Yagya history

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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arjun
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Post by arjun » 27 Feb 2007

Brother John,

Om Shanti. I feel that the BK course, as we know today, was not developed in a few days or months but over several years. Even the pictures were developed at different points of time. So, it is obvious that the BK course might have developed fully only in the 1960s after at least five pictures (Trimurti, Cycle, Lakshmi-Narayan, Ladder and World Tree) were prepared.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 27 Feb 2007

arjun wrote:So, it is obvious that the BK course might have developed fully only in the 1960s after at least five pictures (Trimurti, Cycle, Lakshmi-Narayan, Ladder and World Tree) were prepared.
We also used to use the poster of the soul with three parts and the body as the car.

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Yagya history as available in Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis

Post by arjun » 28 Feb 2007

Dear All,

Om Shanti. There has been a lot of discussion on this forum regarding the need to document the Yagya history. Since nothing about the Yagya history can be more authentic than the words of Father Shiv spoken through Brahma Baba in the Sakar Murlis and the words of Avyakt BapDada spoken through BK Gulzar Dadiji, I had been contemplating since a long time to compile in a thread all the quotations from the Murlis and Avyakt Vanis related to the history of the Yagya.

Other members can also contribute to this thread by surfing through the archive of Murlis and Avyakt Vanis available on this website and quoting the points related to Yagya history in this thread. But they may kindly present the words of Murlis/Avyakt Vanis in red if possible/if convenient. Otherwise, they should at least try to mention within the brackets as to whether you are quoting a Sakar Murli or an Avyakt Vani and its date and page number

I was in a dilemma as to keep this thread in the Commonroom or the PBKs section. So if Admin. wishes he can shift this thread to the PBKs section.

Regards,
On Godly Service,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 28 Feb 2007

“Vishesh aatmaon kee sabha may baithey ho na. Aur group bhi vishesh hai. Dono hee gaddi vaaley hain. Ek praveshata kee gaddi doosri raajgaddi. Vah hai rajya kee chaabi milney kee gaddi (Calcutta) aur vah hai rajya karney kee gaddi (Delhi) toh dono hee gaddi ho gayi na. Toh dono kee visheshata hui na. Chaabi nahi milti toh rajya bhi nahi kartey.” (BKs dwara prakashit Avyakt Vani taareekh 6.11.81, pg.116)

“You are sitting in a gathering of special souls, isn’t it? And the group is also special. Souls of both kinds of thrones are sitting. One is a throne of entry (of Shiva into Prajapita Brahma) and the other is the Rajgaddi (royal throne). That is a throne of getting the key to kingdom (Calcutta) and that is a throne of governance (Delhi). So both happen to be thrones, isn’t it? So both are special, isn’t it? If the key wasn’t received then it would not be possible to rule.” (Avyakt Vani dated 6.11.81, pg.116 published by BKs).

BKs say that the entry of Shiv into Brahma (Dada Lekhraj) took place in Hyderabad, Sindh. He just had a shop at Calcutta, which was looked after by his partner. Then why has Baba described Calcutta as the throne of entry of Shiva (into Prajapita Brahma) and as the throne of receiving the key to kingdom?

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Post by bansy » 28 Feb 2007

I was in a dilemma as to keep this thread in the Commonroom or the PBKs section.
This is good idea Arjunbhai, if the quotes are from the Sakar Murlis and Avyakt Vanis, this forum would do fine wouldn't you agree folks ?

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Post by john » 28 Feb 2007

ArjunBhai.

This is a very good idea. If it is to be in the commonroom and I have no objections, then I think it is important to clarify where the words in brackets came from i.e. the words (Calcutta) and (Delhi) and any other words in brackets.

Have they been added by BKs or PBKs or were they part of the original Murli?

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Post by arjun » 28 Feb 2007

I think it is important to clarify where the words in brackets came from i.e. the words (Calcutta) and (Delhi) and any other words in brackets. Have they been added by BKs or PBKs or were they part of the original Murli?
The words 'Calcutta' and 'Delhi' appear in the Hindi text also. So these have been added by the BKs in the original Avyakt Vani published by the BKs in Hindi.

As regards the English version it has been translated by a PBK. The words written within brackets after 'entry' and 'rajgaddi' have been added either to give the meaning of the Hindi word or to make the meaning of that word more clear.

Most of the English translations produced in this thread by PBKs would have been translated by PBKs only. If the official English version of BKs is being produced, it would be mentioned clearly.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by abrahma kumar » 28 Feb 2007

Am happy to join in these efforts. Is there any idea on how to handle the 'translation mishaps' that Arjun Bhai amongst others has alterted us to from time to time?

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Post by arjun » 01 Mar 2007

Abrahmakumar wrote:Is there any idea on how to handle the 'translation mishaps' that Arjun Bhai amongst others has alterted us to from time to time?
Since you would be quoting only the English version of the Murlis/Avyakt Vanis, we can know about the mishaps in translation only when we get the Hindi versions also of the same. Until then we have to believe that whatever BKs are providing us in English is correct translation.

Members can also help by copying Murli points related to the history of the Yagya that have already been quoted in various threads of this forum/xbkchat forum whenever they find any and paste them here.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by andrey » 01 Mar 2007

Avyakt Vani 31.12.05

"the speciality of the Eastern Zone is that the sun rises in the East. It rises in the East, does it not? And the Sun of Knowledge also entered in the East."

And Sindh is on the west.

If we could also quote by heart i would like to mention that Brahma Baba used to draw circles on the wall on the bank of the river Ganga in Benares.

I have also definitely found in Sakar Murli about souls who used to teach Mama and baba.

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Post by arjun » 01 Mar 2007

"Tum bachhon nay toh swarg ka saakshaatkaar kiya hai toh vinaash ka bhi kiya hai. Baba ko bhi saakshatkaar hua tab toh choda parantu us samay itna gyaan nahee tha, jitna abhi hai. Raat-din ka farq hai gyaan may. Pehley toh bilkul hee raat may thay, sarvavyaapi ka gyaan detey thay, har yek manushya khud khudaa hai. Pehley-pehley yah paai-paisey ka gyaan tha, abhi samajhtey hain vah toh wrong tha." (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli taareekh 12.12.05, page 3)

“You children have had the divine visions of the heaven as well as the destruction. Baba also renounced only when he had divine visions, but there was not as much knowledge available at that time, as is available now. There is a difference of day and night between the knowledge (available at that time and available now). First we were in complete night (i.e. darkness of ignorance); we used to give the knowledge of omnipresence; every human being is Khuda (God) himself. First of all there was this knowledge worth paai -paise (the smallest unit of Indian currency soon after the independence of India); now we feel that it was wrong.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.12.05, page 3 published by BKs)

- It is mentioned in the Murlis repeatedly that there is neither knowledge and Yoga nor any benefit in divine visions. It proves that the soul which makes higher efforts without having had any divine visions is greater. So then Brahma Baba, who, as per the above Murli “renounced only when he had divine visions”, be the number one in the Brahmin family?
- It is told by the Brahmakumaris in respect of the soul of Krishna, i.e. Brahma Baba that he is the number one soul, while it is told about the soul of Ram that it failed. But in the path of worship Ram is said to be Patit-Paavan (purifier of the sinful) and Maryadas Purushottam (the one who becomes highest among all in following the code of conduct). It may be possible that in the beginning of the Yagya, the soul playing the role of Ram failed as “there was not as much knowledge available at that time, as is available now”. So can’t that soul take rebirth and enter the path of knowledge and become number one? Can the examination (or test) at the beginning of the Yagya be termed as the final examination (or test)?


Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by john » 01 Mar 2007

First we were in complete night (i.e. darkness of ignorance); we used to give the knowledge of omnipresence; every human being is Khuda (God) himself. First of all there was this knowledge worth paai -paise (the smallest unit of Indian currency soon after the independence of India); now we feel that it was wrong.” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 12.12.05, page 3 published by BKs)
Does this mean at the beginning of the Yagya the BKs taught omnipresence and that every human being is God?

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Revised Knowledge

Post by joel » 01 Mar 2007

John wrote:Does this mean at the beginning of the Yagya the BKs taught omnipresence and that every human being is God?
Yes, that is correct.

I heard that Jagdish Chander Hassija once asked Brahma Baba, "What if we find that something of Gyan is wrong?". BB's answer, the story went, was "Then, we'll have to change the Gyan."

The BKs have certainly been open in stating that their spiritual belief system has changed gradually over time. It is right there in the Murlis, as quoted above.

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Re: Revised Knowledge

Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Mar 2007

joel wrote:I heard that Jagdish Chander Hassija once asked Brahma Baba, "What if we find that something of Gyan is wrong?". Brahma Baba's answer, the story went, was "Then, we'll have to change the Gyan."

The BKs have certainly been open in stating that their spiritual belief system has changed gradually over time. It is right there in the Murlis, as quoted above.
Personally, "openness" would go as far as providing a clear documentation, and justification, of the changes and allowing public access to those teachings.

There is a very good yukti of telling a tiny truth to hide a great big lie. Oh yes, "we have always been open about saying that our spiritual belief system has evolved" ...

Great. Shuts up 9/10th of the population. So ... let us see the documentation of those changes and examine why.

The evolution (for which read re-writing) of their history is a little bit harder to justify. And is rife as the originals all die off.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 02 Mar 2007

I am confused and somewhat dazed.

Are we saying that there is documented proof that those BKWSU published God's words that we read are not 'final' and 'absolute'?

Are the Spiritual theories and assessment of World History and Geography presented in the Murli is subject to 'revision' based on the emergence of new 'information'?

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