Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

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For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
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Shiv1976
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by Shiv1976 » 06 Oct 2015

AUM SHANTI.

When you say Paramatma/Shiv Baba it is not just Shiv

"Sabi jante hain paramatma ki jeevan kahani|So bhi ek janm ki nahi|ShivBaba key kitne janmon ki biography hai tumko malum hai|"[Mu-11.6.72]

when we were in BK we were taught that the words "paramatma" and "ShivBaba" signifies incorporeal shiv. But according to the above point, Baba is trying to hint towards a personality who takes birth. Because, the sentence "So bhi ek janm ki nahi" cannot be for Shiv. The sentence prior to this is "Sabi jante hain paramatma ki jeevan kahani". So when Shiv Baba is refering to paramatma in this particular Murli point he is actually hinting towards a corporeal personality. So who is this paramatma/Shiv Baba who has been referred here in this point?

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 07 Oct 2015

This sub-forum is for PBKs. So, I will not get into a discussion on this matter here. But, just pointing to the link for better understanding of the point, only for those who may be interested - Post No. 33- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... aphy#p4085

Shiv1976
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by Shiv1976 » 07 Oct 2015

Aum Shanti,

Mbbhat Bhai, I checked your post in the link provided by you. I could see the Murli reference which you have provided is of 2007 and not of 1972. I doubt the accuracy of the Murli wordings. Anyways I will check the original Murli to get a conclusion on this point.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by Shiv1976 » 09 Oct 2015

AUM SHANTI

"Bakki 10/12 varsh hai|Phir hum rajya le lenge|Jab tak Mama-Baba ka sharir hai tab tak hum yudh key maidhan par hain|Phir hum jagat jeet ban jaavenge|hum ladte hain vikaron se|"[Mu-22/8/1961]

When you add 10/12 years with 1961, you will arrive at 1971/1973. Now Baba says, Until Mama-Baba have their body we are in the war field. After that we become the conquerors of the world. Ask within yourself whether anyone has become conquerors of world(jagat jeet)once after Mama-Baba left their bodies. This Murli also mentions that we take the rule after 10/12 years. What is the reason for Baba mentioning this point in the Murli?

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by Shiv1976 » 09 Dec 2015

AUM SHANTI,

"Yahan to ShivBaba ke pichadi Brahma to zaroor chahiye| Jo Baba ne bahut samjaya hai devtaon ke liye bhi, ki Trimurti Brahma kyun kehte hain| Trimurti bala, sabse bada to Shankar hai na| Kyonki Baba ne samjaya hai next to Shiv, peeche hai Shankar; Kyonki Baba ko to aakarke service karni padti hai usee roop se| Unko apna sharir nahin| Shankar jiska bahut thoda part hai vo phir bhi chola le lete hain| Isliye usko Bhagwan nahin kaha jata hai| Baba ne samjaya tha na- 'Next to' hai| Place mai jaise ki vo hai| Isliye Shiv Shankar kah dete hain|[Mu 24.04.1966]

What is the difference between a God and a Human? People(BKs) say that God doesn't have his own body and he is free from the bondage of cycle of Birth and Death(Ajanma). While Human beings assume physical body and they are bounded by the cycle of Birth and Death. Considering this point to be true, I would like question BKs that why did Baba say "Shankar jiska bahut thoda part hai vo phir bhi chola le lete hain"? All these days we listened from BKs that Shankar is a dweller of Subtle Region. But above point clearly says that Shankar assumes body.

One more point to be noted here is that, Baba says he cannot be called Bhagwan because he assumes a body.
"Isliye usko Bhagwan nahin kaha jata hai"


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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 09 Dec 2015

Better explain how these Murli points support PBKs.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by Shiv1976 » 18 Dec 2015

Mbbhat Bhai,

PBKs believe that Shankar is in this corporeal world. PBKs believe that the above Murli point is a proof for that. By the way do you want me to revise the 7-days' basic course for you, where BKs claim that Shankar is a dweller of the Subtle Region?
Better explain how these Murli points support PBKs
You are not going to understand even if we try to explain the advanced knowledge. Leave it for other readers to come to a conclusion.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 18 Dec 2015

Shankar is in this corporeal world.
I am not against this, as I have already said, Mama could be playing role of Shankar after 1965. She may have corporeal body or not (I am not sure whether she has taken birth, but believe most probably, she has taken physical birth). But, even if she has taken birth, the service is done by her pure stage (subtle body) automatically, as Baba has said in many vyakt Murlis.

And- regarding the Murli point- The Murli point is : "Shankar jiska bahut thoda part hai, vo phir bhi 'chola' le lete hain."
= "Shankar, whose part is very small, he also takes a 'body'."

What surprise is there? Every soul, except ShivBaba takes body in drama. Any doubt?

I believe sometimes Baba refers just to some period, especially for the subtle deities. Here, whether it is said for the corporeal body or the subtle body, I am not sure. If we read the adjacent sentences, "Place mai jaise ki vo hai| Isliye Shiv-Shankar kah dete hain." = "It is AS IF he (Shankar) is in place (of Shiva or next to Shiva). That is why they say Shiv-Shankar.", it seems to say for the subtle body. That is only a symbolic representation of the ACT.
This Murli point is a proof for that.
Of course, there are Murli points which are yet to be understood accurately, not just jumping to some conclusion which go against other hundreds of Murli points. For example- something is put here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1995&start=270

The claim of PBKs where they call themselves as Advance Party itself is very treacherous. No Murli point proves PBKs belong to Advance Party. In fact, they go against them- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50442#p50442

I just suggested to explain how these Murli points prove "the claims of PBKs that Mr. Dixit is playing role of Shankar and PBKs belong to Advance Party or Advance Knowledge", as per the topic title. You may completely ignore my suggestion and continue as you please.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 20 Dec 2015

mu.8.2.78 "Behad ke bhi do bap hain. To ma bhi zarur do hongi. Ek Jagadamba ma, dusri ye bhi mata thari."

mu.8.2.78 "Unlimited fathers are also two. So mother will certainly also be two. One is Jagadamba, the other one, this one is also mother."

One mother is Brahma, another Jagadamba, one Father is the supreme Father Shiv, then we have one more unlimited Father. Brahma Baba is not mother and Father both. You are mother and Father both is said for the supreme Father, who here is said separately.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by shivsena » 22 Dec 2015

sita wrote:mu.8.2.78 "Behad ke bhi do bap hain. To ma bhi zarur do hongi. Ek Jagadamba ma, dusri ye bhi mata thari."

mu.8.2.78 "Unlimited fathers are also two. So mother will certainly also be two. One is Jagadamba, the other one, this one is also mother."
Who is Mother Jagdamba ??

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 22 Dec 2015

Om Radhe

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by shivsena » 22 Dec 2015

sita wrote:Om Radhe
And who is kamla devi ??

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 22 Dec 2015

She is not there in this point.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by shivsena » 22 Dec 2015

sita wrote:She is not there in this point.
According to PBKs, kamla devi is original jagdamba and part of Trimurti....so how come she is not jagdamba ??

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 23 Dec 2015

In fact, Brahma Baba was said to be Jagadamba in the Murlis. After leaving his body, on entering a female body (of Kamala Devi Dixit), Brahma Baba plays the role of Jagadamba. After leaving her body, the soul of Om Radhe also plays role through entering (corporeal body of Sister Vedanti). The Supreme Father also plays a role by entering in the other unlimited father (Virendra Dev Dixit), and in this way we have Trimurti that is said to be revealed simultaneously.
"When I (Supreme Soul Shiva) come, I come with Trimurti."

So totally there are 5 souls, [Brahma Baba & Om Radhe (in their subtle bodies) PLUS the 2 souls (in corporeal bodies) in whom they play part through entering, PLUS the corporeal unlimited Father], the combination of which represents the form of Vishnu.

At the time the Murli was spoken Brahma Baba was there (in corporeal). Although he was called Jagadamba in the Murlis, Om Radhe had (was delegated) the title of Jagadamba at that time. In this point the unlimited father (Virendra Dev Dixit) is mentioned, because at the time the Murli was spoken, he was somewhere there, whilst the bodies which Brahma Baba-Jagadamba would enter (on leaving their own bodies) were not there.

Actually, it is said in the Avyakt Vanis that each mother is Jagadamba and has to develop an attitude of a world mother, but each soul will develop such a stage only according to its capacity.

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