Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by warrior » 02 Mar 2014

sita wrote: he does not emerge from Magadh desh, but from Sindh.
Good observation Bhai!
Yes Lekhraj was living in a luxury palace in Sindh. His house is still there to be seen. The house is at Ali Zaib Street, Hyderabad, Sindh.
In this video at the 5:09 min you can see the facade of the house. After Lekhraj the house was occupied by the famous actor Muhammad Ali.
Mohammad Ali (Urdu: محمد علی‎) (April 19, 1931 – March 19, 2006) was a Pakistani actor. He was known as Shahenshah-e-Jazbaat (Urdu: شہنشاہ جذبات), meaning The Emperor of Emotions. A highly versatile actor, he performed in historical, biographical and patriotic roles; in costume and art movies. He has starred in over 250 movies playing both heroes and villains. He was included among 25 greatest actors of Asia (all time) by CNN survey (On 4 March 2010).
(copy from wikipedia)

http://vimeo.com/26112582

enjoy it...

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Mar 2014

warrior wrote:Yes Lekhraj was living in a luxury palace in Sindh. His house is still there to be seen. The house is at Ali Zaib Street, Hyderabad, Sindh.
In this video at the 5:09 min you can see the facade of the house. After Lekhraj the house was occupied by the famous actor Muhammad Ali..
Magadha is in East India and includes most of Bihar and Bengal, and/or Bangladesh today and is where Calcutta is. Do PBKs give Magadh desh a different meaning?

It's a shame ... in their rush to put on a good makeup and metaphorically fancy dress in order to find rich, powerful and famous men to financially support and politically protect them, the Brahma Kumari women have thrown away all the mystery and wonder of their founder's religion.

Is this it? How much of the house is original? Has the top been added, or has the stucco fallen off it?
Kirpalani_Family_Home.jpg

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by sita » 08 Mar 2014

This is a very good suggestion that the saying about Mahadh desh could actually refer to Calcutta, but Calcutta has become prominent comparatevely in recent times, not at the times of the Magadh kingdom.

In the advanced knowledge Magadh desh is called the land betweens the Ganges and Jamuna and is called the land of crocodiles, where people are like corcodiles, they gobble the whole world. What is special is that there, there are all the important religious places - Kashi of Shankar, Ayodhya of Ram and Mathura of Krishna. Since the regions arround present day Farrukhabad, Kampil etc. has been once part of that Magadh desh, it is considered that this reference could also be applied to what the PBKs believe to be the present part of ShivBaba.

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by sita » 15 Mar 2015

30.06.64....at 40:00 min
"Father comes in Bharat and that in Magadh desh, the land of crocodiles... Sarasvati also emerges from there, ShivBaba also, Brahma also"
With regards the matter of Magadh desh, a point was quoted that Magadh desh means Bharat. But the above point says that Magadh desh is within Bharat.

It is also interesting that ShivBaba is presented as separate personality to Brahma Baba. One can find many such references in the trance messages, where ShivBaba feeds Brahma Baba, he smiles, ect. so it is a matter of a corporeal personality rather than a point. But Dadi Gulzar or if there has been some other trance messenger has still not depicted how does the face of this ShivBaba look like.

There is this point quoted in the PBK literature.

17.11.94, “Eastern zone is an extremely lucky zone. Why is it lucky? Because it is the land of actions of the
Father Brahma and the land of entrance.”

But in the Avyakt Vanis available on the net we don't find the portion after the Avyakt Vani where there is addressing various zones. It would be interesting to see the exact word used.

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by sita » 23 Mar 2015

In Avyakt Vani 1.2.79, addressing the Bengal and Bihar zones:

"You found the corporeal one there. So, that place is special, isn’t it? When the Government finds something special at a particular place, it makes that place important, and then that place becomes very famous - it becomes part of history. Similarly, your place is also a special place in the history of the Father."

http://BapDada.info/1064

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by sita » 18 Apr 2015

AV 18.01.2005, 5 pg. In the paragraph addressing eastern zone - 6th line.
http://bkdrluhar.com/00-Avyakt%20Murli/ ... 1.2005.pdf

“Brahma Bap ki pratyaksh hone ki bhumi Calcutta he, to BapDada ke pratyaksh hone ki bhumi kaun si hogi? Calcutta hogi?”

“Calcutta is the land of revelation of Brahma Bap, so which will be the land of revelation of BapDada? Will it be Calcutta?”

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by mbbhat » 03 Aug 2015

Baba sometimes has said for Bengal, sometimes for Sindh.

1)AM 18-01-2011:- Brahma baap may praveshtaa bhee Calcutta (Kolkata) may hee huyi hai. = Entrance in Brahma Baba happened in Kolkata.

2)AM 18-01- 2010(5):- Nimantran dene kaa, Abu kee yaatra karaane kaa yah chance bahut achchaa liyaa. Kyonki BapDada kee padhaarmani Sindh may huyi. Foundation Sindh hai. Sindhvaale apnaa hak rakhthay hain ki hum toh Sindhi hain.

= You have taken good chance of giving invitation, and taking for sight seeing of Abu. Because the coming/revealation of BapDada happened in Sindh. Sindh is the foundation. - here- http://bkdrluhar.com/00-Avyakt%20Murli/ ... 1.2010.pdf

3)AM 31-12-2008 :- Abhee auron ko bhee nimitt banaavo. kyonki BapDada Sindh may aayaa hai. Toh Sindhvaalon ko toh aage honaa chaahiye. = Now you make others also as instruments. because BapDada has come in Sindh. So, Sindhis should be in front.

4)AM 01-02-79 :- Is shareer ko bhee yahaan se doondhaa hai = This body/Chariot is found here (said for Calcutta).

5) Toh bahut2 sneh se BapDada khaas Calcutteyvaalon ko de rahe hain kyonki B baap may praveshtaa bhee Calcuttey may hee huyi hai =

So, BapDada is giving lots of love to Calcutta children, because entrance in Brahma Father also took place in Calcutta only.

Note that sometimes baba gives importance for Sindh, sometimes Calcutta. B baba was well known at both the places Sindh as well as Calcutta (he was a business man there). So it was like revelation at both the places.

In Avyakt Murlis, with the group meetings, BapDada mainly motivates each group, so also speaks accordingly.

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by mbbhat » 03 Aug 2015

sita wrote:"Father comes in Bharat and that in Magadh desh, the land of crocodiles... Sarasvati also emergees from there, ShivBaba also, Brahma also"

This is interesting reference, because if we consider that Brahma here refers to Brahma Baba, he does not emerge from Magadh desh, but from Sindh. Even if we take it that emerge does not meat to physically be born somewhere, still, the emerging of Brahma Baba on the scene of the world, his revelation like birth, his becoming acknowledged does not happen in Magadh desh.
Magadh here is said for whole India, like baba says Lanka for the whole world (not just Ceylon). Ceylon is limited lanka, but the whole world is unlimited Lanka (because the whole world is like an island resting on sea)

See post no. 59b) - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... gadh#p8771

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by sita » 04 Aug 2015

In the quotes you have collected about Magadh desh, only this one speaks about Magadh desh in a symbolic way as an epithet or byword.
1)SM 23-5-81(1):- Shiv Jayanti bhi yahaan manaayi jaati hai. Yahaan magadh desh may hee janm liya hai. Baap kahte hain yah Bharat desh bahut pavitr swarg thaa. ABHI INKO MAGADH DESH KAHA JATA HAI. PHIR SWARG BAN_NAA HAI. 

= Shiv Jayanti is celebrated here. (Shiv) has taken birth here in magadh desh itself. Father says this Bharat?India country was very pure, heaven. NOW, THIS IS CALLED AS MAGADH DESH. This will later become heaven.
Only here...after the now.

As for the rest, even in the same quote....Here, in Magadh desh itself....it is clear it speaks about a place within India. Same as with the quote below. In India....Where? It means where in India. In India, in Magadh desh. Same with the quote from the audio. In India...and that in Magadh desh, referring to a place within India. Whole India is also not known as land of crocodiles, but the area around Ganga, who rides a crocodile.
4)SM 29-7-77(2):- Vaastav may Bharat toh sabkaa badaa teerth hai. Sabki sadgatai karnevaalaa jo Baap hai, unkaa janm yahaan Bharat may hotaa hai. Kahaan? VAH BHI LIKHAA HUVAA HAI MAGADH DESH MAY. Abhi tumko pataa padaa hai Baap kaise Bharat desh may aate hain. Ab kounsaa teerth sthaan oonch maanenge? Zaroor Bharat ko hi maan_naa padey. Shiv ke mandir toh jahaan tahaan hai. SAB DHARMVAALEY JAHAAN BHI SHIV KAA MANDIR DEKHENGE, TOH JAAKAR ShivBaba PAR HAAR CHADHAAVENGE. AGAR JAAN JAAVE KI ShivBaba HI HAI JISNEY HUM SABKI SADGATI KI HAI. -43- [magadh, Gita, mandir]

= Actually Bharat is highest pilgrimage. Father takes birth in India. Where? That is also written as Magadh. Now, you know how Father comes in India....
I don't fully agree with your translation. There is no “as”. It becomes misguiding like this that Bharat is written as Magadh desh. No. The original meaning is....even this is written. (it is written where in Bharat...refer to the previous...where?)...in Magad desh.

Yes, Dwarka is for heaven, because it is famous from the scriptures as the land of Krishna. Scientists even today search fro Dwarika by the shores of Gujarat and they claim they have found it under the sea. They also claim that there is a bridge between India and Shri Lanka, Ram used.

Baba does use Lanka as epithet for hell, Ravan's kindom and Dwarika as heaven, kingdom of Krishna, so whose kingdom is Magadh?

There are many references in the Murlis about Farukhabad that people believe in the Master there.

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by mbbhat » 04 Aug 2015

I do not feel it speaks within India.
Whole India is also not known as land of crocodiles, but the area around Ganga, who rides a crocodile.
Why not whole India (or even whole of world) cannot be said as land of crocodiles? (means degraded). Or do you think crocodile is only in Ganga river and at no other place?

Moreoever it says magadh desh . Desh means country. Not within a country. So, it also goes against your view.
I don't fully agree with your translation. There is no “as”. It becomes misguiding like this that Bharat is written as Magadh desh.
I have provided Hindi words. You may translate it. Even then it just says Magadh desh. That is all. Meaning of magadh is said as India in the other Murli point.
They also claim that there is a bridge between India and Shri Lanka, Ram used.
Bridge may be there. But, how can you say Ram has used it? Someone might have included the bridge in Ramayan epic after seeing it. [Like other religions have copied from Hindu scriptures]. Just a possibility I am saying.

OK, I did not get what you are saying here. Do you believe Ram really built the bridge here?
There are many references in the Murlis about Farukhabad that people believe in the Master there.
I believe it is also just to explain the devotees by examples of Bhakti, that is what they believe. Put here- post No. 10 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... =25&t=1167

If you do not feel so, you may translate yourself and interpret and explain how those Murli points fit to Mr Dixit and PBKs.

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by sita » 04 Aug 2015

Moreoever it says magadh desh . Desh means country. Not within a country. So, it also goes against your view.
Because these used to be separate kingdoms.
Bridge may be there. But, how can you say Ram has used it? Someone might have included the bridge in Ramayan epic after seeing it. [Like other religions have copied from Hindu scriptures]. Just a possibility I am saying.

OK, I did not get what you are saying here. Do you believe Ram really built the bridge here?
I mean Dwarika the kingdom of Krishna, and Lanka the Kingdom of Ravan are symbolic. There was no such Dwarika that they have found now, no Ravan with ten heads, no bridge. These are from the scriptures that have symbolic meaning and refer to the matters of the Confluence Age. Whilst Magadh desh was real.

The matter about Farukhabad and the malik....in the points it is said that the malik are Lakshmi and Narayan. Why especially Farukhabad, it is such a vast country with so many zones. People in the Farukhabad zone are intoxicated with the malik, because if a fellow from their zone emerges and becomes malik, then they will have special pride, special acceptance and belief, special intoxication about that.

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by mbbhat » 05 Aug 2015

sita wrote: Whilst Magadh desh was real.
Without any logic! Any proof?
Becase these used to be separate kingdoms
When? In Golden Age or Conf Age? or..? Again, any proof?
Why especially Farukhabad,
Baba says many things. Not just Farukhabad*. Similarly, Baba had mentioned south Hyderabad - a Krishna party member showed me once, and they used to prove their theory. [because he was born there, like -Virendra Dev Dixit in Kampila/Fbad!] Now, have all the PBKs got birth (whether corporeal or spiritual) from Fbad?

And Baba here is clearly saying that the people of Farukhabad, even though they believe in one malik, are IGNORANT! Does that not imply that -Virendra Dev Dixit and all PBKs are IGNORANT as to the REAL TRUTH in the Knowledge?

If possible, take each and every sentence in the Murli point. Let us see how can you make it fit to your claims.

* - Baba says various things like- he says go to kumbha mela, and ask them who is patit-pavan, is it river Ganga or the Incorporeal God?

Baba also says- about Dilwala mandir. That is, people have built the temple, but do not know its significance. You children may tell them with yuktis.

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by sita » 05 Aug 2015

When? In Golden Age or Conf Age? or..? Again, any proof?
From the beginning of the Copper Age, it is true that many historical references and theories are controversial. I am not a specialist. They say there are many references about Magadha in Jain and Bhuddhist texts. I don't quite know how historians have reconstructed the history of Magadha.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magadha

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by mbbhat » 05 Aug 2015

sita wrote:From the beginning of the Copper Age, it is true that many historical references and theories are controversial. I am not a specialist.
So, you admit that you do not know. Thanks for being honest. But, it is surprising that you directly claim that while only 'Magadh' is true or specific, the rest are not true, but symbolic*.
They say there are many references about Magadha in Jain and Bhuddhist texts.
Lots of things can be found in texts of many scriptures, which then goes against Murli points and the 5000 yrs Kalpa. [In the wiki link what you have given, it goes to many thousands of years BC.]

* - If you search in texts somewhere else, they will say even those are true.

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Re: Baba entered Brahma in Bengal

Post by sita » 06 Aug 2015

The reference about Magadh desh in the audio quote refers to Manghophir in Karachi where there are crocodiles kept. Further in the audio Baba mentions Manghopir with the crocodiles.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zf8Rd75S60

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