Some evident errors

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by warrior » 17 Jun 2015

The reply received from Baba regarding the above question is as follows:
"जन्म की तारिख भी कागजी है, सही नहीं है।"
"The date of birth is also documentary; it is not correct."
Arjun, so what is the correct date of Virendra Dev Dixit birth? He says it is not correct. What date is correct?

Please clarify.

thanks

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by arjun » 17 Jun 2015

warrior wrote:Arjun, so what is the correct date of Veerendra Dev Dixit birth? He says it is not correct. What date is correct?

Please clarify.
It may take some time for me to seek clarification from Baba in this regard.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 03 Jul 2015

Error No. 08) Post dated 9th Sept 2013 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2298&start=105#p46129
Roy wrote:Thank you for the correction Bhai, this is in fact the first time i have seen this point from the 1976 revised Murli.
However, i feel the point below, backs up this interpretation of the Murli, unless you can show me that this too is a faulty point...
ShivBaba(Shiv+Prajapita) is called Ram (not Father Shiv the point). But they (BKs) have thought the Supreme Soul (Incorporeal Father Shiv) to be Ram." [Mu 14.04.76]
There is a Murli point very similar to this in year 1976. viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2180&p=41493&hilit ... hed#p41493

Read from line 23. It says- "Ram kaha jata hai ShivBaba ko. Parantu unhoney paramatma, Ram ko samajh liyaa hai"
= (ACTUALLY) Rama is said for ShivBaba (Incorporeal Supreme Soul Shiva). But, they (lokik people - i.e. people of outer world, owing to 'shooting' of same having been carried out in Confluence Age by PBKs) have thought 'Supreme Soul' to be (corporeal) Rama.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 08 Jul 2015

Error No. 09)An example of double-standard or one-sided argument

PBKs state many times that there is ghadi(time is mentioned) for the birth of Krishna. PBKs claim Virendra Dev Dixit is Conf Aged Krishna/Narayan. They quote Murli point saying birth of LN takes place in 1976. But, when questioned as to what date/instant did Virendra Dev Dixit become Conf Aged Krishna, a PBK said -

here- post on July 04th 2015- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=492&hilit=ghadi&start=1380#p49476
arjun wrote:Here, birth means revelation among Brahmins, not physical birth. There is no specific date.
Furthermore- for the question - so did not revelation take place in 1969? For that question, so far, there has been no answer forthcoming from them.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 08 Jul 2015

Error No. 10) Misunderstanding of the word "REJUVENATE" by PBKs.

From here- viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2576&p=49503#p49503
Abhimanyu wrote:This body itself will become a gold-like body (Rejuvenation) . . .

BKs believe that they will leave their bodies and get golden-like body in next birth. However the above Murli points prove that we(PBKs) will transform their bodies into golden-like kanchankaya body in this birth itself. ShivBaba is washerman, as he washes our body-like clothes. Now if a washerman says that give your clothes and I will give it back(after washing) in next birth, then will anyone give his clothes to such a washerman ? Similarly, if some study is taught then it's fruit should be received in this birth itself. For example, if engineering is taught then the student will become engineer in this birth itself. If study of becoming a doctor is taught then the person will become doctor here itself, in this birth. Similar is the case with the studies of law and other professions. If the teacher says study engineering here and you will become engineer in another birth, then will anyone study ? ShivBaba doesn't teach us blind faith. If we are studying The Knowledge and RajYoga to become a deity, then we should become deity here itself in this birth(with golden-like body). Now only those students will become deity here itself who study the complete knowledge and RajYoga through fixed Chariot of Shiva, i.e. Veerendra Dev Dixit(Shankar).
PBKs believe the old body itself will get transformed into a new one.
But, Baba uses the word rejuvenate for changing the body also.

1)SM 1-1-81(1):- HUM AAYE HAIN REJUVENATE HONE ARTHAATH YAH SHARIR BADAL DEVTAA SHARIR LENE. ATMA KAHTI HAI YAH HUMAARAA PURANA TAMOPRADHAAN SHARIR HAI. Unko badal kar aisaa(LN) lene ka hai. Aim object kitni sahaj hai. PADHAANEVAALAA TEACHER ZAROOR PADHNEVAALE STUDENTS SE HOSHIYAAR HONGE NA. Padhate hain, achche karm sikhlaate hain, to zaroor oonch hoga na. -1 [old body, cp]

= "We have come to be rejuvenated, means to change this present body and take a deity body. Soul says my present body has become old and degraded. I have to replace this body by one like that (deity body, like LN) ... "

2)SM 4-4-78(2):- Humaari kaayaa kalp vruksh samaan REJUVENATE HO RAHI HAI. Aajkal rejuvenate karte hain. Jaanvaron ki glans(may be glands), haddi aadi nikaal manushyon may daal dete hain. -83

= "Our body is going to get rejuvenated like 'kalp vruksh' or Tree of the Cycle. Nowadays they rejuvenate. The glands, bones, etc., from animals are transplanted into humans."

3)SM 14-6-72(2):- Baap hee manushy ko devtaa banaate hain. Tumhaaree kaayaa kalp vruksh samaan bantaa hai. REJUVENATE HOTAA HAI. Tumhaari atma jo kaali ho gayi hai unko pure goraa banate hain. JAB SAMPOORN PAVITR BAN JATE HAIN TO PHIR SHARIR NAHIN RAHTAA. ISLIYE HEE BHAMBHOR KO AAG LAGTI HAI. -191-

= "Only the Father changes (ordinary) humans into (elevated) deities. Your body would become like 'kalp vruksh' or (NEW) Tree of the Cycle. It gets rejuvenated. He transforms your soul, which has become black(dark), into pure white(fair). When you become fully pure, the (old) body would NOT be there.
That is why the haystack(old world) is set on fire."

Baba uses English words in various ways. If we catch just literal meaning, sometimes we may MISINTERPRET!

Regarding the example of snake:-

4)SM 18-10-77(3):- Ab paarlowkik Baap kahte hain yah puraane sharir kaa bhaan chodo. Gyaan se, apney buddhi se is sharir may rahte bhaan chodnaa hai. Yah abhi samajhte hain jaise sarp khal chodtaa hai aur nayi letaa hai, TOH YAH BAATH ABHI SE NAHIN LAGTI. Satyug SE LAGTI HAI. Toh tum bhi Satyug se lekar khal chodnaa shuru karenge. – 70, 70- [SP, oldbody]

= "Now, parlokik Father says, renounce the awareness of the old body. While continuing to be in this (old)body, you must renounce its awareness with your Knowledge-full intellect. You know that JUST as a snake sheds its (old) skin and takes a new one, BUT THIS ASPECT DOES NOT APPLY FROM NOW. THIS IS APPLICABLE FROM Golden Age. So, you also will will start to leave the body (like a snake sheds its skin) from (beginning of) Golden Age."
BKWSU SM, Rev 08.07.2015 wrote: तुम ब्राह्मणों का कर्तव्य है - भ्रमरी के मिसल कीड़ों को भूँ-भूँ कर आप समान बनाना। और तुम्हारा पुरूषार्थ है-सर्प के मिसल पुरानी खाल छोड़ नई लेने का। तुम जानते हो यह पुराना सड़ा हुआ शरीर है, इनको छोड़ना है। यह दुनिया भी पुरानी है। शरीर भी पुराना है। यह छोड़कर अब नई दुनिया में जाना है। तुम्हारी यह पढ़ाई है ही नई दुनिया स्वर्ग के लिए। यह पुरानी दुनिया खलास हो जानी है। सागर की एक ही लहर से सारा डांवाडोल हो जायेगा। विनाश तो होना ही है ना। नैचुरल कैलेमिटीज किसको भी छोड़ती नहीं है।

The duty of you Brahmins is to buzz this Knowledge to the ‘insects’ and make them become like yourselves. Your effort is to shed your old ‘skin’ and take a new one, just as a snake does. You know that your bodies are old and decayed; they have to be shed. This world is old and these bodies are also old. You now have to shed them and go to the New World. This study of yours is for the New World of Heaven. This old world has to be destroyed. From just one wave from the ocean, there will be upheaval everywhere. Destruction has to take place. Natural calamities will not spare anyone.
But, as per drama, EVERYTHING IS ACCURATE. So, there is no fault of anyone.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by sita » 08 Jul 2015

Furthermore- for the question - so did not revelation take place in 1969?
Which revelation happened in 1969?
So, you also will will start to leave the body (like a snake sheds its skin) from (beginning of) Golden Age.
Here, I think it means leaving the body CONSCIOUSLY.
JAB SAMPOORN PAVITR BAN JATE HAIN TO PHIR SHARIR NAHIN RAHTAA.
When you become fully pure, the (old)body would not be there.
The connection between being pure and the body is that body-consciousness is like impurity for the soul. If we don't have body-consciousness we are pure. For the supreme Father also, when he comes in a body, it is as if this is not his body, because he is ever pure. So when we become pure, the AWARENESS of the (old)body will not be there, i.e. we will be soul-conscious.

ALSO, there is a practical matter with respect to rejuvenation, which NEEDS to be PROPERLY CONSIDERED - that is - from where will the deity bodies come ? They cannot materialize from THIN AIR, can they?
HUM AAYE HAIN REJUVENATE HONE ARTHAATH YAH SHARIR BADAL DEVTAA SHARIR LENE.
We have come to be rejuvenated, means to change this present body and take a deity body.
I think here change can mean rejuvenate.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 09 Jul 2015

sita wrote:Which revelation happened in 1969?
PBKs believe that Virendra Dev Dixit came to Gyan in 1969, and ShivBaba started entering into his body after demise of B baba. They also believe that Virendra Dev Dixit had sent his churning, etc., by registered post to BKWSU, Mount Abu.
I think they have also written about their claim in their blogs, about the new Chariot.

So, I had put the question: So, what is the meaning of "revelation among brahmin family"? -
and it was mentioned by a senior PBk here - to be the 'birth' of Confluence aged LN or Confluence aged Krishna in 1976 - so what is the significance of Virendra Dev Dixit coming to Gyan in 1969?
How many PBKs or BKs had witnessed 1976 revelation and how was this witnessed?

And, PBKs claim Virendra Dev Dixit is Brahma/brahmin, Conf. Aged Krishna, Narayan all at the same time?

Error No. 11) Where there is Brahma, there cannot be Krishna

SM 8-11- 72(2):- ShivBaba ko toh apnaa sharir hai nahin. VAHAAN MANDIR MAY BHI LING RAKHAA HAI. Dilwaalaa mandir ka arth koyi samajh nahin sakte hain. Adhar kumaariyaan, kumaari kanyaa bhi hain. Sikhlaanevaale Baap ka bhi chitr hai. Swarg ka malik banaevaalaa zaroor ustaad chahiye. Vahaan Krishn ki baath nahin. JAHAAN BRAHMA BAITHAA HAI VAHAAN Krishna KAISE AA SAKTAA HAI? Krishn ki atma tapasya kar rahi hai sundar ban_ne liye. Brahma hai Shyaam. Oopar may Vaikunth ke sundar chitr khade hain. Braahman braahmanyiaan hee phir devtaa banenge. Yah dilwaalaa mandir sabhi se oonch hai. Unko sikhlaanevaalaa ShivBaba hai. Somnaath somras gyaan amrut pilaate hain. Mandiron may unkey paav dhokar phir amrut samajh kar peetey hain. Yah to gyaan ki baath hai. Paani ki baath nahin. STREE BHI PATI KE CHARAN DHOKAR PEETI HAI. PATI KE SIVAAYE KISKO . . .

= "... Where Brahma is seated, how can Krishna come there? The 'Soul' of Krishna is doing 'tapasya' in order to become beautiful. Brahma is dark or ugly ..."

Hence the above claim of PBKs go against the Murli point.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by sita » 10 Jul 2015

76 has been declared by Avyakt BapDada as the year of the revelation of the Father. In this year, some BKs became the first PBKs, by realizing the role of Prajapita.

The significance of 69 is that the jungle never becomes empty. As soon as the lion like king of the jungle in the form of Brahma Baba leaves, his place is occupied by another personality who produces roar of knowledge.

There are points that say - next to God is Krishna, next to God is Narayan, next to God is Prajapita, next to God is Shankar - which indicate that these refer to one and the same personality. There will be only one soul who will be just next to God, all others will be number-wise further away.

Where there is Brahma, there cannot be Krishna, because Brahma becomes Vishnu in one second, and this is an irreversible process. Brahma is an incomplete stage, whilst Krishna is a deity form.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 13 Jul 2015

sita wrote:76 has been declared by Avyakt BapDada as the year of the revelation of the Father. In this year, some BKs became the first PBKs, by realizing the role of Prajapita.
Can you name the few? If possible, you may mention the month when they became PBKs. Are you sure that before 1976 no one had become PBK, and Mr Dixit was alone in his path?
There are points that say - next to God is Krishna, next to God is Narayan, next to God is Prajapita, next to God is Shankar - which indicate that these refer to one and the same personality. There will be only one soul who will be just next to God, all others will be number-wise further away
.
It simply means they are very close to Baba. It need not mean all of them are one personality. Baba sometimes keeps Mama ahead of B Baba, sometimes B Baba as first number! Sometimes Baba keeps Lakshmi ahead of Narayan, sometimes Krishna ahead of Radha.

Here, Baba says Jagadish Bhaiji as number one. - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... dish#p4064
Where there is Brahma, there cannot be Krishna, because Brahma becomes Vishnu in one second, and this is an irreversible process. Brahma is an incomplete stage, whilst Krishna is a deity form.
True. This is what I have said, that Mr Dixit cannot be called as Krishna or Narayan from 1976, as he is not complete as yet.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 13 Jul 2015

Error No. 12) Another double standard:-
sita wrote:Sure thing after Brahma Baba has left there has to be some arrangements made for the children. He cannot just leave them alone, so he appoints someone instrument. But in the Murli it is said that it is not that this Baba will leave and you will have to appoint another guru like in the outside world.
sita wrote:The significance of 69 is that the jungle never becomes empty. As soon as the lion like king of the jungle in the form of Brahma Baba leaves, his place is occupied by another personality who roars The Knowledge.
We can clearly observe double standard or one sided argument here.

Error No. 13) Can this be Kingdom of Lakshmi and Narayan?

PBKs believe rule of Confluence aged Lakshmi and Narayan (Mr Virendra Dev Dixit and Vedanti sister) started from 1976. Now, over how many people was he ruling? And, Lakshmi (Vedanti sister) has not been with Narayan (Virendra Dev Dixit) during this period at all. And, then Narayan (Virendra Dev Dixit) also went to jail. Their Jagadamba (KDD) left AIVV and got married to her driver ... Can this be called as Kingdom/rule of Lakshmi and Narayan? Can worldly laws apply to Lakshmi and Narayan?

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by sita » 13 Jul 2015

Can you name the few? If possible, you may mention the month when they became PBKs. Are you sure that before 1976 no one had become PBK, and Mr Dixit was alone in his path?
No, I am sorry, I don't have much information about that. You are probably right that even before 1976 there used to be some activity, but it was this year that more propaganda towards the outside (and BK) world took place.
It simply means they are very close to Baba. It need not mean all of them are one personality. Baba sometimes keeps Mama ahead of B Baba, sometimes B Baba as first number!
Yes, this is also a possibility, but that they are all one person is also possible. Sometimes it is said to remember Paramdham, sometimes, heaven, the Father, etc. It may seem that we have to remember different things. In reality Paramdham is where the Supreme Soul is, heaven or our inheritance is the human Father itself, etc. If we had to remember different things, our concentration power would scatter, while the effort is to come into essence, to come to one.
Here, Baba says Jagadish Bhaiji as number one.
With the PBK view you would read this in an unlimited sense and in its meaning. Jagdish would mean the one who rules the world. Unlimited Jagdish, unlimited Ramesh would all refer to one and the same personality of the Father.
True. This is what I have said, that Mr Dixit cannot be called as Krishna or Narayan from 1976, as he is not complete as yet.
True. There are various stages in everything that takes place. First, everything happens in a subtle way. If there was declaration that in 76 Lakshmi and Narayan are born, we cannot just dismiss it. Something must have happened and firstly it happens in the mind. Like if you win a lottery, you don't get the money instantly, but instantly you come to know you have won.
Error No. 12) Another double standard:-
Sure thing after Brahma Baba has left there has to be some arrangements made for the children. He cannot just leave them alone, so he appoints someone instrument. But in the Murli it is said that it is not that this Baba will leave and you will have to appoint another guru like in the outside world.

The significance of 69 is that the jungle never becomes empty. As soon as the lion like king of the jungle in the form of Brahma Baba leaves, his place is occupied by another personality who roars The Knowledge.
There are references in the Murlis for personalities who have left the Yagya and taken rebirth, and are now 20, 25 years of age (in1966). It is said that Brahma emerges from the navel of Vishnu. In the beginning of the Yagya, this Vishnu form of Lakshmi and Narayan was there and Braham Baba emerged from them. Then when Brahma Baba used to sustain the Yagya these same Lakshmi and Narayan from the beginning, appear in the Yagya again, as it is said that Vishnu emerges from the navel of Brahma.
Error No. 13) Can this be Kingdom of Lakshmi and Narayan?
PBKs believe rule of Confluence aged Lakshmi and Narayan (Mr Veerendra Dev Dixit and Vedanti Sister) started from 1976. Now, over how many people was he ruling? And, Lakshmi (Vedanti Sister) has not been with Narayan (Veerendra Dev Dixit) during this period at all. And, then Narayan (Veerendra Dev Dixit) also went to jail. Their Jagadamba (KDD) left AIVV and got married to her driver ... Can this be called as Kingdom/rule of Lakshmi and Narayan? Can worldly laws apply to Lakshmi and Narayan?
The kingdom of Lakshmi and Narayan is small to begin with and worldly laws do not apply to it. If Baba is sent to jail, it does not disturb the mind, and the heart of children, where the actual rule takes place.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by arjun » 14 Jul 2015

karan alias mbbhat wrote:PBKs believe rule of Confluence aged Lakshmi and Narayan (Mr Veerendra Dev Dixit and Vedanti Sister) started from 1976.
PBKs never said that the rule of Confluence-Aged Lakshmi and Narayan has begun from 1976. We only said that the souls which are to become Copper Age L-N began to be revealed in the world of Brahmins from 1976.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 15 Jul 2015

sita wrote:No, I am sorry, I don't have much information about that. You are probably right that even before 1976 there used to be some activity, but it was this year that more propaganda towards the outside (and BK) world took place.
As per PBKs claim by quoting that Murli point, it should be like some event should have happened in 1976 which was highly special as compared to the period from 1969 till 1976, is it not?
Yes, this is also a possibility, but that they are all one person is also possible. Sometimes it is said to remember Paramdham, sometimes, heaven, the Father, etc. It may seem that we have to remember different things. In reality Paramdham is where the Supreme Soul is, heaven or our inheritance is the human Father itself, etc. If we had to remember different things, our concentration power would scatter, while the effort is to come into essence, to come to one.
Even if it is for one personality, a personality cannot be called as Brahma and Krishna and Ram, all at the same time. Also note that sometimes Baba says Lakshmi is ahead of Narayan. Again, this one personality is B Baba, as most of the Murli points specifically say so, and not Mr Virendra Dev Dixit.
With the PBK view you would read this in an unlimited sense and in its meaning. Jagdish would mean the one who rules the world. Unlimited Jagdish, unlimited Ramesh would all refer to one and the same personality of the Father.
Yes, in (the so called) unlimited sense, anyone can equate anything to anything. Agreed.
There are references in the Murlis for personalities who have left the Yagya and taken rebirth, and are now 20, 25 years of age (in1966).
But Baba has also said "old points will not come into use". So, just if there is some reference, should it be followed just blindly? There are also references, as Baba has said - I am ling, thumb, indivisible infinite light, I am God, you are God, everyone is God. Should we follow them now?

Again, has Baba said they are souls of Conf Aged LN?
The kingdom of Lakshmi and Narayan is small to begin with and worldly laws do not apply to it. If Baba is sent to jail, it does not disturb the mind, and the heart of children, where the actual rule takes place.
Dear soul,

Have you witnessed Mr Dixit when he was arrested? An eye witness- a senior PBk member has said Mr Dixit was trembling when he was arrested. OK, leave it. Kamala Devi Dixit (Jagadamba of PBKs) has left AIVV and got married and has two children now. Do you believe she was not mentally affected?

Interesting one sided arguments are- PBKs can just use words in subtle sense, in unlimited sense, etc., and use the points as they like, to argue one sided. But, they cannot take in the same way when the question of Prajapita comes. There they demand the personality to be in corporeal, even when lots of Murli points do not say so.

But, it is perfectly alright, as it is the way of interpretation of PBKs.

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by karan » 15 Jul 2015

Error No. 14)
arjun wrote:PBKs never said that the rule of Confluence-Aged Lakshmi and Narayan has begun from 1976. We only said that the souls which are to become Copper Age L-N began to be revealed in the world of Brahmins from 1976.
If we see here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2298&p=39901&hilit=rule#p39901 - PBKs quote the Murli point by substituting the word "rule" deliberately, even when Murli point has not said so.

But, here you say No.

BTW, can you at least explain how the two souls were revealed among brahmin family (in 1976), and how it was unique as compared to the period from 1969 till 1975?

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Re: Some errors:-

Post by arjun » 15 Jul 2015

karan wrote:At least, can you explain how the two souls were revealed among Brahmin family (in 1976),
On the basis of Murlis and Avyakt Vanis which have already been discussed on this forum.
and how it was unique as compared to the period from 1969 till 1975?
From 1969 to 1975 BKs did not know anything about the Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan. They were confused as to when Krishna will be born and when he will grow up to become Narayan. But those BKs who started realizing the practical part of ShivBaba through Shankar (Baba Virendra Dev Dixit) understood as to who were the Confluence Age Lakshmi-Narayan from whom Golden Age Radha and Krishna would get birth.

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