Original picture of Tree with "The 8"

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john
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Post by john » 20 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:I am working on an analysis of the Dada's book, "A Unique Experience" correlating the people and events. As you might imagine, there is a large element of fiction involved as usual. We have been living in these people's fairy story.
I've been thinking about it and I am wondering in what year Dada's pictures were made? I thought the pictures were made in the 60's, though I could be losing the plot here.

I am wondering if the pictures, as revealed by Om Radhe, were by someone else and made much earlier, really they are not grand pictures like Dada's but more like line drawings.

Nothing in Dada's book seems to go against the present day teachings and Yagya history, but I think the publication of this book is relatively new and therefore would have to fit in to pass the criteria of being published by the BKSWU.
  • Dada seems a very good soul, but would his faithfulness to the cause have lead him to toe the party line?

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Post by fluffy bunny » 20 Apr 2007

john wrote:I've been thinking about it and I am wondering in what year Dada's pictures were made? I thought the pictures were made in the 60's, though I could be losing the plot here.
No, you are headed in the right direction, John.

His story is a cover up and a fudge. A mixing up of two different series of events which is why you cant trust them just because they are "nice". It is not nice. It is so "polished" that they are slippery, the Dadas are all sitting there smug knowing that they are feeding lies. I will get back to you and present some pretty conclusive dates but if you have dates for the second version of the Tree WITH the upside down Soul World, it would be useful.

What I am still asking is where did all the early English language material disappear to? It is a wonder that NO Brits became involved, even for a sniff around, because the judiciary was mainly English and we know that Lekhraj did business and socialize with them. I am wondering if they had some Brit in there translating for them?

This is just a map to place where all these events were taking place. Dehli is disappearing off to the top right.
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Post by arjun » 22 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:We note that the main pictures are also being "revised" in many "revisions" for Western consumption
The write-ups on both sides of (and even below) the original pictures were significant in many aspects. But probably after the demise of Brahma Baba the write-ups were removed to give way to only the pictures, which were also revised. Here is a Murli quote that mentions the significance of the write-ups.

"Chitra itnaa badaa banaana chaahiye jo likhat bhi aa jaaye."
"The pictures should be so large that the write-up is also included in it." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 26.12.06, pg.2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Apr 2007

admin wrote:For educational purposes, in order to develop the analysis of this topic, we are making a low resolution copy of the book, here; A Unique Experience. The file is 26 MB big and should take 5 to 10 minutes to download via Broadband.
Vishwa's book is missing pages 34 and 35 which are central to the Designing of the Tree.

Anyone have a scan of those pages?

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Updated version of Unique Experience now available

Post by admin » 24 Apr 2007

An updated version of 'A Unique Experience' now available which included some of the missing pages and has been reduced in size for easier downloading, here.

Pages 60 - 61, 68 -69 and 74 - 75 are still missing, unless these were blanks.

For those already having downloaded, one missing page about the Tree is also available on its own, here.

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Post by yudhishtira » 25 Apr 2007

Rats. i will need to go back and scan those pages. You tend to lose track when you are doing so many of whether you've saved each one before you scan again. Sorry folks. Will sort that out asap.

ex-l; could you tell us what is a cover up and fudge? Or do you want to wait till you've finished?

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Post by john » 25 Apr 2007

ex-l wrote:Just a little note, the drawing of the butter chasing wild science cats in this early tree is of Truman and Stalin. Not Roosevelt.
Roosevelt in office March 4, 1933 – April 12, 1945
Truman in office April 12, 1945 – January 20, 1953
Eisenhower in Office January 20, 1953 – January 20, 1961

The other picture of the tree has another USA president on I am sure or it could be Roosevelt or Eisenhower, but definately doesn't look like Truman. Plus the opposing picture to the USA president looks more like Khrushchev who was in office September 7, 1953 – October 14, 1964

So ... Dada said his picture of the tree was to have Roosevelt and Stalin, which would date it between 1933 and 1945.

The Original picture we have has Truman and Stalin, which would date it between 1945 and 1953

The other picture of the tree, let's say "revised Tree" has, I am guessing here Eisenhower and Khrushchev. Which dates it between 1953 and 1961. This is assuming the information in the Dada book is accurate and the drawings match up to the presidents on each picture of the tree.

Having looked through the book again, it seems that Dada was making the Tree picture around the time of the move from Karachi, which was he says 30th April 1950 ...

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Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Apr 2007

john wrote:So ... Dada said his picture of The Tree was to have Roosevelt and Stalin, which would date it between 1933 and 1945. The Original Tree picture we have has Truman and Stalin, which would date it between 1945 and 1953
John is headed in the right direction. What they have done here is a very typical tactic of one kind of liar ... to go on to tell at length a very convincing, extensive story about ANOTHER TRUTH in order to hide the COVER UP OR LIE that one really wants to make.

Do I think this was "just" a mistake?

No, not all. I think it has been quite deliberate. It stuns me (but not surprises me) that the Dadis and Dadas could have sat down and connived it together in order to mislead all the BKs, while taking all the praise and respect. And continue to do so for decades.

If you look at the images from theRevised Tree you can see what is going on here. We see the Gandhi and the Upside-down Tree that Vishwa is talking about and the Presidents of the US and Russia have changed. Stalin has lost his moustache and Truman his spectacles and nose.

I think John is right and it is Eisenhower and Khrushchev and they had to keep changing it as the predictions failed. In the early writings there is NO mention of Atomic Bombs, that is a later invention. Roosevelt actually died on April 12, 1945 and it was only on August 6, 1945 that the nuclear weapon 'Little Boy' was dropped on Hiroshima. It was top secret before then. We can date the Original Trees (both the hand painted ones and the block print red on white ones to around 1949/50. The later red on white ones to just as they were leaving to Madhuban perhaps.

But, you can see in them there is no mention of the details ascribed in the book.
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Eisenhower and Khrushchev

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We can probably give an approximate date of the English version of the Revised Tree by the centers that were open. There were a number of Hindi verions of this Tree too, see above.

But I have a question first.

In the Original Tree - and I think this must be one of the original 12 hand painted ones I am looking at - one of the eight have their left arm sticking out distinctively. In the Revised Tree, Mama sat next to Dada Lekhraj has her left arm sticking out distinctively. This may be completely misleading but I am wondering if this is significant. That is to say, if the woman in the Original Tree sat next to Dada Lekhraj is not Om Radhe but perhaps an earlier medium or someone else. May be the SS that Vishwa does not name but who checked the Murli notes Lekhraj Kirpalani wrote ... one of the Golden Circle perhaps? Can we check the 8 on both pictures to see if they are the same ones?
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It was my opinion, when I saw the Original Tree, that some was going on here and may be it was not Om Radhe. Om Radhe was never known as a medium, was she. Why the change of positions? One for the PBKs may be ...

OK. that was the question within the context of Lekhraj Kirpalani and trance messengers being consulted over every detail of the Tree. The rest of what I will have to say is backed up with specific dates and so on.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 25 Apr 2007

From http://www.ShivBaba.org.pl. I am afraid that I do not have a higher resolution copy, perhaps they do?
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Post by fluffy bunny » 28 Apr 2007

OK. I would like to make my comments on this deception over the Tree business but first, I would like to respond to Arjun who quote the Murli point below
arjun wrote:The write-ups on both sides of (and even below) the original pictures were significant in many aspects. But probably after the demise of Brahma Baba the write-ups were removed to give way to only the pictures, which were also revised. Here is a Murli quote that mentions the significance of the write-ups. "Chitra itnaa badaa banaana chaahiye jo likhat bhi aa jaaye." "The pictures should be so large that the write-up is also included in it." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 26.12.06, pg.2 published by BKs in Hindi, narrated by ShivBaba through Brahma Baba)
Obviously the BapDadis decided things should be different now that the Father has gone. The SS know better than Baba. Yes, Arjun, it is true. I rather liked the original Hindi posters. I have no problems with them. I suspected that they had deeper symbolic meanings, and now we are see how they are being stripped away.

As you know, the "5,000 Years" business is a huge unserviceable embarrassment for Western BKs due to the "Dinosaur Question" and we have heard that it is gradually being sidelined (as the predictions from the BK point of view appear to be failing). If we look at the modern pictures of the Cycle and Tree from the time of the first Western paintings, which were remade without text and with white BKs painted in, to most recently, we can see how the process is almost complete and the images are becoming "symbolic" ... meaning open to easy re-interpretation. They also downplay Destruction.

There is even, unaccountably, 15 or 18 BKs sitting at the bottom of the Tree ... and why is the Subtle Regions shown all around the Kalpa when it is said that it only exits at the Confluence Age. It would appear that accuracy have falled prey to individuals' artistic license.

• Does anyone have a scan of The Tree on the front of the original Correspondence Course? John? (I suppose they must not not do the correspondence courses any more for fear of documents falling into others hands?)
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Post by fluffy bunny » 29 Apr 2007

Here is an older Hindi Tree from Creator-creation.com, which I think is Shivsena's website. It seems the same as the English one;
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Most recent versions of Trees (Buy Two at the BKWSU!)

Post by fluffy bunny » 11 May 2007

Again, 2 posters for sale from the BK Publication's company store, this time both of the Tree.

There was a time when the Tree was meant to look like something. Now I think it is meant to look as vague but attractive as possible to plug the product of Gyan. Nice paintings but I want to see the Murli points first!
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Post by arjun » 11 May 2007

ex-l wrote:There is even, unaccountably, 15 or 18 BKs sitting at the bottom of The Tree ... and why is the Subtle Regions shown all around the Kalpa when it is said that it only exits at the Confluence Age. It would appear that accuracy have falled prey to individuals' artistic license.
In your above post dated 28.04.07 the second picture of Kalpa Tree contains all fair Brahmin souls and the first picture contains a mixture of Brahmins from all the continents. It seems as if the second one was prepared to satisfy the Europeans while the first one was prepared to satisfy the souls from other continents also. The original picture of Kalpa Tree prepared during the times of Brahma Baba shows only 8 Brahmin souls apart from Brahma and Saraswati. Whereas, the above two modified pictures show 15-18 Brahmin souls. Was this increase in the number of Brahmin souls depicted in the modified Kalpa Tree pictures carried out on the basis of Godly directions as contained in any Murli/Avyakt Vani or was it done to satisfy some souls?

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by fluffy bunny » 11 May 2007

arjun wrote:or was it done to satisfy some souls?
... souls within the family who were like to benefit from them?

I don't know the circumstances surrounding the creation of the first Western 'Tree of Humanity'. I think it was an Australian brother, was it? It hung in Baba Bhavan in London for a while and may still do. I suppose BB through Gulzar just said, "good child, effort maker ...".

My guess it was artistic license BUT what we do see is the gradual slide away from orthodox Knowledge, supported directly by the Murlis or even instructions of Shiva/BapDada, to obscured, personal re-interpretation made attractive. Non-contenious and obscure forms that allow the BKs to be all things or anything as long as they increase their influence.

It is strange that they still deify OM Radhe as Mrs Brahma whent hey contradict what she said and no one knows anything about her or reads her letters. Its like the Catholic 'Cult of the Virgin Mary'.

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Post by andrey » 11 Jun 2007

There are many mentionings in the Murlis about the pictures; that some corrections should be made, something has to be written here or there. For example, for the picture of the Ladder that at the bottom it has to be written "unfaithfull intellect - destroyed " and at the top; "faithful intellect - victorious". And that the picture of the Trimurti is not accurate and the accurate picture of Trimurti should be prepared. In the old picture of The Tree, Shankar was also missing at the top.

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