Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

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For PBKs who are affiliated to AIVV, and supporting 'Advanced Knowledge'.
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mbbhat
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 12 May 2016

sita wrote:Points about the confluence aged Lakshmi and Narayan:

“When these Lakshmi and Narayan were alive, there was happiness and just happiness. People of all the religions worship them; people call [their kingdom] the Garden of Allah.” (Mu.02.10.70, middle of pg.3)
Is there just happiness and happiness in AIVV after 1976? Mr Dixit himself got arrested and was in jail. Their jagadmba left AIVV. Many splinter groups came up. Mr Dixit has diabetes, needs spectacles, etc.
A ghost rides on him. ... Is Mr Dixit worshipped by all religions since 1976?
You were not able to give any reply here. You become 16 celestial degrees here. What does it mean. If here we become 16 celestial degrees, what will we would have become? A deity, is it not?
Definitely, the souls will become 16 celestial degrees complete and beads of Rudrmala here itself, at the VERY END of Confluence Age. No doubt. But, the bodies are impure, hence cannot be called as deities or beads of Vishnumala (during Conf. Age). They can be called deities ONLY in the Golden Age, when BOTH the soul and body are pure.
You may say that the soul of Brahma Baba is very much present there and active, etc. We also believe the same. But the involvement in the BKs he has is negligible. He is not practically managing the family, nor is his advice sought for any matter, practically it is the human beings who are in charge of the BKs, not God.
B Baba has taken retirement, and is now giving chance to children. It is clearly said in Murlis. Post No. 117 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... &start=160
Even when they gather, the intoxication the BKs receive is from their own big gathering, rather than from the meeting, it is from the pomp and the show.
Pomp may be there in some cases. Baba has said to advertise for service activities. That does not prove God is with PBKs.

In their own view- what is activity of B Baba in AIVV? Misusing body of Mr. Dixit and even creating eclipse of their Jagadamba? And- funny thing is - reading the same Murlis what he had spoken in BKWSU earlier?
The BKs have closed their doors for the PBKs. ...
BKs have not closed their door. Baba has clearly said- there is no need to listen to teachings of others. PBKs come to BKWSU not to learn, but to teach their adulterated knowledge. So, when their thoughts, speech and actions are negative and just obstacles to God's TRUE service, what should be done? They should be ignored, is it not? Therefore, it is Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs who have closed their doors to Pure Godly Knowledge, and are involved in propagating ONLY CORRUPTED & ADULTERATED, REVERSED advanced knowledge, FOOLING themselves and others that they are the advanced clarifications, having unlimited meaning, without being aware as to which period of time same is actually applicable.

A clear srimath of ShivBaba is said here- post No. 54 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... aavo#p7817 - which clearly applies to Guru of PBKs, who imply in his teachings that - at present itself- I am a deity (so called Conf. Aged deity), I am Krishna, Narayan, Vishnu, Shankar, etc.

6)SM 19-2-85(2):- Baap kahthay hain hum kalp2 Sangamyuge aataa hun aur koyi thode hee kah saktey hain ki hum srushti ke aadi, madhy, anth kaa gyaan sunaane aayaa hun. Apney ko Shivohum kahte hain. Us_sey kyaa huvaa? ShivBaba toh aate hee hain padhaane ke liye. Sahaj rajyog sikhaane ke liye. Koyi bhee saadhu santh aadi ko Shiv Bhagavaan naheen kahaa jaa saktaa. Aisey toh bahut kahte hain hum Krishn hain, hum LN hain. Ab kahaan vah Satyug ka prince, kahaan yah Kaliyugee patit. Aisey thode hee kahenge inmay Bhagavaan hain. Aisey manushyon ke paas jaavo bhee naheen. Tum mandiron may bhee jaakar pooch saktey ho- yah Satyug may raajy karthay thay, phir kahaan gaye?

= ... No saadhu, saint can be called as God Shiv. Many say I am Krishn, I am LN. Now, where do the prince Krishn of Golden Age stands, where these impure Iron Aged people stand. It cannot be said that God is in them. Do not even go to such people. You may go to temples and ask- these were ruling in Golden Age. Where did they go?

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 13 May 2016

We can ONLY love a 'POINT' of Light, IF we ourselves are ALSO stabilized in the consciousness of our own selves as a 'Point' of Light. But, it is true that we can NEVER hate a 'POINT of Light', because of the UNMISTAKABLE, OVERWHELMING EXPERIENCE of TRUE LOVE, PEACE & BLISS. Because original quality of soul (point of light) itself is TRUE LOVE, PEACE, BLISS, etc. But, to Love a 'POINT' of Light, one has to FIRST EXPERIENCE oneself as a 'Point' of Light ALSO, and ONLY THEN can one have such REAL Spiritual EXPERIENCES.
But we stabilize in the point like stage whilst we are in the body. We love a brother soul who is in a body, we love the soul of the Father who is in a body. If there is no body, there is no love.
If remembrance is very easy, then why not PBKs are not yet complete?
Because they have body-consciousness and have love for bodily beings.
Even if she is remembered, it will not be futile. But, would be of lower level. As one progresses, one will then step to higher level automatically.
What does it mean lower level? If God is only a point of light, remembering any body is futile. Why would remembering Dadi lead to some automatic shift to remembering the point. She is not Brahma. What is the guarantee that we don’t get stuck with the body. Even at the time of Brahma Baba there was such danger. Even for Brahma Baba it was not said that remembering the bodily being will automatically lead to higher level of remembrance.
There is also a Murli point which says- heart attack is an easiest way to leave the body.
Yes, it is said that it is a sweet death, but still it is not a death by your own will.
Is there just happiness and happiness in AIVV after 1976? Mr Dixit himself got arrested and was in jail. Their jagadmba left AIVV. Many splinter group came up. Mr Dixit has diabetes, needs spectacles, etc. A ghost rides on him. ... Is Mr Dixit worshipped by all religions since 1976?
Their kingdom is not there yet. In 1976 they were born, but have not sat on the throne. Has everyone accepted them? No, so we are still in the kingdom of Ravan, we are unhappy. In the AIVV it is the confluecne age. Sometimes happiness and sometimes sorrow, because we are brahmins and our stage is unstable, we have not become deities so far.
Definitely, we will become 16 celestial degrees and beads of Rudrmala here itself. No doubt. But, the body is impure, hence cannot be called as deities or beads of Vishnumala (during Conf. Age).
Baba has said that we change skin like the snake. The snake changes its skin in his lifetime many times, it is not about leaving the body. We die whilst alive. We purify nature, we get rejuvenated.
BKs have not closed their door. Baba has clearly said- there is no need to listen to teachings of others. PBKs come to BKWSU not to learn, but to teach their adulterated knowledge. So, when their thoughts, speech and action are negative and just obstacle to god's service, what should be done? They should be ignored, is it not?

A clear srimath of ShivBaba is said here- post No. 54 - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... aavo#p7817 - which clearly applies to Guru of PBKs, who imply in his teachings that - at present itself- I am a deity (so called Conf. Aged deity), I am Krishna, Narayan, Vishnu, Shankr, etc.

6)SM 19-2-85(2):- Baap kahthay hain hum kalp2 Sangamyuge aataa hun aur koyi thode hee kah saktey hain ki hum srushti ke aadi, madhy, anth kaa gyaan sunaane aayaa hun. Apney ko Shivohum kahte hain. Us_sey kyaa huvaa? ShivBaba toh aate hee hain padhaane ke liye. Sahaj rajyog sikhaane ke liye. Koyi bhee saadhu santh aadi ko Shiv Bhagavaan naheen kahaa jaa saktaa. Aisey toh bahut kahte hain hum Krishn hain, hum LN hain. Ab kahaan vah Satyug ka prince, kahaan yah Kaliyugee patit. Aisey thode hee kahenge inmay Bhagavaan hain. Aisey manushyon ke paas jaavo bhee naheen. Tum mandiron may bhee jaakar pooch saktey ho- yah Satyug may raajy karthay thay, phir kahaan gaye?

= ... No saadhu, saint can be called as God Shiv. Many say I am Krishn, I am LN. Now, where do the prince Krishn of Golden Age stands, where these impure Iron Aged people stand. It cannot be said that God is in them. Do not even go to such people. You may go to temples and ask- these were ruling in Golden Age. Where did they go?
Still Baba says I have come to uplift even these gurus. So how will this happen. Baba is just a point of light. Brahma Baba has retired and has put children in front, so the children have to do it.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 13 May 2016

sita wrote:But we stabilize in the point like stage whilst we are in the body.
You may think a soul in the body or even without body. Choice if left to us.

Sm 8-2-89(1, 2):- Khaate peete jaise ki is shareer may hun hee naheen. Yah avasthaa pakkaa karnee hai. Tab 8 ratnon kee maalaa may aa saktey hain. Mehnath bigar thode hee oonch pad mil saktaa hai. Jeete ji dekhte huye samjhe ki main toh vahaan rahnevaalaa hun. Jaise baba ismey temporary baithaa hai, ab humko ghar jaanaa hai, jaise baba kaa mamatw naheen, vaise humko bhee ismey mamatw naheen rakhnaa hai. Baap ko toh is saheer may baithnaa padtaa zaroor. Tum bachchon ko samjhaane ke liye. Tumko ab vaapis chalnaa hai. Isliye koyi dehdhaari may mamatw na rahe. Yah phalaanee bahut achchee hai, meethee hai. Buddhi jaati hai na aatmaa ki. Bigar shareer atma ko dekhnaa hai. Baap kahte hain tumko aatma ko hee dekhnaa hai. Shareer ko dekhne se tum phas marenge. Badee manjil hai. Tumhaaraa bhee janm janmaantar kaa mamatw hai. Baba kaa mamatw naheen hai. Tab toh tum bachchon ko sikhlaane laayak hun. Baap khud kahte hain main toh is sahreer may naheen fastaa hun. Tum phase huye ho. Main tumko chudaane aayaa hun. Tumhaarey 84 janm poore huye. Ab shareer se bhaan nikaalo. Dehi abhimaani hokar na rahne se tum kahaan na kahaan faste rahenge. Koyi kee baath achchee lagegi. Koyi kaa shareer achchaa lagegaa. Toh ghar may bhee unki Yaad aati rahegi. Jism par pyaar hogaa toh haar khaa lenge. Aise bahut kharaab ho jaate hain. Baap kahte hain stree purush kaa sambandh chod apney ko aatmaa samjho. Yah bhee aatmaa, hum bhee aatmaa. Aatmaa samajhte2 shareer kaa bhaan nikaltaa jaayegaa. Baap ki Yaad se hee vikarm bhee vinaash honge. Is baath par tum achchee tarah se vsm kar saktey ho. Vsm karne bigar tum uchal naheen sakenge. Yah pakkaa honaa chaahiye ki humko baap ke paas jaanaa hai zaroor. Mool baath hai Yaad ki. 84 kaa chakr pooraa huvaa, phir shuru honaa hai. Is puraanee deh se mamatw na hataayaa toh phas padenge. Yaa koyi apney shareer may yaa koyi mitr sambandhi ke shareer may. Tumko toh kis_sey bhee dil naheen lagaanee hai. Apney ko aatmaa samajh baap ko Yaad karnaa hai. -52, 52- [Yaad]

= ....You should see a soul without body...
What does it mean lower level? If God is only a point of light, remembering any body is futile.
The highest level are the ones which are given above. The other methods of Yaad are lower level. Even in Bhaktimarg, Yaad was not futile, but gave much lesser fruit. There are also different levels in Bhaktimarg- avyabheechaari and vyabheechaari yaads. But, all will yield number-wise fruits, is it not?
Similarly, in gyaanmarg as well, if there is honest continuous effort, one will will step to higher level of Yaad.
Also note that- even in Yagya, in the beginning, the Yaad was of remembering ling, or thumb, or infinite indivisible light, is it not? That had yielded fruit, but to a lesser extent. Or do you say- it was fully futile and wrong?*
Why would remembering Dadi lead to some automatic shift to remembering the point. She is not Brahma. What is the guarantee that we don’t get stuck with the body. Even at the times of Brahma Baba there was such danger.
Definitely, there is danger. That is why Baba had said so.
But, note that- Baba has given the name Chariot even to her.
Even for Brahma Baba it was not said that remembering the bodily being will automatically lead to higher level of remembrance.

But, after 1969, the danger is very less, as B baba is not there in corporeal body. And, Avyakt Murli points have given freedom to remember either bap or Dada. Already shown to you.

Their kingdom is not there yet. In 1976 they were born, but have not sat on the throne. Has everyone accepted them. No, so we are still in the kingdom of Ravan, we are unhappy. In the AIVV it is the Confluence Age. Sometimes happiness and sometimes sorrow, because we are Brahmins and our stage is unstable, we have not become deities so far.

PBKs believe direct nar to Narayan, is it not? So, as soon as Mr dixit is Narayan, he should sit on throne! See how much spiritual suicide PBKs have committed by claiming direct nar to Narayan.
Yes, you spoke the truth accidentally, that you have not becomes deities and just braahmins.

Baba has said that we change skin like the snake. The snake changes its skin in his lifetime many times, it is not about leaving the body. We die whilst alive. We purify nature, we get rejuvenated.

What do PBKs believe here regarding snake changing skin many times? Which all PBKs change their skin in Conf. Age or Golden Age many times without leaving body?

Still Baba says I have come to uplift even these gurus. So how will this happen. Baba is just a point of light. Brahma Baba has retired and has put children in front, so the children have to do it.

True, children will do it. Avyakt Murli point- BapDada kaa part gupt hai, bachchon kaa pratyaksh hai.

* - I believe- In every subject- gyaan, Yaad, dharna, and service- there are different levels. For example-

SM 9-7-70(1):- Baap ek2 ko baith dekhte hain yah kyaa2 service kar rahe hain. Sthool seva karte hain yaa sookhsm seva karte hain, yaa mool seva karte hain. = Father sits and observes what all services children are doing. Whether they do sthool/gross service, sookshm/subtle service or the mool/highest one.

Baba has also said- agar itnee chotee bindu ko Yaad naheen kar saktey ho, toh moti roop se Yaad karo.
= If you cannot remember the small form of light, remember it in big form.

Baba has also said- if you cannot remember the Father who is small, you remember the home, which is big.

All these imply there are different levels of Yaad.

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 14 May 2016

You may think a soul in the body or even without body. Choice if left to us.

Sm 8-2-89(1, 2):- Khaate peete jaise ki is shareer may hun hee naheen. Yah avasthaa pakkaa karnee hai. Tab 8 ratnon kee maalaa may aa saktey hain. Mehnath bigar thode hee oonch pad mil saktaa hai. Jeete ji dekhte huye samjhe ki main toh vahaan rahnevaalaa hun. Jaise Baba ismey temporary baithaa hai, ab humko ghar jaanaa hai, jaise Baba kaa mamatw naheen, vaise humko bhee ismey mamatw naheen rakhnaa hai. Baap ko toh is saheer may baithnaa padtaa zaroor. Tum bachchon ko samjhaane ke liye. Tumko ab vaapis chalnaa hai. Isliye koyi dehdhaari may mamatw na rahe. Yah phalaanee bahut achchee hai, meethee hai. Buddhi jaati hai na aatmaa ki. Bigar shareer atma ko dekhnaa hai. Baap kahte hain tumko aatma ko hee dekhnaa hai. Shareer ko dekhne se tum phas marenge. Badee manjil hai. Tumhaaraa bhee janm janmaantar kaa mamatw hai. Baba kaa mamatw naheen hai. Tab toh tum bachchon ko sikhlaane laayak hun. Baap khud kahte hain main toh is sahreer may naheen fastaa hun. Tum phase huye ho. Main tumko chudaane aayaa hun. Tumhaarey 84 janm poore huye. Ab shareer se bhaan nikaalo. Dehi abhimaani hokar na rahne se tum kahaan na kahaan faste rahenge. Koyi kee baath achchee lagegi. Koyi kaa shareer achchaa lagegaa. Toh ghar may bhee unki Yaad aati rahegi. Jism par pyaar hogaa toh haar khaa lenge. Aise bahut kharaab ho jaate hain. Baap kahte hain stree purush kaa sambandh chod apney ko aatmaa samjho. Yah bhee aatmaa, hum bhee aatmaa. Aatmaa samajhte2 shareer kaa bhaan nikaltaa jaayegaa. Baap ki Yaad se hee vikarm bhee vinaash honge. Is baath par tum achchee tarah se vsm kar saktey ho. Vsm karne bigar tum uchal naheen sakenge. Yah pakkaa honaa chaahiye ki humko baap ke paas jaanaa hai zaroor. Mool baath hai Yaad ki. 84 kaa chakr pooraa huvaa, phir shuru honaa hai. Is puraanee deh se mamatw na hataayaa toh phas padenge. Yaa koyi apney shareer may yaa koyi mitr sambandhi ke shareer may. Tumko toh kis_sey bhee dil naheen lagaanee hai. Apney ko aatmaa samajh baap ko Yaad karnaa hai. -52, 52- [Yaad]
Come on. What is Baba talking about in the quote? Is it about remembering just a point, without a body or a soul within a body, not looking at the body, whilst the soul is in the body. Where is a matter of having a choice of how to read it. It is absolutely clear. Do I have to make the letters big and colorful for you so that you are able to understand what is being said. Are you not able to do it?

You will always fail in trying to justify something that is wrong, and Baba has never said that remembering anybody is in some way some level of remembrance. Baba has always said that we should not remember anybody. You are trying to use the matters about the different levels of remembrance to justify what is wrong that you propagate that remembering Dadi is OK. No, it is not OK and it will never become, no matter how hard you try to prove it. Baba has always said about remembering the soul.

The adulterous and unadulterated remembrance, in this it is not a matter of remembering the body. Unadulterated means remembering only one God and adulterous means remembering God along with others. Churning of the ocean is also counted as some form of remembrance, because we remember the words, the knowledge, so we automatically remember the teacher. To think about seva can also be counted. Where is the matter about remembering the body in this. We have always propagated about remembering the soul. Now you propagate remembering a body. It is good that it becomes clear. Because you have always insisted that how wrong it is to talk about the corporeal one, whilst Baba has said that we cannot have connection with ShivBaba without Brahma, that the soul or the Supreme Soul cannot do anything without a body. You have started propagating that he does not need a body and it is OK to remember the body of Dadi.

You are trying to use the matters about the different understanding about the soul. Of course, these were wrong conceptions. And now do we have to take wrong conceptions that we know are wrong, just because you like to prove something that is not true. Yes, wrong conception are also fixed in the drama and by sticking to them one will never benefit.
But, after 1969, the danger is very less, as B Baba is not there in corporeal body. And, Avyakt Murli points have given freedom to remember either bap or Dada. Already shown to you.

What have you shown to me? Who is Bap and Dada? Do you know? Can you remember someone who is not there and you don't know where he is - an abstract souls in the Soul World or in the Subtle Region where no one knows where it is. No, remembrance is practical, we need to have the knowledge about time, place, name, acts, form. These do not refer to Paramdham or Subtle Region.

PBKs believe direct nar to Narayan, is it not? So, as soon as Mr dixit is Narayan, he should sit on throne!

Who has said that he is Narayan now or he has become Narayan in 76. In 76 Lakshmi and Narayan were born. To sit on the throne means that at leas some souls must accept him as their Father like king. So even if he is Narayan and there is no one who accepts it it is as good as nothing.

What do PBKs believe here regarding snake changing skin many times? Which all PBKs change their skin in Conf. Age or Golden Age many times without leaving body?

We change in our life time few times. There are stages. Baba has explained about that.

Can a pure body be born out of impure body? Logically someone must rejuvenate his body, make it pure from impure so that he can give birth to pure deities.

True, children will do it.

Will they? By fearing the PBKs, spreading fear about them, calling them Maya, avoiding them, not talking to them, spreading false accusations, negativity. Is this the good seva children do, is this even a way of uplifting others, which BapDada has shown. If this is the service of uplifting others then they better not succeed.

mbbhat
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 14 May 2016

sita wrote:Come on. What is Baba talking about ? Is it about remembering just a point, without a body or a soul within a body, not looking at the body, whilst the soul is in the body. Where is a matter of having a choice of how to read it. It is absolutely clear. Do I have to make the letters big and colorful for you so that you are able to understand what is being said. Are you not able to do it?
Have your read the post fully? Read the Murli points given in the end of the post. PBKs do not have even some BASIC common sense, before accusing others. Another Murli point says- it is OK to consider soul in eyes instead of bhrukuti/forehead.

SM 10-1-87(1):- Vah aakar Raja Yoga sikhaate hain. Tum jaante ho ShivBaba humko padhaa rahe hain. Zaroor aankhon se dekhenge na. Atma bhi hai na. Tum kahte ho hum atma hain, zaroor star misal hain. DEKHNE BHI AATAA HAI. Khud atma kahti hai main star hun. Bahut maheen hun. Atma bhrukuti ke beech rahti hai. Yah bhi jaante hain. Koyi kahte hain hum kaise jaane. ACHCHA BHRUKUTI MAY NAHIN SAMJHO, KAHAAN NA KAHAAN TO HAI. BHRUKUTI MAY NAHIN SAMJHO TO AANKHON MAY SAMJHO. Atma hee kahti hai yeh mera shareer hai. Bhrukuti shuddh sthaan hai. Isliye atma kaa nivaas sthaan yahaan dikhaate hain. Teekaa nishaani bhee yahaan dee jaati hai. [This is a point to remember Baba anywhere you like. Place is next, form is important].

= ... Soul is in the middle of forehead. (Many) know this. Some say- how can we know/sure? OK, if you cannot feel soul in bhrukuti, somewhere it is there. FEEL/CONSIDER IT IN EYES. ...
You will always fail in trying to justify something that is wrong and Baba has never said that remembering anybody is in some way some level of remembrance. Baba has always said that we should not remember anybody. You are trying to use the matters about the different levels of remembrance to justify what is wrong that you propagate that remembering Dadi is OK. No, it is not OK and it will never become, no matter how hard you try to prove it. Baba has always said about remembering the soul.
PBKs are again speaking OPEN LIES. I never said remembering (just) Dadi is OK. You only assumed so. I said remembering ShivBaba in Dadi or BapDada in Dadi is OK.
1)What have you shown to me? Who is Bap and Dada? Do you know? 2)Can you remember someone who is not there and3) you don't know where he is - an abstract souls in the Soul World or in the Subtle Region where no one knows where it is. 4)No, remembrance is practical, we need to have The Knowledge about time, place, name, acts, form. These does not refer to Paramdham or Subtle Region.
1) Maybe you got frustrated. You already know BK belief about BapDada. Why do you ask again? It is left to you to accept or not. PBKs may have different belief. It is left to them.
2) Why not? When we have knowledge, why is it difficult to remember him? When PBKs or Mr Dixit do not know about Sevakram and others, still remember/claim about them, why not here? Just double standards in PBK philosophy?
3)You are speaking lies again. We know, we have enough knowledge regarding these when compared to what PBKs know about their own Guru/trimurtis.
4) So, will you please tell the time, place, name acts of Mr Dixit during 1976 till AIVV started? PBKs have not replied at all.
Who has said that he is Narayan now or he has become Narayan in 76. In 76 Lakshmi and Narayan were born. To sit on the throne means that at least some souls must accept him as their Father like King. So even if he is Narayan and there is no one who accepts it it is as good as nothing.
Arey- Should I tell you what is PBK philosophy? PBKs believe "direct nar to Narayan". So, as soon as he takes birth, he is as good as on throne with full powers, is it not? See how PBKs are caught in their own trap while mis-interpreting the Murli point.

More here- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51424#p51424
We change in our life time few times. There are stages. Baba has explained about that.
Cannot you explain here? How many times each PBK- including Mr Dixit, Kamala Devi, sister Vedanti have changed their skins in Conf. Age.

I believe yes. The REAL Advance Party souls are having PARTIALLY impure bodies now, but their souls are pure to a great extent. So, they may give birth to pure bodies. Baba has clearly said- Father of Krishna would be impure. Of course, I am yet to know fully. [But, the PBK belief goes away from the Murli teachings.]
-------
SM 3/8/99(2):- sakshatkar to dher hote hain. Jaise shuru may bahut sakshatkar karte the. Pichaadee may bhee bahut sakshatkar karenge. Mirvaa mowth malukaa shikaar.. Itney dher manushy hai. Vah sab shareer chod denge. SHAREER SAHIT KOYI BHEE Satyug MAY VAA SHANTIDHAM MAY NAHEEN JAAYENGE.

= Lots of visions happen. As in the beginning there were lots of visions, even at the end also. ..... There are many human beings. They all will leave their bodies. No one can enter either Shantidham or Satyug with body.

The above Murli point is a great setback to PBKs!

sita
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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 14 May 2016

Have your read the post fully? Read the Murli points given in the end of the post. PBKs do not have even some common sense before asking questions. Another Murli point says- it is OK to consider soul in eyes instead of bhrukuti/forehead.
Don't try to distract the subject by quoting points. Tell. In the point you quoted...is Baba speaking about a soul whilst in the body or not, even about the Father being in the body or not? Even if the soul is in the eyes, is it with a body or not?
I said remembering ShivBaba in Dadi or BapDada in Dadi is OK.
Even this is not OK, since Shiv does not come in Dadi.
Arey- Should I tell you what is PBK philosophy? PBKs believe "direct nar to Narayan". So, as soon as he takes birth, he is as good as on throne with full powers, is it not? See how PBKs are caught in their own trap while mis- interpreting the Murli point.
This is the problem. You think you know the advanced knowledge, but firstly you don't know it well, then you understand it in an opposite manner with a biased mind, with the aim to disprove and oppose it. So you read it wrongly and interpret it wrongly.

Nar se Narayan means that from man one becomes a deity in the same birth, to change in one's life to become from ugly to beautiful. In 76 the father was revealed but, the Father comes in an ordinary form, he comes in the form of a man, he comes in an impure body in a brahmin. We get to know about the corporeal father in 76, but it is the incorporeal Father who makes humans into deities, that this Father has not yet been revealed. He comes and established the kingdom in 1 sec. This second has not yet come.
I believe yes.
No. The body that is being born is part of the body of the mother and the father. If the bodies of the mother and father are impure certainly the body that will be born will be impure. This is what the logic says, but for the sake of claiming and proving your absurd point, that is against the points from the Murli, you can claim even matter without any logical explanation, but this is the path of Bhakti.
There are many human beings. They all will leave their bodies. No one can enter either Shantidham or Satyug with body.
Not with body-consciousness and not with the same body, but we have to leave the body-consciousness and to change our body, to purify it. It is said that in the impure world no one is pure and in the pure world no one is impure, but also that I give the inheritance of heaven in hell. In the transition we go from the impure world to the pure world, first with our mind and then with our body. How could it happen otherwise. How and in which second will hell turn into heaven and is it possible that at this second all souls would have left their bodies, then where will the bodies come from later. Obviously when this second, where the hell changes to heaven comes, it will find some souls within their bodies. It is a matter of qualifying. Those who have sanskars of Bhakti, who have not purified themselves with the power of Yoga will have to leave their bodies. If you have changed from man to Narayan, if you have completed your effort and reached your stage, why should you leave the body. It is a matter of leaving the body-consciousness, no one likes to leave the body and die. We make effort only now, there is no effort in the Golden Age.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 14 May 2016

Don't try to distract the subject by quoting points. Tell. In the point you quoted...is Baba speaking about a soul whilst in the body or not, even about the Father being in the body or not. Even if the soul is in the eyes, is it with a body or not.
I try to speak or take something as a whole, and not just the 'tail', like PBKs.
Sometimes I write like that. Because I feel there is nothing wrong in it if it is fully explained in the post. Moreover, intelligent people are discussing here, not weak people. By arguing so, you yourself are stepping down. Left to you.
Even this is not OK, since Shiv does not come in Dadi.
Foolish argument. PBKs believe so. But, I have written that from BK point of view.
This is the problem. You think you know the advanced knowledge, but firstly you don't know it well, then you understand it in an opposite manner with a biased mind, with the aim to disprove and oppose it. So you read it wrongly and interpret it wrongly.
There is no problem anywhere. When PBKs give title Narayan to Mr Dixit from 1976 itself, he is as good as Conf. Aged Narayan. Even you had said about Conf. Aged deities. So, it is as good as that second had come in 1976 itself.

It is now that- you are stepping back and saying/accepting that Mr Dixit is not Narayan now- as you have found that you have got caught in your own words.
No. The body that is being born is part of the body of the mother and the father. If the bodies of the mother and father are impure certainly the body that will be born will be impure. This is what the logic says, but for the sake of claiming and proving your absurd point that is against the points from the Murli you can claim even matter without any logical explanation, but this is the path of Bhakti.
It is not that I have said. Murli point clearly says- parents of Krishna are impure*. I keep Murli points above the logic. By the way, does any logic say- impure body will become pure? If yes, why not impure body cannot give birth to pure body?

* - See the Murli point here- Post No. 41- http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... thaa#p4105

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 14 May 2016

It is now that- you are stepping back and saying/accepting that Mr Dixit is not Narayan now- as you have found that you have got caught in your own words.
You can go through all my posts, I have never claimed that Narayan is there in pratical form in 76. He is there in subtle form in the mind, like knowledge, it is there postulated in our knowledge like this and has always been like this. In 76 it was there revealed in the mind of some people, etc. I don't know if you have not understood the advanced knowledge or trying to twist it or both. But I know what I say and what I have said very well.
It is not that I have said. Murli point clearly says- parents of Krishna are impure*. I keep Murli points above the logic. By the way does any logic say- impure body will become pure? If yes, why not impure body cannot give birth to pure body?
Certainly if it was not the advanced knowledge, I would think in the same way, without thinking. Still it will be called blind faith. Only when we have it explained, we know. Otherwise we believe there will be golden palaces and atomic helicopters.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 14 May 2016

sita wrote:You can go through all my post, I have never claimed that Narayan is there in practical form in 76. It is there in subtle form in the mind, like knowledge, it is there postulated in our knowledge like this and has always been like this. In 76 it was there revealed in the mind of some people etc. I don't know if you have not understood the advanced knowledge or trying to twist it or both. But I know what I say and what I have said very well.
There is nothing to twist- as PBKs themselves and you also have used the word- Conf. Aged deities, [not just Conf. Aged braahmins]. It is already implied there. There is nothing to twist.

BTW- you did not explain about skin concept of snake in Conf. Age of PBKs. I would like to know - how many PBKs had left their skins. You may also try to explain the same about ex PBKs as well.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 14 May 2016

There is nothing to twist- as PBKs themselves and you also have used the word- Conf. Aged deities, [not just Conf. Aged braahmins]. It is already implied there. There is nothing to twist.
One may not be a deity in practical now, but there is still time left from the Confluence Age.
BTW- you did not explain about skin concept of snake in Conf. Age of PBKs. I would like to know - how many PBKs had left their skins. You may also try to explain the same about ex PBKs as well.
If I find the explanation Baba has given I will post it.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 14 May 2016

sita wrote:One may not be a deity in practical now, but there is still time left from the Confluence Age.

Silly/Fake arguments.
If I find the explanation Baba has given I will post it.
Such an important thing- you being such an experienced PBK- do not know it?
If any PBk member on the forum knows about this, may kindly express the PBK belief about the concept of "leaving skin like a snake" in Conf. Age (as well as in Heaven) . [If they feel it is part of their spiritual service of delivering their (so called) extra- ordinary clarifications.]

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 14 May 2016

Silly/Fake arguments.
Why do you find that to be a silly and fake argument. It is valid. Baba has said that we become complete only at the end. There is still time till the end of the Confluence Age for souls to become complete.
If any PBK member in the forum knows about this, may kindly put them- if they feel it is part of their spiritual service of delivering their (so called) extra- ordinary clarification.
I doubt it brother. You use everything in a negative way.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 14 May 2016

sita wrote:Why do you find that to be a silly and fake argument. It is valid. Baba has said that we become complete only at the end. There is still time till the end of the Confluence Age for souls to become complete.
How ridiculous PBk concept is. Baba has never said- a braahmin can be called as deity. Baba has never said- Conf. Aged deity. Baba has clearly said- "when there is Brahma, there cannot be Krishna" (so obviously, how can there be Narayan in Conf. Age?). Other things already put.

BTW- PBKs believe their Yaad is very easy. If it is so simple, why do they believe they can become complete only in the end? Why do they believe just 8 only can pass?
See how PBKs while claiming one thing, lose several other things. PBKs tried to put BKs down by claiming that they have something extra-ordinary, but they themselves fall into their own pit. Let them believe so.
I doubt it Brother. You use everything in a negative way.
If you have guts, prove yourself. Why do you hesitate? Are you here only for me, or doing spiritual service for entire humanity? Left to you.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by sita » 14 May 2016

How ridiculous PBK concept is. Baba has never said- a braahmin can be called as deity. Baba has never said- Conf. Aged deity. Baba has clearly said- "when there is Brahma, there cannot be Krishna" (so obviously, how can there be Narayan in Conf. Age?). Other things already put.
But he also says Brahma becomes Vishnu in one second. Brahmins become deities in one second.
BTW- PBKs believe their Yaad is very easy. If it is so simple, why do they believe they can become complete only in the end? Why do they believe just 8 only can pass?
See how PBKs while claiming one thing, lose several other things. PBKs tried to put BKs down by claiming that they have something extra-ordinary, but they themselves fall into their own pit. Let them believe so.
It is because it requires effort and time for our remembrance to become unadulterated, to burn our sins and finish our karmic accounts. Sins are cut only through unadulterated remembrance. We have done many sins in the past due to body consciousness and these come now in our mind in the Confluence Age in the form of Maya of remembering different human beings and distract us from concentrating on remembering one. We even remember our own body and materials for the body.
If you have guts, prove yourself. Why do you hesitate? Are you here only for me, or doing spiritual service for entire humanity? Left to you.
What is there to prove. I told you I don't remember this explanation. There is so much knowledge that it is out of my capacity to retain it all. If I knew where it was mentioned I could search for it, or indeed some brother could post, if he remembers or I could ask about it, but I have become hesitant and careful with posting. You see there is no one else posting. IMO you have discouraged people from posting with your negative comments, negative attitude and challenging attitude; and the attitude of fighting, competing etc. You, with your friend golden heart have poisoned the atmosphere of the forum so much that I doubt any service could happen through it. You have defamed the PBKs so much that I wonder how do you have the courage to ask them for anything. Any knowledge shared here proves itself to be disservice, because you twist it so much, you see it and present it in such an ugly perspective that I wonder how can one have such a perverted mind. With such a perverted mind you interpret the fact that no one answers you as inability to answer. If you have turned this forum into an anti PBK propaganda to score points with the BKs for your high status, why do you expect someone would stop you. You have received plenty of replies from the PBKs, but you don't respect that. But you also have the ability to argue with your own self, anyway.

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Re: Supporting Murli points for PBKs(AK)

Post by mbbhat » 15 May 2016

But he also says Brahma becomes Vishnu in one second. Brahmins become deities in one second.
See, how you write. It shows/implies that you are not sure about what you write. Guru of PBKs in his teachings boasts - "No one can give such great clarifications", and, even you also say- "they are extra-ordinary clarifications", but fail everywhere while explaining. And- you write- "But"

When I give my churning, I admit they are churning of a human soul, hence yathaashakti. But, PBKs on the other hand believe they have God with them, who is interested in discussions and discussions and giving clarifications to any questions, ...
So, what is that you or Mr Dixit clarified here?

SM 19-6-72(2):- Abhi tum jaante ho hum chadh rahe hain. Phir utrenge. SECOND LAGTA HAI CHADHNE MAY. BHAL TUMKO CHADHNEY MAY 25-30 VARSH LAGTE HAIN. PICHAADI AANEVAALE SECOND MAY CHADH SAKTE HAIN. Ablaavon maataavon par kitney atyaachaar hote hain. -197- [wot, ER, second]

= You know we are climbing now. Then we will descend. 1)It takes second to climb. 2)Of course, for you it takes 25 to 30 years to climb. 3)Those who come late, they can climb in a second. ...

It is very difficult to explain B so V in one second- if we take the Murli point in literal sense. I believe second here means very much lesser time when compared to the time takes for V to B.

Since it is difficult to explain some Murli points in literal sense, Mr. Dixit took the advantage of the situation and tried to act over-smart, by trying to prove he is smarter than BKs, by creating a new philosophy- the so called 'extra-ordinary' clarifications. But, finally, they fell into their own pit.

If you see the above Murli point, it first says- 1)it takes only a second to climb. Is that right?
2)It then says- for the present children, it takes 25 to 30 years to climb.
3)It then says- those who come late can climb in a second. SO DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THERE WOULD BE SOME CHILDREN WHOSE EFFORT WOULD BE COMPLETED IN A SECOND?

So- I believe - It means those who come late do not need same time, as the gyaan at the end would be more refined. There is an Avyakt Murli point- "The present 5 years is equivalent to past 50 years".
It is because it requires effort ...
Are not these silly arguments? If remembrance of PBKs is very easy (and not at all difficult- as you claim we remember face to face, etc, etc) , where is room to say- "because it requires effort...."...Then why do PBKs boast/claim that their remembrance is easier?
What is there to prove....
What you have proved are clearly visible here.
You have defamed the PBKs so much that I wonder how do you have the courage to ask them for anything
I did not ask you anything personally. I said- if you are interested, you may give reply.

When PBKs defame BKs, it is not at all wrong. But, when you get reply in the same way, you feel bad.
How silly!

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