerendra Dev Dixit has god in him (as BKs conceive it), but I think you're conflating two separate things here.
Soul brother fluffy bunny.
If you don't believe that Virendra Dev Dixit- has God Shiva in him and BKs also do not have true Gyan of God Shiva, then where is God Shiva at present (according to you)....kindly share your views.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Jan 2015

Firstly, it would be more honest of me to say the perplexities of gods has no place or relevance in my life right. The lessons I have to learn, the issues I have to deal with, are all very simple, basic and down to earth.

These include serious problems that started off during my time with the BKs as I was off those generations encouraged to forego a proper education, develop a proper career and start a family as I was deluded to believe that this "God Shiva" of theirs assured them the world was going to end in 1986, or at worst 1996.

Consequently, I don't believe the spirit, spirits or their mediums could possible by the one "God", nor indeed one of many gods. Indeed, having discovered just how much falsehood and deception right runs through the religion/s I do not even believe they are on the "side of light" and working for the good of humanity.

I don't know about in Hinduism, but in American native religions, Greek and other European traditions, there is the concepts of "Trickster Gods" and teachers who, ultimately, teach people not to be fooled by fooling them.

I have no doubt Lekhraj Kirpalani and even Virendra Dev Dixit are more accomplished human beings than I am, in that they were able to run successful businesses and start religions - and those activities teach one a lot about life and society - and regarding those aspects I could have learned from them. But, ultimately, I agree with the PBK view that Lekhraj Kirpalani never really quite "got it", never really understood what was going on, and was still in his own delusion.

Without wishing to offend anyone, I could also agree with your point of view of Virendra Dev Dixit ... taking the religion a little further and offering the promise of untangling it ... but then tangling people up even more and basically just making his own little business out of BKism. I am 100% he was very sincere in his search for god and I am equally sure he was unfairly treated and hurt by the treatment he received from the BKs ... but it is almost like he is rocket who had a lot of drive but who was sent in the wrong direction by the BKs in the first place, and then he was spun right out into space on his own by their unfair bad treatment of him. Now is an orbit of his own learning his own spiritual lessons.

Do I think the BK god is within him? No. I think, like the BKs, he's just learnt a way of making a living out of the BK world by learning many yuktis.

I am sorry to say this but his inconclusive and unhelpful response to the new revelations of the history removed any possibility in my mind of his potential of divinity. He simply did not appear to know. I respect him for his knowledge of BKism and for seeing through it further than any BK ... but that is as far as I go.

Do I have any concept of God now? No.

Life goes on perfectly well or the same not remember to remember gods. I think we should leave the gods and especially "godmen" and "godwomen" to themselves, not feed them in anyway, and focus on real world issues. It's enough to try and do any good you can, however and when ever you can ... and if there are any gods, angels or higher beings then I am sure they have more wisdom than us and will come and meet you if they need you or when you are really ready.

My life time's experience has taught me that the only reliable thing about spiritualism is that it is unreliable.

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Re: Is vdd-GOD of PBKs afraid of BKWSU ??

Post by shivsena » 24 Jan 2015

fluffy bunny wrote:
Do I have any concept of God now? No.
.
Bhai fluffy bunny.....thanks for your views.

You profile shows that you are now ex-BK ..which means you followed bk for some time, believed in their concept of GOD and then by seeing the behaviour of senior BKs you left BKWSU and now you do not have any concept of God....i can understand you leaving the bk-organisation but leaving their philosophy (which has many good points to inculcate) is what i do not understand.

I have also left the BKs-PBKs, but i learnt many things and took good things from both and now i am opposing the BKs for propagating half-truth and opposing the PBKs for preaching untruth-lies.(as per the study of Murlis-Vanis.)

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