Some evident errors

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mbbhat
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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 15 Jun 2017

# Error No. 55) Refinement or Replacement (and manipulation)?-
sita wrote: From- viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=53027#p53008
As the Brother here pointed rightly our knowledge undergoes refining and changing. The old matters have to be left aside. I confirm that the current understanding about the 8 deities is 4 from Rudramala and 4 from Vijaymala.
28) How PBKs like to take it for granted for their mistakes is seen here. They believe their mistakes are actually like refining! Mr. Dixit has fooled PBKs to such an extent using the Murli points.

[In BKWSU, there had been PRACTICALLY- no change in the CORE philosophy from 1960.
Once "the point of light soul and point of light God concept" had arrived (which came in end 1950s), there had been NO CHANGE and that is FINAL one since then.

The Chariot and Jagadamba never changed- even from the beginning. The rank of Prajapita and Jagadamba are the top 1 and 2- again NO CHANGE].

29) But, in PBK philosophy,
---the Jagadamba changed from Premkanta to Kamala Devi.
---The rank of their Vijayamala head has NOW changed. Now, they say sister Vedanti does not receive punishment.
---Jagadamba became false Gita.
---Now, they even say- PBK Jagadamba Kamala Devi would/could leave her body! ...
----And even the top 8 soul theory got changed.

30) So- in the new theory of PBKs which says- 4 top beads of PBK Vijayamala plus the top 4 of PBK Rudrmala form the top 8 beads, who do not get punishment. But, PBKs are inadvertently DEFAMING THEIR OWN RUDRMALA! Because-

---The usual claim of PBKs is- Rudrmala is higher than Vijayamala. Now, as per their new or refined theory- All the Rudrmala beads (except the top 4) will be inferior to the top 4 beads of PBK Vijayamala. Because all the rest in Rudrmala receive punishment, but the top 4 beads of PBK Vijayamala do not!

31) By the way- the claim of REFINING is wrong by default itself, because - BapDada has clearly said- the (main) teaching is over, as well (it also clearly says Sakar part is completed) . - Flaw No. 44 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=44561&hilit=teaching#p44561

And practically, IT IS CLEAR THAT- IN BKWSU, there had been no change in the knowledge or method of doing Yaad since 1960 (except something like date of destruction, etc, even if postponed has nothing to do with the CORE belief of the knowledge).

Hence the BK philosophy tallies with the Avyakt Murli point FULLY, whereas PBK philosophy is TOTALLY AGAINST it.
sita wrote:The old matters have to be left aside
32) If PBKs have no hesitation to replace their Jagadamba and also (four of) the top 8 deities. Do PBKs agree that even the position of Mr. Dixit may change in future? - :laugh:

Mr. Virendra Dev Dixit is a clever person. He will change anyone expect himself! Why? Because he is the only real culprit. So- he uses anyone as SCAPEGOAT (and TAKES IT FOR GRANTED), and the BLIND PBKs believe their knowledge is actually being REFINED! - :sad:

33) By claiming SO MANY CHANGES now and then, PBKs inadvertently and clearly prove the greatest INSTABILITY in their philosophy, is it not?
[BK philosophy had become stable within 25 yrs (1960- 1936), but PBK philosophy did not becomes stable even after four decades! As time passes, it is proving to be more UNSTABLE and AMBIGUOUS!].
-----------------
SAT wrote:To give a simpler example -
God first mentioned that the soul was like a Ling - let's call this level 1 of understanding;
Then He mentioned that the soul was like a thumb - let's call this level 2 of understanding;
Then He mentioned that the soul was like a bright flame - let's call this level 3 of understanding;
Then He mentioned that the soul was like a Star - let's call this level 4 of understanding;
Then He mentioned that the soul was like a Point - let's call this level 5 of understanding.
34) As explained above, by 1960s, the BK knowledge had got matured fully enough. The way of doing real meditation/Yaad had NOT CHANGED after 1960.
[Of course, concept of Subtle Region might have been refined to more extent, (not like replacement or manipulation), but the point soul, remembering point God- DID NOT change].

Now, if PBKs claim their philosophy is also undergoing REFINING, has their method of remembrance or concept of God or the Chariot changed? No, is it not?
Hence the above explanation/justification is a WEAK one.
So, the same principle should be applicable to the advanced Knowledge.
35) That is logically true = Each one/thing should be respected.
But, as explained above, I do not think PBKs apply the principle honestly. Even here, they use it in twisted and double standard way, is it not?

36) But, I have ABSOLUTELY NO OBJECTION in PBKs refining or replacing ANYONE or ANYTHING any no. of times.
But, then automatically, PBKs commit more errors, which when brought to their notice, they should not feel bad and misunderstand, as if others are objecting it without any justification. So, kindly take the comments in the spirit of discussion. That's all.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 01 Jul 2017

# Error No. 56) Date of Birth of PBK Radaha bachchi does not tally:-

37) According to PBKs, (in their cooked up story)
---from 1936 till 1942, Sevakram had been Yagya head and left his body in 1942.
---from 1942 till 1947, the other two PBK sisters (Radha bachchi and Gitamata) used to control the entire Yagya.
---In 1947, the two sisters left Yagya, and thereafter power of yayga came to B Baba. - [ Flaw No. 56 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=50371&hilit=entire#p50371 ]

38) PBKs claim that Radha bachchi took rebirth as sister Vedanti, and Gitamata took rebirth as Kamala Devi.

So- physical death of the PBk sister Radha bachchi would be later than 1947, or at least in 1947, not before that.

But, documents say- Date of Birth of sister Vedanti is 1945.
Sister Vedanti writes -
Sister Vedanti ([i]in the document[/i]) wrote: I was born in 1945 in Gujarat in a priest, meaning Brahmin family. Mother, Father being religious type.... "
(See the first line in the third paragraph in the attachment).
[The document had been downloaded from the internet. I do not remember when I had downloaded].
Attachments
Sister Vedanti.pdf
(68.47 KiB) Downloaded 38 times

sita
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Re: Some evident errors

Post by sita » 01 Jul 2017

In the Murli, Baba has said that Murlis have started from Karachi and earlier Baba did not used to speak Murlis, he used to write. And about the proof of entrance it is said that when do we know that the Father is in him, it is when he speaks knowledge, because all religious fathers also speak orally. So Murlis have started from Karachi and Brahma Baba moved to Karachi in 1941, but at that time the gathering was not there. In 1947, in the upheavals around the separation many mothers who were forbidden to go to Karachi found themselves released and fled to Karachi, so a gathering was formed. That is why Baba has said in the Murli that when the separation was there, you were also born. It means the gathering was born. But it may also mean about some special soul.

About the taking of birth there is this point. We don't have the original date, but if Murlis rotate in 5 years it must be 1965.

"You had been advised so much to become pure, but you never listened; now you have lost your post. Those who have died in the past, might have grown up, and might have attained the age of 20 & 25. They might also take up this knowledge."[Mu 17-2-75 Pg-1]

But about the other personalities who used to teach even Mama and Baba, we believe that one of them is the Yagya mother. A Yagya mother has to be there since the beginning. Naturally mother will be there before the children. Om Radhe Mama is compared to the river Brahmaputra who comes in the middle and goes in the middle. But about the mother Baba has said that she will sustain the Yagya till the end. So I feel that it was the Yagya mother who left last, and probably left body and took birth in 1947. About the other souls, based on the above Murli point, their birth dates must be around 1940 and 1945.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 02 Jul 2017

...So I feel that it was the Yagya mother who left last, and probably left body and took birth in 1947. About the other souls, based on the above Murli point, their birth dates must be around 1940 and 1945.
39) You did not reply to the point once again.
Sister Vedanti says her DOB was in year 1945. But, PBKs believe she(her soul in her previous birth) left Yagya only in 1947. Am I right?

40) Now, so- you you believe the Yagya mother Gitamata took birth in 1947? [But, DOB of Kamala
Devi is much later, right?]. So- nowhere tallies.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 02 Jul 2017

sita wrote:In the Murli, Baba has said that Murlis have started from Karachi and earlier Baba did not used to write Murlis, he used to write.
41)Typing error?
And about the proof of entrance it is said that when do we know that the Father is in him, it is when he speaks knowledge, because all religious fathers also speak orally.
42) In the 1936 incident, PBKs believe Baba speaks orally, is it not?
Then how can you say that Baba had not spoken orally after that? Baba might have spoken at least occasionally even before 1947. Do you deny the possibility?
So Murlis have started from Karachi and Brahma Baba moved to Karachi in 1941, but at that time the gathering was not there. In 1947, in the upheavals around the separation many mothers who were forbidden to go to Karachi found themselves released and fled to Karachi, so a gathering was formed. That is why Baba has said in the Murli that when the separation was there, you were also born. It means the gathering was born. But it may also mean about some special soul.
43) That is again fine. But, Baba sometimes speaks approximately. Anyhow, if PBKs believe some special soul(?! - whom the Murli point says- they went to stomach of python!)
About the taking of birth there is this point. We don't have the original date, but if Murlis rotate in 5 years it must be 1965.

"You had been advised so much to become pure, but you never listened; now you have lost your post. Those who have died in the past, might have grown up, and might have attained the age of 20 & 25. They might also take up this knowledge."[Mu 17-2-75 Pg-1]
44) So- why do PBKs then accuse BKs here? Some PBKs even say- Sevakram had been murdered. (But, the Murli point clearly says- the mistake was those who had been left.)

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by sita » 02 Jul 2017

42) In the 1936 incident, PBKs believe Baba speaks orally, is it not?
Then how can you say that Baba had not spoken orally after that? Baba might have spoken at least occasionally even before 1947. Do you deny the possibility?
In 1936 Brahma Baba had visions. Visions were there it does not mean entrance was there. And in speaking there must be some new knowledge. We have this Murli point that Baba used to enter these children who used to teach Mama and Baba. If you want to prove Baba used to enter Brahma Baba at that time you have to bring some proofs.
39) You did not reply to the point once again.
Sister Vedanti says her DOB was in year 1945. But, PBKs believe she(her soul in her previous birth) left Yagya only in 1947. Am I right?
We don't believe that the so called Radha bachchi is the Yagya Mata. The Yagya mother will be there before everyone and she will sustain till the end, so she will leave last. Then it is said about those who used to go into trance that they left. And in 1965 their age is said to be 20 and 25, obviously they must have left in 1940 and 1945.
43) That is again fine. But, Baba sometimes speaks approximately. Anyhow, if PBKs believe some special soul(?! - whom the Murli point says- they went to stomach of python!)
Why not? Baba says even very good children are eaten by Maya. If Baba speaks about someone by emerging him he must be special.
40) Now, so- you you believe the Yagya mother Gitamata took birth in 1947? [But, DOB of Kamala
Devi is much later, right?]. So- nowhere tallies.
This question is there, but there could be a birth in between.
44) So- why do PBKs then accuse BKs here? Some PBKs even say- Sevakram had been murdered. (But, the Murli point clearly says- the mistake was those who had been left.)
If there is some clash it is due to impurity. The question is about who is pure and impure. The flames of destruction started from the beginning. And the same fight is going on now as to who is pure and impure.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 02 Jul 2017

In 1936 Brahma Baba had visions. Visions were there it does not mean entrance was there. And in speaking there must be some new knowledge. We have this Murli point that Baba used to enter these children who used to teach Mama and Baba. If you want to prove Baba used to enter Brahma Baba at that time you have to bring some proofs.
45) LLU of PBKs have no bounds. Do not PBKs claim God gave/spoke through Sevakram in 1936?
sita wrote:We don't believe that the so called Radha bachchi is the Yagya Mata.
46) I never said so. So, just again LLU of PBKs.


# Error No. 57) DOB of Mr. Dixit 1940, not 1942?:-
Then it is said about those who used to go into trance that they left. And in 1965 their age is said to be 20 and 25, obviously they must have left in 1940 and 1945.
47) As per PBK philosophy, Mr. Dixit left body in 1942, and the other two mothers left Yagya in 1947 (so leaving body would be definitely after 1947). So- this was the point of argument. which you still did not address. Is it again LLU?

48) And- PBKs claim Mr. Dixit left body in 1942, but you say 1940! So- now two errors!

[49) Or do you believe PBK Radha bachchi left Yagya (and died) in 1945 and PBK Gitamata left Yagya in 1947? Did PBK Gitamata just left Yagya or died in 1947?]
This question is there, but there could be a birth in between.
50) So- you mean to say KD's present birth is third one. First Gitamata, then the in-between one, and third is KD. And, if she leaves the body (as is predicted by Mr. Dixit, so PBK Jagadamba is likely to take FOUR physical births in Conf Age?
If there is some clash it is due to impurity. The question is about who is pure and impure. The flames of destruction started from the beginning. And the same fight is going on now as to who is pure and impure.
51) Speaking lies. The Murli point clearly says- the one who left (whom PBKs claim belong to their group) is the one who had committed mistake.
You had been advised so much to become pure, but you never listened; now you have lost your post. Those who have died in the past, might have grown up, and might have attained the age of 20 & 25. They might also take up this knowledge."[Mu 17-2-75 Pg-1]
But, you avoid to reply and like to argue in twisted manner. It is OK, no problem.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by sita » 02 Jul 2017

[49) Or do you believe PBK Radha bachchi left Yagya (and died) in 1945 and PBK Gitamata left Yagya in 1947? Did PBK Gitamata just left Yagya or died in 1947?]
I am sure I am writing clearly. I will not repeat for a third time.
51) Speaking lies. The Murli point clearly says- the one who left (whom PBKs claim belong to their group) is the one who had committed mistake. But, you avoid to reply and like to argue in twisted manner. It is OK, no problem.
Well, no one was pure then, nor today anyone is pure, everyone will become pure only at the end. The matter is what type of effort one does to become from impure to pure. And there are two types of effort and one is a sanyasi like type and the other is of the household path. And those who are like sanyasi don't have a high vision for those who are householders. They consider themselves pure and see the householder with a low vision. Baba does not see the householders with a low vision, nor he sees sanysis with a high vision, but he shows a path of purity to householders, sanyasis hardly take this knowledge, they will take it only at the end, and when they take it there will be victory. So this conflict of what is purity and what is impurity is there. And Baba has never condemned anyone and everyone falls at some point. The matter is not to lose courage and continue to make effort and the result will be there for sure. So for those who failed, the final result has not come, still it is a time of effort. Those souls whom we consider firm may fall and those whom we consider outsiders may move ahead. We cannot condemn anyone as posts are not declared.


= RESPONSE =

COMPLETE IGNORANCE & ARROGANCE of the BLIND PBKs, and their EQUALLY BLIND bodily guru, -Virendra Dev Dixit!
The TOP-MOST posts, AMONG the WHOLE HUMAN RACE, were ALREADY DECLARED by God, in the BEGINNING ITSELF, to be those of Brahma Baba & Saraswati Mama.
NO OTHER POSTS HAVE BEEN DECLARED, SO FAR!

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 03 Jul 2017

sita wrote:I am sure I am writing clearly. I will not repeat for a third time.
52) Again a lie. But, that is right/OK, what else can PBKs say?! So- PBKs are caught in their own pit of years 1940, 1942, 1945, 1947, etc.

Let us wish good luck to PBKs, as per drama plan, because obviously they are going to play the roles of servants in heaven, and Baba says - in heaven even the servants would be kept in the place of the heart.
So- BKs will have to place even PBKs in their heart (with detachment- nyaaraa- pyaaraa).

'Therey phoolon se bhee pyaar, tere kaanton se bhee pyaar' = I love your/God's flowers, as swell as the thorns.

So- this is only an intellectual debate and discussion with the Murli believers. All the best in drama for all.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by sita » 03 Jul 2017

52) 52) Again a lie. But, that is right/OK, what else can PBKs say?! So- PBKs are caught in their own pit of years 1940, 1942, 1945, 1947, etc.
We are not sure about the original date of the Murli, if it is 1965 or 66. Then 20, 25 are approximate years. But you already caught us, so we cannot move.
Let us wish good luck to PBKs, as per drama plan, because obviously they are going to play the roles of servants in heaven, and Baba says - in heaven even the servants would be kept in the place of the heart.
I cannot decide if you are trying to be funny or you are just arrogant. But as long as we are in your heart we are safe.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 03 Jul 2017

sita wrote:We are not sure about the original date of the Murli, if it is 1965 or 66. Then 20, 25 are approximate years. But you already caught us, so we cannot move.
53) You may try for 1966 as well. Then it will become 1941 and 1946. The PBK Sevakram case would be solved. Then it would be better if PBKs claim Sevakram died in 1941. It comes 5 years (1936 to 1941). Then the DOB of Mr. Dixit as 1st February 1942 (some PBKs say it is 2nd February 1942) will fit OK (since 4 to 5 months there is womb period). But, why (the so-called intelligent Narayan) Mr. Dixit could not realize this, much before, so that the manipulation could have been done earlier?

But now, he has ALREADY put himself in a further fix, by BLATANTLY LYING, that his DOB was actually in June 1942, (he STILL does not seem to know the actual day), and the officially recorded one was false - as a KNEE-JERK REACTION, (to save his DIRTIED FACE), when the matter of INCOMPATIBILITY with the previously declared departure year of Sevakram, and his recorded DOB was brought to his unexpected notice - (see relevant post on this forum, by Arjun) in link - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593&p=49562&hilit=June#p49562

Now, at least PBKs can do this (I am helping you). So- better from now onwards, say- Sevakram died in 1941 Sept/Oct - UNLESS you can come up with a more plausible explanation?

54) Now, regarding the other two sisters, the death date would be 1946. So- obviously, there is a gap of 1 year (ambiguity) since PBKs claim Murli started only after/in 1947 (after the partition).

Actually, I think since Mr. Dixit had stuck to 1947(due to the other related Murli points) , he could/did not think any other way and just stated - Sevakram left body in 1942! - :sad: [Error No. 04 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2593#p48745 ]

55) But, you have written in the BK forum "Sevakram left body in 1960". Then everything fails.
sita [i]alias[/i] saligram wrote: - http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... Ram#p15004 I don't have evidence for this. I have information he died around 1960. His children – Duru (daughter), Gulabrai (son), Riku (daughter), Kala (daughter), Devi (daughter), Mani (daughter), Puran (son).
When you yourself believe Sevakram died in 1960, how can Mr. Dixit be the same soul of Sevakram?

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 03 Jul 2017

56) But, status of PBK Kamala Devi totally fails. Because her number of physical births would be 3 to 4 in Conf. Age.

How PBKs will solve this?

57) And- If PBKs claim Kamala Devi's soul, in her previous birth (the in-between one, what you have just mentioned as a possibility) had come to gyaan, what was her role, and to what date she played role in Yagya from 1965/66 till she left her body? - Just ambiguous.

Also- if KD soul had came to gyaan (in the birth in-between), which is a very short period, what was the purpose? It makes the part of PBK Jagadamba even more silly.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by sita » 04 Jul 2017

Baba has said that some children may take 2-3 births as brahmins.

About Sevakram...if there were prominent children in the Yagya, and they come again into knowledge they will not remain hidden. For example, if it was not for the advanced knowledge, I would never have acknowledged the value of souls like sister Vedanti, because she stays humble and hidden. We believe that the personality from the beginning was connected with the lokik family of Brahma Baba, that is his sister, with whom he used to have entrusted his daughter Dadi Nirmal Shanta.

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by mbbhat » 04 Jul 2017

sita wrote:Baba has said that some children may take 2-3 births as Brahmins.
58) But, regarding kamala Devi- it becomes FOUR! - Since Mr, Dixit has already declared KD is likely to shed her present body too! - Flaw No. 529 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=52859&hilit=Bhakti#p52859
About Sevakram...
59) You did not reply to the point. About year 1960 as date of death of Sevakram? How do PBKs solve this?

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Re: Some evident errors

Post by sita » 04 Jul 2017

58) But, regarding kamala Devi- it becomes FOUR! - Since Mr, Dixit has already declared KD is likely to shed her present body too!
Let's see what happens and then comment.
59) You did not reply to the point. About year 1960 as date of death of Sevakram? How do PBKs solve this?
I am now sure that indeed there is some problem with you understanding my post, and that is you like things clear with yes and no, and when I write more you miss the point. But, please, let me write in my own style and you try to understand. OK I will translate it for you. What the above post meant is that we/I don't believe that it was Sevakram who was that personality, as sevakram was not connected with Brahma Baba's sister. I am sure also this matter was already discussed several times here. It is not that I don't reply to the point. There is some problem with you.

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