ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

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arjun
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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 04 May 2011

shivsena wrote:"ShivBaba ki mahima alag, aur Krishna ki mahima alag."
In the above point ShivBaba (Shiv+Ram=Creator) is compared with the Golden Aged Krishna (Dada Lekhraj=creation).

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by shivsena » 04 May 2011

Roy wrote: Personally, i do not feel Baba Dixit is ever revealed as ShivBaba. ShivBaba is the one Supreme Godfather, revealed to the world in the body of Ram. To call Baba Dixit ShivBaba, is imo, to call him God, which is totally wrong, as he is not.
Roy
Then whom do you call ShivBaba ??...is it bindi shiv in VD !!....but AK teaches that ShivBaba means the combination of shiv+prajapita and not bindi shiv alone......this also means that BKs and PBKs are having the same concept that bindi shiv is ShivBaba and the debate between BKs and PBKs is just about the Chariot.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Roy » 04 May 2011

shivsena wrote:Then whom do you call ShivBaba ??...is it bindi shiv in VD !!....but AK teaches that ShivBaba means the combination of shiv+prajapita and not bindi shiv alone......this also means that BKs and PBKs are having the same concept that bindi shiv is ShivBaba and the debate between BKs and PBKs is just about the Chariot.
ShivBaba for me, is Father Shiv bindi, in the corporeal body of Ram(Baba Dixit); or, ShivBaba = Shiv+Ram. To call Baba Dixit(Ram) ShivBaba though, is inaccurate imo; because Baba Dixit(Ram) is an effort maker soul, up until 2018, not God. Ram(no 1 brahmin soul) is key in the role of ShivBaba; but Ram(Baba Dixit) alone; can never be called or thought of, as ShivBaba. ShivBaba represents the relationship in Sakar(coporeal form), of the Supreme Father Shiv, with His corporeal children. Ram's is a supportive or cooperative role in this, by allowing Father Shiv, to use his body for this purpose. But just as Ram alone can never be thought of as ShivBaba, similarly, without a human Chariot; Father Shiv is not playing the role of ShivBaba. It is easy to see, that because this relationship is so intimate; Shiv and Shankar, are thought to be one being, on the path of Bhakti!

Roy

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by shivsena » 04 May 2011

Roy wrote: Father Shiv is not playing the role of ShivBaba. It is easy to see, that because this relationship is so intimate; Shiv and Shankar, are thought to one being, on the path of Bhakti!
Roy
In the path of Bhakti, Shiva and his shakti is also considered to be one and can never be seperated and Shankar is also associated with Shiva...so we will have to wait and see (as per the revelation in future), which one is the correct belief.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 04 May 2011

shivsena wrote:In the path of Bhakti, Shiva and his shakti is also considered to be one and can never be seperated and Shankar is also associated with Shiva...so we will have to wait and see (as per the revelation in future), which one is the correct belief.
In the path of Bhakti Shiv and shakti are not considered one but equal halves. It is Shiv and Shankar who are considered one and the same. So, please do not spread lies.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by shivsena » 04 May 2011

arjun wrote: In the path of Bhakti Shiv and shakti are not considered one but equal halves. It is Shiv and Shankar who are considered one and the same. So, please do not spread lies.
I am reminded of the saying in Bhakti marg: "Ulta chor kotwaal ko daate".
One who is spreading and propagating a bunch of lies(AK) of his guru is telling others not to spread that Shiva and shakti are one and the same.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by pbkindiana » 04 May 2011

shivsena wrote:
One who is spreading and propagating a bunch of lies(AK) of his guru is telling others not to spread that Shiva and shakti are one and the same.
One who condemns the Guru of PBKs and then use the Guru's corporeal body to reveal his fairy godmother is an epitome of someone who runs fr pillar to post.

indie.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by pbkindiana » 04 May 2011

Roy wrote:
To call Baba Dixit(Ram) ShivBaba though, is inaccurate imo;
Dear Roy Bhai,

When it is said in SM that ShivBaba takes 84 births, then according to you, is it the Incorporeal ShivBaba who takes 84 births?

indie.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Roy » 04 May 2011

pbkindiana wrote:When it is said in SM that ShivBaba takes 84 births, then according to you, is it the Incorporeal ShivBaba who takes 84 births?
Dear Indie Bhai

I am not sure if i have come across this point before? I don't like the term "Incorporeal ShivBaba" particularly though; as it appears to undermine, that the name ShivBaba, represents Father Shiv's relationship with us, via the corporeal Chariot of Ram. What the SM point may be saying; is that, the corporeal Chariot of ShivBaba, takes 84 births; or, that ShivBaba is present(in Sakar) whilst Ram's Sangamyugi shooting of 84 births is occuring!

I am not sure, that calling Ram(Baba Dixit), ShivBaba; is any different to BKs, believing that it was Brahma Baba, who was narrating the Sakar Murlis; and not Father Shiv, through Brahma Baba! I am not saying we have to guess when Father Shiv is actually present in Baba Dixit's body; so we should always have the consciousness, that we are face to face with ShivBaba, in his presence. But i personally, am not comfortable, with thinking of Baba Dixit himself(singularly), as ShivBaba. On the other hand, we do call Baba Dixit Ram, and Shankar; which are roles Father Shiv plays through him, and are names given to his body. But i do wonder; if thinking of Baba Dixit himself as ShivBaba, could be the shooting, of the mixing of Shiv and Shankar; so that it is believed in Bhakti, that they are only one being; which is what Shivsena Bhai has been suggesting, that the PBKs have been doing. This is a crucial point in Gyan, and we need to be sure we are being accurate in our understanding of it. For now, i will stick with keeping away from thinking of Baba Dixit as ShivBaba; and only use the name, when thinking of Father Shiv, in the body of Baba Dixit.

Roy

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 04 May 2011

shivsena wrote:I am reminded of the saying in Bhakti marg: "Ulta chor kotwaal ko daate".
One who is spreading and propagating a bunch of lies(AK) of his guru is telling others not to spread that Shiva and shakti are one and the same.
You may call me a thief or use any other bad word against me but that will not change the fact. In the path of Bhakti 'Shiv (or Shankar) and Parvati (shakti)' are shown as Ardhanaareeshwar (half man and half woman) which means that half body each of two persons are being shown as one person. But in case of Shiv-Shankar, in the path of Bhakti, people believe that they are one and the same soul and not different souls. So, where is its shooting/rehearsal performed? When Shankar becomes equal to Shiv, then people cannot differentiate between the two and hence they think they are one and the same.

If you are on the side of truth you would not use such bad language for others. Use of such bad words only shows your frustration at not being able to convince us on the basis of knowledge or even Bhakti. Anyway, I wish you all the best in your endeavour to defame Baba Dixit. :D

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 04 May 2011

roy wrote:But i do wonder; if thinking of Baba Dixit himself as ShivBaba, could be the shooting, of the mixing of Shiv and Shankar; so that it is believed in Bhakti, that they are only one being; which is what Shivsena Bhai has been suggesting, that the PBKs have been doing.
The soul of Confluence-Age Ram (Baba Dixit) is not ShivBaba as such. He gets this title only when Shiv enters in Him and makes him equal to Himself.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Roy » 04 May 2011

arjun wrote:When Shankar becomes equal to Shiv, then people cannot differentiate between the two and hence they think they are one and the same.
arjun wrote:The soul of Confluence-Age Ram (Baba Dixit) is not ShivBaba as such. He gets this title only when Shiv enters in Him and makes him equal to Himself.
Nice points Arjun Bhai, this is why i/we are glad you frequent this forum, you have a clarity of understanding that is invaluable! Indie Bhai, made a similar point regarding Baba Dixit, answering to the name Ram; in that he will not acknowledge this openly, until he becomes bapsaman.

Thus, if i may just test my understanding of what you are saying; it is not infact inaccurate to think of Baba Dixit as ShivBaba; because he will eventually become bapsaman, and equal to God; thus qualifying him for this title, in his own right. He(Baba Dixit) is never Shiva; that name can only ever be Supreme Father Shiv's eternal name; but he has the right to be called ShivBaba; because of his achievement, in reaching the nirakar(bodiless) stage, and becoming equal to Father Shiv! Thus Indie Bhai's point of ShivBaba taking 84 births, is reflecting this truth!

Please inform me if I am still getting this wrong! :D

Thanks bhais!

Roy

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by Roy » 04 May 2011

arjun wrote:In the path of Bhakti 'Shiv (or Shankar) and Parvati (shakti)' are shown as Ardhanaareeshwar (half man and half woman) which means that half body each of two persons are being shown as one person.
Is this because in the Confluence Age, Ardhanaareeshwar, is the role of Shiv or Shankar(Baba Dixit) playing Father(these two separate souls, becoming totally synonymous in Bhakti), with Brahma Baba playing Mother(Shakti) through the one body of Ram? Or in other words; the special role of Shankar once again.

There's no such thing. Shankar-Parvati are not at all there. This is the corporeal world. [Mu 8-5-70]
What does Shankar do? His part is so wonderful you won't believe. [Mu 14-5-70]


Roy

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by arjun » 05 May 2011

roy wrote:it is not infact inaccurate to think of Baba Dixit as ShivBaba; because he will eventually become bapsaman, and equal to God; thus qualifying him for this title, in his own right. He(Baba Dixit) is never Shiva; that name can only ever be Supreme Father Shiv's eternal name; but he has the right to be called ShivBaba; because of his achievement, in reaching the nirakar(bodiless) stage, and becoming equal to Father Shiv!
yes you are correct.
Thus Indie Bhai's point of ShivBaba taking 84 births, is reflecting this truth!
I am not aware if there is any such Murli point that ShivBaba takes 84 births. It would be nice if indie Bhai could quote that.
Is this because in the Confluence Age, Ardhanaareeshwar, is the role of Shiv or Shankar(Baba Dixit) playing Father(these two separate souls, becoming totally synonymous in Bhakti), with Brahma Baba playing Mother(Shakti) through the one body of Ram?
Yes you are correct.

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Re: ABOUT SRIKRISHNA BIRTH.

Post by pbkindiana » 05 May 2011

Roy wrote:
I am not sure if i have come across this point before? I don't like the term "Incorporeal ShivBaba"
posting few SM of the term incorporeal ShivBaba.

SM 10.4.99 -- "Incorporeal ShivBaba is now present in this body and is teaching you."

SM 23.2.09 --"Incorpreal ShivBaba who is the Father of all souls comes and teaches us rajyog."
if thinking of Baba Dixit himself as ShivBaba, could be the shooting, of the mixing of Shiv and Shankar; so that it is believed in Bhakti, that they are only one being;
The shooting of Bhaktimarg of mixing Shiv and Shankar is because when Shankar emulates Shiva's 100% nirakari stage, then Shankar becomes bhagwan(God) as Shankar is the only deity whose name is suffix to Shiv. Anyone who emulates Shiv's stage is called God/Bhagwan. Even in AK, it is said that when Ram becomes complete, He becomes Bhagwan

which is what Shivsena Bhai has been suggesting, that the PBKs have been doing.
Shivsena is blindly accusing the PBKs of believing Baba Dixit as the personified form of ShivBaba and is trying to propagate that Baba Dixit is Ravan, Maya and Krishna's soul without any references of SM to support his views.

Posting another SM 2.2.09 -- "ShivBaba is also called the spinner of the discus of self-realization." ---So which ShivBaba churns and realizes his 84 births?

indie.

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