POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

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mbbhat
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Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 03 Oct 2009

Dear Soul,
You are still not mentioning to whom Baba says the Murli point(= (that the name Prajapita should be mentioned with Brahma; Many have the name Brahma, but nobody would have name Prajapita, I need impure body) and how it is going to be benifited! So let me try.
Arjun wrote/replied:- But where is the foundation laid for these names? Is it not in the Confluence Age? And is it not we Brahmin children who start Bhakti first of all?
It is true that Gyan marg is foundation for Bhaktimarg. But as soon as one enters into gyaanmarg, the words of Bhaktimarg are useless to him! We were devotees before becoming BKs/PBKs, right?

So to whom knowledge is needed? To BKs/PBKs or outside people? Obviously it is for outside people! Else,

1)PBKs know who is Prajapita (according to PBKs)

2)If you say- the Murli point (= the name Prajapita should be mentioned with Brahma; Many have the name Brahma, but nobody would have name Prajapita, I need impure body), for BKs, who in BK philosophy belive there are many Brahmas? Who in BKs do not belive that God does not need impure body?

And BKs very well have kept the name Prajapita for Dada Lekhraj. So how can Baba's Murli point- Prajapita naam kisee kaa nahin hoga= Nobody would have name Prajapita applicable for BKs?
a)Baba says I speak Murlis only in front of the children. b)Outsiders are not even allowed to enter the class, although BKs have been violating this rule ever since Brahma Baba left his body
a)Of course, Baba speaks to children, but he also mentions how to do the service. So what I mean is Baba directs children to stress the word Prajapita to the outside world people so that knowledge can be given easily to them.

If you say- knowledge is just for BKs/PBKs then were there any bk/pbk when God just incarnated?

b)This is a separate issue. What has that to do with truth? Does that going to affect Prajapita matter?

There are clear Murli points that say(I hope, you know this) - outside impure people cannot meet me. But at present, I have to meet. One day the rules will become strict that no impure souls can enter here.

So when ShivBaba has compromised with his own words, I feel PBKs pointing about these are foolishness.

mbbhat
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Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 16 Oct 2009

POSSIBILITY NUMBER 03):- a PBK WROTE
Rudraputra wrote:- Creator Brahma ko nahi kaha jaata hai."------------MU 13.2.75
"Brahma is not called as creator"

----but even it is said that

"PRAJAPITA Brahma ko bhi creator kehte hai."-----------MU 26.7.77
"PRAJAPITA Brahma is also called creator"

here clearly it is indicated that "Brahma" is not the creator but "PRAJAPITA Brahma" is the creator....so Brahma and PRAJAPITA Brahma are two different personalities
------

Reply:-
1)SM 13-12-77(1):- Drama may harek yug ki rasm rivaaz apni2 hai. Yah Baap baith samjhaate hain. Kyonki Baap hee knowledgeful hai. HAI YAH BHI BABA, VAH BHI BABA. VAH BHI CREATOR, YAH BHI CREATOR. Brahma dwara create karte hain, adopt karte hain na. Adopt arthaat apnaa banaayaa jataa hai. -149-

= The rasam rivaaz(characteristics) in every age in this drama is unique. Father sits and explains this. Because only Father is knowledegful. THIS IS ALSO BABA, THAT(Shiv) IS ALSO BABA. THAT(SHIV) IS ALSO CREATOR, THIS(BRAHMA) IS ALSO CREATOR. (God) creates through Brahma. (HE) adopts, is it not? Adopt means making ones own.

2)SM 5-4-78(2):- Creator Director Baap hee hai. ShivBaba direction dete hain Brahma ko ki tumko ASDDDharm ki sthaapnaa karnee hai. Sthaapnaa kar phir tumko jaakar paalnaa karni hai. Hum nahin karenge. Tumko sikhlate hain, direction dete hain na. Karan_Karaavanhaar hai na. Khud karte bhee hain, knowledge sunaate hain aur tumse karate bhi hain na. Srimat miltee hai yah karo. Drama anusaar YAH Brahma sthaapnaa kar phir raajy karenge. Braahman Braahmaniyaan bhi raajy karenge. Shoodr to nahin karenge. To Baap samjhaate hain MAIN NIRAAKAAR EK HUN aur sab sakari hain. Ab VAH NIRAAKAAR parampita paramatma aatmaavon ko math dete hain. 75-

= Creator director is only Father. ShivBaba gives direction to Brahma that you have to create/establish ASDDDharm. After creation, you have to go and do sustenance. We/I will not do. (I) teach you and give direction, is it not? (I am) karan(doer)-karaavanhar (one who gets done through another), is it not? (I) do, give knowledge and get things done through you, is it not? You get srimat- do this. According to drama, THIS BRAHMA CREATES AND RULES KINGDOM. Even male braahmin and female braahmins rule Kingdom. ....

[Brahma is both creator and not creator. When Shiv is karanhaar, Brahma is not creator. When Shiv is karaavanhaar, Brahma gets title of creator. ]


3)SM 28-1-77(3):- Mujhe aanaa bhi patit duniyaa may pade. Tab hee patiton ko pavan banaavoon. Jo poojy Sri LN they vahee phir patit poojaari bane hain. TO YAH BRAHMA JO STHAAPNAA KARTE HAIN, VAHEE PHIR PAALNAA KARTE HAIN. Abhi vah aatmaa patit bani hai. To phir unkey hee sharir may aakar unkaa naam Brahma rakhtaa hun. Pahle2 to yah baath samjhaanee hai. PP se tumraahaa kyaa sambandh hai? -38

= I have to come in impure world. Then only I can purify impure people. Those LN who were worshipworthy only become impure worshippers. SO THIS BRAHMA WHO CREATES ALSO DOES SUSTENANCE. ......
----------------------------------------------
Baba sometimes says- I adopt you. Sometimes says I do not. Brahma adopts.

Note1):- One who influences is creator and one who gets influenced is creation. God is just creator. Man is both creator and creation. Hence we all are Master Creators. When compared with God, Brahma is not creator. But when compared to other human souls, he is creator, because all are influenced by him.

Sometimes Baba wants children/people realize God. At that time Baba says-" Brahma is not creator". Because people think that Brahma created us. But Baba wants to say that it is me who create through Brahma and not that Brahma creates all by himself. Then it becomes easy for him to prove his incarnation

Sometimes baba gives importance to Chariot and directs to follow sakari Father. He stresses that theb Chariot is number one, next to God.


That is why both types of points are there.

2) See the Murli point:- PRAJAPITA Brahma ko bhi creator kehte hai."-----------MU 26.7.77
"PRAJAPITA Brahma is also called creator"-

kahte hai does not mean the speaker(God) agrees to that. Here it means that lowkik people call even Prajapita Brahma also creator. It never means that ShivBaba has certifed it. In fact better/right translation is- (people) call even Prajapita Brahma also as creator.

*This indicates how foolishness/silly it is PBKs coming to immediate judgement that the two are different personalities

mbbhat
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Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 07 Dec 2009

A pbk wrote:- Mu 03-09-68 Baba says ``Brahma koi ek ka naam nahi hai. Bap jismei bhi pravesh karte hai, uska(sharir) naam Brahma rakhna pade``.

I think the pbk meant the following.

= Brahma is not name of one. In whom Father enters his name should be kept brahma.

His arguement was Brahma should be more than one.
--------
But in Hindi koyi = any or some

koyi ek= any one or some one or anyone or someone.

So the above translation can be as follows.

= Brahma cannot be name of anyone. In whom Father enters he should be named as Brahma.

That means baba might be saying - Brahma cannot be name of someone/anyone by his lowkik birth. That is- even if someone's name is kept as Brahma by his lowkik Father, it is incorrect. [Like people may put names of Krishna and Narayan on them. But are they really Krishna? No.].

Similarly Baba might be saying that except this one (DLraj), Brahma cannot be name of anyone.

If PBKs have two sentences adjacent to this Murli point, please put it here.

Thanks to Baba for opening my intellect which gives me more and more light of knowledge.

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Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by shivsena » 10 Dec 2009

Dear Bhat Bhai.

Very good Murli points about prajapita Brahma.

There are two more important points about Brahma.

1. "Brahma ke sankalpon se shristi rachee gayee" ;Who is this Brahma??....what are his sankalp???...and which is this shristi which is created by brahma??

2. "Brahma ke sankalpon se hi swarg ke gate khulenge"; Who is this Brahma who will open the gates of heaven???

Can you please give your views.
shivsena.

mbbhat
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Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 10 Dec 2009

1. "Brahma ke sankalpon se shristi rachee gayee" ;Who is this Brahma??....what are his sankalp???...and which is this shristi which is created by Brahma??

2. "Brahma ke sankalpon se hi swarg ke gate khulenge"; Who is this Brahma who will open the gates of heaven???
I believe there is just one real Brahma = DLraj. He has two stages, vyakt and Avyakt.

Srushti means transformation from hell/Shudra into heaven/braahmin/deity.

When Brahma feels the efforts of children has reached the level expected by drama and hence it is time to return to Paramdham, that thought (feeling) will begin final destruction and souls will return to Paramdham and heaven will get re established.

Brahma's sankalps are given in detail in Avyakt Murlis. At present I do not read them. Hence I cannot list them.

But being in swamaan itself is main sankalp.

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Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by mbbhat » 10 Aug 2012

shivsena wrote:1. "Brahma ke sankalpon se shristi rachee gayee" ;Who is this Brahma??....what are his sankalp???...and which is this shristi which is created by Brahma??

2. "Brahma ke sankalpon se hi swarg ke gate khulenge"; Who is this Brahma who will open the gates of heaven???
My explanation was not enough in the last post.

The point is- Any creation has two steps. first, the need of knowledge and the second is implementation.

While delivering the knowledge mouth of brahma is needed and it is ShivBaba who is creator during that time. Just braahimins are created by knowledge.

But, when the point of implementation comes, it is thought power of Brahma that counts. Then the creator part is like through Brahma. [shiv stands back and brahma is in front].

Hence in lowkik, it is said both- thorugh brahma's mouth, Brahmins were created and through Brahma's thoughts srushti is created.
---------
The srushti here means total practical output*, but mainly heaven. It is according to state of thoughts of Brahma (of course, other children are also there together- 108 souls). So- the value or state of heaven is decided by thought power of Brahma.

The same brahma will open the gates of heaven. but he should feel that his hands (mainly 108 souls) have reached level where it is expected. This will be green signal for physical transformation.

*Baba says- through your thought power put seal on others (fix others'role in drama)- jisko mukti may bhejnaa hai, usey vahaan bhejo. jisko vaaris, prajaa, etc etc = not exact words.

since Brahma sill become visnhu, and power come to hand of Vishnu, everything practically depends on Brahma first and then his hands numberwise.

The first mala is of brahma. And then of Rudr (Shiv), and then it is of Vishnu.

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Re: POSSIBILITIES/CAUSES OF WRONG STEPS BY PBKs:

Post by gopalji123 » 02 Nov 2012

Thanks to all PBKs.

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