Flaws in PBK Philosophy

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sita
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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 24 Aug 2017

---As per PBK view, following Shrimat means not to adulterate Gyan, and following dharna is individual. PBKs believe creating literature, new pictures, songs, etc. are like going against Shrimat. So, PBKs believe anything that is related (DIRECTLY affects the COMMON BELIEF system, or day to day activities of the Yagya) to the Yagya level is Shrimat, and anything that is related to individual level is DHARNA*.
Shrimat means elevated mind, elevated direction. Shrimat means the spiritual knowledge given by the spiritual Father. Shrimat means directions and opinion of one. Dharna means inculcation of purity, following the knowledge in our day to day life.

If you are talking about giving interpretation on the knowledge given by the one Father, our mind is impure, so our interpretations will be impure.

Baba has himself said in the Murli, that many pictures are being created on the direction of Maya and also that the features of Lakshmi and Narayan should not be altered. Certainly nothing in the knowledge should be altered or cut, this is believed by all the religions and they respect so much their scriptures and will never alter them. One may churn on them and if some knowledge emerges and this knowledge is true and beneficial this is like nectar.

Baba has also said about living pictures. He says we have to become examples, such living pictures that the knwoledge should be visible on our face, the lines of fortune, the star on the forehead, the face which is cheerful and full of fragrances of virtues, the future visible from the features, the peace and happiness, the expression which shows we have found something. And Baba has said that we should prepare such pictures which have knowledge written on them. The knowledge should be imprinted in the intellect of these living pictures, they shoul have practically imbibed it, only then there will be service. They should be the form of remembrance and they will give visions of others. On looking them people will see the Father.

Also the badge of Trimurt that Baba has sayd we have to wear it in our pocket for service, we should bring it out and explain, when we will be able to explain it? Only when the Trimurti has sat there in the pocket of our intellect first, if we keep the badge of the Trimurti with us in the pocket of our intellect, if we know who are the living personalities who play the practical roles in the Trimurti we will be able to explain then on the badge.

In the Murli Baba has said to give the introduction of the Father on the Trimurti. Whom we are to point to. The Father is incorporeal, viceless and egoless, it means a complete form. Vishnu is a complete form, but he is a deity. The Father does not become a deity. Shankar is also incomplete, effort making form. It is the Shivling which is the memorial of the incorporeal stage and that shivling is at the same time visible, but because in the incorporela stage one does not have awareness of the organs, thats why the shivling is shown with no organs. And it is mentioned also in the Mahabharata that Krishna also worshipped the ling, you can see the research here:
http://www.mahapashupatastra.com/2017/0 ... olars.html
----PBKs do not show B Baba in their Trimurti picture or the best/first hands in their Vishnu picture. Then how can B Baba be the partner of Mr. Dixit in UNLIMITED way?
It is like Father and son company. In the outside world also the child co-operates the most in the business. The wife is certainly there, but the nature of the mothers and especially the Indian mothers is that they keep themselves behind, they are selfless and don't seek anything for themselves. You will hardly find companies called So-and-so and wife, they are all so-and so and sons.

But you are right, the mother is the first partner and in fact we understand that the real Brahma is in the form of a female and it is a problem between the mother and the Father. But it is said in the Murli that the mother, Father and children all become instrumental in igniting the fire of destruction in the Yagya. When the child becomes like a husband to the mother it is an atrocity. It happens when the Father leaves. The child takes control over the mother.
---But, it fails, as PBKs claim B Baba got the leadership of Yagya only in 1947. Till then (from 1942 till 1947), the two Sisters had been controlling the entire Yagya! This is already put there.
We believe that the entrance in Brahma baba is in 1947 because he becomes 60 years in 1947.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 27 Aug 2017

Reply not to the point again:-
sita wrote:Shrimat means directions and opinion of one....
477) This is what is said. PBK Father's directions have failed here. Who has asked about others' interpretation? Why do you deviate from the point?

Rest of the points are also irrelevant in THIS post.
sita wrote:We believe that the entrance in Brahma Baba is in 1947 because he becomes 60 years in 1947.*
What you believe is not enough. What you believe should be right logically or at least with your own interpretation. But since PBKs claim the the Yagya had been in control of the two mothers from 1942 till 1947, so the pbk Alaf, when he left Yagya in 1942, had not given property to (imaginary) son in 1942.
These are already discussed. Instead of giving replies properly you are just giving your own illogical statements. But that is OK.

*. - you had already been given list of Murli points on entrance of ShivBaba in the Chariot - post no 84 in the other forum. You so far never tried to consider all the Murli points but just take only isolated Murli points.

But by pointing inadequacies in BKs does not certify PBKs to be right. Hope PBKs realize at least now, or if they like to continue with their LLU as usual, it is their wish.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 27 Aug 2017

From here:
http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 110#p11850

In the first point it is said that Baba comes in 60 years. Please note that first it is said that when Baba comes in them in plural, that this one - Brahma Baba surrendered his wealth. For Brahma Baba it is used singular. Brahma Baba surrendered his wealth when Baba came in these ones means in Jagadamba and Jagadpita. It is said that when Baba comes it becomes a vanprastha stage for everyone. So he certainly comes in 60 years and the soul of Jagadpita who is the Parambrahma must have been 60 years. Although Brahma Baba was not 60 years at that time it became vanprasth avastha for him also and for everyone else, according to this Murli point.

Regarding the other points that Brahma Baba left the Gita after the knowledge, we know that in the beginning there use to be clarifications on the Gita.

Baba has said in the Murli that visions is not entrance. It may have occurred to Brahma Baba otherwise, but this is not correct according to the Murli. When he used to have visions, there was no knowledge narrated at that time. Brahma Baba was perplexed and did not know anything, he used to draw pictures on the wall. Baba has said that proof of entrance is narrated knowledge, not visions and it is said that He starts narrating knowledge as soon as He comes.

Regarding the matter about people leaving their homes and going into the gathering this is the case about 1947. At the time of separation many mothers who used to be kept locked managed to escape and gathered in Karachi.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 28 Aug 2017

On the topic about the pictures -

All these pictures of yours are meaningful. None of the picture is meaningless. No one can understand them until you explain to them. The one who explains is the one Father Himself, the intelligent and Knowledgeful One. (Mu. 01.01.75)

These pictures etc. are prepared only by the directions of the Father. Baba used to have the pictures prepared through divine visions (divya dristhi). Some keep preparing pictures according to their own intellect as well. (Mu. 1.1.75)

​Arey, the Father Himself has prepared these pictures. If you remove the inscriptions from the pictures, you appear to be damn fools. (Mu. 30.4.71)

​Numerous pictures have been prepared on demoniac directions. (Mu. 08.05.74, end of the middle part of pg.1)

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 30 Aug 2017

sita wrote:From here:
http://www.brahmakumarisforum.net/chat/ ... 110#p11850

In the first point it is said that Baba comes in 60 years. Please note that first it is said that when Baba comes in them in plural, that this one - Brahma Baba surrendered his wealth. For Brahma Baba it is used singular.
478) PBK FALSE PROPAGANDA (FP) of singular and plural are already proved to be wrong here. Flaw No. 368 to 370 - viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51951&hilit=singular#p51951
Regarding the other points that Brahma Baba left the Gita after The Knowledge, we know that in the beginning there use to be clarifications on the Gita.[/b]
479) What do you mean by this? Are you saying the B baba (or say PBK Baba- take anyone you like) did not leave Gita in 1936?
[Actually, it is simple to understand. B baba had lost the faith in the lowkik Gita (which he used to have it earlier) . But, you like to twist the Murli point. But, if you like to twist, explain it properly. ]. Else your comment has no value.


480) Definitely, just vision is not entrance. The Murli point clearly says- soon after the vision, entrance had happened. It does not say- it takes 10 years to enter after the occurrence of vision. So- only loose arguments.


481) Murli point clearly says- when he used to draw circles, entrance had happened. So, your claim again goes against Murli point.
482) There had been bhatti of 14 years. So, Before the bhatti itself, children had left home. So- your point is again weak.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 30 Aug 2017

482) There had been bhatti of 14 years. So, Before the bhatti itself, children had left home. So- your point is again weak.
The bhatti was there in Karachi only. In fact the gathering was formed whilst Brahma Baba was in Kashmir for one year with his family and they communicated through letters. Before Karachi the name was Om mandli and there was a school for children called Om Nivas. The people who moved to Karachi initially were few whole families. It is not a matter of running away from the family. There was also mainly young daughters dedicated to the institution from their families.

Then in Karachi the name got changed to Brahma Kumaris Vidhyalya, Om mandli was finished. In OM mandli there was 3 A for Brahma U for Vishnu and M for Mahesh. Because Baba has said that when I come i certainly need a Trimurti. So this is the instance from the scriptures that Brahma created the world, but did not like it and destroyed it, and created it again and again destroyed it, and a third time and again destroyed it, and he left it on the fourth time. So the initial gathering was Om mandli, then it becomes Brahma Kumari in Karachi.

from here
viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2099&p=51951&hilit=singular#p51953

Regarding the matter that Brahma will finish his 100 years in Avyakt and how can we claim about Brahma after 1976, we understand that Avyakt does not mean without a body, but Avyakt means subtle stage of the mind. It is said that we ourselves play the part of Brahma Vishnu and Shankar. The role of Shankar is a subtle one, he does not come to this world with his mind and intellect. When in 1976 the role of Shankar was revealed it is because, Baba has declared the end of the world for 1976, so one such soul who is the seed of the world like tree detaches himself with his mind from the old world like tree to give birth to the new tree. So if with one's own mind one does not reside in the old world, the world of the body, bodily relations and objects, and if one resides in the churning the points of knowledge and in remembrance this is a subtle to incorporeal stage. This is also the meaning of the name Narayan - the one who resides/lives, whose home is within the waters of knowledge. This is also the meaning of Bharat - the one who resides in the light of knowledge. So this soul, you can call it also subtle Brahma, because it is Brahma who becomes Vishnu (Narayan) and the angelic stage of Shankar is the one in between. So he is the number one Brahma for whom it is said Parambrahma Parameeshvar. There is also confirmation from the Avyakt Vanis that the role of Brahma is going on and will go on till the end, just the place has changed.

Regarding the singular and plural you have demonstrated some instances when they don't apply. I did not look them closely, but it is possible that there are such instances. There are also some mistakes in the Murlis like maybe in typing and also some references of Brahma Baba interfering, but this will be corrected, we have the guarantee.

We understand that there are 3 types of references in the Murli. One is "you" and it refers to the one sitting in front for whom the Murli is narrated. The other is "this one" - referring to Brahma Baba who hears the Murli in between, and the third one is "they" which most often refer to the outside world.

Sometimes also when in the Murli it is said "these ones" it refers to Lakshmi and Narayan, and when it is said those one it refers to ShivBaba.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 31 Aug 2017

More of pbk LIES, KANRAS, and INVERTED intellect:-.
Om Mandli is finished/destroyed.
483) OM is not finished. It is still there. Don't we say Om Shanti?
And logically, EVEN Mandli (mandli = circle = gathering) is there! Externally, only name has changed. And there are many names for the Yagya.
A - Brahma , U - Vishnu , M - Mahesh.
484) Baba has clearly said OM means I/SELF. You are ignoring the main points and just giving KANRAS (juggling exercise of your bodily guru)!

And even alphabetically, they are NOT tallying.

Baba says - KANRAS are sweet only up to years - NO PRACTICAL SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE!

As usual, PBKs do not argue on the right direction, they try to deviate from the point and give their own lecture, after having been indoctrinated by their bodily guru.

485) Regarding Singular/plural, your arguments are totally invalid. Because there are SEVERAL such points.
To claim B Baba interfering in between is also just foolishness. Because no one will try to insert GRAMMATIC mistakes PURPOSEFULLY, that too, in SO MANY places. So, by all or any means, the whole of PBK arguments are weak. If PBKs like to stick to loose things firmly, rather than important things/points, it ONLY PROVES that their intellect is not only LLU, but also COMPLETELY INVERTED.

---486) Then the result is - when PBKs have no valid points, they finally use the HIGHEST authorities ShivBaba and B Baba as scapegoats. They do not have any other means to prove their points.

487) BTW, PBKs claim B Baba interferes in Mr Dixit even now. So why no such GRAMMATIC errors in the speech of Mr. Dixit have been highlighted so far? - :laugh:
Then in Karachi the name got changed to Brahma Kumaris Vidhyalya, Om mandli was finished. In OM mandli there was 3 A for Brahma U for Vishnu and M for Mahesh. Because Baba has said that when I come i certainly need a Trimurti
.
488) As per PBK theory, PBK trimurtis had been finished before Karachi itself. PBKs believe in 1942, their Mahesh had been finished. So, is it not a lie to say- Trimurti had been finished only in 1947? If they believe Om Mandli name existed till 1947, and one of their Trimurti had died in 1942 itself, their interpretation of
"A U M" goes wrong by default itself.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 31 Aug 2017

485) Regarding Singular/plural, your arguments are totally invalid. Because there are SEVERAL such points.
To claim B Baba interfering in between is also just foolishness. Because no one will try to insert GRAMMATIC mistakes PURPOSEFULLY, that too, in SO MANY places. So, by all or any means, the whole of PBK arguments are weak. If PBKs like to stick to loose things firmly, rather than important things/points, it ONLY PROVES that their intellect is not only LLU, but also COMPLETELY INVERTED.
I agree that Brahma Baba interfering or mistakes is easy explanation. I haven't gone well through the points you have posted, maybe I could come with some explanation. But it seems you also agree that there is some meaning of this singular/plural, because why would Baba use it in such a way.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 31 Aug 2017

sita wrote:I agree that Brahma Baba interfering or mistakes is easy explanation. I haven't gone well through the points you have posted, maybe I could come with some explanation. But it seems you also agree that there is some meaning of this singular/plural, because why would Baba use it in such a way.
489) I do not agree with what you feel.

But, there can be some reasons- one is- Murli is dance of ShivBaba. So- it should not be straight forward or rigid*. It will be like boring. So- ShivBaba would/should speak in such a way that even if a Murli is read hundreds of time, it will be enjoyable. When two lovers or friends chat with each other, if they speak grammatically, it would look silly.

Another point is- Gyan is also gupt/incognito. So, Baba may speak in lower level which makes it gupt even from the external view point as well.

*Moreover, God is also ego-less.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 01 Sep 2017

489) I do not agree with what you feel.

But, there can be some reasons- one is- Murli is dance of ShivBaba. So- it should not be straight forward or rigid. It will be like boring. So- ShivBaba would/should speak in such a way that even if a Murli is read hundreds of time, it will be enjoyable. When two lovers or friends chat with each other, if they speak grammatically, it would look silly.
It is also an easy explanation that it is just for fun.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 02 Sep 2017

It is also an easy explanation that it is just for fun.
490) Fun is better than misinterpreting and CRAFTILY MISLEADING EVERYONE, in the name of God.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 02 Sep 2017

490) Fun is better than misinterpreting and CRAFTILY MISLEADING EVERYONE, in the name of God.
Whatever you give like explanation is also nothing else but interpretation. Whether it is correct or not is a different matter. You have applied similar way of interpreting the Murlis on many occasions that the essence of it is that we should not care a lot about what Baba says, he just speaks something, sometimes something else. Just like recently Avyakt BapDada was speaking about Delhi, that everyone has to come to Delhi etc., but the Seniors were acting as if BapDada has come in some confusion, his soul has grown old and he has started forgetting...."No, Baba you are siting at Mount Abu, you are not sitting in Delhi" (according to the understanding of the BK Seniors).

For this, in the message of 23.7.17, Avyakt BapDada, has said that some act as if they have become Father of even the Father:

"Yes, because today, the children have a lot of knowledge in them, haven’t they? But it is not the Father’s [knowledge], it is their own knowledge. They consider themselves to be more knowledgeable than even the Father. Some have been [in knowledge] for twenty years, some thirty years, some forty years, so they think, ‘we have become the Father of even the Father’. But they don’t think, the Father is anyway the Father. You have become what you are because of the Father."

viewtopic.php?f=39&t=2683#p53291

Baba has said that the soul cannot become pure by bathing in the Ganges, Baba speaks about the unlimited Ganges, He says that you souls are rivers. Whatever knowledge people may have and give, this is like water of knowledge. This knowledge has emerged and merges in the ocean, but by bathing in it we cannot become pure. By churning it, nectar of knowledge does not come out. Lot of dirt of body-consciousness, of vices and of human opinion is also there collected in the waters of the rivers. We become pure by bathing in the ocean of knowledge who is the Supreme Soul. By churning on that knowledge, nectar of immortality emerges, points are clarified and the soul becomes stable in faith. By diving into the ocean we find jewels. Whatever interpretations people make, they make it with a viscous mind, now all are vicious. By listening to it we degrade and by listening to many we become adulterated, because each soul has his own opinion.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 06 Sep 2017

sita wrote:Whatever you give like explanation is also nothing else but interpretation. Whether it is correct or not is a different matter.
491) The point here is- It is a CLEAR failure of PBK Guru, as well as every PBK. Every PBK has fallen into the pit by using the name Sevakram, and countless blunders have already been shown to you at various threads in the forum.

You have been falling into pit now and then. Recently, you acted as if you have found a gem by the term Jagadguru of UP! - :laugh: but you are still back at square one.

By claiming my comments too as only a type of interpretation, or fun, etc, you are showing your own LLU. Do you think by pointing mistakes in any BK, it certifies that you/PBKs are on right path?
Just like recently Avyakt Bap-Dada was speaking about Delhi, that everyone has to come to Delhi etc., but the Seniors were acting as if Bap-Dada has come in some confusion, his soul has grown old and he has started forgetting...."No, Baba you are siting at Mount Abu, you are not sitting in Delhi" (according to the understanding of the BK Seniors).
492) Again just LLU(Low Level of Understanding) of the so-called Gyani tu atmas. BY quoting some mistakes of some/one senior BK, do you think ALL the BKs have believed him*?

But, all the PBKs including PBK Guru himself have used the name Sevakram and followed other errors BLINDLY for several decades.
For this, in the message of 23.7.17, Avyakt Bap-Dada has said that some act as if they have become Father of even the Father:
493) It is FAKE message. Of course, prepared by some BK to warn BKs. So- neither good, nor bad.

But, you, or almost EVERY ACTIVE PBK, fully behave AS IF superior to ShivBaba, clearly shown in this forum too.
-----Even now, you have acted here as well as in the other topic in similar way-
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2552&p=53300#p53300
"Yes, because today, the children have a lot of knowledge in them, haven’t they? But it is not the Father’s [knowledge], it is their own knowledge. They consider themselves to be more knowledgeable than even the Father. Some have been [in knowledge] for twenty years, some thirty years, some forty years, so they think, ‘we have become the Father of even the Father’. But they don’t think, the Father is anyway the Father. You have become what you are because of the Father."
* 494) Have you not heard of the Murli point saying- "You will see- those who have been in gyaan for 30 to 40 years also will leave one day. "

----There are lots of warnings to BKs in Murlis. Do not you know them? Do such mistakes committed by some BKs prove God comes in Kampil? - :laugh: Is this the way of PBK level of understanding/arguments?
Baba has said that the soul cannot become pure by bathing in the Ganges, ...

... By listening to it we degrade and by listening to many we become adulterated, because each soul has his own opinion.
495) Just kanras as usual, but it also has some points, that one should think/churn individually also, or have good level of dharna and Yaad.

496) But, what you have said, you and every PBK, have failed as already put above. So- your own claims are just like the parrot sitting on the tap and saying- do not sit on the tap! Is it not?

**497) - In that Avyakt Murli, BapDada had said- "I had come in Delhi" - mostly to draw attention of the children towards Delhi, since that would be the capital. So- in future there may be something change/new in service, especially in Delhi.
[The BK brother might not have realized it. Of course, it was wrong to interfere with BapDada. He should not have had interfered.
----But, it does not prove that every BK had been wrong. Most of the BKs had not been satisfied by his interference.

But, on the other hand, EVERY ACTIVE PBK had used the name Sevakram for many many years, and followed all the countless errors.
----Not only that- Most of the PBKs are STILL following many of those errors EVEN NOW! [Since they are exposed only in this forum]. So- the PBKs who have not read this forum are likely to continue with the same errors.

Dear sweet child of ShivBaba,
Hope your intellect would be able to come out of its usual LLU at one or other point of time. Anyhow, those who read this, will understand this. Let others get benefit, or you yourself at some time in the future - one can always hope for the best for everyone. All the best.

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by sita » 06 Sep 2017

It's a good surprise to hear that BKs don't approve of interfering with BapDada. But why is the Avyakt BapDada message from 23.7.17 called fake?

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Re: Flaws in PBK Philosophy

Post by mbbhat » 07 Sep 2017

sita wrote:It's a good surprise to hear that BKs don't approve of interfering with Bap-Dada.
498) You are expressing your LLU again and again. I mean majority of BKs will not approve anyone else interfering, when BapDada speaks Murli.
But, it seems that nothing sits in your head. In AIVV, during the so-called clarification classes, there is usual Q &A discussion where there is interaction with Mr. Dixit. (but Mr. Dixit sometimes gives vague replies and avoids answering! So, it is not impartial/clean - :laugh: ) . So, you ASSUME yourself as if BKs also like to interfere with BapDada! You have assumed many things about BKs- based on your perception not with the fact or truth. Already shown to you in the same topic.
So, you have once again proved that- your perception is totally wrong, foolish or ignorant as well as biased/twisted one.
But why is the Avyakt Bap-Dada message from 23.7.17 called fake?
499) If you listen to the audio, the difference in the voice can be realized. Also from some sentences one can easily understand. If you did not get any sort of doubt, it definitely reflects your LLU. Did you not get any doubt? However, it has to be appreciated that it is a very good MIMIC!

Also- Why is there no video of the message? And the BLIND PBKs have STILL NOT realized that the message is TOTALLY AGAINST PBK philosophy. It is -Virendra Dev Dixit who has been projecting himself as 'Parmatma' & 'Bhagwan', by TWISTING the meaning of these words, and providing PERVERTED (MIS)INTERPRETATIONS, thus considering himself to be the Father of even the REAL 'Alokik' Father, Brahma Baba, and the REAL 'Parlokik' Father, ShivBaba!

See- most of the times, PBKs easily get such things from BKWSU. It implies there are some traitors in BKWSU. And, if PBKs do such things, it is perfectly right in drama. Because Baba has said- obstacles should come in drama, then only the marks will have value. And, the warnings should also be given. Let it be true(directly from BapDada), or fake ones, as per Drama.

500) The message is not circulated to BK centres. But, still PBKs got the message. Because PBKs have links with some BKs in BKWSU. All these show that PBKs are interested in such nefarious activities, as well as fully dependent on BKWSU for their service, and FALSE PROPAGANDA (FP).

And, it is expected that the braahmin tree would shake 3 times. First during beggary part, second during 1976, and third is yet to come. So, we may witness- some BKs, even Seniors, will leave Yagya or their weakness would be disclosed and will lose their position. Some will realize and change for better. Let us see that in future.

But, that is nothing new. As Baba himself as said-
----"Yuddh may maharathi ke maharathi bhee mar jaate hain, pyaadon kaa toh hisaab hee naheen. =
In war, even maharathis die. There is hardly any account of the soldiers. "

----As well as - "Braahmanon may agar 4 nikaltey hain, toh 10 aayenge. =
If 4 BKs leave/fail the Yagya, 10 will come".

So, drama may show new things. But, none of these prove God is with PBKs. Good.

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