Om Radhe (Mama) and her writings

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Apr 2007

John wrote:Where is this from, is it a Mama class?
... and the next questions are; by whom, and when, was it revised or re-written?

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Post by abrahma kumar » 01 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:... and the next questions are; by whom, and when, was it revised or re-written?
Hi Guys, I am typing up those classes directly from the book Gyan Sitar. If a chance to look back at the thread you ll see the genesis of the idea. Your questions:

The Gyan Sitar, the life giving herb, that purifies the mind. A collection of the versions spoken by Mateshwari Jagadamba Saraswati. This book has a collection of the elevated versions spoken by Jagadamba Saraswati personally to the Brahmin children, clarifying in depth the invaluable jewels of knowledge spoken by the Incorporeal, Supreme Soul, Shiva through the mouth of Brahma. First edition: April 1993. Edited in the U.K. Printed at Om Shanti Press, Gyanamrit Bhawan, Abu Road, Rajasthan India. Copyright: Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University, Mt. Abu, Rajasthan India.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 01 Apr 2007

Abrahma Kumar wrote:Edited in the U.K.
Nothing personal towards you but it has gone through at least two editors before it got to that book, one in Abu and one in London.

I am still looking for evidence of the miraculous change in The Knowledge and don't trust the organization's re-writers. 1958 is getting closer. I doubt 98% of London do not know about all this early stuff and just eat whatever Abu feeds them.

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Post by abrahma kumar » 04 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:I am still looking for evidence of the miraculous change in The Knowledge and don't trust the organization's re-writers. 1958 is getting closer. I doubt 98% of London do not know about all this early stuff and just eat whatever Abu feeds them.
Hi Ex-I, feel no fret as i did not take it in a personal way at all. Thank heavens this is one thread on which I can be a dummy ;) All I am doing is typing-up the class, reading for accuracy, spelling bla blah blah and then posting. Not much to it really.

About the 98% in London I know that you are correct . And as for the re-writers - the less said the better. Very, very dangerous it is to be blind.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 08 Apr 2007

For those that are interested in discussing this, I uploaded a copy of the 1943 book

This Preordained World-Wide War of Mahabharata and its Result by Om Radhe Karachi 1943. Seems to have been printed in gold leaf.

Notable is the lack of any mention of Shiva, even by 1943. Usual Prajapati God Brahma references. Interesting references to how the "Divine Fathers" of different religions become sponanteously self-realised. That is to say, no mention of second souls popping into their heads as now taught.

Usual insults thrown at all and everyone!

Image

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Post by arjun » 08 Apr 2007

For those that are interested in discussing this, I uploaded a copy of the 1943 book This Preordained World-Wide War of Mahabharata and its Result by Om Radhe Karachi 1943. Seems to have been printed in gold leaf. Notable is the lack of any mention of Shiva, even by 1943. Usual Prajapati God Brahma references. Interesting references to how the "Divine Fathers" of different religions become sponanteously self-realised. That is to say, no mention of second souls popping into their heads as now taught.
Thanks a lot for uploading the entire book. It will take some time for me to take a print-out of the entire book and to go through the contents.

As an aside, when Mama Om Radhey could describe or introduce herself as a PBK, I do not see any reason why the present day Dadis or senior BKs (who are supposed to be the true followers of Mama) cannot prefix PBK to their names. This would be the first step towards the unification of BKs and PBKs.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by abrahma kumar » 12 Apr 2007

As an aside, when Mama Om Radhey could describe or introduce herself as a PBK, I do not see any reason why the present day Dadis or senior BKs (who are supposed to be the true followers of Mama) cannot prefix PBK to their names. This would be the first step towards the unification of BKs and PBKs.
Maybe the only BKWSU senior to have acted in advance on your suggestion is Sister Mohini as we have on this site an article in which she signed off as: President Brahma Kumaris (USA) = PBK. 8)

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Apr 2007

From Om Radhe's book, "Is this Justice" 1939, a list of the original members of the Om Mandli. Might be of interest to some, especially those told that they were twice born Brahmins!If anyone can help fill in details about who any of these folks are, or became within the organization, then I'd appreciate the help. Might be usefult to split the children up as by boy or girl.

Who were Mr and Mrs Rijhumal Partabrai. They seem to have played a central role as gaurdians?

In 22nd June 1938, the day after the Anti-Party protests and the attempt to set fire to their building, Om Radhe wrote of the Mandli;
Om Radhe wrote:Each of us here is taught how he or she is God and how one creates in a moment and dissolves in the next and how thinking of dualities gives pain to others and receives same in return, and thus involves karma and goes to the prison of the womb.

Each of us gives in writing personal experience and state of spiritual attainments to the Mandli which are available for perusal.

Any one ataining this Anand and Shanti cannot hurt any one else knowing and seeing his own self in all. There have not been any complaints from members.
I wonder where all those written accounts went?

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Post by joel » 12 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:From Om Radhe's book, "Is this Justice" 1939, a list of the original members of the Om Mandli.[/b]
Interesting. I remember seeing Brahma Baba's son Narain (whose name appears on this list) in a meeting with BapDada one time. Bap-Dada was asking him if he was ready to devote more of his time to things spiritual. His answer: at the moment I am very busy.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 12 Apr 2007

Did he recognize his Dad? Did he recognize God within him? Was he familiar or embarrassed by all the fuss around him?
joel wrote:Interesting. I remember seeing Brahma Baba's son Narain (whose name appears on this list) in a meeting with BapDada one time. BapDada was asking him if he was ready to devote more of his time to things spiritual. His answer: at the moment I am very busy.

I never connection these two parts together but on the basis of these new historical revelations from the age of about 8 to the age of, say, 20, he grew up in a community of hundreds of people that thought his Dad was God Brahma (and Krishna and Narayan).

How weird is that going to be? Or how it feels to have your Father stairing down at you from even Raja Yoga center wall.

He was a late child too. His Father must have been 42-ish when he did the job. So Mr and Mrs Lekhraj Kirpalani must have remained sexually active for a fairly long time for all his talk of celibacy and forbidding of others. I wonder if it was a loving relationship and whether she enjoyed it and the comfort and touch afforded to her through it? (a la Jannsider's latest posts elsewhere).

• And where is Dadi Janki on the list? The BKs say she was one of the original committee members but she was not. Are we sure it is not;
  • Janki Metharam Kripalani, aged 13 of Saraswati Lane
I am interested to know because if it is they have faked her age and history too. How many Janki Kripalanis are their likely to be in the Yagya? Aged 13 in 1938/39 ...

Who can explain to me how the Sindi naming system works? Do the wife and kids take the names of the husband, e.g. "Jasoda Lekhraj Kripalani" ... which name is their first name, e.g. ?

It is interesting to see how they all came from a few streets and a handful of families. How their little drama has become our huge drama, who knows. I also notice quite a few Vaswani family members. It was a Swami Vaswani that brew up a whole load of problems for the Om Mandli. I wonder if it was just simple competitive jealousy between the two religious leaders. Swami Vaswani was also uplifting women.

And then if you do a search for Shewakram, you will find a few mentions of this too. Shewakram, or Sevak Ram, is the man the PBKs reckon was the original medium of Shiva but who comes out as being the secretary for the Anti-Party. Perhaps he was a voice of reason attempting to pull back the excesses of the early God Brahma gurus. Someone has to go out to Karachi and Hyderabad, dig into the Sind community to start finding more peices of this jigsaw puzzle.

I have to also say that there is no evidence yet to qualify when Lekhraj Kirpalani gave all his money away and to whom.

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Mama's Day

Post by abrahma kumar » 24 Jun 2007

Today, the BKWSU is commemorating Mama's Day. If tradition still holds sway, the students will gather for the annual reading and churning of Mama's, so-called Murli. Haven't a clue about which one will be read, so in the meantime this post will be followed by the next class in sequence taken from the Gyan Sitar book.

Will visit this space again sometime soon to explore a few thoughts stemming from a communication I received in which this year's annual event has been trailed. But before I do that i need a bit of independent corroboration, so we see how it goes.

Om Shanti

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Post by abrahma kumar » 24 Jun 2007

16th December 1958

To put your hand in the hand of God means to surrender yourself to Him completely and to follow His directions.

Om Shanti. We now have enlightenment, that is we have the knowledge of how human souls go through births of both happiness and sorrow. We also have the enlightenment of how we have come to play our parts and of where we then have to go. God, who is Dharamraj, the Supreme Judge, is the One who knows about the karmic accounts of everyone. Those who have firm faith in the intellect understand that they now have a practical relationship with God. He is the Supreme Judge. So we have to settle all our past karmic accounts before Him. We have to put our hand completely in His hand.

Some ask: "What do you mean by putting your hand in His hand?" We know that He is our Father, Teacher and Guru, and that we have to settle the account of our past sinful actions in front of Him, and that we have to claim the future reward from Him, and that is why we completely surrender ourselves to Him. The One who inspires such actions will be responsible to the extent that you surrender yourself and follow His directions. That is what it means to put your hand in His hand. Then no matter in which way He makes you move, you have to surrender everything you have. You need that much power.

Everything is done according to each one’s karmic accounts. He is Karankaravanhar (the One who does and inspires others to do). Whatever He inspires you to do will be totally beneficial. So you should have that much faith that your stage should be according to His directions. You have to make your stage complete. You have to surrender yourself totally. You know that the One who reviews the accounts has come here in person. He is now present in front of us in order to see everything, to give us directions and to inspire us to perform actions. He will be responsible for us to the extent that we surrender ourselves.

Some children think that they just have to give their chart to Him on a piece of paper. That is all. But you also have to understand the significance of a chart. Just as in a relationship between a Father and a child, the child would give the full account to the Father in order to seek his advice. You need power to follow His directions. This is a practical matter. Do not think: I have written everything on a piece of paper and so I have become His child. Here you have to actually belong to Him. Then you have to do whatever He says.

God says: You have to know me as I am and know what I am. Then you have to do whatever He says. In the same way, those who say those who say that they are his children have to understand, "Whatever I am, whoever I am, I am Yours." Then nothing belongs to the self. If you have this much courage, you can move forward. If your intellect is drawn in both directions you will not be able to do anything.

You have to take directions at every second. Otherwise what purpose is there in Him taking responsibility for you? You have to create your life by putting these things into practice. Just as in a lokik situation, when someone becomes someone's child he does so on the basis of his karmic accounts. Now this is One is the Father, the Teacher and the Guru. So you have to surrender all your karma to Him. It requires great courage. You have to be very clear in front of the Supreme Soul.

These aspects are for those who wish to attain complete victory. Only those who are such effort-makers will be able to claim victory. You have to take full guidance so that your karma will continue to be elevated and you will also destroy your sins. You have to understand this in a practical way and you have to become this in practice.

Although God is the Lord of Innocence, He is not so innocent. He is innocent in that He takes so little from you, and yet He is a Bestower when it comes to giving. You give Him things that are of no use to Him. They are not even useful to you, and look at how much He gives you. He is innocent in this way. He will take all the oldest things. However, He is not so innocent that He will just accept a piece of paper. So, you have to place everything you have in front of Him and receive everything from Him. In this, you must not consider anything to belong to you. You have to place your useless things in front of Him. Only when you have such courage can you do something. Achcha.

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Post by jannisder » 24 Jun 2007

This is making me sick!!! :evil: :evil:

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Post by joel » 24 Jun 2007

jannisder wrote:This is making me sick!!! :evil: :evil:
Really? At the time I loved it. Others only talk about giving themselves over to God, for example as in part of the 12 (originally six) steps of the AA program. We, BKs, were actually giving ourselves over to God. "We are really doing it!" The certainty brought a shot of ecstatic dopamine discharge.

In her discourse here, her language can be interpreted on two levels. The devotional singing of God's praises, which occupies a major role in the religious culture, is one level. The second subtext, suggestion and outright assertion that all God offers is available now, on special offer, factory direct, limited time only, through this exclusive chain. (I am using this language facetiously, yet this is a metaphor often heard in the Murli).

Mama Radhe's oratorical abilities, to be able to speak on any question at length to the upliftment of her audience, combined with embodiment-of-love sweetness, love and wisdom appeared to prove to many that God had clearly empowered this divine angel of purity, personality, strength, and decorum.

That was her niche and the BKWSU niche today, holy talk in return for donations and converts. Whatever we may argue about her greatness, she certainly lived an active if not vigorous life and faced illness, pain and death like all of us do.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Jun 2007

Converts = Free Labour.

Yes, it is a shame she did not go into politics or get a real job. She could have done very well in life and helped with the practical upliftment of humanity. I remember Mitra saying some BKs believe that she has to come back to do service via money, as that was the only service she had not done before. But I think she is more like to come back to reap the finanical rewards of her efforts in building up the BK family business.

Does anyone know the name of her married elder sister? I just quoted some more neat Radhe in the History forum re Arya Samaj, Congress Party and Gandhi. She did seem a little bit full of herself really.
abrahma Kumar wrote:16th December 1958.
1958 ... do we know if there is any mention of Shiva within the originals, or are we still stuck on Prajapati God Brahma?

1958 only leaves us with a short bridge back to 1949 or 1950 where we still have God Brahma and the failed prediction of Destruction. She seems to have mellowed a little since her earlier works.

For those unitiated finding their way here, the original Brahma Kumaris used to think Lekhraj Kirpalani was their personal god (at least with a small G) and are to this day unsure and unconcerned who or when or if their new God Shiva was alledgely in or speaking through Lekhraj Kirpalani. I understand that Virendra Dev Dixit and the PBKs recognize some ambiguity or inconclusivity in this but tactfully, if not tactically, say that it does not matter as everything Lekhraj Kirpalani said as a medium was Shrimat ... and then try and work out what the hell he was talking about. My $64,000 question is ...
  • Do we have any record of Mama's realization, recollection or collusion in the revelation of God Shiva and the primary introduction of a personal God instead of Prajapati God Brahma and the Brahm element after 1950?
Mama Saraswati was notorious for keeping diaries and notebooks. Apparently she had trunks full of them. Given this tendency, and given her position as the President of the PBIVV and Number 2 soul of the world, is it too much to expect that she might have mentioned or documented such an event in some way?

Did she not feel an awful fool for having gone on about Lekhraj Kirpalani as the Gita Inventor and writing all those letters to royalty, politicians and VIPs!?!

Please do not allow this to stop you posting exampels of her edited or could we call it censored writings, as published by the BKWSU. They are all still very helpful to building up a more complete picture. They have also set the example for the likes of Janki Kripalani to come forward, fill the gap and produce her own Murlis ...

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