Are there limitations on the Ocean of Knowledge?

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jim
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Post by jim » 30 May 2006

John said
think the meaning was that even if you haven't got a very clever mind you can still follow Gyan(to a point) and have remembrance.
Also maybe that cleverness used in the wrong way can be used negatively and therefore it is not a sure or complete sign of a souls progress.
I agree. I know that I have had a tendency to pursue knowledge in an academic way. To ask questions because there was a loose end like a researcher - rather than finding out enough to make my belief firm (as to the truth of Gyan and who is the permanent Chariot).

The problem is, what is enough for now, maybe not be enough for later - and later there will be no-one to give answers.

Jim

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john
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Post by john » 30 May 2006

Jim
The leaders of each religious branch will churn on the subjects of interest to their "flock" and explain accordingly - in whatever language is required.
I am only talking about the knowledge available as given out to PBKs through Chariot of Virenda Dixit. Your point of other religious leaders, be it BK ex-PBK or whatever is moot in this context.
Im talking about what is said in Hindi to PBKs being available to English speaking PBKs or anyone who is interested

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john
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Post by john » 30 May 2006

Jim

I agree
The problem is, what is enough for now, maybe not be enough for later - and later there will be no-one to give answers.
Questions should be asked and where possible answers given.
Actually if I ask a question of a PBK and they don't know the answer and say so I have respect for that, also if I ask a question of a PBK it will be in the context of what they say they know about.
If I want to know about other religious leader souls and their take on Gyan I will endeavour to ask their followers.
Jim wrote:I agree. I know that I have had a tendency to pursue knowledge in an academic way. To ask questions because there was a loose end like a researcher - rather than finding out enough to make my belief firm (as to the truth of Gyan and who is the permanent Chariot).
Anyone who has read the biography of Virenda Dixit will know he was a researcher and a very meticulous one. He applied his skills to a deep study of Murli making sure he read all the available Murlis.

From biography of Virenda Dixit
ShivBaba had alerted about such behavior in his Murlis which appeared in a revised Murli dated 20-2-86, pg-3 that ".Everything is based on Murli. If you don’t get Murli how will you get Srimat (Godly direction)? Not that only one sister (Brahmani) should narrate the Murli. Anyone can read out the Murli for others."

Apart from this, in the revised Murli dated 22-12-81 its printed that "every student is entitled to read the Baba’s Murli that’s released. Those who have an interest to read Murli will read the Murli 3-4 times without fail. One should not understand anything except Murli. If anyone reads Murli 5-8 times
So he is quoting ShivBaba saying Murlis should be available to everyone.

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Post by pbktrinityshiva » 01 Jun 2006

Just an interesting note, when i spoke with Baba in person i asked him "Baba, How many births have I taken in foreign lands?".

His reply made me chuckle. "However long it takes for you to learn Hindi that long you spent in foreign lands."

Cryptic but also excellent motivation to start learning Hindi and make efforts. When it is understood that a year now represents 200 years (i think) in the broad drama of 5000 years.

Om Shanti

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Post by arjun » 01 Jun 2006

Dear John,
Om Shanti. Since the English speaking PBKs were very few in numbers earlier, the English translations were sparse, but since the last few years a lot of PBK literature and ShivBaba's clarification Murlis have been translated into English and English translations of the latest Murlis are sent to the English speaking/net-savvy PBKs on regular basis with the approval of Baba. So, it is not true that the English speaking PBKs are basing their faith only on the limited pool of English translations.
Of course, whoever strives to learn Hindi will get to hear the maximum number of Murlis. However, the inheritance is based not just on the quantum of Murlis listened to by a soul, but on the basis of the sincere efforts made to imbibe whatever little Godly knowledge that has been heard and on the basis of remembrance and faith.
With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

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atma
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Post by atma » 01 Jun 2006

Bhai Arjun,

This is what impresses me so much that information sent out from the Godly university is not sent out on a whim it is carefully inspected and with Baba's approval so there is little chance of manimat.

Many Bhai's are doing such wonderful work in translating VCD's etc. for the non-Hindi speaking soul these are ever so powerful.

I enjoy them very much.

atma

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Always think that it is ShivBaba who speaks

Post by arjun » 03 Jun 2006

Om Shanti. I have recently come across a Murli point from a revised Sakar Murli published by the BKs, which is very much relevant to this topic.
The Murli point is as follows:

"Father says – I speak through the body of this Brahma. I am only responsible for this child. You always think that it is ShivBaba who speaks. He teaches. You must observe ShivBaba only; you must not observe him (i.e. Brahma).” (Revised Sakar Murli dated 06.04.05, pg 3 published by BKs, spoken by Father Shiv through Dada Lekhraj, alias Brahma Baba)"

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 06 Jun 2006

Dear Kurosh Bhai,
Om Shanti. I am reproducing below the email that I sent to Baba and the reply received from him along with the draft English translation. The email is in blue letters and the replies in red letters.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Om Shanti. BK Khurosh Bhai has posted the following questions on http://www.brahmakumaris.info/ :
1. Why is our communication with ShivBaba subject to the limitations of his corporeal medium? For.e.g. why does He not guess the questions arising in our mind and reply accordingly?
-------Because the soul which plays the role of Bhagwaan is not a thought-reader (jaani-jaananhaar). Why is there a need for a translator for that?
2. Which among the following is correct about the answers that are received from Shiv? ---- It is the soul of Shiv only who gives the answer through the corporeal body.
a) The answer is given by Shiv and the answer is spoken through the mouth of the corporeal medium.
b) The answer is given by the corporeal medium, who has the best communication with Shiv.
c) The answer is given by the corporeal medium or Shiv and we cannot distinguish because ShivBaba comes and goes without anyone being able to discern.
d) It doesn't matter who gives the answer because Shiv and his corporeal medium are the same entity


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Om Shanti. http://www.brahmakumaris.info/ par BK Khurosh Bhai nay nimnalikhit prashna kiye hain:
1. ShivBaba say hamaara communication (sanchaar) saakaar maadhyam kee limitations ke kaaran seemit kyon hota hai? Jaisey ki voh hamaarey man ka prashna swayam bhaamp kar jawaab kyon nahee deta?
-------kyun ki bhagwan partdhari jani jananhar nehi hai . Uskay liye Translator ki jaroorat kyon padti hai?

2. Shiv say jo uttar miltey hain uskay baarey may nimnalikhit may say kaunsi baat theek hai:-------uttar Shiv ke soul hi deti hai Sakar taan dwara .
a) uttar Shiv detey hain aur uttar Sakar madhyam ke mukh say bola jaata hai.
b) uttar saakaar maadhyam dwara diye jaatey hain jiska connection Shiv say sabsey achha hai.
c) uttar saakaar maadhyam ya Shiv dwara diye jaatey hain aur ham bata nahee saktey kyonki Shiv ke aaney-jaaney ka pataa nahee chalta
d) uttar kaun deta hai is say farq nahee padta kyonki Shiv aur Sakar maadhyam ek hee hai.

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 07 Jun 2006

Dear John Bhai,
Om Shanti. You wrote:
"I was fiddling with an online messenger the other day and it had it's own translators, such as English-> German.....German-> English. So you type in your native language and it translates your message into another language.
I haven't tested it on any non English speakers to see how accurate it is, but it does work pretty quick.
I wonder if anyone has used an online translator for Hindi Murlis with any success."

I have had the oppurtunity of working with a software that translates from English to Hindi, but the rate of success is very less. And that too in case of a limited domain of few standard sentences where some parts of the sentence like the name, year, date etc. would change in the different texts. This is a software named Mantra being developed by an oranization named C-DAC working under the Government of India. The name of its website is http://www.cdac.in/ . I don't think there is any organization that is working to develop software for translation from Hindi to English. The C-DAC (located at Pune near Bombay) is even developing another softwere named vachantar through which it is possible to give dictation in Hindi to the computer on microphone, something which is in existence in other languages including English since a long time I suppose (the dragon software etc.)

With regards,
On Godly service,
Arjun

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Post by khormozian » 28 Jun 2006

arjun wrote:2. Which among the following is correct about the answers that are received from Shiv? ---- It is the soul of Shiv only who gives the answer through the corporeal body.
Hi Arjun
If I understand the response correctly, the implication is that everything which comes from the corporeal body of Virendra Dev Dixit originates from Shiva's soul. Which also implies that nothing which comes from the corporeal body of Virendra Dev Dixit originates from Virendra Dev Dixit's soul. Is that the way you understood the response?

Regards, Kurosh

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 30 Jun 2006

Hi Arjun
If I understand the response correctly, the implication is that everything which comes from the corporeal body of Virendra Dev Dixit originates from Shiva's soul. Which also implies that nothing which comes from the corporeal body of Virendra Dev Dixit originates from Virendra Dev Dixit's soul. Is that the way you understood the response?

Regards, Kurosh
Dear Kurosh Bhai,
Om Shanti. The above response means that whatever answers are received are from the Supreme Soul Shiv only, but we have to keep in mind that in the body of Shankar there are three souls that play their parts. One is the soul of Ram (Virendra Dev Dixit), another is the soul of Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani) and the third is the Supreme Soul Shiv.
As per the advance knowledge we believe that whenever Supreme Soul is narrating the Murlis, it is the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) which reads out the printed Murlis/Avaykta Vanis which are to be clarified. The clarifications are given by Father Shiv, while the soul of Ram always remains in remembrance.
So, the above response does not mean that whatever emerges from the mouth of Shankar (Virendra Dev Dixit) is from Father Shiv, but the soul of Brahma Baba (Lekhraj Kirpalani) also speaks in between. In the Sakar Murlis narrated during the time of Brahma Baba also it is mentioned that while ShivBaba narrates the Murlis, Brahma also interferes in between. But children must always think that it is Shiv who is speaking and not the soul of Brahma.
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by atma » 30 Jun 2006

Bhai,

From your typing I am understanding that you are saying that Brahma Baba is entering both Dadi Gulzar and Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) is this correct?

But with Dadi Gulzar he needs dates and summoning to come in?

atma

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Post by fluffy bunny » 30 Jun 2006

arjun wrote: ... we have to keep in mind that in the body of Shankar there are three souls that play their parts. One is the soul of Ram (Virendra Dev Dixit), another is the soul of Krishna (Lekhraj Kirpalani) and the third is the Supreme Soul Shiv.
As per the advance knowledge we believe that whenever Supreme Soul is narrating the Murlis, it is the soul of Krishna (Dada Lekhraj) which reads out the printed Murlis/Avaykta Vanis which are to be clarified. The clarifications are given by Father Shiv, while the soul of Ram always remains in remembrance.
You write that both the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani and the soul of Shiva enter Virendra Dev Dixit.

• Why do you not say that BapDada enters Virendra Dev Dixit?

From the BKs, we understanding BapDada to be the combination of Shiva and Dada Lehkraj. Here you are saying Shiva and Brahma enter Shankar again.

• Is there a difference in the mechanism so that you do not call them BapDada? You are saying that Virendra Dev Dixit present and conscious, not getting out the way like Gulzar?

[ Of course, apologies to any traditional Hindus who will all be banging their head on against a wall trying to understand this ... ].

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 01 Jul 2006

ex-l wrote:You write that both the soul of Dada Lekhraj and the soul of Shiva enter Virendra Dev Dixit.

• Why do you not say that BapDada enters Virendra Dev Dixit?
For PBKs 'BapDada' does not refer to just Shiv+Lekhraj Kirpalani, rather it refers to {Shiv+Virendra Dev Dixit =Bap} + {Lekhraj Kirpalani =Dada}. That is the reason, we don't say that BapDada enters Baba Virendra Dev Dixit.

ex-l wrote further:
From the BKs, we understanding BapDada to be the combination of Shiva and Dada Lehkraj. Here you are saying Shiva and Brahma enter Shankar again.

• Is there a difference in the mechanism so that you do not call them BapDada? You are saying that Virendra Dev Dixit present and conscious, not getting out the way like Gulzar?
The first part of this question has already been answered above. As regards the second part, I wish to say that since Shiv does not have a subtle body, when He enters into Shankar (Virendra Dev Dixit), there is no physical effect similar to the effect soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani exerts on the body of Dadi Gulzar. As regards the difference between entering of soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani into Dadi Gulzar and Shankar (Virendra Dev Dixit), Baba has told us that when the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enters into Dadi Gulzar, it enters with a subtle body and hence exerts pressure on the body of Dadi Gulzar leading to the physical changes. But when the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enters into the body of Shankar (Virendra Dev Dixit), it enters in a seed-like stage and hence the physical effect of the subtle body of Lekhraj Kirpalani is missing.

There is a saying in Hindi "Jaisa desh vaisa vesh" which means "as the atmosphere/surrounding, so is the costume" . When the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani visits Mount Abu, it enters into Dadi Gulzar amidst a gathering of souls who are not in a seed-like stage since they have not recognized the seed of the humanity at all. Their intellect is diverted towards so many branches, twigs, leaves etc. of the human world tree (especially the Brahmin world). So the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani also gets influenced by the company and loses the seed-like stage. Whereas, when the soul of Lekhraj Kirpalani enters into the body of Shankar (Virendra Dev Dixit or the seed of humanity) in the gathering of the PBKs in a seed-like stage, it also attains the seed-like stage and thus the physical effect of the subtle body of Lekhraj Kirpalani is not seen on Shankar.

With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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arjun
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Post by arjun » 01 Jul 2006

Atma Bhai wrote:
Bhai,

From your typing I am understanding that you are saying that Brahma Baba is entering both Dadi Gulzar and Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit) is this correct?

But with Dadi Gulzar he needs dates and summoning to come in?

atma
Yes, the soul of Brahma Baba enters into the body of Dadi Gulzar and Baba (Virendra Dev Dixit). But when he enters into the body of Dadi Gulzar he needs dates and summoning because he is a human soul. Human souls possess ego to some extent or the other, because each one of them possesses a body, whether physical or subtle. They need to be welcomed or summoned.

Whereas, Supreme Father Shiv neither possesses a physical nor a subtle body and hence He does not possess any ego at all (nirahankari). He comes running to meet his children on his own. He does not need any summoning, either when He entered the body of Brahma Baba to play the role of a mother in unlimited sense (behad ki mata) or when He enters into the body of Shankar (Virendra Dev Dixit) to play the role of a Father in unlimited sense (behad ka Baap).
Here is a small relevant Murli point:
"Madhuban may Baba swayam dauri pahan kar aatey hain." - (BKs dwara prakaashit revised Sakar Murli dinaank 5.9.77, jo Shiv pita dwara Brahma Baba ke tan say sunaai gayi thi).

"Baba Himself comes running to Madhuban" - (Revised Sakar Murli dated 5.9.77, published by BKs and narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba).
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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