Original picture of Tree with "The 8"

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Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Apr 2007

joel wrote:Have you written about this somewhere?
Not yet, I am hoping that the individual will come forward themselves and discuss the matter in a far better way than I might.I have noticed recently that Didi Manmohini is being gradually written out of the history by the press machine and the "two women chosen by God" to lead the BKWSU has transfered to "Janki and Prakashmani".

Probably just a little PR slip but like so many it becomes its own truth through telling many times and enters the BK mythology as legend.

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Post by joel » 17 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:BTW, which one of the original committee was Dadi Prakashmani?
We never learned her worldly name, only Prakashmani and nickname Kumarka.
I have noticed recently that Didi Manmohini is being gradually written out of the history byt he press machine and the "two women chosen by God" to lead the BKWSU has transfered to "Janki and Prakashmani".
No need to confuse people by mentioning the names of those no longer here.

So with Dadi P. no longer able to manage the day-to-day affairs of the Yagya, who is actually in charge? Is Dadi Janki now the leader of the organization?

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rivalry

Post by alladin » 17 Apr 2007

Hi, do you remember how, at some stage, in the late 80s, one Madhuban season especially, there was a sort of challenge/subtle, yet perceivable war between DJ and Dashrath Patel?

This had become quite obvious from classes, with points they were throwing at each other and supporters groups formed. Some would go to lawful DJ for approval/asking permissions and advice; others, regardless of the zone they belonged to, would seek refuge in more loving DK ...

So, this kind of things seem to have always happened. Not very royal! :cry:.

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Re: rivalry

Post by joel » 17 Apr 2007

alladin wrote:Hi, do you remember how, at some stage, in the late 80s, one Madhuban season especially, there was a sort of challenge/subtle, yet perceivable war between DJ and Dashrath Patel?
They definitely had different spheres of influence. I never looked for a conflict, certainly never compared their classes. I do remember that Dadi Janki sometimes gave class after the morning Murli. I usually had enough points for the day by then, left without waiting to hear DJ.

Dadi K did not need to dominate through class-giving.

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Post by yudhishtira » 17 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:I respect you personally more than either her, or her multifold sycophants, for having courage to come on here to meet us and address these matters. I'd also like to point out that she herself is responsible for instituting a system that declines others the oppportunity to study the Murli and, indeed, has been responsible for very senior BK leaving the BKWSU due to the manner in which the Murlis are taught. May be she, and they, are "insecure" because she has been going along with lies or so many years? May be I am wrong and Janki is only a nickname ...
And thank you for doing all this work and raising these issues ex-l. I am a private individual. I am not a member of the hierarchy. And I am learning a lot through posting here about what is important to me. So thank you for being here. Don't bother trying to be polite if you do not want to either. :wink: do not get me wrong; I am NOT trying to defend DJ..
Several points;

1. Do we know she is one of the top 8 souls? Are the 8 fixed? All we have is what she says Brahma Baba said to her once ... and she definitly wasn't one of the original 8 on the list if we want to go by the record. (I will definitely post that list tonight, I've had some technical problems with my home connection).

2. Shes not been "all of a sudden transfigured" by this ****. She has had it all her life. Shes allowed herself to be an instrument to a certain level but she hasnt let go of her controlling mechanisms. She is not a totally spiritual person. And I am sure that the negative way she has treated many souls, including souls I know personally, is only increasing her negativity.

3. Is it the fault of Raja Yoga/Shiv Baba or anyone else if she chooses to hang onto her ****? If you surgically remove someone's body-concious prop, they will collapse. Don't forget, all those who choose to worship her and support her body-conscious systems are also getting something out of it (i.e. they don't have to take responsibility for their own ****). So the rubbish of everyone in the Yagya has been holding up this teetering edifice, but sooner or later its going to come down. Time has nothing to do with it. I've only just realised some major rubbish I was hanging onto after 12 years. If someone has an emotional investment at hanging onto their ****, even God himself cant prise their monkey fingers off of it ...

4. So, what is this "most stable mind in the world" thing? Someone stuck some electrodes in her when she was in deep Yoga. Big deal. I know the BKs make a big deal out of it but it obviously is not a reality. I know of several recent occasions where she's flown into irrational rages and Jayanti Bhens had to apologise for her.

5. What hope for the rest of us? Well for me, Shiv Baba/God hasn't gone anywhere just because one of his adminstrators is acting badly. Brahma Baba I am occassionally ****** off with for continuing to support her, but God is meant to be take responsability for his screw ups too. Personally, my experience has made me a stronger person. I don't belong to Dada Janki. I belong to Baba. I wonder if she'd been all sweetness and light how much I would have remembered Baba, and how much I would focused my attention on her. I am not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater because the human souls running the joint are not perfect. However much they pretend to be.

With relevance to your research, I hope that you get to the bottom of this. Would there be surviving birth certification records in Karachi?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 17 Apr 2007

Re birth certificates, there should be no need. It should just all be clear, simple and out in the open. One should be able to make an official request and receive a full, honest and complete respectful response. Respect for others the BKWSU leadership have absolutely no idea about.
yudhishtira wrote:4. So, what is this "most stable mind in the world" thing? ... With relevance to your research, I hope that you get to the bottom of this. Would there be surviving birth certification records in Karachi?
You know what I am on about here; the BK Bulls**t Machine. If it is Bulls**t ... which much of it is now proven to be (cooked, baked and iced) ... it should not belong in a spiritual organization.

The "bottom of this" will be when the BKWSU takes down all the Bulls**t off all of their websites, withdraws all the dishonest media and publishes a clear public statement of facts documenting the history and realities.

Beyond that, the "bottom line" is when any individual engaging in BK Raja Yoga is given a clear public statement about what they are all about and believe in on Day One. A bit like a government health warning on a cigarette packet.


Until that day, they will live in the knowledge that the noise outside their centers from empowered and aware individuals is growing and growing and their deceits are not going to work any more anyway ... at least in where the world has internet access. We are pretty much guaranteed that any IP or VIP, or any number of folk at their public events will have read our experiences, and the published realities, and know what they are all about.

If the IPs and VIP going along with the BK without address these matters, then they are fair game for outing as far as I am concerned.

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Post by yudhishtira » 18 Apr 2007

OK, here we go; from "A Unique Experience" by Dada Vishwa Ratan

From the chapter "Designing the Kalpa Tree.."

"Then I said, " But , Baba, there are so many children, which of them and how many should be seated here?" Baba said, "Well child, the rosary of eight jewels is well known, so draw eight children. They will represent all the others". I said, "Yes Baba, kindly tell me the names of those eight and I will paste their photographs here." Baba said, "Yes, you are right. Well, I'll tell you the names tomorrow, not today."

Baba then summoned Sangtri Dadi, who was a trance messenger, and asked her to go to Baba and tell Him that we are designing the part of the Kalpa Tree where the eight children are to be shown. Ask Him the names of those who are to be seated there. Sangtri Dadi did so and the next day Baba told me the names. These were: - Didi Man Mohini, Dadi Prakashmani, Dadi Brij Indra, Dadi Dhyani, Dadi Shantamani, Dadi Brijshanta, Dada Vishwa Kishore and Vishwa Ratan. I put the photos of the three Dadis and one brother on the left and the same number on the right. "

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Post by john » 18 Apr 2007

yudhishtira wrote:OK, here we go; from "A Unique Experience" by Dada Vishwa Ratan "
Could you tell me if this book is still obtainable and from where?

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Post by yudhishtira » 18 Apr 2007

john wrote:Could you tell me if this book is still obtainable and from where?
The only place I've seen it is in the literature shops in Gyan Sarovar and Madhuban. Its a small book, with his face on the cover. I will try to scan it in and upload it if that is useful.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 18 Apr 2007

yudhishtira wrote:Baba then summoned Sangtri Dadi, who was a trance messenger, and asked her to go to Baba and tell Him that we are designing the part of the Kalpa Tree where the eight children are to be shown.
Do we have a specific date on this picture creation? Was it earlier or later than the images I uploaded? I have one problem with it, and that is the general, non-specific or confusing use of the word 'Baba'.

There was no Shiva Baba at that time in the early period. It was all "Prajapati God Brahma" and infinite Divine Light. There were (I remember being told but have no specific evidence) visions of another/Avyakt Brahma in the Subtle Regions which had the BK scratching their heads. My thought is this reference may be to that 'Baba'. Or was this the much later Tree which included Shiva and Shankar at the top?

If the book also states when Shiva was incorporated into the BK theology, I'd really appreciate knowing that too.

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Post by john » 18 Apr 2007

yudhishtira wrote: I will try to scan it in and upload it if that is useful.
That would be most useful and greatly appreciated if possible :D

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Post by yudhishtira » 18 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:Do we have a specific date on this picture creation? Was it earlier or later than the images I uploaded? I have one problem with it, and that is the general, non-specific or confusing use of the word 'Baba'.
There is no date of publication for this book but I know it was published about 5 years ago.

Regarding the picture of the tree, it seems to have made been prior to the move to Mount Abu, within a few years, but no specific date is given. Also its not stated when Shiv Baba became incorporated within the teachings. I know what you mean by the use of the word Baba but that's word for word what he wrote. I will have a go at scanning it now.

OK. I have emailed the scanned pages of this book to the info email address, as I tried to upload the scans onto here and it didnt like it. I am hoping that the moderators that collect the emails are more techno literate than me and can help with this matter. 8)

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Post by admin » 18 Apr 2007

yudhishtira wrote:OK. I have emailed the scanned pages of this book to the info email address, as I tried to upload the scans onto here and it didnt like it. I am hoping that the moderators that collect the emails are more techno literate than me and can help with this matter. 8)
For educational purposes, in order to develop the analysis of this topic, we are making a low resolution copy of the book, here; A Unique Experience. The file is 9 MB big and should take less than a minutes to download via Broadband.

As time allows we will attempt to make a refined copy.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 19 Apr 2007

I am working on an analysis of the Dada's book, "A Unique Experience" correlating the people and events. As you might imagine, there is a large element of fiction involved as usual. We have been living in these people's fairy story.

In the mean while, just a little edit from one of the other posters that are dated 1949 and predict the Destruction in "One Year". This has to be the same Tree he is talking about but the main difference is that there is no upside down tree in the Soul World as he claims in his book. That must come in later (or have already been removed). Ditto, they are still on the God Brahma trip.

Image

Image

Image

There are all a bit small but a bigger version is in the Library.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Apr 2007

Just a little note, the drawing of the butter chasing wild science cats in this early tree is of Truman and Stalin. Not Roosevelt.


I think that I and others made this mistake. But Roosevelt died in 1945 and it was the thirty-third President of the United States (1945–1953) Harry S. Truman that diced with Stalin. When you see the photo it is obvious. The Soviet Union developed and tested their first nuclear weapon in 1949 which corroborated that this picture and the revisions of the Knowledge came around this period. The source of the picture is dated 1949.

The Dada wrote about just finishing the images as they were getting on a boat to Abu, although I think that refers to the red and white block printed one and not this hand finished one.

Image

India detonated it first Nuclear Weapon on May 18, 1974 at a desert site 150 kilometers from the Pakistani border near the village of Pokhran, in Rajasthan. What India's leader, Indira Gandhi, insisted was a "peaceful nuclear explosive" :|

Image

Interestingly this links back to the epic Ramayana as the place where the god-king Ram once fitted his bow with a powerful arrow which generated great heat in order to dry up the seas of Sri Lanka. Cajoled not to do so, he instead fired it into the mythical river Saraswati which, according to one legend, flowed here. The river dried up as a consequence and was replaced by the barren desert.

In the early works of the BKs in the 30s and early 40s, there is NO mention of Nuclear weapons that I can see. It is bombs and "gas", old WWI / WWII fears. The adoption of the myth to include nuclear come later. No wonder if it was just a few hundred kilometers from Abu. Personally, I would connect the 1976 predictions to these events in 1974. The usual "one year or so" they had been rolling on since the early days.

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