Questions for PBKs

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arjun
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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 13 Sep 2012

What the role can be named as?- One more title holder Jagadamba?

Can PBKs list how many mothers and fathers are there in total including all title holders- datewise from 1936?
mbbhat Bhai is free to research himself. :cool: It is not our sanskar to make fun of others' parents. Perhaps he has been taught such things by his lokik parents and the so-called gurus of BKWSU.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 13 Sep 2012

mbbhat wrote:they say - you are maatpitaa.... If Father is omnipresent, then where is mother? these are points to understand. there is need of maatpita, is it not? maatpita is said for the incorporeal. But, they do not understand why maatpita is said to this? He is god Father. then they say adam, eve. Adam only is Eve. (Adam= eve]. They do not understand this. Prajapita brahma. He only then becomes mother. They say adam and eve. but do not understand. Children can understand, (both) Aadam, Beebi in reality is this (Brahma). Beebi is Adam. Unko (he) is called as both adam (and) eve.. ...
Interesting point mbbhat Bhai... and with all due respect to your translation for which i thank you, i would be grateful if Arjun Bhai would also translate it as well, as he is particularly good at this.

I think you also need to look at your point in conjuction with the following point...

"Who is this Prajapita, who is also Mother and Father of all? Since ShivBaba is only Father of all souls... this Brahma(Baba Krishna) is child of ShivBaba as well as wife of ShivBaba... and this Prajapita(Brahma), is both Father and Mother of all. Who is this soul?" [Mu 11.12.01]

Brahma is only a mother, and not the creator Father Adam aka Prajapita... the inheritance is received through the great great Grandfather Adam aka Prajapita, and so he must be here in corporeal form at the end to give it, as this inheritance is yet to be received. The role of both Adam and Eve, matapita or BapDada, is played through Prajapita Brahma from 1969; which is remembered in Bhakti marg as Ardhanarishwar, the Lord who is half woman. Brahma Baba Eve, plays the role of elder mother or Eve, through Prajapita's aka Shankar's body from 1969, as there is no role without a body in this Confluence Age. So if anybody is matapita then it is Prajapita-Ram, and not Brahma Baba Krishna.

Some more points to consider on this matter....

“Prajapita Brahma who is called Adam, is called the Great-Great Grandfather.” [Mu 06.02.76]

"Do not be afraid: Backbone BapDada, will be revealed through some person(Shankar-Prajapita-Ram) when the time comes; and to some Brahmins(co-operative seed souls or PBKs who recognised at this time, from 1969, that Shiv was entering Prajapita, along with Avyakt Brahma), He is being revealed even now." [Av 16.01.75]

"Father (Shiv) takes the support of (Prajapita)Brahma's body. He has to come in Bharat(Prajapita-Shankar) only (to play the role of Father, or the Sun of Knowledge from 1976). Father's birth (or revelation) is also in Bharat(Prajapita-Shankar's body) only. Brahma(Baba Krishna) is also in Bharat(Prajapita-Shankar's body) only (after his death in 1969)." [Mu 27.07.73]

"The Father (Shiv) does not give sorrow to anybody. Father (Shiv) always gives happiness. The one(Brahma Baba Krishna) who gives sorrow is born (or revealed) in Bharat(Prajapita-Ram's body), and the One (Father Shiv) who give happiness is also born (revealed) in Bharat(Prajapita-Ram's body). Bharatwasis (Confluence Age Brahmins) celebrate Shiv-Jayanti, but do not understand its meaning." [Mu 08.12.01]

"Shivjayanti(revelation of Father Shiv to the whole world, through Shankar aka Prajapita-Ram) means the effort of children comes to an end." [Av 06.03.97]

"You can say that the whole story of Ramayana is applicable to Bharat (i.e. Bharat Pita is Ram aka Prajapita-Shankar)." [Mu 12.01.75]

"For as long as Brahma Kumar-Kumari's are in the physical body, Prajapita Brahma is also in the physical body." [Mu 03.11.87]

“When the Brahmins & Brahmanis are in a corporeal form, when they are brothers and sisters, then how will their mother and Father be? Even they should be in a corporeal form.” [Mu 06.11.97]

"Brahma's part(role) is there until the end of the task of the establishment (which had not been completed by 1969, when Brahma Baba Krishna left the body). Until the work of establishment is over, the part (role) of the soul who is instrumental will not be over. It cannot play another role till then. The role of completing the creation of the new world by the World Father (Vishwapita aka Prajapita Brahma) is fixed. Brahma is known for the creation of the different dynasties of the human world. Great-Great-Grand Father (Prajapita Brahma) is praised for that. Only the state(Uttar Pradesh or UP), place(Kampil, Farrukhabad) and speed have changed. Nevertheless, the role of (establishment of Heaven-Ramraj through) (Prajapita)Brahma(Ram) remains the same even now." [Av 30.06.74]

"When there is no body there is no part (or role)." [Mu 05.06.99]

"Incorporeal God Father (Shiv) cannot do any work without corporeal Father (Prajapita Brahma), He cannot play any role (without his corporeal form)." [Mu 06.02.76]

“That one(Ram) is called Prajapita Brahma, through whom the creation(child Krishna Brahma Baba) is created at the beginning(of the Confluence Age in, 1936/7). He (Prajapita-Ram, Father of Humanity) is the Great-Great Grandfather(of all the religious fathers, who follow him throughout the broad Drama). ShivBaba(the incorporeal point) can’t be called Great-Great Grandfather(as He is the Incorporeal Supreme Father of all souls - Parampita).” [Mu 3.05.72]

"Do you know Prajapita Brahma(Ram) and his mouth-born creation (child Krishna Brahma Baba)?" [Mu 17.12.08]

"This Brahma(Baba Krishna) is adopted (at the beginning of the Confluence Age, in 1936/7). Brahmins are (adopted) through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 06.02.71]

"He(Prajapita-Ram) is the creator of heaven(Ramraj) – he is helpful to everyone. Krishna(Brahma Baba) is a creation himself. He(Krishna Brahma Baba) is the first class flower (or first shoot) of the garden (of Eden, or the Golden Age, after 2036, when he is re-born as Prince Krishna)." (Mu 05.02.83]

"This is ShivBaba’s Chariot (Prajapita-Ram), the one who makes the whole world a heaven (which was not achieved through the Chariot of Brahma Baba, before his death in 1969 - note that the date of the Vani, is 1975)." [Av 11.11.75]

"Creator (of Heaven) is not said for Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 13.02.75]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) is not the Creator of Heaven. Only the Incorporeal Supreme Soul (Shiv) comes and creates Heaven(Ramraj), through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called spiritual (or alokik) Father (as he is the true elder mother, who loses his costume before the inheritance is received)." [Mu 28.10.90]

"There's only one Father(Prajapita Brahma) who teaches 500 crores (at the end, through his corporeal form)." [Mu 23.11.75]

"Shri Krishna(Brahma Baba) is creation no. 1, and ShivBaba(Shiv+Prajapita-Ram) is creator no. 1." [Mu 15.08.03]

"ShivBaba bestows the inheritance to Brahmakumaris and Brahmakumars, through (the corporeal Father) Prajapita Brahma(Ram). ShivBaba creates the Brahmin race through (the mother) Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 01.03.76]

"They tell: Satguru akalmurt (the true guru is immortal, he cannot leave his body).If the body itself is not here, then how can He give the true salvation (at the end, when he takes our boats-bodies across)? Then how will He (Father Shiv) become Satguru (without his corporeal Chariot, Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 03.10.74]

If ShivBaba(Shiv+Prajapita) doesn’t play any role He will be of no use. He wouldn’t have any value. He will be held valuable only when he bestows true salvation (sadgati) upon the whole world (at the end). Only then is He praised as Ram, the bestower of true salvation on all (a role he plays through corporeal Prajapita Brahma, not Avyakt Brahma Baba, who has had no corporeal form, since 1969)." [Mu 16.12.74]

"Do you think that we should also leave the body and become Avyakt (like Brahma Baba Krishna)? Do not follow in this matter. Father Brahma(Prajapita-Shankar) became Avyakt (whilst still in the body, in 1976) so that you could see the example of the (practical) Avyakt form, and follow easily." [Av 13.03.81]

"Now the Sun of Knowledge (Prajapita-Shankar) has left the corporeal world (i.e. he begins churning the knowledge in the Murlis, from 1969/70) and is standing in the subtle avaykt world (i.e. his mind and intellect become subtle, detached from the concerns of the corporeal world)." [Av 16.07.69]

"This one (Brahma Baba Krishna) is the moon (of knoweldge mother) of the Sun of Knowledge(Father, ShivBaba - Shiv+Prajapita-Ram)... but because he is male, the urn is placed on the mother(Mama Saraswati)." [Mu 05.09.08]

He (Prajapita-Ram) is called the Sun of Knowledge. The Moon of knowledge, the Sun of Knowledge and the lucky stars of knowledge. OK, the (corporeal) Father (Prajapita-Ram) is the Sun of Knowledge (i.e. this role is played through Shankar, from 1976, by Father Shiv). Then the mother (Brahma Baba Krishna) should be the Moon of knowledge. So, the body (of Brahma Baba Krishna) in which He (Shiv) has entered (at this time) is the Moon of knowledge mother (Incognito Jagadamaba) and the rest of the children are lucky stars." [Mu 11.01.08]

"Everything will be clear, when the Sun of Knowledge rises." (Father Shiv plays this part, through Prajapita Brahma aka Shankar, from 1976) [Mu 22.01.70]

"Moon's quality is to radiate cool light." (The part of the Moon of Knowledge is played through Brahma Baba Krishna. This is the time when no-one truly understands the deeper aspects of the Sakar Murlis, and also being the Mother role of tolerance and affection, the scorpion-like children who eventually break Brahma Baba's heart, are allowed to flourish) [Mu 15.09.69]

This is the Sun of Knowledge(Prajapita-Ram). This secret (or incognito) Mama(Brahma Baba Krishna) is different(i.e. has a different role to Prajapita). This secret is hardly understood or explained by anyone. The name of that Mama is different... temples are built for her. Is there any temple for this secret old Mother(Brahma Baba Krishna)?" [Mu 17.11.77]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) is your elder mummy. But many children have not recognized completely. Now they are still recognizing." [Mu 01.05.73]

"Mama(Brahma Baba Krishna) is incognito. Brahma(Baba) is (the true elder) mother, but the body is male." [Mu 11.11.05]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) who has ascended to the Subtle Regions, cannot be called Prajapita - Creation is done in the Corporeal World, not in the Subtle Regions. So the creator Prajapita(Shankar aka the Sun of Knowledge), has to be in the Corporeal World (until the end)." [Mu 05.11.92]

"Prajapita Brahma will be here (in corporeal form) only. His(Brahma Baba Krishna's) last birth is Lekhraj. He cannot become (the true) Prajapita (as he loses many years of corporeal life whilst playing the subtle Avyakt role)." [Mu 21.08.73]

"He (Dada Lekhraj) was a jeweller... (but) how can he be Prajapita (when he doesn't remain in corporeal form throughout the Confluence Age, to be witnessed in practical form as being the Father of Humanity by the whole world)?" [Mu 29.07.77]

"Highest Father should enter in the highest person (Prajapita Brahma, to play the role of Father). People(BKs) think that Shri Krishna(Pitashri Brahma Baba) is the highest." [Mu 11.02.69]

"Nobody (in the Brahmin family) knows this. (True) Brahmins do not exist in the name of Krishna(Brahma Baba). The apex of Brahmins is in the name of (Prajapita)Brahma(Ram). You can say gathering of (true) Brahmins, in the name of (Prajapita)Brahma.” [Mu 14.02.09]


Roy

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 14 Sep 2012

Roy wrote:1)The role of both Adam and Eve, matapita or BapDada, is played through Prajapita Brahma from 1969; which is remembered in Bhakti marg as Ardhanarishwar, the Lord who is half woman. 2)Brahma Baba Eve, plays the role of elder mother or Eve, through Prajapita's aka Shankar's body from 1969, as there is no role without a body in this Confluence Age.
It appeared to me that they are contradictory- because according to 1), Eve is Mr. Dixit, and according to 2), Eve is Brahma Baba.

That is why I questioned. This ambiguity was not addressed fully.

So- can it be said- according to PBKs, role of Adam is played to the extent of 100% by Dixit and role of Eve is played by both dixit and Brahma Baba?

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 14 Sep 2012

mbbhat wrote:So- can it be said- according to PBKs, role of Adam is played to the extent of 100% by Dixit and role of Eve is played by both dixit and Brahma Baba?
Speaking on behalf of myself and not the PBKs... the only thing i would state emphatically, is that Ram(Baba Dixit) is the true Adam, and that Krishna(Dada Lekhraj Brahma) is the true Eve. But because Prajapita Brahma(Ram) has the parts of both mother and Father played through him, he is the one that your point appears to me to be saying, can be called both Adam and Eve. But i am not sure you could say the role of Adam is played 100% by Baba Dixit, as Dada Lekhraj Brahma, is title holder Prajapita in his absence form the Yagya, between 1942 and 1969.

Roy

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by shivsena » 24 Sep 2012

Roy wrote: But i am not sure you could say the role of Adam is played 100% by Baba Dixit, as Dada Lekhraj Brahma, is title holder Prajapita in his absence form the Yagya, between 1942 and 1969.
Roy
Dear roy Bhai.

Do PBKs have any concrete proof that Virendra Dev Dixit was in the Yagya as supposed sevakram between 1937-42 ??...this is only a hypothesis presented by PBKs on the basis of only one evidence in the comic book of BKs (where sevakram is mentioned)...there is no mention of any sevakram in any Murli....the whole adv-Gyan is based on this fact that sevakram was Virendra Dev Dixit in previous birth and if this is not true, then the whole adv-Gyan falls flat.

shivsena.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 24 Sep 2012

shivsena wrote:Do PBKs have any concrete proof that Virendra Dev Dixit was in the Yagya as supposed sevakram betweenhivsena 1937-42 ??...this is only a hypothesis presented by PBKs on the basis of only one evidence in the comic book of BKs (where sevakram is mentioned)...there is no mention of any sevakram in any Murli....the whole adv-Gyan is based on this fact that sevakram was Virendra Dev Dixit in previous birth and if this is not true, then the whole adv-Gyan falls flat.
Dear Shivsena Bhai

We know from the Murlis that Prajapita Brahma was there at the very beginning of the Yagya, and that he gave spiritual birth to Brahma Baba Krishna indirectly, through the mother Gita, Jagadamba. So it is no great stretch to believe that the lokik name of Prajapita at this time was Sevak Ram, the business partner of Dada Lekhraj, and someone in whom he apparantly had complete faith.

Below is an extract from pages 15-16 of Dadi Nirmal Shanta's autobiography... http://brahmakumaris.info/download/BK%2 ... Shanta.pdf

Lakhi Raj-Sewak Ram & Sons

"In the days of British rule, when Kolkata was the capital of India, my Father went to establish a business there. This was not only because Kolkata was the main centre of attraction where the British carried out most of their business, but also several of Baba's kith and kin were living in the city. One of them was Sewak Ram, a most sincere person who was Baba's regular confidant. Baba and he formed a partnership and opened a jewellery shop named Lakhi Raj-Sewak Ram & Sons. Dealing in pearls and diamonds, it was situated on the first floor of a seven-storey building at 7-A, Lindsay Street, Surana Mansion, opposite Charles Hogg Market, more commonly called New Market, a renowned business centre in Kolkata. We resided on the second storey of the building and the family of Sewak Ram resided on the third storey."


I have faith that at the correct time, proof of this will be presented for all to see.

Roy

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by fluffy bunny » 24 Sep 2012

Roy wrote:... opposite Charles Hogg Market
That made me smile. The old dear's memory ... or who ever writes this stuff for her ... was a little mixed up.
  • "Charlie Hogg" is the trust-fund BK who pretty much runs the BKWSU in Australia.

    Sir Stuart Hogg market is in Kolkatta, aka SS Hogg Market or New Market, Kolkata.
I guess the problem is a lot of the BKs' stuff is written by people who were not there ... but the real problem we have is with the attitude of the BKs who are just plainly ignorant and arrogant about all this stuff. You see it with mbbhatt here. I think we're a lot closer to identifying who the Sevak Ram/Shewakram character is then most people realise.

On the one hand, the BKWSU leaders could click their fingers and have a 1,000 kumaris working on resolving it all tomorrow or they could just be open and honest ... but they won't. Their too busy plunder as much wealth as they can, like the Mughals, whilst they still reign. On the other, even when confronted with an overbearing preponderance of evidence, they'll still ignore it and pretend it does not matter.

Actually, I think they know mostly. I think the inner circle knew along but were just too proud to admit it. They thought they would get away with it all and were just enjoying their Golden Age too much.

It's minor but the address much be incomplete too ... it must be 7/1-a, 7/2-a or something like that. It's like piecing together a jigsaw puzzle.

What a dump ...
2174350791_bcba341c68_b.jpg

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 24 Sep 2012

By proving Sevakram was partner of DL is not enough. PBKs need to prove his age. And- that he was in Yagya from 1936 till 1947 and the other two sisters/mothers whom they claim.

And, why not reports of lowkik people mention name Sevakram as a member of Om Mandli but is clearly says about Brahma Baba lot many things? The reports prove DL was the only leader and in female side Mama. Even in all pictures- there is picture of BBaba and Mama, not of Sevakram.
--------

The name Sevakram is present in the book being sold at BKWSU even today. I have seen just in the last month in the English version of the book "bachchon kaa Baba"


Another point against PBKs is- it is said- when DL decided to close the business, Sevakram was highly unhappy. (Because he was not so capable in doing business). And while dividing the property, DL agreed to the terms put by him. Means- DL did not fight for the right share.

And Murli points do never mention that- it was partner who gave clarification to DL to his visions. It says- gradually, DL understood.

Hence just by pointing to the name Sevakram, nothing proves in favour of PBKs.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by arjun » 25 Sep 2012

When mbbhat Bhai is not ready to share old Murlis then he should not expect any proofs from the PBKs either. Anyways, we have already provided many proofs from the Murlis regarding the personality (Brahma Baba's partner) from whom he got the clarification of his visions which he did not get from his gurus in Pakistan or at Benares.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2012

I am not expecting any answer from PBKs. If PBKs wish, they can reply. else, it is OK for me.

My question to them was just like how PBKs put/throw questions to BKs.
-----
And they sometimes say role of Adam and Eve both were played by VD, sometimes say- eve is Brahma Baba. Just contradictions. OK, it is fine. I have no objections. I just checked to what extent they are able to explain.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 25 Sep 2012

Thank you for the corrections fluffy Bhai.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 25 Sep 2012

Dear mbbhat Bhai

I am always grateful to read the excellent points you present here and on facebook... but it appears you don't really study them that closely yourself, as you would have realised by now, the role of riddler ShivBaba was playing through the Sakar Murlis. The Murlis contain riddles to be solved by the children, and then there are many pieces that have to be fitted together like a jigsaw puzzle... But without the help of ShivBaba Himself to point us in the right direction, we don't really know where to start. It appears this is true of yourself... You don't understand a lot of what the Murli is saying, and have no chance of getting to the bottom of the riddles without advance Gyan to help you.

For example, the Murlis tell us that Brahma was adopted by Prajapita Brahma, and that Krishna took birth through the mother Gita. Without the help of ShivBaba in the clarification Murlis, no-one has been able to see that Krishna Brahma Baba was adopted by Prajapita Brahma, through the mother Gita, when it was she who clarified Brahma Baba's visions for him, after having these explained to her first by Prajapita Brahma. Prajapita is the creator Father, who plants the seed of knowledge in the mother Gita; and this is how the family of Brahmins begins to get born, through the World Mother and Father, Jagapita and Jagatmata.

"God(Shiv) is the creator of World Mother(Jagadamba-Gita Mata) and World Father(Prajapita-Ram) through whom the desires of souls get fulfilled." [Mu 10.03.12]

A few more points on this matter...

"Highest Father should enter in the highest person (Prajapita-Ram, to play the role of Father). People(BKs) think that Shri Krishna(Pitashri Brahma Baba) is the highest." [Mu 11.02.69]

"Those people (of the outside world) do not understand the meaning of vaanprasth as well. They have to enter the vaanprastha stage; this is why they feel that they should seek a guru. They seek a guru after 60 years age. This rule has started now (in the Confluence Age). The Father says – I become his (Prajapita-Ram's) Satguru in the vaanprastha stage (because he was 60 in 1936, whilst in his 83rd birth) at the end of the many births of this one (Brahma Baba Krishna, who was about 50 in 1936, and in his 84th birth)." [Mu 20.07.09]

"Those who come first (at the beginning of the Confluence Age, in their 83rd births)... only (they) remain till the end (in practical bodily form, in their 84th births). It’s a wonderful drama, isn’t it?" [Mu 06.03.74]

“The children who left their mortal coils(i.e. their 83rd body) will surely return to the Brahmin clan (in their 84th body).” [Mu 17.02.74]

"This Brahma(Baba Krishna) is adopted (at the beginning of the Confluence Age, in 1936/7). Brahmins are (adopted) through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 06.02.71]

“That one is called Prajapita Brahma(Ram) through whom the creation (child Krishna Brahma Baba) is created at the beginning (of the Confluence Age). He(Ram) is the Great-Great Grandfather.” [Mu 03.05.72]

“ShivBaba(Shiv+Prajapita-Ram) created the mother Gita(Jagadamba). Krishna(Brahma Baba, then) took (spiritual) birth (through her, as the Father does not give birth directly - rather, he plants or sows the seed of knowledge in the mother, who then gives spiritual birth to the children, through her 'womb-like intellect'). Radhe and all others come along with them.” [Mu 14.12.93;13.12.98]

"Father (Shiv) with the help of mother (Gita Mata-Jagadamba) caused the (spiritual) birth of Krishna(Brahma Baba, when she explained the meaning of his visions to him). But they (the BKs of the Confluence Age) set Krishna(Pitashri Brahma Baba) as the creator of Gita (through their worship of him as Prajapati God Brahma in the early days of the Yagya, which led them to eventually place the name Pitashri before ShivBaba's in the Murli after Mama's death, in 1965) whereas the true creator of the Gita is Shiva. With the help of that Gita(Mata-Jagadmaba) He created Krishna (Brahma Baba, at the beginning of the Confluence Age)." [Mu 14.12.93]

"Krishna(Brahma Bab) has also taken (spiritual) birth through the womb(-like intellect, of Gita Mata-Jagadamba, in whom the seed of knowledge was planted by Father Shiv, through Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 21.08.03]

"You should not have your sight on any bodily being. Krishna(Brahma Baba) is also a human (with a) child(-like intellect), (who) takes (spiritual) birth from the womb(-like intellect, of Gita Mata-Jagadamba, after the seed of knowledge was been implanted in her, by the creator Father, Prajapita-Ram)." [Mu 28.08.03]

"It is said that Ashtavakra gave knowledge to Janak! But this (Advance Godly Knowledge) is not a Brahm Gyaan(knowledge of 'Brahm') This is Brahma Gyaan(knowledge of 'Prajapita Brahma'). (Prajapita)Brahmakumaris are giving this (advance) knowledge, not Brahmkumaris(those Brahmin Dadis and children attached to Brahma Baba Krishna, whose intellect was inert like the Brahm element, whilst he remained in the physical body). Those people(BKs) consider Brahm(a Baba Krishna, the mother with the corporeal or inert intellect) to be God(Prajapati God Brahma in the very beginning of the Yagya, and these Bhakti sanskars of worship still remain). But no... God is Father(the role played through Shankar aka Prajapita-Ram). Father's name is Shiv(or Shiv Shankar Bholenath when in living corporeal form). Brahm is an (inert) element (representing the corporeal or inert intellect of the mother, Brahma Baba Krishna)." [Mu 22.03.07]

"Prajapita Brahma is also anadi(without beginning - the all-rounder soul, who stays in the cycle in corporeal form for the full 5000 years). Father of all the souls (Shiv) has come in him(Prajapita-Ram, in the very beginning of the Confluence Age). He has to come and adopt the (first class child) Brahma(Baba Krishna, in 1936)." [Mu 19.07.73; 20.07.78]

"Shri Krishna(Brahma Baba) is the number one, the first Prince (of the Golden Age, which he becomes at birth, after 2036). He becomes Shri Narayan when he is 20-25 years of age. For him, the full 84 births (of 5000 years duration) cannot be said either (because he loses many years of corporeal life from his 84th birth, whilst playing the Avyakt Brahma role in the Confluence Age). (Confluence Age) Shri Krishna (or Prajapita-Ram) is (the) number one (child of Father Shiv - i.e. he is next to Shiv), and he then becomes (Confluence Age) Narayan after his marriage (to Confluence Age Lakshmi or Sita). However, children have to keep an account(i.e. understand the difference between the two Krishnas). Only (Confluence Age) Shri Krishna (or Prajapita-Ram) is said to take the full 84 births in 5000 years(i.e. he remains in corporeal form for the full 5000 year duration of the Drama Cycle). The Father sits here and explains: Every cycle I enter the same body of the one(Prajapita-Ram) who plays a (corporeal) part from the beginning to the end (not even a day less of corporeal life, than 5000 years). I(Shiv) cannot enter anyone else’s body (to play the role of Father). There is this account (of Drama). (Prajapita)Brahma is number one(i.e the no 1 child)... How could I enter anyone else’s body (to play the role of Father)?" [Mu 20.09.06]

"Shri Krishna(Brahma Baba) is creation no. 1; and ShivBaba(Shiv+Prajapita-Ram) is creator no. 1." [Mu 15.08.03]

"Creator (of Heaven) is not said for Brahma(Baba Krishna)." [Mu 13.02.75]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) is not the Creator of Heaven. Only the Incorporeal Supreme Soul (Shiv) comes and creates Heaven(Ramraj), through Prajapita Brahma(Ram)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"Nobody (in the Brahmin family) knows this. (True) Brahmins do not exist in the name of Krishna(Brahma Baba). The apex of Brahmins is in the name of (Prajapita)Brahma(Ram). You can say gathering of (true) Brahmins, in the name of (Prajapita)Brahma.” [Mu 14.02.09]

"He(Prajapita-Ram) is the creator of heaven(Ramraj) – he is helpful to everyone. Krishna(Brahma Baba) is a creation himself. He(Krishna Brahma Baba) is the first class flower (or first shoot) of the garden (of Eden, or the Golden Age, after 2036, when he is re-born as Prince Krishna)." (Mu 05.02.83]

"Shri Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called Vrikshapati(master or husband of the world tree). The Supreme Father (Shiv, via the) Supreme (human effort maker) Soul (Prajapita-Ram) is the seed-like creator of the human world. Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called the creator (because he is the first class creation, the creation of Prajapita-Ram). He is always a human being with deity-like virtues." [Mu 22.02.98]

"Do you know Prajapita Brahma(Ram) and his mouth-born creation (child Krishna Brahma Baba)?" [Mu 17.12.08]

"Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is the head(seed) of the whole genealogical tree. We Brahmins, the mouth-born creation of Brahma, are claiming our inheritance from him(Prajapita-Ram, not Brahma Baba Krishna)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"Through Prajapita Brahma(Ram) (I Father Shiv) give the (practical) property; and Prajapita(Ram) is the only husband of the tree(Vrikshapati, the seed of the Human World Tree)." [No details at present]

"There are no true (complete) Brahmins in the (Confluenced Aged) world now (before 1976)." [Mu 02.12.03]

"This one (Brahma Baba Krishna) is the moon (of knoweldge mother) of the Sun of Knowledge(Father, Ram ShivBaba - Shiv+Prajapita-Ram)... but because he is male, the urn is placed on the mother(Mama Saraswati)." [Mu 05.09.08]

"It is this Brahma(Baba Dada Lekhraj) who becomes Shri Krishna (first prince of the Golden Age). Brahma(Ram) is called Prajapita, the Father of the People. Krishna(Brahma Baba) cannot be called this. Incorporeal God (Shiv) created Brahmins through the mouth of Brahma(Baba Krishna). Shri Krishna was a small child(Brahma Baba was not strong in Gyan - child intellect). The God of the Gita is the Incorporeal Supreme Soul (who is revealed to the world in corporeal form, through the soul with the greatest human intellect, Prajapita-Ram, as Shiv Shankar Bholenath). The Krishna soul(Brahma Baba Dada Lekhraj) made effort and claimed that status (of first prince of the Golden Age). Only first-class children can explain this deep aspect tactfully." [Mu 01.02.03]

"He(Prajapita-Ram) stayed (with Dada Lekhraj) for 10 years... she(Sita-Adi Radha aka Lakshmi) used to enter trance. They used to teach Mama(Om Radhe) and Baba(Dada Lekhraj) the drill (of meditation). Baba used to enter into them and give directions... they commanded so much respect. They are not present today. There wasn’t so much knowledge at that time." [Mu 25.07.67]

"This Dada was not a Brahmin before (he had his visions explained to him by Gita Mata-Jagadamba). Actually there was an elder (or more knowledgeable) Brahmin (through whom Dada Lekhhraj's visions were clarified - Prajapita-Ram). But he had left (by 1942)." [Mu 10.07.87, 08.07.92]

"Very nice children (Prajapita-Ram1 & Sita-Adi Radhe2), who used to play very nice roles for 5(1)-10(2) years (at the beginning of the Yagya), get defeated (due to the lack of knowledge available at this time). This is a Warfield. One should not leave Baba’s remembrance." [Mu 08.07.78]


Without first understanding the deeper meaning of Murli points, and then without putting the pieces together... one cannot hope to get to the bottom of the truth.

Roy

mbbhat
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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2012

Roy soul wrote:- For example, the Murlis tell us that Brahma was adopted by Prajapita Brahma,
Where? Can you mention?

And it is unfortunate that- the Murli points written by you have lots of errors. And since you do not write in Hindi, cross verification is not possible.

Can you say- from where do you get Murli points?- From pbk literature? And if you do just copy and paste and do not add anything of your own, then doubt arises on the correctness of the pbk literature.
---------------------
Just to show how PBKs misinterpret Murli points.
Roy soul wrote:- "This Dada was not a Brahmin before (he had his visions explained to him by Gita Mata-Jagadamba). Actually there was an elder (or more knowledgeable) Brahmin (through whom Dada Lekhhraj's visions were clarified - Prajapita-Ram). But he had left (by 1942)." [Mu 10.07.87, 08.07.92]
I got the Murli point. It is below.
SM 10-7-87(3):- Yah Dada koyi braahman nahin thaa. Bhal asul badey braahman thay. Parantu vah chod diyaa na.

= This Dada was not brahmin (BK) before. Of course, actually he was a famous (lowkik) braahmin. But, (he) left that (lowkik braahminary), is it not?
" Of course, actually, he was a famous (lowkik) braahmin. But, (he) left that (lowkik braahminship) is it not?" is purposely changed as

"Actually there was an elderly brahmin. But he had left"

Note the elimination of the word- "is it not" to prevent any doubt rising there.
------------------------------------
It is a great thing to know that there are many such errors deliberately done in pbk literatures.

Who prepares it? Is it done personally by the Chariot or with the help of other PBKs? And does ShivBaba of PBKs certify such things ?

mbbhat
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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by mbbhat » 25 Sep 2012

Another mis interpretation
roy soul wrote:- "For as long as Brahma Kumar-Kumari's are in the physical body, Prajapita Brahma(Ram) is also in the physical body." [Mu 03.11.87]
The actual Murli point is below.
= SM 3-11-87(2):- Hum BKKyaan Sakar may hain toh PPB bhi Sakar may hain. Is raaz ko aakar samjho. Hum is Dada ko bhagavaan nahin kahtey.

= We BKs are in corporeal, so PPB is also in corporeal. Come and understand this secret. We do not call this Dada as God.
The word- "as long as" - is purposefully added. And the word "WE" is removed.

Why cannot PBKs add brackets where they put their words additionally?
----------
Actually, one can argue that this Murli point may be valid up to 1969. But, when the word - "as long as" is added, then his weightage on argument decreases.

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Re: Questions for PBKs

Post by Roy » 25 Sep 2012

Dear mbbhat Bhai

Thank you for your original Hindi points. Unfortunately i am at a distinct disadvantage, as i know very little Hindi, and don't have the Murlis that i understand you have. I take my points from many sources, including yourself... and when i find more accurate or detailed representations of them, i throw out the old ones. The interpretations presented in brackets are for the most part my own, based on my understanding of advance knowledge. It is an ongoing project of mine to present Murli points as accurately as possible, but with interpretations of them placed in brackets, in order to give the true picture of the Confluence Age. No one Murli point in isolation can obviously do that.

However, by pointing out some errors in translation or interpretation which is accurate... you avoid addressing the collective message that the Murli points provide. I know that not all of these points i have presented are wrong; but by correctly pointing out some errors, you feel you don't have to address the collective truth they represent.

I shall in future quote the point below in the following form, based on your corrections, for which i am sincerely grateful. Please continue to point out any inaccuracies in my points, as i do not wish to present inaccurate knowledge to anyone.

"We BKs are in corporeal (form), so Prajapita Brahma is also in corporeal (form, for as long as we remain so)." [Mu 03.11.87]

I make this interpretation not in isolation, but based on other Murli points that support this. Here are just a few, but there are many many more...

"The Subtle Region Brahma(Baba Krishna) cannot be called as Prajapita Brahma. Prajapita Brahma is here in this world." [Mu 02.04.77]

"How can Prajapita Brahma be in the Subtle Region?" [Mu 05.05.76]

"Brahma(Baba Krishna) who has ascended to the Subtle Regions, cannot be called Prajapita - Creation is done in the Corporeal World, not in the Subtle Regions. So the creator Prajapita has to be in the Corporeal World." [Mu 05.11.92]


So yes, thank you once again for pointing out this error of presentation. It appears that over time, the interpretation i have now placed in brackets, has come to be been shown as part of the original Murli narration, which it clearly is not. You are doing good service in pointing out these errors, please continue to do so.

The other point you highlighted is not so easy to address, based on your translation... But once again this is one inaccuracy, amongst many other points which reveal that Brahma Baba Krishna was not the first human being God Father Shiv entered to play the role of Prajapita... and so to cling to this belief despite all the evidence to the contrary, reveals powerful sanskars of Bhakti imo. If you can prove that all my points are inaccurate, then i shall have to review my stance... but until then i remain convinced that advance knowledge is the truth.

Roy

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