Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 23 Mar 2010

Disc.CD No. 419 at DENTAL

Student: Baba, Ram becomes Ravan and Krishna becomes Kans. [Suppose] Ram has played the role of Ravan and Krishna has played the role of Kans… which roles will they play after that?
Baba: After that?
Student: Yes, after the end of these roles.
Baba: The role of which yuga comes after the Iron Age (Kaliyug)?
Student: It is the Confluence Age.
Baba: First satopradhan , then rajopradhan and then tamopradhan . Every soul plays the role in the same manner indeed. When he is satopradhan, he plays the role of Ram. When he is tamopradhan, he plays the role of Ravan.
Student: Baba, then there will be so.
me particular time for these roles.

Baba: Why not? The life span (age) of those of which dynasty is the longest? The lifespan of those of the Sun Dynasty (Suryavansh) and the Moon Dynasty (Chandravansh) is the longest, but do the Suryavanshis (those belonging to the Sun dynasty) and the Chandravanshis (those belonging to the Moon dynasty) make purusharth (special effort for the soul) together or separately? Does Ram’s soul make his purusharth taking Krishna’s soul along with him or does he make purusharth and go ahead? He does his purusharth along with him (Krishna’s soul). So, on the stage-like world, the souls of the religion who have come first play satopradhan part first of all. It doesn’t matter whether they play Ram’s role or Krishna’s role. And in the very end they play the tamopradhan roles. Whose lifespan is the longest? The lifespan of those very souls (Ram and Krishna) is the longest. So, when will the tamsi (degraded) part be played? Compared to the other souls will it be played in the beginning or in the end?
Student: It will be playd in the beginning.
Baba: Will it be played in the beginning? (Someone said: in the end.) Do the souls belonging to the Deity Religion enjoy happiness for a long time or do the souls belonging to the other religions enjoy happiness for a long time? The souls of the Deity Religion enjoy happiness for a longer time. They enjoy happiness meaning they remain satvik (pure). And in the end they become tamsi. So, the souls of Ram and Krishna are the leading ones among those souls; therefore in the very end, when everyone has shown the wonders of their quality of darkness or ignorance, meaning [they show] who can become degraded to which extent, then, at the end, this Father and his son show their wonder.
Student: No Baba, will it happen around 36-37?
Baba: (It will happen) at the time when it will be the end time.
Baba: What is the cause for destruction ? Destruction takes place through impurity. The one who becomes more pure also becomes impure to that extent. Therefore Baba says: “Children your Father has come. You won’t be able to become tamopradhan to the extent to cause destruction of the world. You will just keep striving and make the world strive! Let us finish this task quickly. ”
Student: Baba, around 2036’-37’ the roles of Ram and Ravan…
Baba: The roles of Ram and Ravan?
Student: No, as Ram becomes Ravan, Krishna becomes Kans?
Baba: It is about the role played within 5000 years. He becomes Ravan from Ram (within 5000 years).
Student: Around 2036’-37’?
Baba: Yes. Only iron can cut iron, only poison can destroy poison. When the whole world becomes tamopradhan, who is require to destroy that tamopradhan world?
Student: Baba, will the super sensual happiness (atindriya sukh) be experienced after the tamopradhan stage or before the tamopradhan stage?
Baba: The Father has come as a foreigner (videshi). Or is he a foreigner (in reality)?
Student: He has become and come as a foreigner.
Baba: So, there is the ‘Karnataka zone’, isn’t there? He is said to be their head. The people of Karnataka zone have received first class teachers in Godly service, the ones who perform (natak karne wale). So, in one way the souls of Ram and Krishna are performers. Therefore it is said: “If BapDada want, they can go back even now.”
Student: Baba, it is not clear yet.
Baba: Why?
Student: When will the stage of super sensual happiness be experienced?
Baba: Beyond (atit) + organs (indriyon); will we experience super sensual happiness when we are beyond the consciousness of the organs, or will there be the super sensual happiness when we are in the consciousness of the organs ? Even if there are the organs, the stage should become beyond [the experience of] the organs. Then we will experience the super sensual happiness.
Student: It will happen in the end, won’t it?
Baba: Yes. Both these go together. You have been already explained how to practice it. Be in the corporeal stage right now, and the next moment in the subtle stage, and in the next moment in the incorporeal stage.
Student: Baba has said that the one who does 9 types of devotion (naudha Bhakti) experiences visions….
Baba: It was said that the one who is a more elevated devotee soul (bhaktatma) , he experiences visions . (It happens to) the devotee soul. There is no need of experiencing visions at all for the knowledgeable soul (gyaani-tu-atma) . So, in which stage are the people of the basic knowledge? Are they in the stage of a devotee or in the stage of a knowledgeable one? They are in the stage of a devotee.
Student: The Father Himself laid the foundation…
Baba: Of what? The foundation of what?
Student: When the Father became a foreigner, the children also became foreigners.
Baba: How will all the children become foreigners? The Father becomes a foreigner to teach the foreigners and He becomes a foreigner to meet all the children. Is there any need for the children to meet everyone?
Student: What is called ‘9 types of devotion’?
Baba: Just as there are souls belonging to 9 religions; so when they sit in remembrance, they sit in remembrance in their own way. Is their physical symbol of different types or of only one type?
Students: Of different types.
Baba: There are 9 religions, so how many physical symbols do they have? There are 9 types [of symbols]. Their knowledge is of 9 types (one of each). In the same way, there are 9 types of devotion. In devotion there are names, but in knowledge there is work (according to the name) . Here people remember, and there people chant names.
Student: Baba, the quality of tolerance and the quality of confronting; which one do those belonging to the Sun Dynasty and the Moon Dynasty especially have?
Baba: The Sun and the Ocean; the Sun has the energy to burn into ashes any type of rubbish and any type of odor. And even the ocean faces [ rubbish], it confronts through the waves. Then, it is not that it only confronts. It also assimilates it within itself. It means it has the power of tolerance as well as the power of assimilation. They are indeed the Suryavanshis , because the foundation will be laid through their dynasty; the new world will be created. Afterwards, those belonging to the Moon Dynasty are added in the form of helpers. They are the ones who tolerate; they are cool.
Student: Baba, it is said only the shaktis become instruments in destruction.
Baba: Yes.
Student: When do they become instruments in destruction?
Baba: When they become tamsi (degraded).
Student: Baba, in the tamsi [stage] the destruction that is done; one thing is the destruction of the Brahmin family and the other is the destruction of the world.
Baba: Whose destruction will take place first?
Student: The destruction of the Brahmin family will take place first.
Baba: Yes. When it happens a subtle level, it will automatically keep happening on a physical level [as well].
Student: Baba, when the destruction takes place in a collective form, how will Brahmins do the tapasya in Mount Abu?
Baba: If the destruction takes place, will the impure ones be destroyed or the pure ones?
Students: The impure ones.
Baba: It doesn’t matter whether it is the world of basic (knowledge) or it is the world of the advance (knowledge) or it is the outside world. The destruction has to take place of only the souls who are the ones to creat impure vibrations. The shaktis have been made instruments. Shiva remains neutral. Otherwise the blame can come upon ShivBaba.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 24 Mar 2010

Disc.CD No. 419 at DENTAL

Student: In one Avyakt Vani Baba has said that the purusharth which is done with help of means is not so good as compared to the purusharth done without being dependant on means.
Baba: It is correct.
Student: How should we children do (purusharth)?
Baba: We will do the purusharth according to the power we have. Do we have the power to become independent? It means, do we have developed a habit of doing purusharth without the systems (tantra) of the body , the organs. These hands, legs, nose, eyes, ears are means, aren’t they? The organs are also means. Can we do the service of creating [a peaceful] atmosphere without them? We have to change the world . We certainly have to change (the world), but have we awakened the spiritual power to such a level that we don’t need to move the organs of action, and we don’t need to see through the eyes too, the physical eyes and don’t even need to talk as well; yet we change the atmosphere. A ferocious animal come in front of us and it surrenders itself [to us]; a ferocious man comes to kill us and he changes. Have you become independent to this extent? If you have become so, it doesn’t matter if you leave the means! (But) if you haven’t become so ...do you obtain the means only because of the fortune of your previous births or do you obtain the means without the fortune of the previous births? If someone has done good purusharth, if he has performed good actions in his birth, in this birth he obtains means easily. So should he make use of those means or not? He should use them. If they are obtained easily, you should use them. However, there is no need to become dependent [on them].
Student: Baba, the vibration spreads all around…
Baba: The more power you have, it will spread that farther.
Student: When we give searchlight, does the power go in a particular direction, like when we remember someone?
Baba: As far as the direction is concerned, will it go only in the east direction? It will go in the direction you send it.
Student: Baba, the means which have been invented through science like the T.V or the tape recorder and so on, it is about that too.
Baba: All the means which are there and whoever are receiving whichever means , are they receiving them on the basis of the karmic accounts of their previous births or are they receiving them without the karmic accounts. If they have performed good deeds, many means are available to them. And some people have performed such actions that they don’t receive any means at all. There are many people who don’t even have a bicycle and there are many people who have airplanes and helicopters. So, if someone utilizes whatever means he has, whatever is available to him, in Godly service, will his fortune be made or not? It will.
Student: Has Baba given the name ‘Prakashmani’ to Dadi.
Baba: Yes. In the beginning many names were given. Trance messengers (sandeshi) brought many names through visions. Later on those ones (who were given names) started leaving the knowledge, so he (Brahma Baba) stopped giving names.
Student: In one Murli Baba said: ‘The teacher leaves his home and comes to teach you. Where is the home and from where did knowledge of the Gita come?’
Baba: All right!
Student: ‘Knowledge came from Mt Abu.’
Baba: Has it come from Mount Abu?
Student: It is said like this,‘Mount Abu is the home.’ Baba it is not clear.
Baba: Is Mount Abu the home?
Student: ‘The teacher leaves his home and comes to teach you. Where is the home?’
Baba: Pick up one topic at a time, all right? If you read the entire Murli at once, how will it become clear? What do you want to make clear?
Student: Baba, where is the home?
Baba: The home is only that place, the place from where we have come and where we will go back. From wherever whoever comes, he goes back to that very place, then consider that to be the home indeed.
Student: Where has the knowledge of the Gita come from?
Baba: The knowledge of the Gita certainly comes from the mother Gita and God is the Giver (of the knowledge of the Gita).
Student: Baba, all the Brahmins will gather together in Mount Abu and do tapasya in a collective form; the Father will be there as well as the whole Brahmin family will be there. What kind of impurity will be there through which the destruction of the world will take place?
Baba: If there is impurity there, the destruction will take place over there. Will destruction take place where there is impurity or will destruction take place where the vibrations of purity are spread?
Student: Destruction won’t take place where vibrations of purity will be spread.
Baba: Then? You said the opposite thing, ‘what kind of impurity is there in Mt Abu through which destruction will take place?’
Student The destruction of the world.
Baba: Yes, but those vibrations are not in Mount Abu. Mt Abu also becomes tamsi (degraded) in the tamsi time; at the time, when Baba is away in the corporeal form.
Student: Baba, in 36’-37’ when the Father in the corporeal form takes the Brahmins along with him again, at that time when the Father Ram takes them along….
Baba: Whom does he take along…?
Student: He takes the Brahmins to make them perform tapasya…
Baba: How many will be Brahmins?
Student: 450 thousands (4.5 lakh).
Baba: Will he take 450 thousands all together?
Student: No, first he will take the Suryavanshis, later on the Chandravanshis, then….
Baba: How many will be from the Sun Dynasty as well?
Students: 50 thousand..
Baba: Alright. So, those who will be there, will they be number-wise or will they all be the same?
Students: They will be number-wise.
Baba: Will there be any leader among them or not?
Students: There will be a leader.
Baba: In addition, some will be subjects, the ones who walk behind. So whom will he take first?
Student: He will take the leaders first.
Baba: He will take only those who will be the leaders. All can’t go together anyway.
Student: Baba, then how will we go together when only one train will go….
Baba: Arey! When people left Sindh-Hydarabad and went to Karachi, when they gathered there…. a quarrel took place between Hindustan and Pakistan; bloodshed took place then from each place only one train had left and all those in that train were safe. However, the trains that left later weren’t safe. All the people were killed. From whichever place whichever train left, only one train left, didn’t it? Those, who were to go by the first train, left; they survived. Those who went in the next train, or those who went in the second, third trains, they were killed.
Student: Baba, you say , ‘how will everyone go together; they will go number-wise’, don’t you?
Baba: Yes, when the souls go to the Supreme Abode (Paramdham). Will they go number-wise or will they go together?
Student: Those ones don’t need trains at all.
Baba: Isn’t there the train of purusharth? There will be a physical train here as well. The ones whose thoughts will be strong, they will receive a touching immediately in their intellect: Come on, run!’
Student: Baba, the one train which will run in the end.......
Baba: One train, is there only one place?
Student: Is it about a physical train or…?
Baba: One train, is it about any one place? Trains will go to one place from various places, so will there be one train or various trains?
Student: It is about the physical train, isn’t it?
Baba: There will be the physical train as well as the subtle train. The subtle train is the train of thoughts. The more unadulterated (avyabhichari) is the train of thoughts, the sooner they will have a touching.
Student: So, the 50 thousand who are of the Sun Dynasty will go by the very first train. By which train will the ones of the other religions go?
Baba: Aren’t there people of the subject category among them (50 thousand)? Are there the first class, second class, third class subjects among them or not?
Student: Only 50, 000 will go in total, won’t they?
Baba: Yes, are there more of the subject category or more leaders among 50, 000?
Students: The ones of the subject category are more.
Baba: Then? How will they go first?

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 25 Mar 2010

Disc.CD No. 419 at DENTAL

Student: The worship of Lakshmi takes place once a year, and the worship of Saraswati takes place continuously.
Baba: The worship of Jagadamba keeps taking place. Yes. Saraswati’s worship keeps taking place, but the worship of Lakshmi takes place only once. Is the task accomplished, do the lamps light up after being worshipped once, or do the lamps light up because of the everyday worship of Saraswati?
Students: After the worship of Lakshmi.
Baba: The worship of Lakshmi which takes place once, that Lakshmi does such a work in just one chance that transformation occurs. All the desires are fulfilled through Jagadamba, but through Lakshmi only the desire of wealth is fulfilled. As far as Lakshmi is concerned, does she give her own wealth or does she give the wealth given by God the Father?
Students: She gives the wealth given by God the Father.
Baba: But, she gives pure wealth. She doesn’t give wealth mixed by her?
Student: From where has the knowledge of the Gita come? There are two Gitas. From which Gita….
Baba: Paradise is established in one second through the true Gita; and heaven transforms into hell within 2500 years through the false Gita.
Student: Baba, what is the name?
Baba: One is the path of devotion (Bhakti marg) and the other is the path of knowledge (Gyan marg). Will the Gita of the path of knowledge be virtuous or will she be a chatterer?
Student: She will be virtuous.
Baba: Is there more talking in the path of devotion or is there more practice of virtues? There are two kinds of the female deities (deviyan).
Student: Baba, what is the language of knowledge?
Baba: The language of knowledge is ‘Hints’ (ishara).
Student: Baba, it was said in today’s Murli that the faces have changed. Which faces are they?
Baba: The souls, who are leaving their bodies in the basic knowledge…; suppose Brahma Baba left his body and he entered (the Father in) the Advance Party after leaving the body. Did his face change or did it remain the same? Did the place change or remain the same?
Student: It changed.
Baba: Did the vibrations change or did it remain the same? They changed. Everything changed.
Student: Baba, we heard it once before too that probably the rosary of 108; their faces were shown to the trance messenger…
Baba: That was shown to the trance messenger.
Student: She didn’t recognize any of those faces. Perhaps she didn’t recognize even this time either.
Baba: Those who are ignorant, how will they recognize? Here the knowledgeable ones forget even after recognizing . They forget the Father himself. Then?
Student: Baba, perhaps there will be some (faces) of the Advance Party among them.
Baba: Why some faces? All the faces were of those of the Advance Party only.
Student: That is why, they must not have recognized.
Baba: Yes, How will they recognize them because of that?
Student: Baba, just as it is said in a physical form about Prakashmani Dadi that she will take birth in a Brahmin family. So, how will it take place here in the subtle form?
Baba: Why will she be in the subtle form? Will they (the ones in whom the subtle souls will enter) be in corporeal forms or in subtle forms? If the ones who enter are in subtle forms and the ones in whom they have to enter also become the ones in subtle forms, then how will the part be played? The part in the corporeal world will be played only when the ones who enter are in the subtle forms; when they belong to the inspiriting party and the ones in whom they have to enter are of the planning party, they are in the corporeal form.
Student: Baba, it was said before that the physical birth of Krishna will take place in 2018.
Baba: How come the physical birth? In which Murli was it said? You understood it so. If Maya put a covering on your intellect, what can anybody do about it? Just like it was declared in 66’ that the destruction of the entire world will take place in 76’ and the new world will be established. If somebody thinks that the world of 5 billion will be destroyed then, what is Baba’s fault in it?
Student: Our intellect used to understand it in that way.
Baba: Yes, so is your intellect vicious or is it free from vices?
Student: It is vicious.
Baba: It catches the same kind of vibration.
Student: Baba says everything in the unlimited sense. We children…
Baba: No, then Baba also says that the meaning of that topic will be revealed when the time comes. If [Baba] clarifies everything now, then what will he tell you in the future? The teaching that has to be given in the future… will the studies of M.A. and B.A. be taught in M.A. and B.A., it will be taught later or will they be taught in the primary school?
Student: It will be taught later.
Student: Baba, on the path of devotion people celebrate Navratri. What is its memorial in the Confluence Age?

Baba: Why, aren’t there 9 female deities here? Aren’t there 9 Patranis, eight Patranis. Are these Patranis (wife of a king) senior and junior or are they the same? Are they connected with every religion or are they from only one religion.
Student: They are connected with every religion.
Baba: They are connected with every religion, so they are one after the other, aren’t they?
Student: Baba, 9 mini-Madhubans are there…
Baba: Why 9? There are around 14-15 of them. More are going to open very soon.
Student: First of all, there were 9, weren’t there?
Baba: Before? Were all the 9 opened together?
Student: Are they connected with 9 different religions or not?
Baba: Alright, it is about the purity (sattvikta) of the sustenance. There is a difference between the sustenance of the Sun Dynasty, the Moon Dynasty, the Islam Dynasty, the Christian Dynasty, the Buddhist Dynasty, isn’t there?
Student: Did 14 gems emerge in the churning of the ocean?
Baba: Yes.
Student: How are they in a living form?
Baba: How are the 14 gems in a living form? Why? Isn’t the pot of knowledge in a living form? A horse named ‘Uccheshrava’ emerged [from churning]; isn’t he in a living form?
Student: No, no, I mean which are they?
Baba: That’s what is being explained. The deadly poison (haalahal) emerged. Didn’t the deadly poison emerge in a living form? The pot of knowledge emerged. Didn’t the pot of knowledge come out in a living form? Call it an urn or call it a pot, call it a vessel.
Student: Regarding the pot of poison…
Baba: Someone has a head which is filled with nothing but poison, poisonous vibrations will come out, his vision will be poisonous, his speech will be poisonous…. So, what kind of pot is he? He is a pot of poison.
Student: Baba, Arjuna Dev, the fifth guru of Sikh Religion faced a lot of troubles. On what basis did he receive the troubles? Which soul is it?
Baba: Which religious Father had to face the most troubles within a short time? The religious Father of which number is he?
Students are saying something.
Baba: Is it? Then? Did it happen to any religious Father that his hands, legs, stomach were nailed?
Student: Christ.
Student: Baba, when the religious fathers enter, is their incorporeal stage seen as soon as they enter?

Baba: They descended from above in the incorporeal stage indeed, didn’t they? When they came from above, did they come in the incorporeal stage or in the subtle stage or in the corporeal stage?
Student: They came in the incorporeal stage.
Baba: They came in the incorporeal stage. So, they will appear the same as they were when they came, won’t they?
Student: When ShivBaba enters…
Baba: Isn’t there any difference between the entrance of ShivBaba and the entrance of the religious fathers? The religious fathers reveal themselves, so their faces are seen clearly. And ShivBaba? Does he play the incognito role or the revealed role?
Student: He plays the incognito role.
Baba: He will be revealed in the end, when the purusharth of the one in whom he enters is completed.
Student: Baba, the religious fathers play their roles only through the revealed ones whom they enter and the Supreme Soul plays the role through many souls from time to time.
Baba: It is your mistake. If he enters many, did he become omnipresent or present in one?
Student: He becomes omnipresent.
Baba: Sometimes you say ‘He is present in one’, sometimes you say ‘He is omnipresent’.
Student: No Baba, I mean to say, He does enter someone to give light (sakash)?
Baba: Does anybody come to know it? Can anybody say in whom did He came? Do you get any proof?
Student: Even if the entrance may not be recognized, but the power is felt.
Baba: Do you get any proof?
Student: Yes.
Baba: Yes? If a proof is found, all will say that He entered them.
Student: No! ‘Proof’ means that something that wasn’t in the intellect before, emerged.
Baba: In this way, new things emerge in the intellect of many.
Student : Baba, as such He (the Supreme Soul) does enter five souls temporarily, five faces of Brahma are praised….........
Baba: No, Shiva in the form of the Father comes only in one, in the form of the teacher He comes only in one and He comes only into one in the form of the Satguru. If He starts entering many, did He become omnipresent or present in one?
Student: He comes only in one in the permanent way.
Baba: Yes. No one can say that ShivBaba is in him.
Student: But the religious fathers who come from above don’t do so?
Baba: Their degradation is caused after entering in one alone, then what is the need of entering many and being revealed?
Student: The 8 deities (Ashta dev) control their groups through their minds and intellects, do they?
Baba: They control their group?
Student: The 8 deities meaning the 9 gems which are there…..........
Baba: The gems are separate; the deities are separate. The gems are the heads of different religions. And the deities? They belong only to the Sun Dynasty. The ones who take 84 births are called ‘deities’. Will the ones who didn’t take 84 births at all called deities? The quality and value of the gems are different. The value of diamond is above all. All the 8 deities are diamonds. They are the hero-actors. Even if they fall down in their last births in any religion, they will play the role of hero there too.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 26 Mar 2010

Disc.CD No. 419 at DENTAL

Student: Baba, the children who are good makers of special effort for the soul will go on having experience of all kinds like, ‘What are we going to become? When will the destruction take place?’They will go on having all the experience. Baba, does it depend on their purusharth?
Baba: It is correct. The ones who made special effort for only the soul (purush arth), who haven’t done for their bodies, who have not done out of selfishness (svarth); the ones who haven’t done efforts for their chariots (sva rath), they will have this experience. However the ones who did show that theirs is a purusharthi life, but they made efforts for the sustenance of their body, for the sustenance of their bodily relatives, the ones who dedicated their time for the body, how will they have this experience?
Student: Isn’t whatever done for the body and for the relatives considered as purusharth?
Baba: It wasn’t for the soul? It was for the body; it was for the bodily relatives.
Student: Will they experience the same according to what they did?
Baba: If someone has been having the experience of the body for 63 births and he experienced the same in the Confluence Age too, then what was special about it? In those 63 births, ‘Sada Shiva’ (always beneficial), the one who creates paradise and makes us practice the stage of the self, didn’t come. But now He has come and He is teaching us, how to experience paradise through the stage of the self. He comes and gives the inheritance of paradise here, in this very world, in the world of hell. Isn’t it a wonderful thing? We stay in the world of hell and what do we experience? We experience paradise.
Student: Baba, a minimum of how many hours of purusharth is needed daily to achieve the incorporeal stage?
Baba: If we put a time limit, will it make an hour? Will it become an hour just by determining a time limit? Or will you have to do something more? The more you add gur (sweetness of remembrance), the sweeter it will become.
Student: Yes, but what is the minimum, how many hours is needed?
Baba: Nothing is mine, everything is yours, then what will remain? The point. What is the main mantra (spell) to become incorporeal?
Students: Everything is yours.
Baba: Everything is yours. Not just to say. We should ourselves see it in practical and the others should also see it and experience: he didn’t care for himself at all. Then the one like this will certainly become incorporeal.
Student: Some follow the path of knowledge for a year or 2 or for 4 years and later on they leave it. Will they come again? What will happen to them?
Baba: They follow the knowledge, they study the teaching of purity which is being taught, they also do the purusharth, then they become the one having a doubtful intellect and leave. So, they go into the subject category.
Student: Will they come again later?
Baba: Where will they go? The shop (hatti) of truth is only one. All have to go to the land of the truth (sacch khand), number wise. They will receive the truth only from the One. From which other one will they receive it? The destination is only one. Is the Abode of the Truth (satdham) only one or many? The Abode of truth is only one.
Student: Baba, the title of the Gayatri Mantra has the names of mothers and kanyas like Gayatri, Ganga, Yamuna, Saraswati…....... But it is addressed to the Tridev (three deities).
Baba: If there are 3 [male] deities, aren’t there 3 [female] deities with them? Will 3 male deities be able to do anything alone without the female deities? If the 3 male deities don’t take 3 female deities along with them, will paradise be established?
Student But in the hymn ‘Om bhurbhuva swaha, tasyavitur varenyam bhargodevasya dhimahi diyohiyonah pracodaya…’ there are no names of the female deities, aren’t there?
Baba: Who completed the work? Did the male deities complete the work or did the female deities complete it?
Student: But the name of male deities is there in the shloka.
Baba: Although it is there in the shloka, it is just a saying; but when the question of doing the work arose…, will purity do the work or will the deities in male form do it? All males are said to be Duryodhan and Dushasan. They won’t be able to become deities at all. Therefore the names of 3 female deities is put in front. The Gayatri, the three who are praised.
Student: Baba, the devotees go to the Babadham in the limited world. What is the connection of ‘kaanvar’ with the Babadham?
Baba: From Babadham…......................
Students: Kaanvar…........they bring the water of Ganges in the pots and pour it over Shivling at Shivratri.
Baba: It is the story of Shravan. It is connected with that story. The kanvar that he took, in that he gave a seat to the mother in front and the Father at the back. At one place he filled their intellects with the water of knowledge and offered it in another place. They fill the pots in the rivers and offer it (water) in the temples.

Time: 40.15
Student: Baba, the water of knowledge is taken from the Father, then why is it here that the water was taken from the river and offered to the Father?

Baba: The Father comes in the form of the Father and gives the water of knowledge. What is the name of the rosary made from that first of all? Arey! What is the name of the mala of the beads, of the gathering of those beads to whom the Father comes and narrates knowledge?
Students: Rudra mala (the rosary of Rudra).
Baba: Rudra mala. Is that Rudra mala able to do anything? Does anything (khartail ) come out? Nothing (khartail) comes out. It will only come out when kanyas (virgins) and mothers are put in front. No one gives attention to this point in the basic knowledge or in the advance knowledge either. In the basic knowledge brothers took the position of gurus as well as in the advance knowledge the brothers take the position of gurus. They leave the kanyas and mothers behind. The work won’t be accomplished. When is the work accomplished? (The work is completed), when kanyas and mothers i.e. the rivers (of knowledge), come out. It is then that the work is accomplished. Therefore, it was said that the knowledge narrated through the mouth of the kanyas and mothers sounds good. The kanyas and mothers themselves should be given (a chance). Therefore the rivers are praised for filling the kanvar. Fill it with water from the rivers, then offer it over the deity and praise him.
Student: Baba, the Shiva linga which is made in the temples, a pot hangs over it and water falls from the pot drop-by-drop. What does it mean?
Baba: Of what is the linga a symbol? It is a symbol of the body in which He (the Supreme Soul) has entered. And the point is the symbol of the one who has entered. The point entered the linga. Now in whom will the heat increase? Will the heat increase in the corporeal one or in the incorporeal one?
Students: In the corporeal one.
Baba: Does the one in whom heat increase need cold drops of water of knowledge or not? In addition, through whom should that water of God’s praise drop on him? It was shown in the form of a pot. They show an urn. Who is the urn? The urn filled with water was offered.
Student: The kanyas and mothers.
Baba: Yes, they offer them to Shiva. They don’t offer just 1 or 2 (of them); they offer a lot of them. Everyday they offer a small pot (loti). You may call it a pot (loti), you may call it a jar (gagri), you may call it an urn (kalash)... it is the same thing.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 27 Mar 2010

Discussion CD no.1 (Nepal party) Dated: 23-8-2003
Part - 1

Baba - the Gurkhas are truthful. They want truth but they have been deprived of truth until now...now, the advance knowledge has spread in all the states all over India. Only Nepal is left...Nepal and Kashmir are left. That’s all.
Student – it (the spread of knowledge) has begun in Nepal. The western part of Kathmandu is still left (to come in the Advance Party)...

Baba - ... [they] go into bahubal (use of physical power). That's why, it seems the struggle is tough...
Student -....10-12 people came on motorcycles and encircled us...
Baba - you might have done some sins in the previous births. When you had become king, you too might have been a big tyrant...
Student - we had to go to [the temple of] Mahakali, we would go anyhow…even by foot...
Baba - ...a sandeshi (trance messenger) was sent. The sandeshi came and said that she saw, she was shown by Baba, who all are the ones in [the rosary of] 108? She couldn't see anyone from among the Brahma Kumar-Kumaris in it. So the sandeshi was surprised and was hesitated to speak before Dadi that she couldn't see a single one [among the BKs] in the [rosary of]108....
Baba – The topic of dharna (inculcation) is raised. As regards dharna, the big holy men, mahatmas (great souls) of today have more dharna... the deities have dharna higher than them. How will the deities come here in this (Kaliyugi) Iron Age world? It is OK that the ones who were the most virtues ones experienced downfall the most and they themselves have come in Ram's party and become army of monkeys...
Baba - The deprived souls, the souls who are deprived of Baba's Murli, only they should be made to listen [the Murli]...
Students - so far, there are around 80 souls...
Baba - Are there 80 souls in advance in Nepal [so far]? Accha? But do those 80 gather somewhere in one place, once a month?
Student - Yes.
Baba – Accha. If they gather, it's a good thing…the power of the sangathan (gathering) is seen after being gathered. No one gathers courage so fast…
Student - Baba, a huge seva (service) is going to take place in Nepal. Many of the [people of] newspapers have said that they will publish it in their newspaper...
Baba - According to the physical level there are 3 armies are considered to be powerful in India. One is the Rajput Battalion. The 2nd one is the Gurkha Battalion and the third one is the Sikh battalion. That is about physical level, Likewise, here, in the spiritual level as well, there are 3 battalions. Among them, the Gurkha battalion is yet to come up. The Sikh are also there to come up, the Sikhs have not come yet… what? Is there any Sikh who has emerged until now in Advance? There is only one Gitapatshala of beginning of [the place] called Gursosudhar; the sardarji (a Sikh person) comes [from there]... so he is the only one. Except him, there is no Sikh who have emerged....there is neither [any] Gurkha nor any Sikh... and all the ones who have emerged in the Advance [party] consider them of the Rajput battalion.
Student said something
Baba - ... No one as such seems special in Punjab. Those of the original blood of a Punjabi are there indeed but those who are the original ones from the Sikh religion are not still coming in knowledge (Gyan) now. Moreover it seems that they will not understand (Gyan) early either because the Sikh religion comes only in mid-end of the Iron Age. So here, in this shooting period also it will come only in the end. When it [the knowledge] came in the newspapers of Delhi, the Sikhs protested against. They came upto the Vijay Vihar ashram and said, ' how did you say that we have converted from the dull-headed Rajputs into Sikhs?' ....Arey! in the beginning there was only one Sanatan Dharam (Ancient Deity Religion) and no other religion was there. It is from the Sanatan dharm that other religions have emerged. So, when Guru Nanak came 500 years ago, the Sikh religion didn’t exist before then? So, after all, the sampling will be made only from them who were present before. So they (who were protesting) were explained. They said that they would go to the court and decide [about the matter] that these ones insult us in the newspapers. Then, they were shown the literature of the advance [knowledge, saying] 'look, our Baba has admired the Sikh religion so much [saying] if there is any other religion of pravritti marg (path of household)and the supporter of the Sanatan dharm then it is the Sikh religion alone.' They were shown the literature and said, 'look, in our literature it is written that even the Hindus haven't sacrificed to extent that the Sikhs have sacrificed for Bharat (India).' then they became cool (their anger subsided) and they went away. Just as blind faith is being practised very much in Gurudwaras (the shrine of the Sikhs); even in the Brahmin family, the souls from the Sikhs religion are following [the knowledge] with a blind faith. If they give the time to understand, it will sit in their intellect. [But] they receive the directions of the Didis-Dadis: you should not listen at all. [They are taught by the Didid-Dadis], you should not listen, put the fingers into your ears and remember God, you have to remember the Supreme Soul. You should not listen to anyone. Then, how will it work?
Student said something.
Baba – If they, people of Kampil (a village in Uttar Pradesh) don’t come, how will they understand? When people from around the world are coming, the doors aren’t closed for you (people of Kampil). You (people of Kampil) come and understand.
Student - there is some mystery which God is revealing after coming...
Baba - If there is some mystery, the door is not closed for you (people of Kampil). Come and understand. [But] they don't gather courage. They fear 'if we go, we too will become like them (PBKs).' They think that they (PBKs) have some magical powers. Whoever comes becomes theirs (PBKs).
Student - They say that the bones are grinded and given to eat [in the food served at ashram].
Baba - No. It is said by the Brahma Kumaris that the bones are ground and given in the food. The people of Kampil do not say this.

Student - They (the people of Kampil) say that this person (Baba) has a big intellect, he moulds others' intellect.
Baba – Yes. [They think] he (Baba) is educated and moulds other's intellect.... the people of Kampil had come to the ashram 2-3 times with the sages and sanyasis who come from outside in Kampil, saying, talk to our sanyasi maharaj.. They also had a discussion for a while but they become angry after listening to what is said here [in the knowledge]...
Baba - the Brahma Kumari ashram was established since the year 1956 in Farrukhabad. Since the year 1956 they were continuously trying to establish an ashram in Kayamganj (a village near Kampil), but now there is no ashram in Kayamganj; it never remained permanent....

Baba - there is a very old (BK) ashram in Farrukhabad. Among them around 50-60% people are such who used to go and then they [stoped going and] sat at their home. There are lots of souls of the Brahma Kumaris who have broken away [in the knowledge]. The new ones are coming...
Baba - ... the newspaper named ‘Amar Ujala’ did a lot of disservice..... a big conference of the [people of] Brahma Kumari ashram was held at Kanpur (a city in Uttar Pradesh). I (Baba) had gone in that conference after meeting Ramsingh. I had met him in the income tax office. He strongly opposed. During those times, advance knowledge was new; it was the knowledge of the beginning. But he did not believe on any point. He has the feeling opposition of that time within him till now.
Student – Baba, was that in the year1977?
Baba – Yes, the year 1977.
Student - You had narrated the advance [knowledge]to him?
Baba - Yes. I had narrated. He opposed a lot....[he is the] recovery officer; he found a chance that there is income tax of amount 2 crore (20 million) charged in the name of Baba. [So] he said, bring and pay Rs. 2 crore. So, he is making a great effort. Sometimes he threatens to take away the [possession over the] house in Delhi... the 10-15 thousand money which was in Baba's name in the [bank] accounts was withdrawn [but] there is such a difference between 2 crore and 10-15 thousand; how will the amount be covered up?
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 29 Mar 2010

Discussion CD no.1 (Nepal party) Dated: 23-8-2003
Part - 2

Student – Baba, when I was doing the course…

Baba - ... Advance Course?
Student - Yes, the Advance Course. During that time, It was said in that, there was Radha, Gita Mata, and there was one more woman.
Baba – These points are mentioned in Murli, aren’t they? Whatever points are mentioned in Murli, only that point will be said. The rest should be said by the Didis and Dadis. This point is mentioned in Murli, there were some good matas (mothers) who used to give direction even to Mama and Baba, who used make them perform the drill. This proves that in the beginning of the Yagya, there was a bhagidar (partner)..."Alaf ko Allah mila, Be ko baadśaahii. Aayi taar Allah ki, hua rail ka rahi." (Alaf found (God) Allah and Be obtained the emperorship. The telegram from Allah arrived and he became the traveller by train.)
These type of things prove that there was a partner. That personality (bhagidar) who was the partner of Brahma Baba was the chief, who used to look after Baba's shop; and there were some two other matas. So, who were those two matas; their names cannot be said. If Baba tells their names in Murli, will everything not become clear? Then, there will be no secret in the advance [knowledge]. It can only be possible when the Didi-Dadis meet amongst themselves and give and take [knowledge] and get ready to understand, they can say who were the main matas in the beginning of the Yagya, who used to control Mama as well as Dada Lekhraj. Then the point will become clear; but they are not prepared to sit face to face at all. They just think that they will be insulted in front of them (those of Advance knowledge). There is nothing insulting in it. If there is the need to take something, if there is the need to sacrifice from honour and prestige for the benefit of the world, we should do it.

Student – The name of one [of the two mothers] was Gita Mata and the....
Baba - No.. no.. no..
Student – It is said so in the course....
Baba - No.. no..no... There is no mention of the names of both Matas. Only the name of ‘Sevakram’ [can be said]; [regarding] that too, a book like the pradarshini ank (An exhibition edition) called 'Bachchon ke Baba' (children's Baba), published by [those of the] BK ashram. The name of the partner [of Brahma Baba] was mentioned as Sevakram in it. Through that the topic became clear, [but] that was also known to us from the Didi, Dadis and Dadas. The name of Sevakram hasn't appeared in the Murlis at all. Only the word bhagidar has appeared. That’s all. So how can we say the wrong thing regarding what were the names of those matas?
Student – In the Advance Course, we were told that one of the mata’s name was Gita Mata and the other’s....
Baba – No. The name ‘Gita Mata’ has been given just for the sake of recognition. The name ‘Radha bachchii’ has been given just for the recognition, which means Radha and Krishna who will be revealed in Confluence Age, among them Radha is the daughter who was in the beginning of Yagya. That name is of now. Her name was not Radha at that time. To make the point of that time clear, the name Radha bachchii was given. It’s not that her name was Radha at that time (in the beginning of Yagya). How will one [soul]have the same names in two births continuously? It is something to think.
Student – and about Gita mata who is mentioned?
Baba – Yes, the one who has been called Gita Mata, she has to be more powerful. When there is the part of the Gitapati Bhagvaan (the husband God of the Gita) and there is someone as Gita Mata with him; she is more powerful, isn’t she? She is the mother (jananii) of the whole world. She would have controlled the Yagya in the beginning. Even before Brahma Baba, those matas were controlling the Yagya. Those matas have controlled Mama as well as Dada Lekhraj Brahma.
Student – Both the mothers?
Baba- Yes, both the mothers and Bhagidar was already his (Brahma Baba) brother-in-law. He was elder than Brahma Baba, he was more respectable but was weak money wise. He was cleverer than Brahma Baba. He too had a jewelery shop. He had a small shop while Brahma Baba had a big shop; but he (Brahma Baba) developed vairaag (detachment), so he left all the shops and so on and handed it over to the Bhagidar. Bhagidar had been working in his (Brahma Baba’s) shop for 10 years. Brahma Baba was a person with a merciful heart; he said to him ‘your shop does not run well. You can come to our place and continue the work in the shop. Let me become a little bit free.’
Student – ... after that then Brahma left....
Baba – Yes, when Brahma left and ...no... when all topics of the visions became clear to him by Bhagidar, Brahma Baba came to Sindh Hyderabad and started having a satsang (A spiritual gathering).
Student – Did Prajapita remain there itself?
Baba – It will take sometime to close the shop (wind up the business). How will he leave at once and go? How will he leave the shop worth hundred thousands (lakhs) at once? After closing the shop, he too came [to Sindh Hyderabad] later on.
Student – Baba, had he handed over everything?
Baba – Yes. He too came; the satsang continued to be held with both of them together in Sindh Hyderabad. Later, some such children were added [to the gathering] who created a friction between them.
Student – when he moved to Karachi from Sindh Hyderabad, at that time....
Baba – The fight had taken place at that very time. At that time, Brahma Baba had left to Karachi alone. He had a bungalow; he went stayed there. Later, the sisters and mothers started to go there one by one, two together, in a group of four [etc]. In the year 1947, when there was a fight between Hindustan [India] and Pakistan, there was a fight between both the partners. Court cases were held. All the matas and kanyaas (mothers and virgins) came under bondage because of those court cases. The people of Sindh Hyderabad put them in bondage. Those kanyaa-matas were rescued from bondage only when the partition between Hindustan and Pakistan took place.
Student –Brahma Baba came to Karachi from Sindh Hyderabad....
Baba – [He came] first of all.
Student – so at that time did Sevakram, Gita Mata and Radhe bachchii stayed there in Sindh Hyderabad itself? Did the three souls come along [with Brahma Baba] or stayed there [at Sindh Hyderabad]?
Baba – No. There was a fight in the beginning. Two groups were formed. Brahma Baba went alone to his bungalow. Later, they went gradually.
Student – Did the fight occur in [Sindh] Hyderabad?
Baba – Yes, the court cases where held in [Sindh] Hyderabad. Mama came later, she did not come in the beginning. Om Radhe Mama didn’t come in the beginning. That’s why there is praise in the scriptures: the river Saraswati emerges in the middle and vanishes in the middle.
Student – the souls belonging to the group of Prajapita would have stayed there or would they have left as well?
Baba – They were in opposition of Brahma Baba in Sindh Hyderabad.
Student – so Baba, where did those three souls i.e Sevakram, Gita Mata and Radha bachchii leave their physical body?
Baba – that cannot be said now. Still there are many such secrets which are yet to be revealed. A proof is required for everything.
Student – The names of Gita mata and so on which is being said now [in the advance], are they saying it according to their own opinion (manmat?
Baba – Gita mata means the one through whom the whole Gyan of the Gita became clear to the Brahma Kumaria and Brahma Baba as well. After all, how did Brahma [Baba] come to know that he is Brahma? He came to know through that mata. That’s why she became Gita mata.
Student- It is a qualitative name.
Baba- Yes. Whatever the names are there in the scriptures are all qualitative names. The names have been given according to the work performed by them. So the foundation is being laid now in the Confluence Age (Sangamyug). The tasks [performed by the deities] as well as the qualities of the deities will be declared. According to their qualities [and] their work, everyone’s part will be revealed. When the name of the first birth is revealed then the next 83 births will also be revealed. If the part of the soul of Ram can be revealed, can’t your part be revealed?
Student – For example, till now the part of 2 souls have become fixed, haven’t they?
Baba – why two? Baba is saying, three seats are fixed. The Trimurti has been completely revealed. If the Trimurti hasn’t revealed in anyone’s intellect, what advance knowledge did he take? Taking the Advance knowledge itself was a waste for him.
Student – Baba, combined means there are 2-3 souls in one body, isn’t it?
Baba – The meaning of combined is BapDada are combined. Bap means the Supreme Soul. The body in which the Supreme Soul works in a permanent way and the body in which the Supreme Soul works in a temporary way, the body through which both the Chariot are being revealed in the Advance Party is BapDada [in a combined form].
Student – I had read in an Avyakt Vani recently, it was written in it, “Now, Brahma, Bap and Dada are combined”. I couldn’t understand this.
Baba – Why couldn’t you understand? Dada has been said for Dada Lekhraj. Dada is said for the big brother. When the process of the world starts, who will be the first two children to be born? Radha- Krishna [i.e] Mama-Baba themselves will be born. So, the elder child who is born first, isn’t he Dada? He became the Dada of the whole world, did he not? And now in the Confluence Age that soul will also play the part of bullying (Dadagiri), of Dharamraaj (the Chief Justise). Who was the Dada (elder brother) of the five Pandavas?
Student - Yudhishthir.
Baba – He was Dada of everyone, wasn’t he? So, when he was everyone’s Dada, he will be Dada (elder brother) in virtues, won’t he? Dharamraaj Yudhishthir has been given the title of Dharamraaj, hasn’t he? Then definitely he might have also played the part of Dharamraaj. So the one who has loved the most will also give beatings the most, now.
Student – The part of Yudhishthir is that of Prajapita at present, isn’t it? Or is it of Brahma Baba?
Baba – No. No. The soul of Brahma himself plays the part of Yudhishthir. The one who was remained (stable) in war; he left the body, but the soul is still stable in the religious war (dharamyuddh). It’s not that he left and went away. Still, he is on the side of truth.
Student – Brahma, Bap and Dada have also been said to be combined.
Baba – Dada itself means Brahma Baba. BapDada. Dada means the elder brother. Bap means Supreme Soul plus Prajapita.
Student – [what about the word]Brahma? There is a word Brahma also ahead.
Baba – Brahma means Dada...
Student – it is before and ahead, isn’t it? How did these three [words] come [in this line]? [It was said] Brahma, then [the name] Bap in the middle and then it was said Dada.
Baba – No. The point that you are saying, in context of what are you saying it? First of all repeat the enter sentence.
Student – I had read it in one book...
Baba – It has said, “three seats have been fixed. Brahma, Bap and Jagadamba.” [Or] Jagadamba, Bap and Brahma. Brahma means Brahma so Vishnu; those two are one. As for the rest, Bap means the one in whom the Supreme Soul Father is revealed in world.....and Jagadamba.....it is the form of Brahma. It is not worshipped in the world with moustache and beard; temples for him are not built. But the female body in which the same soul is revealed after he leaving the body is worshipped in the world as Jagadamba. That one is the real Brahma. In the beginning too, it was the same Brahma. What? Dada Lekhraj Brahma was not present at that time. Brahma with beard was not there. At that time, in the beginning of the Yagya when the Supreme Soul Shiva entered for the first time, [regarding that time] it was said [in the Murli], when I come I don’t come alone. I come with the three personalities. Those three personalities were there in the beginning of the Yagya, in the year [19]36, when Brahma Baba asked for the clarification of his visions from the Partner.
Student – Baba, what he means to say is that Brahma, Bap.... Brahma comes first, then Bap and then Dada [in the sentence]...
Baba – Brahma, Baap and Jagadamba.
Student – there is a book of Avyakt Vani...
Baba – Bring it. Yes, bring it.
Student- In the Avyakt Vani [it is mentioned] Brahma, Bap and then Dada. It means, first Brahma comes in BK, then Bap and then Dada [comes].
Baba- No. The Supreme Soul who has been called Bap, until he enters the body, he won’t be revealed in the world at all.
Student said something.
Baba – He doesn’t come in practical and play the part of being the one with merciful heart (Raham dil). The Supreme Soul doesn’t play the part. The one for whom it has been said in Murli, “Nothing is everlasting in this world; one ShivBaba is everlasting”, plays that part. What? One ShivBaba is everlasting in this world. Not the Father Shiv (Shiv Bap), its ShivBaba, meaning the one in whom He enters, makes him equal to Himself and goes away. Who? The permanent Chariot in whom the Father Shiv enter in this world and makes him so competent that he becomes capable of giving birth to the children like Radha-Krishna, meaning he can become the Father of the world. So, that soul stays continuously, stays permanent in this world. He plays the part of being the one with the merciful heart since the Copper Age (dwaparyug) till the end of Iron Age (Kaliyug). The Supreme Soul Shiva doesn’t play the part of being the one with a merciful heart since the Copper Age.
Student –He (Prajapita) comes in [the cycle of] birth [and death].
Baba- Yes, he comes in the cycle of birth and death. Won’t there be a hero actor among those who come in the cycle of birth and death?
Student said something.
Baba – Tell me, will there be a hero actor or not? There will be, won’t there? So, will the hero actor be cruel, will he be a villain? He won’t be a villain.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 30 Mar 2010

Discussion CD no.1 (Nepal party) Dated: 23-8-2003
Part - 2

Student – ... I remembered, baba made us…
Baba – ... enabled you to have visions. The one who is above i.e. the Supreme Soul himself enables to have the visions.
Student – ... those who are making jewellery here will become more expert over there in the Golden Age. They will make better jewellery. But it is said that there is only the body there and there are no clothes and so on.
Baba – Isn’t the body a cloth? If we get that very [cloth], a beautiful one then what is the need of other clothes? The clothes are worn because of the cold and the heat. That’s why, there is need of the clothes. Here, we have body-consciousness, we develop lust, anger, greed, attachment, we develop the vice lust. That’s why, the clothes are worn to hide it. There is a need of the houses and clothes because now-a-days it has become the world of thieves and dacoits. So the houses are built, [thinking] let’s put walls…
Student – Baba you have about science that the skills bringing sorrow will end the skills that bring happiness will stay. Atomic energy will be used to work.
Baba – atomic energy....isn’t your soul an atom? Is there any atom more subtler than it? What is the difference between the soul and an atom? That atom is inert and your soul is the real atom. Which one has more power? Which atom has more power? This atom (the soul) is the real one. Their atom is duplicate. They make the atom bomb through that [atom]. They destroy the world through it. Your atom in the form of the soul will not destroy the world; it will create the new world.
Student - Baba you have said that 8-9 years old good, intelligent children will fly the aircraft....
Baba – There will not be mechanical aircrafts made in the factories over there. There will be such beautiful, large birds which will understand our sign through the eyes. [They will understand the sign] fly in this (right) direction, fly in that (left) direction, go up, come down, stop. If you find such big birds.... Now-a-days, do the horses come under control or not? Then, can’t birds come in control? Even monkeys trained. They also fire guns. Then, can’t birds come under control in such a way?
Student – Yes.
Baba –Then?
Student – Baba, how can we remember continuously?
Baba – [Remembrance] can be constant when you forget the point and think that the Supreme Soul point of light is has entered and is sitting in someone corporeal one in this world. What? The point is within your soul itself. It itself is a point form. If you become stable in that form of point of light, in the soul conscious form, the point will not leave you at all. What? If you consider yourself a soul, then that point is with you, [i.e.] the Supreme Soul. But it has to be recognized, where is that Supreme Soul working, (playing his part) in this world. In which body, the permanent Chariot, is He working? If we make this firm that the Supreme Soul Father has come in this world.... when the material of destruction, the atom bombs have been prepared, someone who establishes the new world has also come. What? We human beings prepare the materials of destruction; He doesn’t prepare it. He comes and builds the house of the world. What? 65 years ago consider 65-70 years there was no name and trace of atomic energy. What? Or was it there? There was not even the name and trace of it. Since the discovery, the recognition of atomic energy began in this world, the Supreme Soul who discovers the soul, came in this world since that very time. The work of both of them begins together.
Student – the establishment takes place here and the destruction takes place there...
Baba – Yes, on one side the establishment takes place, whereas on the other side the work of destruction starts. The more there is establishment the more there will be destruction. If the establishment slows down, the destruction will also become slow. The ones who establish [the new world] are not fully prepared so, the ones who do the destruction are also silent [thinking], when should we do the destruction, should we do it or not?
Student – Baba, how to bring in use the topic; ‘give blessings and take blessings’
Baba – It means having the feeling of benevolence towards everyone; have the soul-conscious stage. Don’t come in body-consciousness. The way of falling down in this world is body consciousness and the way to rise up is soul-consciousness. If we remain soul conscious, all these are our brothers. They all are our brother and sisters. Like, if there is a big brother, he has a feeling of kindness for his younger brother. So we should have the same of feeling. Now, we shouldn’t do anything else. We should just keep this in mind that we have to take blessings from other and give blessings to the others.
Student – my wife says [to me], “I will see whether you have changed or not, then I will believe that God has come.”
Baba – Then, change [yourself]. Why do you become cruel? Why do you think this is my wife, I will use her according to the way I want? Change [yourself] first. Become [the one with the stage of] souls are brothers [amongst themselves]. That’s it. She won’t say anything then. But you become angry. Do you?
Student – Yes.
Baba – You become angry, don’t you?
Student – She has very much anger in her heart for me.
Baba - Oh! she is ignorant. [But] you have taken the knowledge of God.
Student- (about another brother) he becomes very scared in the night. If somebody touches him while he is asleep then he attacks that person, he shouts loudly....
The brother – ... The sins were destroyed and that disease was cured but as regards the shouting when I sleep, I see…
Baba – There is body-consciousness while sleeping. Practise to consider the soul as a star and sleep; what? And even when you wake up in the morning, you should remember only the star for 10-15 minutes and remember nothing else. If you make this practice firm then the problem which he is saying [about you] will end.
Student – my body is a little bit… it has been fed too much food....
Baba – Now-a-days, the doctors are giving lots of ideas; put your weight down. Start eating boiled food.
Student – What should I eat?
Baba – What is meant by ‘what’? Boil and start eating things i.e. vegetables like laukii (bottle gourd, an Indian vegetable), papaya. I’ve also brought boiled food [to eat]...
Student (reading an Avyakt Vani point) – Elevated souls are always together. Bap-Dada is always ready in the children’s service. When they are already combined, no one can separate the combined ones. Like, Brahma, Bap and Dada are combined. They cannot be separated....
Baba – Yes, [before] Bap and Dada, the word Brahma has been used for Jagadamba here?...
Student – Like Brahma, Bap and Dada are combined. That’s why I didn’t understand....
Baba - This is the point to be understood. The word Brahma has been used for Jagadamba here. In one Murli, it has also been said, a clear clarification has been given, “in fact, your Brahma is this one i.e. Dada Lekhraj”.
Student – [In the point;] like Brahma, Bap and Dada... It is separate. Brahma is separate and Bap and Dada are one.
Baba - Bap-Dada are combined. Mother and Father are separate. Has it ever been said in the Murli that both, Brahma and Bap are combined? Have Brahma and Bap ever been said to be combined? No, so Brahma [and] Bap are separate. Both, Prajapita and Brahma are separate; and Bap and Dada are combined. Like now-a-days, the name ‘...& sons company’ prevails. They combine the names of the Father and son. So, it is a combined company of Bap-Dada. It cannot be known at all, who is working in the shop; whether Bap is working or Dada is working.
Student – Baba, please tell once more about how to remember constantly...
Baba – the meaning of constant remembrance is, in the Brahmakumari ashram, we used to remember the point; the point has to be remembered forcefully. The pulling of the connection of the intellect takes place nicely; still we forget it again and again. And here, it is said that Supreme Soul point of light is working in some body. For that you are given the 7 days course of advance [knowledge], to understand the topic. So, has that thing sat in your intellect or not?
Student – It has sat.
Baba – It has sat [in your intellect]. So, if it has sat in your intellect, this is the permanent Chariot in whom the Supreme Soul is working now, will it become easy or difficult?
Student – It will become easy.
Baba – That’s it, if there is any practical thing, it is easy to remember it; but what about the point? It is not practical. Practical means, ‘with the body’. If there is a child, your child was born, he is sitting with you in your lap, then you will remember him. There is the mother, there is the Father; they are remembered because they are in practical.
Student – Baba all relationship (sarv sambandh)...
Baba – All relationships means the soul of Prajapita in whom the Supreme Soul enters, has been in various relationships with you in various births? If you want, you can form all those relationships [with him] now. Didn’t you understand? Can’t you form [the relationship]? [Prajapita] will become something [of yours] in some birth. Will he be your Father-in-law in some birth or child in some birth, your mother in some birth or your wife in some birth? You don’t know it now? Can he become [this] or not?
Student – Yes.
Baba – Then, aren’t they all relationships? Your fortune has been given in your hand, in your fist. If you want you can make it or you may not. Then will it become easy or will it become difficult now?
Student – It will become easy.
Student – Baba, tell me one more thing, I work in air force…

Baba – Tell [me] any such place, any city where the knowledge hasn’t spread at all? Tell, where do you want to transfer? And where are you afraid of being transferred?
Student – Baba, I think it is good in Chandigarh...
Baba – In Chandigarh it (mini madhuban) is there, isn’t it? Then? In Chandigarh, there is advance as well as basic. Then, where is the reason to be afraid?
Student – I want to stay in Chandigarh only later as well....
Baba – Stay then. Even if you are transferred, what is the problem? If you reach another place and there is no one [who follows the knowledge], start doing the service. Make you [spiritual] family large.
Student – They prove themselves that he is the one who cries, the one who laughs...
Baba – By It will not be proved by proving, I am this and I am that; I’m Ram, I’m Krishna. I’m God...
Student – Like in the Brahmin family everyone says for himself, I’m going to become this, I have accomplished [this stage], my 84 births parts are clear to me.
Baba – Nothing will happen on insisting either. Those who follow the Shrimat; follow according to the way Baba wants us to follow. It’s Baba’s job to reveal the children. The children’s job is to reveal Baba. They shouldn’t worry about themselves, about revealing themselves. If the children start to reveal themselves on their own then, instead of the revelation of the deities, there will be the revelation of the demons.
Student said something
Baba – That is certain. Our soul itself will recognise our self first. Why will anyone else recognise [us first]? And where is the need for the Supreme Soul Father to recognise 500 crore (5 billion) souls separately and say them, this one has this part? Neither will He recognise it nor He will say [the part]. What? Whatever is the part of whichever soul, that soul itself will recognise its part at first. Suppose, even if he doesn’t say this through his mouth; not to say it with the mouth is a good thing but through his act, his behaviour, his drishti (vision), his vibration, he will reveal himself. The others will also recognise, this is the part of such and such soul. He will also feel within himself: this is my part. Not only will he feel; he will present such practical proofs through his acts, through his words, that all will have to believe, this is his part. That’s why it is said in the Avyakt Vani; BapDada will not write on the board or in paper and say, “You have this part”.
Baba – is your question solved or not about how to do constant and easy remembrance?
Student – Yes.
Baba – It is solved then, it is a very big thing.
Student said something.
Baba – See in the Gitapathsalas as well as in the centres, all the students the same. Accha, go to Mount Abu. There are some such old Didis and Dadis who don’t do any work at all since morning till evening. They haven’t done any work in their life and are just sitting idle and eating. So, aren’t such followers of the knowledge, Baba’s children? That’s why, have firm belief on Baba’s words. Baba has said that if, even a single person has emerged from your family in the Advance Party, there is a guarantee that the whole family will follow the knowledge. Not in knowledge, but it will follow the advance [knowledge].
Student – Baba, will they come in the [count of] 9 lakh (900 thousand)?
Baba – Yes, they will definitely come [in the advance knowledge]. Out of the whole family, the family in the blood relation, among them if there is even a single fellow who has emerged in advance knowledge; not in basic, in advance; then there is a guarantee that the whole family will follow the advance knowledge one day. So, become worriless. Maintain with those of your family. What? Do not break up [with them].
Student – She wants to break-up herself.
Another Student - She doesn’t want to break-up, she wants to keep him under her control.
Baba – No, don’t come under her control either. For that Baba has said in Murli, neither should you ask anything to the family members, nor should you follow their opinion, but you have to follow Baba’s opinion. Baba has said, don’t break-up from your side. If they break-up let them break-up.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 31 Mar 2010

Discussion CD no.1 (Nepal party) Dated: 23-8-2003
Part - 4

Time: 44.50
Student – Now in advance [party] also, it will happen like this, isn’t it? At first it applies in the basic [knowledge]...

Baba – whatever has happened in the beginning, all that will happen in the end.
Student – in the end....
Baba - Before the revelation, whatever happened in the beginning, all that will happen in the end.
Student – in the shooting of the Iron Age.... The children put friction between Mama-Baba....
Baba – So, shouldn’t they be revealed? Hum? Shouldn’t they be revealed? In the beginning the knowledge was incomplete; that’s why they were saved. Now, the mirror of the knowledge is also becoming complete, isn’t it? Now, Madhuban has also become a palace of mirrors (sheeshe ka mahal). The Father has also become the biggest arsi… arsi means mirror.
Student – And Baba, in one Murli one point has also been mentioned that the Advance Party....
Baba - And Delhi (the capital of Uttar Pradesh) is called Dil (heart)... Delhi, the mirror of heart is also a very big mirror. So, the revelation is not far. It is now necessary to pay attention over our each and every behaviour. It shouldn’t happen that our part should be cleared as a demon or a witch.
Student said something.
Baba – The more you put jaggery (molasses) the more it will become sweet. What? Wherever our body is, our mind will be there. What? Wherever our wealth is, our mind will be there. This cannot happen at all that your mind doesn’t go in the direction where you invest the power of your body and bodily relatives. The wealth and all the things created by wealth; which have been earned by money; wherever your wealth and the things created by wealth go, your mind will definitely go there. Tan (body), dhan (wealth), dham (abode), svahard (affectionate ones), parivar (family)....where do you want to take them?
Student said something.
Baba – Where do you want to take?
Student – Baba, I have left it on you .Whatever Baba says…
Baba - What do I say? Why would I say? This is not the thing to say, this is the thing to do and show. It’s very easy to say.
Student – ....and it was said Krishna will be born in 2018.
Baba – It takes 30 years for Brahma to establish. What? It takes 30 years for destruction of the devilish elements in the world of Brahmins through Shankar; and another 30 years which will remain since 2006 to 2036, the sustenance will take place
Student – That means, Lakshmi will come within [the year]2006....
Baba – it depends on your identifying; whether [she] will come here or there, isn’t it? So, you identify.
Baba – The Confluence Age has been said to be of 100 years ; subtract 10 years of struggle in the beginning from it.

Student said something.
Baba – Brahma, Bap and Jagadamba, these three seats are fixed.
Student – Are there 3 seats in living form also?
Baba – Yes, there are in the living form also. If the 3 seats are not fixed, what will be explained in the advance knowledge?
Student – ‘Similarly, the Father Brahma Baap has only changed the place to accelerate the speed of service.’ The words, Bap (the Father) and Brahma have been said for Dada Lekhraj Brahma, haven’t they?
Baba – Yes, Dada Lekhraj and Prajapita have changed their place which means they are not in Mount Abu now.
Baba - Their intellect dwells in the outside world, their intellect is engaged in their lokik families; so, will they remain [behind] or will they take [the inheritance] from the Father? What will happen? They will remain [behind]. And those who haven’t climbed Baba’s shoulder, who stay in the household and run the Gita pathsalas, who are doing good service, but their mind is held only in Baba, their intellect remains held only in Madhuban; so, will they take away [the inheritance] or [will they] remain [behind]?

Student – They will take.
Baba- So, it is all about the connection of the intellect, isn’t it? It’s not about being inside and outside. Whether they are the ones who stay inside or outside; where is their connection of intellect? It is not that all the insiders will remain. What? It wasn’t said, all of those among the ones who stay inside will remain. It is [just] said that such samples will also emerge who live inside and will remain and such samples among the outsiders who will take away [the inheritance] will emerge as well.
Student ...all those who come in the list of 108....
Baba –....Are they insiders or outsiders?
Student – it is about the intellect and the knowledge, isn’t it?
Baba- The ones whose intellect is held only in Madhuban, are they insiders or the outsiders? There are lots of such mothers in bondage whose intellect remains entangles in [the thoughts of] Baba while cooking food, it remains held in Madhuban. So they are the residents of which place? Are they the residents of Madhuban or of the lokik family?
Student – [They are] the residents of Madhuban.
Baba –Then?
Student – Baba, there was one question; is the drama almighty or is Baba almighty? Please explain this point a little, I didn’t understand.
Baba – Is the drama inert or is it living? The time-cycle is called drama, isn’t it? So, is time inert or is it living? It is inert. And what about the soul?
Student – It is living.
Baba – So who will change whom?
Student – There was a point: I can’t change the drama.
Baba – Who can’t change it?
Student – A question for this Murli point was raised in B.K.
Baba – [The word] drama should never be used for the future. Whatever has passed is drama. That can’t change; that too of this one birth, this birth. We haven’t seen the rest of the 63 births . Your fortune is in your hand. You can make it in whichever way you want. Don’t pick up opposite knowledge. The worldly people say, is fate higher or is purusharth (special effort for the soul) higher?
Student –Purusharth.
Baba –Yes. [We] should give purushart a higher place. As regards the fate, we are experiencing according to whatever we have done in our previous births. This is our fate. Whatever we do now, we will make our life like that for many births.
Baba – first of all, make this sit in their intellect that the world is going to change. The Iron Age (Kaliyug) is about to go and the Golden Age (Satyug) is about to come. They will become ready to sell the house. There are many people following the knowledge who have so much property that they can easily sell it and continue to do Godly service, sustain with the interest obtained [and in this way] their whole life will be crossed. There is no need to do more hard labour at all.
Student – Jayram is making [a house] in Kampil .
Baba – No, Baba doesn’t say this. Why would Baba tell you to spend the money in soil? Baba has said in the Murli even for the Brahma kumar and kumaris: Take houses on rent and continue to run the ashram. It hasn’t been said in any Murli, [we] should make houses. Instead, it has been said, we should not make any property. It has been said in Murli, now the property shouldn’t be made. To make a house is to make a property.
Student said something.
Baba – The Pandavs don’t have a house of their own. The Pandavs are beggars.....they wander as beggars. Do Godly service. You should not take position, respect and status of this world. If [you] want to obtain attainment from God then [you] should be totally ‘nirman moha chit sang dosha’ (the one who is free from honour and status and has gained victory over attachment and influence of company). Follow being the one with a humble mind (nirman chit)
Student – The transformation of Delhi is the transformation of the whole world....
Baba – The transformation of Delhi won’t happen like this.
Student – The transformation of Delhi is the transformation of the whole world....
Baba – Delhi becomes a cemetery first. Then, Delhi becomes paristan (the land of fairies). Delhi is the only place in the world where the person of every religion has ruled. The eyes of the whole world are set on Delhi. There is no religion (dharm) who hasn’t ruled here. Everyone has exploited Delhi…
Student- The eye of the Father are also set on Delhi...
Baba – Yes, everyone has exploited Delhi, [everyone] has annihilated [it]. They have themselves become occupied [in Delhi] but have ruined Delhi. There is only one who had settled Delhi . He was Shah Jahan (a Mughal emperor). What?
Student – Shah jahan.
Baba –Yes. Or Prithvi Raj. What? You can either call him the king of the earth (prithvi) or the shah (emperor ) of the jahan (world). He is Hindu, he is Muslim, he is Sikh, he is Christian; leave thinking this in the intellect. Who decorated Delhi? They are only those two. One is Indraprasth; there is the story in the scriptures that says , Dharamraj i.e. Dharamraj Yudhsthir (the eldest brother among the Pandavas) settled Indraprasth Nagari in Delhi. But, the stories in the scriptures have become legends in a way. No historical proofs are available for that. The historical proofs of Prithvi Raj Chauhan and Shah Jahan are available. Even the most atheist person will believe these things. So, the whole world will become a cemetery later; Delhi becomes a cemetery first. Moreover, such indications [of it] can be seen. In the world, the extent to which maximum percentage of religions are spread in Delhi; there is no city in the world where there is dominance of [people of] all the religions in maximum percentage to that extent. What? Here, there are a lot of Englishmen sitting. They are sitting [here] having established their rule very nicely. Muslims too are sitting here having established their rule. Their head office in Jama Masjid (a mosque in Delhi). The Sikhs are also sitting having established their authority. What have they made in front of the Parliament House (sansad bhavan )? What is the name of that Gurudwara (the Sikh temple)?
Student – Sheeshganj.
Baba –Shishmahal Gurudvara?
Student –Yes. Is it the one near the Redfort (Lal-qilaa )?
Baba – No. Not the one near the Lal-qilaa. [The one] which is behind the Parliament House. There is also a great dominance (varcasva) of the Sikhs here, in Delhi. So, all the religions [i.e.] Hindu, Muslim, Sikh, Christian, all are present here.
Student – They have the feeling of revenge within...
Baba – Yes, and instead of establishing the religion, all of them are spreading controversies in the name of religion. They will cause destruction when they clash amongst each other. The astrologers also say that when there is destruction, all the 9 planets clash amongst each other. So, there are only 9 main and big religions in the world. What?
Student – 9 religions...
Baba – Yes, at first Suryavansh (the Sun dynasty) and Candravansh (the Moon dynasty) from Bharat, are called the oldest ones, [i.e.] the Sanatan dharma (Ancient Deity religioin). After that the old religion in the world is Islam religion of Abraham. Then, there is the Buddhist religion of Mahatma Buddha which is spread in the world. Then, there is the Christian religion of Christ. Then, there is the Muslim religion of Mohammad. Then, there are the Sanyasis who are spread, the ones wearing green, white, and yellow clothes [i.e.] the Sanyas religion established by Shankaracharya. Then, there is the Sikh religion. And at last are these Arya Samajis who have emerged within 100- 200 years; their rule is going on now, because they are in [their] true (satvik) stage now. They don’t believe in deities. What? It is written in the Gita: those who worship Me, find Me. Those who worship deities, they find deities. Those who worship the ghosts and spirits find ghosts and spirits. So, the Arya Samajis do not believe in the corporeal form of the Supreme Soul and they do not believe in the corporeal form of the deities either. They just keep performing Yagya (sacrificial fire) [saying] swaha (an exclamation used while making a burnt offering in the sacrificial fire ).
Student – The seed-form [soul] of the Aryasamji , the religious Father are all in the Advance Party also, aren’t they?
Baba – They will certainly be there. It is the Father comes who lays the foundation of every religion when He comes .
Student – Baba, they have made an encirclement around Delhi alone ?
Baba – Yes, their rule is going on here now. They have been named as Kaurav (the descendants of Kuru) in the scriptures. They are the one who make ‘rav’ means noise like the crows. (concluded)
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 06 Apr 2010

वार्तालाप नं.471, हैदराबाद, दिनांक 27.12.07

समयः 00.01-02.29
जिज्ञासुः शिवालय में पहले जाकर समझाओ, तुम इसपर पानी क्यों चढ़ाते हो । ऐसे बोलते हुए बाबा ने बोला गया तांड़े पर, मालिक बन बैठा। मतलब क्या है बाबा?

बाबा: जैसे कोई किचन में जाए आग लेने के लिए कि अपने चूल्हे की आग हमको दे दो। गया था मांगने के लिए और वहाँ किचन मास्टर बनके बैठ गया। तो गया था भीखमंगा बनके और बैठ गया मालिक बनके। तो ऐसे ही तुम जाओ शिवालय में, उन भक्तों को जाके पूछो कि तुम शिव के ऊपर पानी क्यों चढाते हो? और पानी भी कैसा? एक लोटा दूध में चुल्लू भर दूध और बाकी सारा पानी। तो वो तो बताय नहीं सकेंगे। तुम उनको बताओ कि भगवान बाप जब इस सृष्टि पर आते हैं, ज्ञान सुनाते हैं तो जो अधूरे ज्ञानी हैं, ज्ञान को पूरा समझते नहीं हैं, वो क्या करते हैं? जो बुद्धि रूपी लोटी पानी से भरी हुई है, उसमें थोडा़ सा ज्ञान जल डाला हुआ है, बाकी सारा ही पानी है। ऐसे पानी से भरी हुई बुद्धि रूपी लोटी को, लोटा नहीं। क्या? लोटी, माना कन्याओं को अर्पण करते हैं। उसकी यादगार में तुम आज भी क्या करते हो? आज भी तुम जड़ लोटी चढ़ाते हो। क्या? उसमें असली ज्ञान जल बहुत थोडा़ होता है और बाकी सब पानी ही पानी होता है। दूध के बिलोने से मक्खन निकलता है और पानी के बिलोने से कुछ भी नहीं निकलेगा।

समयः 02.33-07.00
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कहते हैं शंकर लव में लीन हो कर रहता है, वो शिव से कैसे प्यार? मुरली में कहा है, प्यार तो शरीर के साथ होता है। बिन्दी के साथ प्यार कैसे होता है?

बाबा: अच्छा, चलो शंकर की बात छोड़ दो। शंकर की बात बाद में उठायेंगे। कोई भी मनुष्य को उठाओ। पहले-2 हर मनुष्य को अपनी आत्मा से प्यार होता है। अपन से प्यार होता है। फिर किससे प्यार होता है? नेक्स्ट टू आत्मा, फिर किससे प्यार होता है? अपनी देह से प्यार होता है। पहले अपन से प्यार फिर अपनी देह से प्यार होता है। तो ऐसे ही शिव आत्मा है और शिव जिसमें प्रवेश करता है वो देह है और देह उसकी अपनी नहीं है। क्या? अपनी देह है क्या? अपनी नहीं है फिर भी उसको अपना लेता है। क्या? उसको अपना लेता है या किराया देके अलग कर देता है? अपना लेता है। आदि से लेकरके अंत तक मुकर्रर बना के रखता है।

तो जिसका तन है वो तनधारी अपना तन उसे एवर लास्टिंग हमेशा के लिए अर्पण कर देता है या ये समझता है कि मैं किराया लेके अलग हो जाऊंगा? दलाली लेके अलग हो जाऊंगा? एवर लास्टिंग देता है ना? तो जिस तन में वो सुप्रीम सोल प्रवेश करता है उस तन में याद नहीं कर सकता? कर सकता है। क्योंकि सबसे पहले तो हर एक को अपनी देह से प्यार होता है और वो प्यार तब और ज्यादा बढ़ जाता है जबकि भगवान के कार्य में लग जाए। ईश्वरीय सेवा में लग जाए। गायन भी है, जहाँ हमारा तन होगा, वहाँ हमारा मन होगा। अरबपति व्यक्ति अपना सारी जिन्दगी का कमाया हुआ अरबों रुपया किसी कारखाने में लगा दे और विदेश में चला जाए तो उसका मन कहाँ जाएगा? कारखाने में जाएगा ना? तो शंकर अपने ही तन के द्वारा उस तन में प्रवेश किए हुए निराकार बाप को याद नहीं कर सकता? कर सकता है। बल्कि दूसरे को याद करना मुश्किल होता है और अपने में याद करना तो सहज होता है। वो ही बिन्दु अपनी आत्मा के रूप में भृकुटी में याद करना सहज है या दूसरे स्थान पर दूसरे व्यक्ति में याद करना सहज है? अपने में याद करना, आत्मा को याद करना बहुत सहज है। इसलिए कहते हैं पहले अपन को क्या समझो? आत्मा समझो। तो शंकर को याद करना सहज है या और आत्माओं को याद करना सहज है? शंकर को याद करना तो और भी सहज है।

समयः 07.05-15.00
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कहते हैं राम वाली व्यक्तित्व की अनिश्चय रूपी मृत्यु नहीं होती है। इसलिए उनको अमरनाथ कहते हैं माना उनको निश्चय बिन्दी पर है या किसी और पर है? किसी के ऊपर है? बिन्दी पर निश्चय और अनिश्चय होने की बात ही नहीं।

बाबा: जिसको अपने पार्ट पर निश्चय हो जाए, वो अपनी आत्मा के ऊपर निश्चय हो जाना ये बाप के बगैर हो सकता है क्या? बच्चा जब तक ये न पहचाने कि मैं किसका बच्चा हूँ, किस कुल का हूँ तो उसको अपना आत्माभिमान, अपने कुल का अभिमान पैदा होगा? स्वाभिमान जागेगा? मिसाल दिया जाता है: एक राजा का बच्चा कोई कारणे-अकारणे जंगल में खो गया और भेडियों के बीच में रहने लगा, बचपन से ही; और बडा़ हो गया तब तक वो अपने को क्या समझता रहा? भेडि़या हूँ। भेडि़यों जैसी चलन बन गई, भेडियों जैसा शरीर बन गया लेकिन जब उसको पता चला कि मैं तो अमुक बाप का बच्चा हूँ, राजा का बच्चा हूँ तो बात बदल गई। तो ऐसे ही है। द्वापरयुग से हम भेडियों के संग में आते-2 जानवर बन गए। जानवरों से भी बदतर बन गए।

अभी बाप ने हमको परिचय दिया है। तो परिचय पाने वालों में जिस मुकर्रर रथ में बाप प्रवेश करते हैं, सबसे नजदीक कौन है? सुप्रीम सोल बाप के नजदीक कौन है? जिस तन में प्रवेश करते हैं वो सबसे जास्ती नजदीक। जैसे कहते हैं ब्रह्मा के तन में प्रवेश करके मुरली चलाता हूँ। तो पहले किसके कान सुनते हैं? ब्रह्मा के कान सुनते हैं। परंतु ब्रह्मा उर्फ कृष्ण की आत्मा बच्चा बुद्धि; तो सुनती तो है लेकिन समझती नहीं और राम की आत्मा तो राम बाप कहा जाता है। सारी मनुष्य सृष्टि का बाप है। उसमें प्रवेश करते हैं, तो वो सिर्फ़ सुनता ही नहीं है, नजदीक होकर समझता भी है। सच्चाई को देखता भी है। तो नजदीक होने के कारण उस स्वरूप में भी जल्दी टिक जाता है। अपने कुल की, अपने स्वरूप की स्मृति आ जाती है।

जिज्ञासु: वो पहचान कैसे कर पाता होगा?
बाबा: कोई व्यक्ति में भूत प्रवेश करता है। जब भूत प्रवेश करता है तो उसके चलन में फर्क आता है या नहीं? वो समझता भी है मेरे अन्दर कोई आत्मा प्रवेश है और प्रवेश की हुई आत्मा उसकी बुद्धि को भी घुमाती है। वो अनुभव करता है कि किसी ने हमारी बुद्धि को घुमाया और बार-2 प्रवेश करता है, बार-2 बुद्धि को घुमाता है तो जो उसका मानसिक वातावरण है, वायब्रशन है वो बदल जाता है या नहीं? थोडे़ समय में वो वातावरण भी उसका बदलता है, वायब्रेशन भी बदलता है और यहाँ तो भूत नहीं प्रवेश करता। यहाँ ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में प्रवेश करने वाला कौन है? स्वयं भगवान बाप प्रवेश करता है। लेकिन जिसमें प्रवेश करता है वो भी नहीं जानता है कि कौन प्रवेश करता है कि नहीं प्रवेश करता है। क्यों? क्योंकि बताय दिया है, मालूम कैसे पड़ता है कि इनमें बाप भगवान है? जब ज्ञान सुनाते हैं।

तो सन् 76 से पहले ज्ञान सुनाते हैं, बेसिक नॉलेज में आने मात्र से ही राम वाली आत्मा ज्ञान सुनाती है या बाद में सुनाती है? (किसी ने कहा: बाद में सुनाती है।) ब्रह्मा के तन में भी, दादा लेखराज के तन में भी सन् 36 से ही ज्ञान सुनाना शुरु कर दिया था या सन् 47 से पता चला कि इनमें बाप भगवान है? 47 से पता चला। इसी तरह ब्रह्मा के शरीर छोड़ने के बाद ब्राह्मणों के इस काँटों के जंगल में ब्रह्मा के बाद ऐसे नहीं कि कोई दूसरा होता नहीं है। होता तो है परंतु प्रत्यक्ष नहीं होता क्योंकि वाणी चलती नहीं है। अव्यक्त पार्ट रहता है, और वो अव्यक्त कब से प्रत्यक्ष होता है? जब से बाप का प्रत्यक्षता वर्ष मनाया जाता है। तो कैसे पता चलता है इनमें बाप भगवान है? जब एडवांस ज्ञान सुनाते हैं। तो पता चलता है, सब स्वीकार करते हैं कि ऐसा ज्ञान तो और कोई ब्रह्मणों में सुनाय ही नहीं सकता। ये तो भगवान बाप स्वयं आ करके क्लेरिफिकेशन दे रहा है टीचर के रूप में। तो औरों को पता चलेगा, जिसमें प्रवेश करता है उसको पता नहीं चलेगा? उसको तो और भी पहले पता चल जायेगा। निश्चय होता ही है बाप के ऊपर, निश्च्य होता ही है अपनी आत्मा के ऊपर और निश्चय होता ही है ड्रामा के ऊपर। कितनी बातों के ऊपर निश्चय? आत्मा के ऊपर निश्चय, आत्मा के बाप के ऊपर निश्चय और अपने पार्ट और आत्मा जिस ड्रामा में पार्ट बजाती है उस ड्रामा के ऊपर पक्का निश्चय पैदा हो जाए। उसको कहते हैं निश्चय बुद्धि विजयते।

Disc.CD No.471, dated 27.12.07 at Hyderabad

Time: 00.01-02.29
Student: [Baba has said] First go to a temple of Shiv and explain [to the devotees], why do you pour water over it (i.e. the Shivling)? While saying so Baba said, He went to the kitchen and became a master of it. Baba, what does it mean?

Baba: For example, if someone goes to a kitchen to borrow fire [saying]: Give me some fire from your stove. He went to seek [fire] and he became the kitchen master there. So, he went as a beggar but became a master. So, similarly, you go to the temple of Shiv (Shivalay) and ask those devotees, why do you pour water over Shiv[ling]? And what kind of water is it? In a tumbler of milk, there is a handful of milk and the rest is water. So, they will not be able to reply. You tell them, when God the Father comes in this world, when He narrates knowledge, the incomplete knowledgeable ones, those who do not understand the knowledge completely, what do they do? The intellect in the form of small vessel (loti) which is full of water, it contains little water of knowledge (i.e. milk) and all the rest is water. Such intellect in the form of small vessel (loti) full of water; its not a big vessel (lota); what? Loti means that they offer the virgins. In its remembrance, what do you do even to this day? Even to this day, you offer physical small vessel full of water. What? There is very little true water of knowledge and the rest is just water. Churning of milk produces butter and the churning of water will not produce anything.

Time: 02.33-07.00
Student: Baba, it is said that Shankar remains immersed in love [of Shiv]; how does he love Shiv? It has been said in Murli, love happens with the body. How can someone love a point?

Baba: OK, leave aside the topic of Shankar. We will raise Shankar’s point later on. Take the case of any human being. First of all, every human being loves his soul. He has love for himself. For whom does he love next? For whom does he love next to the soul? He has love for his own body. First he has love for himself and then for his body. So, similarly, Shiv is the soul; and the one in whom Shiv enters is a body and the body is not His own. What? Is it His own body? It is not His own body; even then He adopts it. What? Does He adopt it or does he pay the rent [for it] and separate it [from Himself]? He adopts it. He makes it permanent since the beginning to the end.

So, the one who owns the body, does that bodily being surrenders his body to Him everlastingly, forever or does he feel, I will collect the rent and dissociate? [Does he think] I will dissociate after taking the commission (dalali)? He gives it everlastingly, doesn’t he? So, can’t he remember [Him] in the body in which the Supreme Soul enters? He can, because first of all everyone loves his own body and that love increases further when it is invested in God’s task, when it is used for Godly service. It is also sung, wherever our body is, our mind will go there. If a millionaire invests millions of rupees earned by him throughout the life, in a factory and if he goes abroad; where will his mind go? It will towards the factory, will it not? So, can’t Shankar remember that incorporeal Father who has entered in the body through his own body? He can. Rather, it is difficult to remember in someone else and it is easy to remember in oneself. Is it easy to remember the same point as our soul in the middle of our forehead or is it easy to remember in some other place in some other person? It is very easy to remember in ourself, to remember the soul. This is why it is said, what should you think yourself to be first? Consider yourself to be a soul. So, is it easy for Shankar to remember [Shiv] or is it easy for other souls to remember [Shiv]? It is much easier for Shankar to remember [Shiv].

Time: 07.05-15.00
Student: Baba, it is said that the personality of Ram does not face the death in the form of doubt. This is why he is called Amarnath (lord of immortality), it means, does he have faith on a point or on anything else, on someone? There is no question of having faith or losing faith on a point at all.

Baba: The one who develops faith on his part, is it possible to develop faith on one’s soul without the Father? Unless a child realizes as to whose child he is, to which clan he belongs, will he develop the soul consciousness, the pride for his clan? Will he develop self-respect? An example is given: if the child of a king is lost in a jungle due to some reason or the other and started living amongst wolves, since his very childhood; what did he considered himself to be till he grew up ? I am a wolf. His behavior became like wolves; his body became like the body of wolves, but when he came to know that I am a child of such and such Father; I am the child of a king; the topic changed. So, it is in the same way. Since the Copper Age, we became animals while coming in the company of wolves. We became worse than animals.

Now the Father has given us the introduction. So, among those who receive the introduction, the appointed Chariot in whom the Father enters; who is closest? Who is closest to the Supreme Soul Father? The body in which He enters is the closest. For example, He says, I enter in the body of Brahma and narrate Murli. So, whose ears listen first? Brahma’s ears listen first. But Brahma alias Krishna’s soul has a child-like intellect. So, it does listen, but it does not understand and the soul of Ram is called the Father Ram. He is the Father of the entire human world. When He enters him, he not just listens, but also understands, being close. He also sees the truth. So, because of being close, he also becomes constant in that form soon. He recollects the memory of his clan, his form.

Student: How would he be recognizing?
Baba: Suppose a ghost enters a person. When the ghost enters, does any difference appear in his behavior or not? He also understands that a soul has entered in me and the soul that has entered moulds his intellect as well. He experiences that someone has moulded his intellect and it enters again and again and moulds his intellect repeatedly. So, does his mental atmosphere, the vibrations change or not? Within a short time his atmosphere changes as well as the vibrations change; and here it is not a ghost who enters. Who enters here in the world of Brahmins? It is God the Father Himself who enters. But even the one in whom He enters does not know as to whether someone enters or not. Why? Because it has been said, how do we come to know that God the Father is present in him? It is when he narrates the knowledge.

So, does he narrate the knowledge before the year [19]76, does the soul of Ram narrate knowledge just by entering the path of basic knowledge or does it narrate later on? (Someone said: he narrates later on.) Even in the body of Brahma, even in the body of Dada Lekhraj, did He start narrating knowledge since the year [19]36 itself or did they come to know since the year [19]47 that God the Father is present in him? They came to know since [19]47. Similarly, after Brahma left his body, it is not that there is no other person in this jungle of thorns of Brahmins after Brahma. He is indeed present, but he is not revealed because he does not narrate Vani. The part remains Avyakt (unmanifest) and since when is that [one who is] Avyakt revealed? [The Avyakt one is revealed] ever since the year of revelation of the Father is celebrated. So, how do we come to know that God the Father is present in him? When he narrates the advance knowledge. Then we come to know, everyone accepts that nobody else among the Brahmins can narrate at all such knowledge. It is God the Father Himself who has come and is giving clarification in the form of a Teacher. So, [when] others come to know, [will] the one in whom He enters not come to know? He will come to know much earlier. The very faith is on the Father; the very faith is on our soul and the very faith is on the drama. Faith on how many things? We should develop firm faith on the soul, faith on the Father of the souls and faith on our part and the drama in which the soul plays its part. That is called ‘the one with a faithful intellect gains victory’.

Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 07 Apr 2010

वार्तालाप नं.471, हैदराबाद, दिनांक 27.12.07

समयः 15.03-25.13
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, शंकरजी के भृकुटी में उनकी अपनी आत्मा अलग और शिव की आत्मा अलग दिखती है या दोनों मिलकर एक दिखती है?

बाबा: किसको?
जिज्ञासु: शंकर।
बाबा: पहली बात तो ये है कि ब्रह्मा की आत्मा को माना ब्रह्मा उर्फ कृष्ण बच्चे की आत्मा को राम की आत्मा के साथ जिसे राम बाप कहा जाता है, उससे टैली किया जा सकता है? और टैली करे तो 100% वास्ट अंतर दिखाई पडे़गा या साम्यता दिखाई पडे़गी? अंतर दिखाई पडे़गा। क्या अंतर दिखाई पडे़गा? जो बाप ने बोला है कि ये जो साधु, सन्यासी, गुरु होते हैं, वो अपन को ही भगवान समझ के बैठ जाते हैं। वो ज्ञानी हुए या अज्ञानी? अज्ञानी। क्योंकि बाप ने कहा है जो अपन को भगवान कहते हैं वो बडे़ ते बडे़ हिरण्यकाश्यप है। तो ब्रह्मा की आत्मा क्या समझ के बैठ गई? कि भगवान का साकार रूप इस सृष्टि पर अगर कोई है गीता का भगवान तो वो कौन है? ब्रह्मा की आत्मा यही समझती है कि मैं गीता का भगवान शिवोऽहम हूँ। वो खुले आम कहते भी थे कि मेरे अन्दर भगवान आता है, मैं भगवान के रथ को स्नान कराता हूँ। लेकिन जो ज्ञानी आत्मा होगी; बाप ज्ञान का सागर तो बाप का बच्चा भी मास्टर ज्ञान सागर होना चाहिए।

जब बाप अपने को गुप्त करके संसार में आता है तो बाप को फॉलो करने वाला अव्वल नम्बर बच्चा वो अपने को गुप्त रखेगा या प्रत्यक्ष करेगा? गुप्त रखेगा। तुम्हारा ज्ञान, मान, पद, पुरुषार्थ, दान सब कुछ गुप्त। तो राम वाली आत्मा जिसमें भगवान बाप, बाप के रूप में प्रत्यक्ष होता है वो स्वप्न में भी ऐसा नहीं सोच सकती कि मैं भगवान बाप हूँ या मेरा शंकर का पार्ट है या मेरा प्रजापिता का पार्ट है या मैं संगमयुगी कृष्ण हूँ, मेरा नारायण का पार्ट है, मैं शिव हूँ। जब स्वप्न में भी नहीं आ सकता तो स्वप्न मात्र सो संकल्प मात्र भी नहीं आ सकता। पहले संकल्प में आता है फिर वाचा में आता है, फिर प्रैक़्टिकल में भी जरूर आवेगा।

जिज्ञासु: ब्रह्मा बाबा अपने को भगवान का साकार रूप मानता है तो फिर उनको धारणाओं का राजा का उपाधि रिवार्ड कैसे दिया गया?
बाबा: कहते हैं भगवान इस सृष्टि की माता भी है, इस सृष्टि का पिता भी है। उसको कहते हैं त्वमेव माता च पिता त्वमेव। तो माता के रूप में सहनशक्ति का पार्ट कृष्ण की आत्मा बजाती है या शिव की आत्मा बजाती है? अगर ब्रह्मा उर्फ कृष्ण की आत्मा ने सहनशक्ति का पार्ट बजाया होता सारे सृष्टि की बडे़ ते बडी़ माँ का पार्ट बजाया होता तो 63 जन्म में भी बजा लिया होता। 63 जन्म में भी सबका दिल जीत लिया होता। परंतु ऐसा हुआ क्या? नहीं हुआ।

तो ये तो सोचना ही गलत है कि ब्रह्मा के अन्दर जो भी पार्ट चला धारणाओं का वो ब्रह्मा की सोल ने बजाया। नहीं। कौन बजाता है? बाप बजाता है। अभी भी कहते हैं तमोप्रधान आत्मा सेवा करती है या बापदादा सेवा करते हैं?
(किसी ने कहा: बापदादा करते है।) तो जैसे अभी बात ये लागू होती है वैसे उस समय भी ये बात लागू होती है कि कृष्ण की आत्मा अंतिम जन्म में तमोप्रधान होती है या सतोप्रधान? तमोप्रधान। और अभी भी तमोप्रधान कहे या सतोप्रधान? तमोप्रधान कहे। तो तमोप्रधान आत्मा ईश्वरीय सेवा नहीं कर सकती। ईश्वरीय सेवा कौन करता है? सतोप्रधान आत्मा ही प्रेरित करती है सेवा करने के लिए। बाकि तमोप्रधान आत्मा तो काम, क्रोध, लोभ, मोह, अहंकार, इन एक्टिविटी से ही फुर्सत नहीं मिलेगी।
जिज्ञासु: अगर ब्रह्मा बाबा ने ये धारणा किया तो ये गलत धारणा है। तो फिर धर्मराज का पार्ट शिव ही बजाएगा ना?
बाबा: पार्ट साकार में गाया जाता है या आकार और निराकार में गाया जाता है? पार्ट किसे कहते हैं? पार्ट सूक्ष्म वतन में चलता है, सूक्ष्म शरीरधारी का पार्ट गाया जाता है या साकार शरीरधारी का पार्ट गाया जाता है?
जिज्ञासु: जगदम्बा में प्रवेश करके करता होगा।
बाबा: जगदम्बा में भी प्रवेश करने वाला साकार आत्मा है, आकारी आत्मा है, अव्यक्त पार्टधारी है या व्यक्त आत्मा है?
जिज्ञासु: व्यक्त आत्मा है।
बाबा: व्यक्त आत्मा है? अव्यक्त आत्मा है। उसका अपना शरीर तो है ही नहीं। आत्मा का नाम पड़ता है या शरीर का नाम पड़ता है? नाम किसका होता है? शरीर का नाम होता है। तो जगदम्बा का नाम होता है। ये कोई नहीं कहता कि ब्रह्मा ने महाकाली का पार्ट बजाया क्योंकि ब्रह्मा की तो आत्मा काम करती है। शरीर किसका है? जगदम्बा का। नाम काम के आधार पर पड़ता है और काम सिर्फ आत्मा नहीं करती। आत्मा को क्या चहिए? शरीर भी चहिए।
जिज्ञासु: ऐसे कहा है जगदम्बा तो इंस्ट्रुमेंट है।
बाबा: ये ज्ञानियों के समझने की बात है और दूसरों को समझाने की बात है। जैसे हम ब्राह्मण अभी तक ये नहीं जानते। जब महिमा करने पे आते हैं तो ब्रह्मा ही ब्रह्मा नजर आता है। ये बुद्धि में नहीं आता कि सहनशक्ति का पार्ट किसने बजाया? किसने बजाया?
जिज्ञासु: शिव ने बजाया।
बाबा: ये तो अभी जानते हैं ना?
जिज्ञासु: बाप ने समझाया तब ही तो पता चला ना?
बाबा: नहीं, पहले नहीं जानते थे ना? नहीं जानते थे तो अज्ञानी थे ना? तो ऐसे ही ये अज्ञानियों और ज्ञानियों की समझने और समझाने की भाषा है कि जगदम्बा तो डब्बा है। वास्तव में सहनशक्ति के रूप में पार्ट बजाने वाला शरीरधारी कौन है? जगदम्बा है या दादा लेखराज ब्रह्मा है? (सभी ने कहा - दादा लेखराज ब्रह्मा।) दादा लेखराज ब्रह्मा है।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, क्लीयर नहीं होता।
बाबा: क्या क्लीयर नहीं होता?
जिज्ञासु: अभी कहा ब्रह्मा द्वारा सहनशक्ति का पार्ट शिव ने बजाया।
बाबा: तो शिव ने बजाया लेकिन शिव का अपना शरीर है?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं है।
बाबा: जिसका शरीर ही नहीं है उसका काम कहा जायेगा? काम किस आधार पर होता है? काम के आधार पर नाम होता है ना? तो जो नाम पडा़ ‘ब्रह्मा’ वो ब्रह्मा नाम शिव का है? ... शिव का तो नाम एक ही है। क्या? ‘मेरा नाम तो शिव ही है। वो कभी बदलता ही नहीं।’ कब बदलता है?
जिज्ञासु: जब शरीर बदलते हैं तो...
बाबा: तो दादा लेखराज का शरीर बदल गया तो नाम भी बदल गया।

Disc.CD No.471, dated 27.12.07 at Hyderabad

Time: 15.03-25.13
Student: Baba, does Shankarji see his soul and Shiv’s soul separately in the middle of the forehead (bhrikuti) or does he see both of them as one?

Baba: To whom?
Student: Shankar.
Baba: The first thing is that, can Brahma’s soul, i.e. Brahma alias child Krishna’s soul be tallied with the soul of Ram who is called the Father Ram? And if we tally both of them, will we find a 100% vast difference or will we find a similarity? We will find a difference. What difference will we find? The Father has said that these sages, sanyasis, gurus think themselves to be God. Are they knowledgeable ones or ignorant? [They are] ignorant; because the Father has said that those who call themselves as God are the biggest Hiranyakashyaps (a villainous character mentioned in the scriptures who declared himself as God). So, what did Brahma’s soul think itself to be? [It thought] that if there is any corporeal form of God, God of the Gita in this world, who is it? Brahma’s soul thinks that I am God of the Gita, I am Shiv (Shivoham). He even used to declare openly: God comes in me; I bathe the Chariot of Shiv. But a knowledgeable soul; when the Father is an ocean of knowledge, the Father’s child should also be the master ocean of knowledge (master: the one who does in practical).

When the Father comes in this world in a secret form, will the number one child who follows the Father keep himself hidden or will he reveal himself? He will keep himself hidden. Your knowledge, respect, post, purusharth (special effort for the soul), donation, everything is secret. So, the soul of Ram through whom God the Father is revealed in the form of the Father cannot think even in his dreams that I am God the Father or my part is that of Shankar or part is that of Prajapita or that I am the Confluence Age Krishna, my part is that of Narayan; I am Shiv. When it can’t come even in his dreams, then as the dreams, it cannot emerge in his thoughts either. First it emerges in the thoughts, then in words and then it will certainly emerge in practical too.

Student: If Brahma Baba considers himself to be the corporeal form of God, then how has he been given the reward (title) of king of virtues (dharnao ka raja)?
Baba: People say that God is the Mother as well as the Father of this world. He is called ‘twamev mata cha pita twamev’. So, does the soul of Krishna or the soul of Shiv play the part of tolerance in the form of a mother? Had the soul of Brahma alias Krishna played the role of tolerance, had he played the part of the biggest mother of the entire world, it would have played such a part in 63 births as well. It would have won everybody’s heart in 63 births as well. But did it happen so? It did not.

So, it is wrong to think that whatever part of virtues was played through Brahma was played by Brahma’s soul. No. Who plays that part? The Father (i.e. Shiv) plays that part. Even now it is said, does a tamopradhan soul (dominated by darkness or ignorance) do service or does BapDada do service?
(Someone said: BapDada does it). So, just as it is applicable now, this point is applicable for that time as well; is the soul of Krishna tamopradhan or is it satopradhan (consisting mainly in the quality of goodness and purity) in its last birth? [It is] tamopradhan. Moreover, even now should it be called tamopradhan or satopradhan? It should be called tamopradhan. So, a tamopradhan soul cannot do Godly service. Who does Godly service? It is the satopradhan soul which inspires to do service. As regards the tamopradhan soul, it will not have time for anything other than the activities of lust, anger, greed, attachment, and ego.
Student: If Brahma Baba inculcated this, then it is a wrong inculcation; so Shiv alone will play the part of Dharmaraj (the Chief Justice), will He not?
Baba: Are parts played in corporeal form or in subtle and incorporeal form? What is meant by a part? Is a part played in the Subtle Region, is there the praise of the part of a subtle bodily being or is there the praise of the part of a corporeal bodily being?
Student: He must be playing a part by entering in Jagdamba.
Baba: Even the soul which enters Jagdamba, is it a corporeal soul, a subtle soul, an Avyakt actor or a vyakt soul?
Student: It is a vyakt soul.
Baba: Is it a vyakt soul? It is an Avyakt soul. He does not have his own body at all. Is a soul named or is a body named? Who has a name? A body has a name. So, Jagdamba becomes famous. Nobody says that Brahma played the part of Mahakali (a Goddess) because it is the soul of Brahma that works. Whose body is it? Jagdamba’s body. Names are given on the basis of the task performed and it is not just the soul that acts. What does a soul require? It requires a body as well.
Student: It has been said that Jagdamba is an instrument.
Baba: It is something to be understood by the knowledgeable ones and explaining to the others. For example, we Brahmins do not know this till now. When we start praising we see just Brahma everywhere. It does not strike our intellect as to who played the part of tolerance? Who played it?
Student: Shiv played it.
Baba: We know this now, don’t you?
Student: We came to know only when the Father explained, didn’t we?
Baba: No. Earlier, we did not know, did we? We did not know so, we were ignorant, weren’t we? Similarly, this is a language to be understood and explained by the ignorant ones and the knowledgeable ones that Jagdamba is a box. Actually, who is the bodily being who plays the part of tolerance? Is it Jagdamba or Dada Lekhraj Brahma? (Everyone said – Dada Lekhraj Brahma). It is Dada Lekhraj Brahma.
Student: Baba, it is not clear.
Baba: What isn’t clear?
Student: Just now you said that Shiv played the part of tolerance through Brahma.
Baba: Shiv played that part, but does Shiv have His own body?
Student: He doesn’t have.
Baba: Will the one who does not have a body at all, be said to have performed the task? On what basis is a task performed? The name is based on the task performed, isn’t it? So, does the name ‘Brahma’ belong to Shiv? ... Shiv has only one name. What? ‘My name is only Shiv. It never changes.’ When does it change?
Student: When the bodies change…...
Baba: So, Dada Lekhraj’s body changed so, the name also changed.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 08 Apr 2010

वार्तालाप नं.471, हैदराबाद, दिनांक 27.12.07

समयः 25.16-28.58
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, मुरलियों में कहा गया है देह और देह सहित सब सम्बन्ध छोड़ दो एक बाबा को याद कर और दूसरे मुरलियों में कहा है सर्व सम्बन्धों से बाबा को याद कर।

बाबा: ठीक है।
जिज्ञासु: सर्व सम्बन्धों से बाबा को याद करना है। अगर नहीं करे तो ये जन्‍म में वो सम्बन्ध छूट जायेगा...
बाबा: छूट जायेगा और उसका मजा ही नहीं आएगा। उस सम्बन्ध के प्यार के लिए तड़पते रहेंगे। तो इसमें विरोधाभास आपको कहाँ दिखाई दे रहा है?
जिज्ञासु: देह सम्‍बन्‍ध छोड़ना और सब समबन्‍ध.... ।
बाबा: कमाल है। जिसे आप प्यार करने की बात, एक को प्यार करने की बात कर रहे हैं वो देहधारी है, उसकी बुद्धि देह में धरी रहती है या देह से परे रहने वाला है?
जिज्ञासु: देह से परे रहने वाला।
बाबा: तो आपने उसको देहधारी कैसे समझ लिया? जिससे आपको सम्बन्ध जोड़ना है वो विदेही है या देहधारी है? विदेही है ना? जो देहधारी होता है उसका ये स्वभाव-संस्कार होता है; देहधारी माना जिसकी बुद्धि देह में धरी रहे। उसका यह स्वभाव-संस्कार होता है कि जिस देह से सम्पर्क सम्बन्ध जोडे़गा उसकी उसे याद आती रहेगी। क्या? आँखों से देखेगा तो याद जरूर करेगा उसको। लेकिन वो ऐसा विदेही है; धर्मपिताओं की तरह नहीं है। धर्मपितायें भी इस सृष्टि पर आते हैं निराकारी दिखाई पड़ते हैं। चेहरे से कैसे दिखाई पड़ते हैं? निराकारी दिखाई पड़ते हैं। लेकिन पहला जन्म जब उनका पूरा होता है तो अंजाम क्या होता है? देहधारी रहते हैं या विदेही बनके रहते हैं? देहधारी बन जाते है। क्यों? देह में लगाव लग गया और यहाँ क्या है? यहाँ भगवान बाप, बाप के रूप में जिस तन के द्वारा प्रत्यक्ष होते हैं वो लगाव वाला पार्ट नहीं है, देह में बुद्धि धरी नहीं रहती है। कितनी भी देहधारियों से सम्पर्क सम्बन्ध जोडे़, परंतु कैसा पार्ट बजाता है? विदेही पार्ट बजाता है। कोई लगाव नहीं, कोई अटैचमेंट नहीं। इसलिए बोला कि बाप आशुक बन करके आता है या माशूक बनके आता है? (किसी ने कहा: माशूक बनके।) क्यों? आशिक जो होता है वो दूसरे के ऊपर आसक्त हो जाता है, लगाव पैदा हो जाता है, और माशूक? एक माशूक से अनेकों आशिक हो जाते हैं। तो ये तो ऐसा बेहद का माशूक है जो किसी में खुद नहीं फँसता लेकिन 500-700 करोड़ की जो भी दुनिया है, चाहे सजा खाने वाले हैं और चाहे सजा न खाने वाले हैं, सबकी बुद्धि उस एक में इतनी आसक्त हो जायेगी कि सब उसके पीछे-2 जावेंगे। कहाँ जावेंगे? घर में जायेंगे।

समयः 29.03-32.39
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, तो आपको सजनी के रूप में याद कर सकते हैं ना?

बाबा: मेरे को काहे के लिए सजनी के रूप में याद करते हो? मैं तो ढाढी़-मूंछ वाला हूँ, रोज ढाढी़ बनानी पड़ती है। सजनी को तो ढाढी़ ही नहीं होती है। मेरी बात नहीं है। आप ये गलत बात बोल रहे हैं। मेरे को सजनी के रूप में कैसे याद करेंगे?
जिज्ञासु: आपके अन्दर शिवबाबा को सर्व सम्बन्ध के रूप में याद करना है ना ।
बाबा: वो शिव बाबा कहते हैं, वो बात सही है। वो शिवबाबा कहते हैं; शिव बाबा जो कहते हैं और शिव बाबा का कहा हुआ जो बच्चे सुनते हैं, समझते हैं वो एक ही तरह का पार्ट बजावेंगे या दोगला पार्ट बजावेंगे? एक ही तरह का पार्ट बजावेंगे। तन, मन, धन, अपने पत्नी, बाल, बच्चे अर्पण कर देंगे तो फिर वापस लेने वाले नहीं है। बेवकूफ बनाने वाले नहीं हो सकते। अगर बेवकूफ बनाते हैं ... क्या? देकरके फिर वापस ले लेते हैं, चांडाल का पार्ट बजाते हैं तो वो भगवान समझते हैं कि ऊपर से कहते हैं भगवान? ऊपर से कहते हैं भगवान। वास्तव में वो भगवान है नहीं उनके दृष्टि में।

जैसे देवताओं को अमृत बाँटा गया, असुरों को भी बाँटा गया। पहले किसको बाँटा गया? देवताओं को बाँटा गया। देवताओं का नम्बर लगा तो उसमें कौन घुसके बैठ गया? असुर घुसके बैठ गया। तो वो असुर अपने को ये दिखाता है कि मैं देवता हूँ या राक्षस हूँ? वो तो यही दिखाएगा, मैं देवता हूँ। तो भगवान को भगवान बाप कहेगा या शैतान कहेगा? क्या कहेगा? बाप ही कहेगा। लेकिन भगवान तो बडा़ छुपा रुस्तम है। ऐसा छुपा रुस्तम है जिसके लिए कहा जाता है छुपा रुस्तम बाद में खुले। क्या? बाद में खुलेगा या कोई अभी प्रत्यक्ष कर सकता है? कोई कहे कि हम तो कागज में चित्र छपा देंगे, फोटो छपा देंगे, अभी प्रत्यक्ष कर देंगे। तो हो जायेगा? बिल्कुल नहीं हो सकता। अपनी चलन से, अपने चेहरे से, अपने चरित्र से ही भगवान बाप को प्रत्यक्ष किया जा सकता है। चित्र छ्पाकर प्रत्यक्ष करना, ये तो भक्तिमार्ग में होता आया बहुत। द्वापरयुग से 63 जन्म से प्रत्यक्ष करते आए भगवान को। भगवान प्रत्यक्ष हुआ क्या? नहीं हुआ। अभी संगमयुग में प्रत्यक्ष हो जायेगा क्या? हम दूसरों को समझायें और कहें आप भगवान हैं, आप हमें जवाब दो, भगवान हैं कि नहीं। तो भगवान मान लेगा? अरे, वो तो गुरु लोग होते हैं जो उनसे कहो – ‘भगवान, महाराज’, तो स्वीकार कर लेते हैं हाँ, हम भगवान है। महाराज है।

Disc.CD No.471, dated 27.12.07 at Hyderabad

Time: 25.16-28.58
Student: Baba, it has been said in Murlis, leave the body and all the bodily relationships along with the body and remember one Baba and in another Murlis it has been said, we should remember Baba in all the relationships.

Baba: It is correct.
Student: We have to remember Baba in all the relationships. If we don’t remember, that relationship will be left [to be experienced] in this birth….....
Baba: It will be left and we will not enjoy that [relation] at all. You will keep longing for that relationship. So, where do you find the contradiction in this [two statements]?
Student: Leaving the bodily relations and all the relations…...
Baba: It is surprising! The one whom you love, the subject of loving the One, is He a bodily being, does His intellect remain entangled in the body or is He the one who remains detached from the body?
Student: He remains detached from the body.
Baba: So, how did you consider Him to be a bodily being? The one with whom you have to establish relationship, is He bodiless (videhi) or a bodily being (dehdhari)? He is bodiless, isn’t He? A bodily being has this nature and sanskar; bodily being (dehdhari) means the one whose intellect remains entangled in a body. It has the nature and sanskar that it will keep remembering the body with which it establishes contact and connection. What? If he sees someone through the eyes, he will certainly remember him/her. But He is such a bodiless one; He is not like the religious fathers. When the religious fathers also come in this world; they appear to be incorporeal. How does their face appear? They appear to be incorporeal, but what is the result when their first birth is over? Do they remain a bodily being or do they remain bodiless? They become bodily beings. Why? They developed attachment for the body. And what is the case here? Here, the body through which God the Father, is revealed in the form of the Father, does not play a part of attachment; his intellect does not remain entangled in the body. He may establish contact and relationship with any number of bodily beings, but what kind of a part does he play? He plays a bodiless part. There is no attachment. This is why it has been said, does the Father come in the form of a lover (aashuk) or a beloved (maashuk)? (Someone said: In the form of a beloved.) Why? A lover becomes attached to others, he develops attachment and what about the beloved? Many lovers start loving one beloved. So, this one is such an unlimited beloved one who himself does not entangle in anyone, but the world of 500-700 crores (5-7 billion), whether they are the ones who suffer punishments and whether they are the ones who don’t suffer punishments; everybody’s intellect will become so attached in that one that all will follow him. Where will they go? They will go home.

Time: 29.03-32.39
Student: Baba, so we can remember you as our wife, can’t we?

Baba: Why do you remember me as your wife? I have beard and moustache. I have to shave everyday. A wife does not have a beard at all. It is not about me. You are telling the wrong thing. How will you remember me as your wife?
Student: We have to remember ShivBaba in you by all the relationships, haven’t we?
Baba: ShivBaba says that, it is all right. ShivBaba says that; those who call him ‘ShivBaba’ and will the children who listen, understand the words spoken by ShivBaba play only one kind of part or will they play dual role? They will play only one kind of role. If they surrender their body, mind, wealth, wife, children, they will not take it back. They cannot make anyone fool. If they fool someone .....What? If they give [something] and then take it back, if they play the part of a chandaal (cremator), then do they think him (the one in whom the Supreme Soul enters) God or do they call him ‘God’ artificially? They call him God artificially. Actually, He is not God in their eyes.

For example, when nectar was distributed among the deities, it was also distributed to the demons. To whom was it distributed first? It was distributed to the deities [first]. When the turn of the deities came, who came stealthily and sat among them (in the queue to receive the nectar)? A demon sat stealthily amidst them. So, does that demon show himself to be a deity or a demon? He will indeed show that he is a deity. So, will he call God as God the Father or a demon? What will he call him? He will call him the Father only. But God is a big hidden rostum (hidden hero). He is such a hidden rostum for whom it is said, the hidden rostum is revealed in the end. What? Will he be revealed later on or can anyone reveal him now? If anyone says, I will get picture printed on papers, I will get photographs printed, I will reveal him immediately so, will he be revealed? He cannot [be revealed at all]. God the Father can be revealed only through our behaviour, our face, our character. Revealing Him by getting pictures printed has been happening a lot in the path of Bhakti (devotion). You have been revealing God since the Copper Age for 63 births. Was God revealed? No. Will he be revealed now in the Confluence Age? If we explain to others and say [him], you are God; give me an answer as to whether you are God or not? Will God accept? Arey, it is about those gurus that if you say them, 'Bhagwan, Maharaj', they accept [the salutations, saying], Yes, “I am God, I am Maharaj.”

Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 09 Apr 2010

वार्तालाप नं.471, हैदराबाद, दिनांक 27.12.07

समयः 32.40
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, 63 जन्मों में आपका सजनी रूप होता है कि नहीं?

बाबा: 63 जन्मों में आपका क्या वो सभी का आधे जन्म में स्त्री का आधे जन्म में पुरुष का रूप होता है। हर आत्मा एक जन्म स्त्री का और एक जन्म पुरुष का लेती है।
जिज्ञासु: संगमयुग में आपको सजनी के रूप में याद करना, नहीं करना?
बाबा: किसको? शिवबाबा को याद करो।
जिज्ञासु: नहीं साकार में निराकार को याद करेंगे ...
बाबा: शिव बाबा को सजनी के रूप में याद करो, चाहे साजन के रूप में याद करो। वो तो बोल दिया अव्यक्त वाणी में, ये तुमको ऐसा खिलौना मिला है, उसको जिस रूप में चाहो उस रूप में उससे तुम खेल सकते हो। लेकिन देहअभिमान नहीं आना चहिए। क्या? अपन को क्या समझो? आत्मा समझो। ये नहीं, मैं तो पुरुष हूँ। पुरुष पने का भान आया और फिर कहे ये हमारी सजनी है, ये नहीं हो सकता।
दुसरा जिज्ञासु: सजनी के रूप में याद किया बाबा को तो फिर उनका सजनी का जन्‍म हो जायेगा। जैसे रुद्रमाला के स्त्री का...
बाबा: सुनो, सुनो सुनो। जब ये बोलते हैं, तो ये सोचना चाहिए कि हम भगवान बाप को सजनी के रूप में याद करते हैं। तो जो सजनी के रूप में याद करने वाला है वो सब सजनियों की लिस्ट में आता है, सब सीताओं की लिस्ट में आता है, ‘तुम सब सीतायें हो’ या राम बाप की लिस्ट में आ गया?
दुसरा जिज्ञासु: राम बाप की लिस्ट में आ गया।
बाबा: शिवोऽहम।
दुसरा जिज्ञासु: वो भाई बोल रहे हैं।
बाबा: वो भाई के ऊपर मत डालो, अभी पूछ रहे हो तुम।
दुसरा जिज्ञासु: उन्‍होंने कहा, मैंने तो नहीं कहा। उन्‍होंने कहा सजनी के रूप में याद करे....सजनी के रूप में याद करेंगे तो सजनी की लिस्‍ट में जाएगा।
बाबा: हाँ जी, बाप कहते हैं, मैं हूँ साजन एक और तुम सब सजनियाँ हो। मैं हूँ एक राम बाप और तुम सब सीतायें हो। तो ये बात कहना कि हम राम बाप है और भगवान को इंट्रोड्युस करना, तू सजनी बनके दिखा। इसका मतलब शिवोऽहम बनकरके बैठा हुआ है।
जिज्ञासु: 63 जन्‍मों में आपका रूप फीमेल का मिलता है नहीं मिलता है?
बाबा: अरे तुम जिसको भगवान कहते हो वो शिव को भगवान कहते हो या ब्रह्मा और प्रजापिता को भगवान कहते हो?
जिज्ञासु: साकार में निराकार को भगवान कहते हैं हम।
बाबा: एक आत्मा के ऊपर दृष्टि है या दो आत्माओं के ऊपर दृष्टि है या दोनो में जो ऊँच ते ऊँच है उसके ऊपर दृष्टि है, इंट्रोड्युस किसको कर रहे हैं? शिव को करना चाहिए। लेकिन जिस तरह का ये प्रश्न है उससे क्या साबित होता है? शिव को इंट्रोड्युस कर रहे हैं या बुद्धि में साकार बसा हुआ है? स्त्री और पुरुष चोले का जन्म लेने वाली बात साकार के लिए लागू होती है या जो एवरप्योर निराकार है उसके लिए लागू होती है? ब्रह्माकुमारियों ने भी यही गलती की। क्या गलती की? दादा लेखराज ब्रह्मा को ही सबकुछ समझ लिया। माँ-बाप समझ लिया। नहीं, जब गोद में जाते थे तो किसकी गोद में जाने की मस्ती लेते थे? ब्रह्मा की गोद में जाने की, ब्रह्मा से बातें करते हैं, ब्रह्मा ही भगवान है। बुद्धि में से ये उड़ गया कि ये ज्ञान सुनाने वाला शिव है। ये ब्रह्मा ज्ञान सुनाने वाला नहीं है। ये गलती यहाँ भी होती है। राम के भक्त रहीम के बन्दे हैं ये सब आँखों के अन्धे; ऐसे ही प्रश्न करते हैं।
जिज्ञासु: ऐसे बातें करके कंफ्युज करते हैं बाबा आप। सही जवाब मिल नहीं रहा है। सर्व सम्बन्ध जोड़ते हैं ना बाबा?
बाबा: सम्बन्ध जो है वो शिव के साथ जोड़ने हैं, आत्मा शिव के साथ सम्बन्ध जोड़ने हैं। ये समझ करके सम्बन्ध जोड़ने हैं कि हम शिव एवर प्योर के साथ सम्बन्ध जोड़ रहे हैं; या जो एवर इम्प्योर है वो बुद्धि में रहना चाहिए? कौन बुद्धि में रहना चाहिए? एवर प्योर शिव बुद्धि में रहना चाहिए। जिसकी बुद्धि में एवर प्योर शिव होगा वो ये प्रश्न कर ही नहीं सकता कि आपके स्त्री जन्म होते हैं कि नहीं? वो अजन्मा है या जन्म-मरण के चक्र में आने वाला है? वो तो अजन्मा है।
जिज्ञासु: जब हमारा मेल-फीमेल का जन्म होता है, आपका भी होता है ना बाबा?
बाबा: फिर वो ही आपका-2। पता नहीं किससे बात करते हैं।
जिज्ञासु: प्रजापिता से।
बाबा: अरे भाई हमे बातें करनी है, हमे मिलना है, जुलना है, दृष्टि लेनी है, हमें जो वर्सा लेना है वो शिवबाबा से वर्सा लेना है या प्रजापिता से वर्सा लेना है? शंकर से वर्सा लेना है या शिवबाबा से वर्सा लेना है? (सभी: शिवबाबा से।) यहाँ किससे बात कर रहे हैं?
जिज्ञासु: सर्व सम्बन्ध किससे जोड़ना है? प्रजापिता से जोड़ना है या शिवबाप से जोड़ना है?
बाबा: शिवबाबा साकार में आकरके सर्व सम्बन्ध जुड़वाता है। सम्बन्ध कहा ही तब जाता है जब समान बन्धन हो। क्या? सम्बन्ध जोड़ने वाला भी साकार शरीरधारी हो और जिससे सम्बन्ध जोडा़ जा रहा है वो भी साकार शरीरधारी हो। तब ही सम्बन्ध कहा... सम माने समान, बन्धन माने बन्धन। समान बन्धन। सम माने सम्पूर्ण, बन्धन माने बन्धन। सम्पूर्ण बन्धन; चाहे जिस रूप में हो। तो जो भी सम्बन्ध जोड़ने हैं वो कौनसी आत्मा के साथ? (जिज्ञासु: शिवबाप के साथ।) फिर? वो तो स्त्री और पुरुष चोला का जन्म होने की बात ही नहीं है। वो तो सिर्फ़ एक ही जन्म लेता है साकार में।
जिज्ञासु: शिवबाप से सम्बन्ध जोड़ेंगे तो साकार तन तो होगा ना बाबा?
बाबा: वो 63 जन्म लेता है?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं, नहीं। साकार....
बाबा: अरे नहीं-2 क्यों? अभी क्या बोला?
जिज्ञासु: कन्‍फयुज करने में नम्‍बर वन है।
बाबा: अच्छा एक बात सुनो;ज्ञान में आने के बाद, ब्राह्मण बनने के बाद जो ब्राह्मण बनते हैं, ब्रह्मा की औलाद बनते हैं, ब्रह्मा के मुख की वाणी को फॉलो करते हैं प्रैक्टिकल जीवन में, जो पवित्र बनते हैं उनकी बुद्धि कंफ्युज होती है या जो अपवित्र बनते हैं उनकी बुद्धि ज्यादा कंफ्युज होती है? (सभी: जो अपवित्र बनते हैं।) जयसियाराम।
जिज्ञासु: पवित्र बुद्धि अंत में होती है। अंत का गायन है, बीच का गायन है? आगे जाकरके पवित्र तो बनेंगे ना?
बाबा: अब गलतियाँ तो सबसे होती हैं। मनुष्य का काम ही है भूलों का पुतला बनना । लेकिन बाप कहते हैं तुम मनुष्य ब्राह्मण जन्म लिया है। इसलिए गलतियाँ तो करते हो लेकिन एक वो ब्राह्मण है जो अपनी गलती को छुपाय लेते हैं और एक वो ब्राह्मण है जो अपनी गलती को छुपाते नहीं लिखके फटाफट दे देते हैं। ज्यादा कंफ्युज कौन होंगे?
जिज्ञासु: आगे चलके हम भी लिखके देंगे।
बाबा: तो आगे चलके कंफ्युज नहीं होंगे। आगे चलके देंगे तो आगे कंफ्युज नहीं होंगे अभी जो लिख करके देते हैं वो अभी कंफ्युज नहीं होंगे।
जिज्ञासु: किधर से किधर ले गए बाबा।
बाबा: गड्ढे से निकाल करके ऊपर परमधाम में ले जाते हैं, चोटी पे ले जाते हैं।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, उनका कहना है जो साकार....
बाबा: आप उनके कहने को ज्यादा समझते हैं। भाई बन्ध है क्या? हाँ बोलो-4.

Disc.CD No.471, dated 27.12.07 at Hyderabad

Time: 32.40-53.21
Student: Baba, do you take the form of a wife in 63 births or not?

Baba: It is not just about you, everyone takes half of the births as females and half the births as males in the 63 births. Every soul takes one birth as female and one birth as male.
Student: Should we remember you in the Confluence Age as a wife or not?
Baba: Whom? Remember ShivBaba.
Student: No. We will remember the incorporeal in the corporeal one....
Baba: Remember ShivBaba in the form of wife or a husband. It has been said about it in Avyakt Vani, you have received such a toy that you can play with it in whichever form you wish to. But you should not become body conscious. What? What should you think yourself to be? Consider yourself to be a soul. You should not think that ‘I am a man’. If you become conscious of the manliness and then you say that this one (i.e. God) is my wife, it is not possible.
Another Student: If we remember Baba in the form of a wife, then he (Baba) will become his wife. For example, the females in the Rudramala (the rosary of Rudra)...
Baba: Listen, listen, listen; when you say so, you should think that we remember God the Father in the form of a wife. So, is the one who remembers him (the corporeal one) in the form of a wife, included in the list of 'all are wives', in the list of 'all are Sitas' or is he included in the list of the Father Ram?
Another Student: He is included in the list of the Father Ram.
Baba: Shivoham (I am Shiv).
Another Student: That brother is telling [this].
Baba: Don't put the blame on that brother. Now you are asking.
Another Student: He said so, I didn’t say it. He said, remember (the corporeal one) in the form of wife….if he remembers him in the form of wife, he (ShivBaba) will be enlisted in the list of wives.
Baba: Yes, the Father says: I, the husband, am one and you all are wives. I, the Father Ram, am one and you all are Sitas. So, if someone says that he is the Father Ram and introduces God asking Him to become his wife means that he is sitting as 'I am Shiv'.
Student: Do you take the form of a female in the 63 births or not?
Baba: Arey, the one whom you call God; do you call Shiv as God or do you call Brahma and Prajapita as God?
Student: We call the incorporeal one in the corporeal one as God.
Baba: Do you see one soul or two souls or do you see the highest on high between both of them? Whom are you introducing? You should introduce Shiv. But what does this kind of a question prove? Are you introducing Shiv or is [the thought of] the corporeal one filled in your intellect? Is the point of taking birth as a female or male applicable for the corporeal one or for the ever pure incorporeal one? Brahmakumaris also committed the same mistake. Which mistake did they commit? They considered Dada Lekhraj Brahma to be everything. They considered him to be their mother and Father. No, when they used to go into his (Brahma Baba’s) lap, they used to enjoy the pleasure of being in whose lap? [They used to enjoy the pleasure of being] going into the lap of Brahma, [they used to think] we talk to Brahma; Brahma himself is God. It vanished from the intellect that the narrator of knowledge is Shiv. This Brahma is not the narrator of knowledge. This mistake is committed here, too. The devotees of Ram and the followers of Rahim are all blind. They keep raising such questions.
Student: Baba, you confuse us by talking in such a way. We are not getting correct reply. Baba, we establish all the relationships, don't we?
Baba: The relationships are to be established with Shiv, with the soul Shiv. Should we establish relationships thinking that we are establishing relationship with the ever pure Shiv or should the ever impure one be in your intellect? Who should be in your intellect? The ever pure Shiv should be in the intellect. The one in whose intellect there is ever pure Shiv cannot raise this question at all as to whether you (i.e. Baba) take female births or not? Is he the one who is not born (ajanma) or is He the one who passes through the cycle of birth and death? He is ajanma.
Student: Baba, when we receive birth as a female or a male, you too receive birth [as a female or a male], don't you?
Baba: Again you are saying 'you, you'; I don't know with whom do you talk?
Student: Prajapita.
Baba: Arey brother, if we have to talk, if we have to meet, if we have to take drishti, if we have to obtain the inheritance, should we have to obtain the inheritance from ShivBaba or from Prajapita? Should we have to obtain the inheritance from Shankar or from ShivBaba? (Everyone said - From ShivBaba.) With whom are you talking here?
Student: With whom should we establish all the relationships? Should we establish [all the relationships] with Prajapita or with the Father Shiv?
Baba: ShivBaba comes in a corporeal form and enables us to establish all the relationships. The question of relationship (sambandh) arises only when there is an equal bond (samaan bandhan). What? The one who establishes a relationship should be a corporeal bodily being as well as the one with whom the relationship is being established should be a corporeal bodily being. Only then it is called a relationship (sambandh)... ‘Sam’ means samaan (equal), ‘bandhan’ means bond; equal bond. ‘Sam’ means ‘sampoorna’ (complete/perfect), ‘bandhan’ means bond. Complete bond, in whichever form it may be. So, with which soul are all the relationships to be established? (Student: With the Father Shiv.) Then? There is no question of His taking birth as a female or as a male at all. He takes only one [divine] birth in a corporeal form.
Student: Baba, when we establish relationship with the Father Shiv, the corporeal body will be present, will it not?
Baba: Does He (the Father Shiv) take 63 births?
Student: No, no, the corporeal one…..
Baba: Arey, why are you saying 'no, no'? What did you say just now?
Student: [You] are number one in confusing [others].
Baba: OK, listen to one thing. After entering the path of knowledge, after becoming a Brahmin, those who become Brahmins, those who become Brahma's children, those who follow the versions emerging from Brahma's mouth in their practical life, and those who become pure - does their intellect feel confused or does the intellect of those who become impure become more confused? (Everyone said: Those who become impure). Jai Siya Ram (Victory to Sita and Ram).
Student: The intellect becomes pure in the last. Is it the praise of the last period or the middle period? We will become pure in future, will we not?
Baba: Well, everyone commits mistakes. It is human to err. But the Father says, you, a human being are born as a Brahmin. This is why, you do commit mistakes, but one kind of Brahmins are those who hide their mistakes and the other kind of Brahmins are those who do not hide their mistakes, give it in writing immediately. Who will be more confused?
Student: In future we will also give in writing.
Baba: So, you will not be confused in the future. If you give it (mistakes in written) in future, you will not be confused in future and those who give in writing now will not be confused now.
Student: Baba, you have diverted the topic.
Baba: Baba pulls you out from the pit and takes you to the Supreme Abode, to the peak.
Another Student: Baba, he means to say that the corporeal....
Baba: You understand his versions in a better way. Are you brothers? Yes, yes, speak up.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 10 Apr 2010

वार्तालाप नं.471, हैदराबाद, दिनांक 27.12.07

जिज्ञासु: बाबा, उनका कहना है जो साकार शरीरधारी 63 जन्म में सजनी बनता है पर 63 जन्म में तो शिव होता ही नहीं है। सम्बन्ध तो अपने संगम पर जोड़ना है तो वो 63 जन्मों का हिसाब ले रहे हैं?
बाबा: यहाँ जो सम्बन्ध जुड़ते हैं वो शिव के साथ...जिनकी बुद्धि में रह्ता है हमने शिव के साथ सम्बन्ध जोडा़, वो आत्मायें पवित्र बनेंगी जन्म-जन्मांतर के लिए या अपवित्र बनेंगी? पवित्र बनेंगी ना? और जो सबसे जास्ती पवित्र बनने वालों की लिस्ट में होगा, वो औरों-2 के सम्बन्ध में आवेगा क्या? जैसे विजयमाला की हेड। एवर प्योर के साथ एक सम्बन्ध जोड़ करके पक्का रखती है। औरों के साथ व्यभिचार में दृष्टि से, वृत्ति से, वाचा में नहीं आती है। तो अनेक जन्मों तक उसका जो सम्बन्ध जुडे़गा और एक के साथ जुडे़गा, वो राजा के रूप में जुडे़गा या रानी के रूप में जुडे़गा? रानी के रूप में जुडे़गा। वो भगवान और वो जन्म जन्मांतर के लिए भक्त। ‘तुम सब भक्तियाँ हो, तुम सब सीतायें हो।’ वो तो पवित्र रहने वालों की दृष्टि हैं। और जो भारत के राजायें हैं उनकी कैसी दृष्टि है? विकारी दृष्टि वाले हैं। और पता नहीं कौन -2 से धर्म में जाके गिरने वाले हैं।
जिज्ञासु: तो बाबा, 63 जन्मों में विजयमाला के हेड के साथ आप ही के साथ सम्बन्ध रहेगा क्या? नहीं रहेगा ना।
बाबा: जो सर्व सम्बन्ध सर्व आत्माओं के साथ खोलकरके सबको छूट दे रहा है उसकी शूटिंग एक के साथ होगी या अनेकों के साथ होगी? (किसी ने कहा: एक के साथ।) नहीं? जिसमें प्रवेश करता है उसके लिए लागू होता है। वो ऊपर वाला कुछ नहीं लेता है। न लेता है, न देता है। ये तो जिनके साथ सम्बन्ध जुड़ते हैं, उस एवर प्योर के साथ उनके बुद्धियोग की बात है। तो, जो बच्चे एक के साथ सर्व सम्बन्ध जोड़ने वाले हैं उनमें रुद्रमाला के मणके भी है और विजयमाला के भी मणके होंगे। ज्यादा प्रश्नों की झडी़ रुद्रमाला के मणकों की बुद्धि में आयेगी या विजयमाला के मणकों के बुद्धि में आवेगी? ( किसी ने कहा: रुद्रमाला के मणकों के बुद्धि में।) क्यों? उसमें भी, रुद्रमाला में भी, जो असल सूर्यवंशी होंगे उनकी बुद्धि में विरोधाभास के संकल्प ज्यादा आयेंगे या जो और-2 धर्मों में कन्‍वर्ट होने वाले, और-2 धर्मों के छिलके वाले होंगे, उनकी बुद्धि में ज्यादा प्रश्न आवेंगे? और-2 धर्मों में जाने वाले होंगे तो प्रश्नों की झडी़ भी लगेगी ज्यादा। तो अन्तर स्पष्ट हो गया। जैसी दृष्टि वैसी सृष्टि बन जाती है। वो सुप्रीम सोल शिव, वो तो सबके लिए एक जैसा है लैकिन लेने वाले नम्बरवार पुरुषार्थ अनुसार है।
जिज्ञासु: तो बाबा, ये ईश्वरीय पढा़ई है ना। पढा़ई में प्रश्न नहीं होगा क्या?
बाबा: पढ़ने वाले एक हैं या अनेक हैं?
जिज्ञासु: अनेक है पढ़ने वाले।
बाबा: अगर ये नियम हो कि पढा़ई है तो प्रश्न पैदा जरूर होना चाहिए तो सबके प्रश्न पैदा होने चाहिए या कोई-2 के ही पैदा होने चाहिए? सबके होने चाहिए? पढा़ई है और ये नियम हो कि पढा़ई है तो प्रश्न सबके अन्दर आना चाहिए?
जिज्ञासु: भेड़-बकरियों के अन्दर प्रश्न क्या आता है?
बाबा: भेड़-बकरियों में प्रश्न नहीं आयेगा? भेड़ बकरिया में-4, ट्रां-2 करती रहेंगी क्योंकि समझती नहीं है। जो एक बार में समझे सो देवता, जो बार-2 कहने से समझे सो मनुष्य और बार-2 समझने और समझाने पर भी, और कहने पर भी न समझे सो गधा।
जिज्ञासु: दो रूप में प्रश्‍न का जवाब मिलता। कौनसा सही सोचकर बुध्दि चलती ना। बुद्धि का ताला आप ही तो खोला है।
बाबा: खुल गया?
जिज्ञासु: आप ही खोले ना बुध्दि का चाबी।
बाबा: खुल गया? अगर खुल गया तो प्रश्न खत्म। अर्जुन ने प्रश्न कब तक किये? जब तक अर्जुन की बुद्धि का ताला बन्द तब तक अर्जुन प्रश्न करता है और बुद्धि का ताला खुल गया तो प्रश्न खत्म। जो करोगे, जो कहोगे सो करेंगे। करिष्‍ये वचनम् तव।
जिज्ञासु: तो बाबा, जिनके मन में प्रश्न नहीं चलता, फिर ये सब सूर्यवंशी है?
बाबा: जिनके मन में प्रश्न नहीं उठता है तो निश्चय बुद्धि की निशानी - निश्चिंत। कोई भी प्रकार की उनको चिंता पैदा नहीं होगी और जो निश्चिंत होते हैं वो प्रश्नचित्त होते हैं या प्रसन्नचित्त होते हैं? प्रसन्नचित्त होंगे तो कोई प्रश्न ही पैदा नहीं होगा।
जिज्ञासु: नहीं होता बाबा। सीढी़ उतरने के बाद प्रश्न चालू होता है।
बाबा: तो उतर रहे होंगे। प्रश्न आता है माना सीढी़ उतर रहे हैं और प्रश्न नहीं आता है... करिष्‍ये वचनम् तव। पाना था...(सबने कहा: सो पा लिया।) जो ज्ञान पाना था सो पा लिया, अब हमें कुछ नहीं पाना।
जिज्ञासु: बकरियाँ ऐसे ही बोलते हैं।...
बाबा: बकरियाँ ऐसे बोलती है निश्व्य बुद्धि पूर्वक?
जिज्ञासु: हमको अन्दर निश्चय है। प्रश्न का समाधान पूछा है, हम तो छोटे बच्चे हैं। जैसे ब्रह्मा बेबी-बुद्धि है ना। हमारी बुद्धि बेबी है।
बाबा: अच्छा?
जिज्ञासु: इसलिए जवाब पूछ रहे हैं। जवाब पूछना गलत है क्या?
बाबा: जवाब पूछा नहीं जाता। प्रश्न पूछा जाता है।
जिज्ञासु: वो प्रश्न नहीं। प्रश्‍न पूछना दूसरे धर्म में जाना है क्या?
बाबा: नहीं-2। यहाँ तो कहते हैं जो ज्यादा से ज्यादा प्रश्न पूछने वाले इस सभा में होते हैं और ज्यादा से ज्यादा धर्मों में कन्‍वर्ट होने वाले होते हैं उनको भी कन्‍वर्ट करके सूर्यवंशी बनाके छोड़ना है। क्या? सूर्यवंशी बनाके छोड़ना है। ऐसे नहीं हो सकता कि वो और धर्म में कन्‍वर्ट हो करके चले जाए और उनके जन्म कम हो जाये। नहीं। जो भी बीज है चाहे मोटा छिलका चढा़ हुआ हो, चाहे छिलकों की ज्यादा परतें चढी़ हुई हो लेकिन उनको, बीजों को 84 जन्म जरूर लेना है। इस लिस्ट में लाना है। इसलिए ये तो सवाल ही नहीं होता कि प्रश्न पूछना बन्द कर दो।

यहाँ प्रश्नोत्तर की झडी़ नहीं लगेगी, काट और प्रत्यकाट, सवाल और जवाब नहीं होगा, प्रहार और आहार नहीं होगा तो फिर वहाँ युद्ध कैसे होंगे? यहाँ सूक्ष्म में युद्ध होता है और वहाँ स्थूल में युद्ध होता है। यहाँ है सूक्ष्म ज्ञान की मार-काट और वहाँ होगी तीर तलवारों की मार-काट। यहाँ का स्वदर्शन चक्र है - असुरों के गले काटता है। प्रश्न काहे में से निकलते हैं? गले में से प्रश्न निकलते हैं और जितना देहभान होगा उतना ज्यादा प्रश्न निकलेंगे और प्रश्नचित्त पैदा करने वाली प्रवेश करने वाली आत्मायें होती है। जो आत्मिक स्थिति नहीं धारण कर पाते उनमें दूसरी आत्माओं का प्रवेश होता है। जो पक्की आत्मिक स्थिति वाली सूर्यवंशी आत्मायें हैं उनमें कोई प्रश्न पैदा ही नहीं होगा। क्योंकि वो जन्म-जन्मांतर एक को फ़ॉलो करने वाले बने हैं।

जिज्ञासु: मुन्डि (सर) हिलाने वाले हैं।
बाबा: मुन्डि जो हिलाने वाले होते है वो भी भगवान को अपना भगवान मानने वाले होते है ना? होते हैं ना भक्तिमार्ग में? तो वो शूटिंग कहाँ होती है? वो भी असली शूटिंग कहाँ होती है? यहीं ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में। कोई पक्के भक्त होते हैं। वो कभी कंवर्ट नहीं होते हैं।
जिज्ञासु: हम कच्चे भक्त है क्या बाबा?
बाबा: जरूर कन्‍वर्ट होंगे।
जिज्ञासु: आप छोडेंगे नहीं ना मुझे?
बाबा: बिल्कुल नहीं। क्‍यों छोड़ने का क्या सवाल?
जिज्ञासु: मैं दूसरे धर्म में गया तो आप छोडेंगे क्या?
बाबा: जो भक्त होते हैं वो अनेक प्रकार के भक्त होते हैं या एक प्रकार के भक्त होते हैं? नौधा भक्ति कही जाती है। तो धर्म भी नौ प्रकार के हैं।
जिज्ञासु: आगे चलके प्रश्न पूछना बन्द करेंगे, हम भी आत्मिक स्‍वरूप में रहेंगे। बाबा: क्यों बन्द करेंगे? अन्दर अगर कचडा़ भरा हुआ हो और कचडे़ को बाहर न निकाला जाए तो पेट फटेगा या रह जायेगा? पेट फट जायेगा।
जिज्ञासु: आत्मिक स्थिति में कचडा़ भी बाहर निकाल देंगे। आत्मिक स्थिति में कचड़ा को बाहर निकालना चाहिए नहीं निकालना चाहिए?
बाबा: आत्मिक स्थिति बनती ही तब है जब हम भगवान बाप की एक्युरेट मत पर चले। अगर औरों-2 की सुनते रहते हैं तो देहभान बढे़गा या घटेगा? बढे़गा।
जिज्ञासु: मन का सुन रहे हैं, औरों का तो नहीं सुन रहे हैं।
बाबा: मनमत पर चल रहे है?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं, नहीं। और किस‍की बात सुनते? कौन है आपसे बढ़कर? माई का लाल कौन है आपसे बढ़कर?
बाबा: ये तो जब प्रत्यक्ष होते हैं पार्ट और जब माला में नम्बर प्रत्यक्ष होते हैं तब ही सबका पता चलता है कि 63 जन्मों में कौन कितने कन्‍वर्ट हो करके रहे हैं और कौन कितने एक के ऊपर आस्था रख करके चले हैं? आदि से अंत तक राम और कृष्ण को फॉलो करने वाले बहुत थोडे़ हैं। बाकि सारे ही देवतायें कन्‍वर्ट होने वाले हैं। कन्‍वर्ट होने वालों की लिस्ट ज्यादा है या अपने धर्म पर पक्के होने वालों की लिस्ट ज्यादा है?
जिज्ञासु: कन्वर्ट होना फायदा है घाटा है?
बाबा: स्वधर्मे निधनं श्रेयः परधर्मो भयावह।

Disc.CD No.471, dated 27.12.07 at Hyderabad

Student: Baba he wants to say that the corporeal one becomes a wife in [some births from among] 63 births, but Shiv is not present in 63 births. Relationships are to be established in the Confluence Age; so he is taking it on the account of 63 births.
Baba: The relationships that are established here are with Shiv.....will the souls in whose intellect it is seated that they have established relationship with Shiv, become pure for many births or will they become impure? They will become pure, will they not? And will the one who is included in the list of those who become purest establish relationship with others? For example the head of the Vijaymala (the rosary of victory), she establishes relationship with the ever pure one and keeps it firm. She does not indulge in adultery through vision, vibrations or words with others. So, the relationship she establishes for many births, the relationship that she establishes with one, will it be established in the form of a king or in the form of a queen? It will be established in the form of a queen. He (Narayan) is Bhagwan and she is a bhakt (devotee) for many births. (It is said in the Murlis that) “You all are devotees, you all are Sitas.” That is a vision of those who remain pure and what kind of a vision do those who are kings of India have? They have a vicious vision and no one knows in which religions are they going to and fall.
Student: So, Baba will the head of Vijaymala have a relationship with you alone for 63 births? It will not be, will it?
Baba: Will the shooting of the one who is giving the freedom to all the souls to establish all the relationships with him take place with one or with many? (Someone said: with one). No? It is applicable to the one in whom He enters. The above one (the Supreme Soul) does not take anything. He neither takes nor gives. It is about the connection of the intellect of the ones with whom the relationships are established, with that ever pure. So, the children who establish all the relationships with the One include the beads of the rosary of Rudra (Rudramala) as well as the beads of the rosary of victory. Will there be queue of questions more in the intellect of the beads of the Rudramala or in the intellect of the beads of the Vijaymala? (Someone said: in the intellect of the beads of the Rudramala). Why? Even among them, even in the Rudramala, will opposite thoughts emerge more in the intellect of the true Suryavanshis (of the Sun dynasty) or will more questions emerge in the intellect of those who are going to convert to other religions, those with a peel of other religions? If they are the ones who are going to fall in other religions, the queue of questions arising will also be more. So, the difference became clear. As is the vision, so the world becomes. The Supreme Soul Shiv treats everyone equally, but the takers are number wise, as per their purusharth (special effort for the soul).
Student: So Baba, this is a Godly study, isn’t it? Will there not be questions in the study?
Baba: Is there one student or are there many?
Student: There are many students.
Baba: If there is a rule that “if it is a study, questions should definitely arise”, should questions arise in [the intellect of] everyone or should questions arise [in the intellect of] only few? Should questions arise [in the intellect of] everyone? It is a study and there is a rule that if it is a study, questions should arise [in the intellect of] everyone?
Student: What questions will emerge in [the intellect of] sheep and goats?
Baba: Will questions not arise in [the intellect of] sheep and goats? Sheep and goats will keep crying ‘mei, mei’, ‘tra, tra’ (bleating) because they do not understand. The one who understands in one go is a deity; the one who understands on being told repeatedly is a human being and the one who does not understand even on understanding and being explained and said repeatedly is a donkey.
Student: We find the answers to our questions in 2 forms; the intellect works thinking ‘which one is right’, does it not? You yourself have unlocked the lock of the intellect.
Baba: Has it opened?
Student: You yourself opened the lock of the intellect.
Baba: Has it opened? If it has opened, the questions will end. Until when did Arjun raise questions? Until Arjun’s intellect is locked, he raises questions and when his intellect is unlocked, the questions end. [He says] I shall do whatever you do, whatever you say. Karishye vachanam tav (I shall do whatever you say).
Student: So Baba, the ones in whose intellect questions do not arise are all Suryavanshis?
Baba: If questions do not arise in someone’s intellect; the indication of the one with a faithful intellect is [he will be] carefree (nishchint). He will not have any kind of worries. And are the ones who are carefree, is their mind full of questions or are they joyful? They are joyful. So, questions will not arise in their mind at all.
Student: Baba, it does not happen so. Questions emerge when we come down the Ladder.
Baba: So, you must be coming down [the Ladder]. If questions emerge, it means that you are climbing down the Ladder and if questions do not emerge…..karishye vachanam tav. Whatever we wanted….. (Everyone said: we have gained it.) We have obtained whatever knowledge we had to obtain. Now we do not have to achieve anything.
Student: Goats speak like this only….....
Baba: Do the goats speak like this with a faithful intellect?
Student: I have faith within. I have just asked for the solution to my question. We are small children. Just as Brahma has a baby-like intellect, our intellect is also baby-like.
Baba: Is it really?
Student: This is why I am asking answers. Is it wrong to ask answers?
Baba: Answers are not asked. Questions are asked.
Student: It is not a question. Do I want to go into another religion by asking questions?
Baba: No, no. Here, it is said that those who ask maximum questions in this gathering and those who convert into maximum number of religions, they too should be converted [back] and made Suryavanshis. What? They have to be made Suryavanshis. It cannot be possible that they convert to other religions and their number of births decrease. No. All the seeds, whether they are covered by a thick peel or are covered by more layers of peels, but they, those seeds have certainly to take 84 births. They have to be brought to this list. This is why; this point does not arise at all that you should stop asking questions.

If there is no queue of questions here, if there is no rejection and acceptance, if there are no questions and answers, if there is no attack and counter-attack here, how will wars take place there (in the broad drama)? Here, the war takes place in a subtle form and there it takes place in a physical form. Here it is bloodshed of subtle knowledge and there it will be bloodshed through arrows and swords. The swadarshan chakra here cuts the throats of demons. From where do the questions emerge? Questions emerge from the throat and the more there is body consciousness, the more questions will arise and it is the souls that enter, which makes the person have questions in his mind. Other souls enter in the ones who are unable to imbibe soul conscious stage. No questions will emerge at all in the minds of those who are Suryavanshi souls with firm soul conscious stage because they have been the followers of one in many births.

Student: They are the one who shake their heads.
Baba: Those who shake their heads also consider God as their God, don’t they? Such ones are there in the path of Bhakti (devotion), aren’t there? So, where does that shooting take place? Where does that true shooting also take place? Here, in the world of Brahmins itself. There are some firm devotees; they never convert.
Student: Baba, are we weak devotees?
Baba: You will certainly convert.
Student: You will not leave me, will you?
Baba: Not at all. Where is the question of leaving?
Student: If I go to other religion, will you leave me?
Baba: Are there different kind of devotees or are they of one kind? Bhakti is said to be of nine kinds. So, religions are also of nine kinds.
Student: I will stop asking questions in future, I too will remain in the soul conscious stage.
Baba: Why will you stop [questioning]? If there is garbage inside and if the garbage is not removed, then will the stomach burst or remain intact? The stomach will burst.
Student: We will also remove the garbage in the soul conscious stage. Should we remove the garbage by remaining in the soul conscious stage or not?
Baba: The soul conscious stage is formed only when we follow the accurate directions of God the Father. If we keep listening to others, will the body consciousness increase or decrease? It will increase.
Student: I am listening to my mind; I am not listening to others.
Baba: Are you following your own opinion?
Student: No, no. Whom else do I listen to? Who is greater than you? Who is the son of a mother greater than you?
Baba: When the parts are revealed and when the numbers in the rosary are revealed, only then we come to know about everyone as to how long has one been converted in 63 births and who has maintained faith on one and followed to what extent? There are very few who have followed Ram and Krishna from the beginning to the end. All the other deities convert. Is the list of those who convert big or is the list of those who remain steadfast in their religion big?
Student: Is it beneficial or harmful to convert?
Baba: Swadharme nidhanam shreyah pardharmo bhayavah (It is better to die in one’s own religion; others’ religion is fearful).
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 12 Apr 2010

वार्तालाप नं.471, हैदराबाद, दिनांक 27.12.07

समयः 53.22-55.00
जिज्ञासुः 100 कंगूरें खाए बिल्ली हज को चली माना?

बाबा: हाँ।100-100 चूहें खाए बिलैया हज को चली। बिल्ली जो है उसके लिए कहावत बनाई है कि 100 चूहें खा लिए, 100 चूहों की हत्या कर ली और वो हत्या करने के बाद वो माया बिल्ली भगवान के पास, भगवान से मिलने के लिए हज को जा रही है। ये कहावत कहाँ से पड़ती है? ब्राह्मणों की संगमयुगी दुनिया में ये कहावतें सिद्ध होती है। जो माला के 100 मणके हैं उनको माया अपने कंट्रोल में कर लेती है, उनकी हत्या कर देती है या 108 के मणकों में जो 8 मणके हैं उनकी हत्या कर पाती है? 100 की हत्या कर देती है। वो 100 चूहें हैं जिनके ऊपर देहअभिमानी, साहबजादे गणेशजी सवारी करते हैं। गणेशजी की सवारी किसके ऊपर दिखाते हैं? चूहों के ऊपर।
जिज्ञासु: तो मैं बड़ा चूहा हूँ बाबा।
बाबा: ज्यादा मांस होगा तो कहेंगे बड़ा चूहा और सीकिया पहलवान होगा तो कहेंगे छोटा चूहा।

समयः 55.25-57.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, एक जन्म स्त्री और एक जन्म पुरुष के होते है तो जब छोटी माँ पुरुष जन्म लेती है तब क्या वो एक ही शादी करती है या ढेर सारी रानियाँ रखती है।
बाबा: उसके अन्दर संस्कार व्यभिचार के हैं या अव्यभिचार के संस्कार है? ( किसी ने कहा: अव्यभिचार के।) तो जिसके अन्दर संगमयुग में अव्यभिचार के संस्कार पडे़ हैं वो चाहे स्त्री का जन्म ले और चाहे पुरुष का जन्म ले, वो अव्यभिचारी राजा दुर्गादास का पार्ट बजाएगा या व्यभिचारी राजा का पार्ट बजाएगा? अव्यभिचारी पार्ट ही बजाएगा। अच्छा राजा बनेगा और राजा बनने की तो बात ही नहीं, विजयमाला में। विजयमाला के मणके जन्म-जन्मांतर रानी बनने के स्वभाव वाले हैं, आधीन होकरके रहने वाले स्वभाव वाले हैं या राजा बनने के स्वाधीन स्वभाव वाले हैं? आधीन तो रहना है लेकिन ऊँच ते ऊँच के आधीन रहना है, ऐसे स्वभाव वाले हैं। तो राजा बनने की तो बात ही नहीं है। राजाओं को ज्यादा कष्ट होता है द्वापर, कलियुग द्वैतवादी दुनिया में या रानियों को ज्यादा कष्ट होता है? राजाओं को ज्यादा मार-काट झेलनी पड़ती है।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, रानियों को ज्यादा कष्ट भी होता है ना?
बाबा: नहीं होता है।
जिज्ञासु: 9 महीने बच्चे को पालती है, वो इतना परेशान होती है।
बाबा: वो एक बात अलग। वो तो कोई भी ऐसा नहीं होता है जिसको 9 महीने ना पालना पडे़; चाहे रुद्रमाला का मणका हो और चाहे विजयमाला का मणका हो।

समयः 57.13-58.50
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, कहते हैं रुद्रमाला के मणके अपनी बुद्धि लगाए बिना नहीं रह सकते?

बाबा: बुद्धिमान बाप के बुद्धिमान बच्चे हैं। तो बुद्धिमान बाप के बच्चे जो हैं, ये तो हो सकता है कि अनेकों की बुद्धियों से प्रभावित हो करके व्यभिचारी बुद्धि वाले बन जाए लेकिन ये नहीं हो सकता कि वो बुद्धि को चलाए ही नहीं। बुद्धिमान बाप के बच्चे हैं तो बुद्धि तो जरूर चलायेंगे। कोई एक से बुद्धि का वरदान लेने वाले हैं और कोई अनेकों से बुद्धि का वरदान लेने वाले हैं। जो एक से बुद्धि का वरदान लेने वाले हैं उनकी पहचान क्या होगी? उनकी पहचान होगी, वो एक से ही सुनेंगे। क्या? ब्राह्मणों की दुनिया में वो ब्राह्मण जो एक से ही वरदान लेने वाले हैं, और-2 धर्मों में कन्‍वर्ट होने वाले नहीं है, वो सारे ब्राह्मण जीवन में बुद्धि का पाँव एक नाव में रखेंगे। अनिश्चय बुद्धि होकर औरों-2 से ज्ञान नहीं सुनेंगे। क़्योंकि मुरली में बोला है, अगर औरों-2 से भी सुनकरके धारण किया तो व्यभिचारी ज्ञान हो जावेगा। व्यभिचारी ज्ञान होगा तो प्राप्ति भी व्यभिचारी हो जावेगी।

समयः 58.52-59.50
जिज्ञासुः मुरली का एक भी पॉईंट मिस नहीं करना, हर पॉईंट पर विचार सागर मंथन करना है। कोई टेप रिकॉडर कैसेट से, वी.सी.डी से कोई प्रश्न का हल नहीं निकलता। बाप साकार में आता है, प्रैक़्टिकल में आता है तो पूछ के वेरिफाय कर लेना चाहिए, क्लियर कर लेना चहिए। बाबा: ठीक है। जिज्ञासु: तो प्रश्न तो पैदा होता ही है।

बाबा: सबको नहीं प्रश्न पैदा होता है।
जिज्ञासु: विचार सागर मंथन करे तो...
बाबा: अपनी बात को सबके ऊपर लागू नहीं कर देना चाहिए। हाँ, ये कहेंगे कि कोई प्रश्नचित्त ज्यादा बनते हैं और कोई प्रसन्नचित्त ज्यादा बनते हैं। प्रश्नचित्त ज्यादा बनते हैं इससे साबित होता है कि ब्राह्मणों की संगमयुगी दुनिया में रहकरके जब उन्होंने पार्ट बजाया है तो अनेकों-2 की बातें भी सुनी है। एक की बात सुनकरके संतुष्ट नहीं हुए।

समयः 59.53 -01.02.08
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, रामायण में दिखाते हैं राम ने अपनी सीता को अग्निदेव के पास रखा और सोने की सीता को रावण ने चुरा लिया और अभी जो छोटी माता है जो नायरोबी में है, भले केनिया या अफ्रीका कहो वहाँ जो लक्ष्मी, छोटी माँ है उनको सोने की कहेंगे या असली कहेंगे? मतलब जब तक अपने नारायण के साथ है...

बाबा: सोना और पावक रंग तो एक ही जैसा होता है लगभग। सोना जड़त्वमय होता है। सोना क्या है? जड़ तत्व है ना? और अग्नि? अग्नि जड़त्वमई होते हुए भी चैतन्य दिखाई देती है। है दोनों ही सीतायें। एक सीता योगाग्नि रूपी पावक में निवास करती है। क्या? तुम पावक में करो निवासा, तब लगी करौ निशाचर नाशा। असली सीता को कहा तुम योगाग्नि में निवास करो। क्योंकि तुमने दिव्य दृष्टि से पहचान लिया है कि भगवान का असली रूप ये हैं, ज्ञान की दृष्टि से नहीं पहचाना भले। तो तुम पावक में करो निवासा; पावक माना? ज्ञानाग्नि, योगाग्नि। योग की अग्नि में निवास करो और जो नम्बर 2 की सीता है उसको रावण ले जाता है। नहीं तो सच्ची सीता के तन को रावण हाथ भी नहीं लगा सकता।

Disc.CD No.471, dated 27.12.07 at Hyderabad

Time: 53.22-55.00
Student: What is meant by ‘the female cat went for Haj (pilgrimage to Mecca) after eating 100 rats’?

Baba: Yes. The female cat went for Haj pilgrimage after eating 100 rats. There is a saying about the female cat that after she ate 100 rats, after having killed 100 rats; the Maya cat is going to God, to meet God, going for Haj pilgrimage. When does this saying emerge? These sayings are proved in the Confluence Age world of Brahmins. Does Maya take the 100 beads of the rosary under her control, does she kill them or is she able to kill the 8 beads among the 108 beads? She kills the 100 beads. They are the 100 rats on whom the body conscious, son Ganeshji rides. What is Ganeshji shown to ride upon? On rats.
Student: So, I am a big rat Baba.
Baba: If there is more meat, it will be said to be a big rat and if it is frail and weak wrestler, it will be said to be a small rat.

Time: 55.25-57.10
Student: Baba, one birth is in the form of a female and one birth as a male, so, when the junior mother (choti ma) takes birth as a male, does she make only one marriage or does she keep many queens?

Baba: Does she have sanskars of adultery or purity? (Someone said: of purity.) So, the one in whom the sanskars of purity are recorded in the Confluence Age, whether she takes a female birth or a male birth, will she play the part of an unadulterous King Durgadas or will she play the part of an adulterous king? She will indeed play an unadulterous part. He/she will become a good king; however, there is no question of becoming kings [for the beads] in the Vijaymala (the rosary of victory) at all. Do the beads of the Vijaymala have the nature of becoming queens for many births, do they have the nature of living as subordinates or do they have the independent nature of becoming kings? They do have to remain subordinates, but they have the nature of remaining subordinates to the highest on high. So, there is no question of becoming kings at all. Do the kings face more difficulties in the dualistic world of the Copper Age and the Iron Age or do the queens face more difficulties? The kings have to face more bloodshed.
Student: Baba, the queens also face more difficulties, don’t they?

Baba: No, they don’t.
Student: They bear the fetus for 9 months; they face so many problems.
Baba: That is a different thing. There is nobody who does not have to bear [the child] for 9 months; whether it is the bead of the Rudramala (rosary of Rudra) or the bead of the Vijaymala.

Time: 57.13-58.50
Student: Baba, it is said that the beads of the Rudramala cannot avoid using their brains?

Baba: They are intelligent children of the intelligent Father. So, as regards the children of the intelligent Father, it is possible that they are influenced by the intellects of many and develop an adulterous intellect, but it is not possible that they do not use their intellect at all. If they are children of the intelligent Father, they will certainly use their intellect. Some obtain the boon of intellect from one and some obtain the boon of intellect from many. What will be the indication of those who obtain the boon of intellect from one? Their indication is that they will listen only from one. What? In the world of Brahmins, the Brahmins who obtain the boon [of intellect] from only one, those who are not going to convert to other religions, will place their leg of intellect only in one boat in the entire Brahmin life. They will not develop a doubtful intellect and listen to knowledge from others because it has been said in Murli, even if you listen from others and inculcate it (the knowledge), it will become an adulterous knowledge. If the knowledge becomes adulterous, the attainments obtained will also become adulterous.

Time: 58.52-59.50
Student: We should not miss even a single point of Murli; we have to think and churn on every point. No solution is obtained from tape recorder cassettes, VCDs. When the Father comes in corporeal form in practical, you should ask and verify, you should clear [the doubts].

Baba: It is correct.
Student: So, questions do arise.
Baba: Questions do not arise in the minds of everyone.
Student: If we think and churn…....
Baba: You should not apply your case to everyone. Yes, it can be said that questions arise more in the minds of some (prashnachitt) and some remain more joyful (prasanchitt). If more questions arise in someone’s mind, it proves that when they played a part while living in the Confluence Age world of Brahmins, they have also listened from many. They did not feel contended on listening from one.

Time: 59.53-01.02.08
Student: Baba, it is shown in Ramayan that Ram kept his Sita in the custody of the deity of fire (agnidev) and the golden Sita was abducted by Ravan. And the present junior mother, who is in Nairobi, call it Kenya or Africa; Lakshmi, the junior mother who is living there; will she be called the golden one or the real one? Meaning up until she is with her Narayan…....

Baba: The colour of gold and fire is almost the same. Gold is inert. What is gold? It is an inert element, isn’t it? And what about fire? Despite being inert, fire appears to be living. Both are indeed Sitas. One Sita resides in the fire in the form of Yoga. What? [Ram said to Sita] Tum pavak mein karo nivasa, tab lagi karau nishachar nasha (You remain in fire [of Yoga] until I kill the demons). The true Sita was asked to live in the fire of Yoga because you have recognized through the divine vision, this is the true form of God, although you have not recognized through the eyes of knowledge. So, you reside in fire; what does ‘fire’ mean? [It means] the fire of knowledge, the fire of Yoga. [You] live in the fire of Yoga and Ravan takes away the number two Sita. Otherwise, Ravan cannot even touch the body of the true Sita.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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Re: Q&A: PBK Murli discussions

Post by arjun » 14 Apr 2010

वार्तालाप नं.471, हैदराबाद, दिनांक 27.12.07

समयः 01.02.10 -01.04.10
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, नेक्स्ट टू गॉड इस शंकर या नेक्स्ट टू गॉड इस ... ।

बाबा:... कृष्ण, प्रजापिता या नारायण।
जिज्ञासु: फिर शंकर की आत्मा को माया का आवरण लगता है, ऐसा मुरली में बोला है।
बाबा: जिसको माया का आवरण लगा हुआ होगा उसको बाप को याद करने की दरकार है या जिसको आवरण ही नहीं होगा उसको बाप को याद करने की दरकार है?
जिज्ञासु: जिसको आवरण नहीं होगा तो...
बाबा: दरकार ही नहीं। और शंकर को हमेशा याद में बैठा हुआ दिखाया जाता है या नहीं दिखाया जाता है? याद में बैठा है माना... शंकर का अर्थ ही है मिक्स। क्या? उसमें जो सदैव सत है, सदा शिव है वो भी प्रवेश है। जो सदा असत है; क्या? पहले जन्म से ही असत उसमें प्रवेश हो जाता है। कृष्ण का जन्म लिया, कृष्ण वाली आत्मा के अन्दर दृष्टि की पावर से सृष्टि को जन्म देने की पावर है या वायब्रेशन की पावर है? तो ये (सर के उपर) है वायब्रेशन जहाँ से निकलता है वायब्रेशन और दृष्टि है नीचे। ज्यादा ऊँची पावर वृत्ति है, वायब्रेशन है या दृष्टि है? वायब्रेशन ऊँचा है। तो कृष्ण की आत्मा थोडी़ नीची स्टेज वाली है और कृष्ण को जन्म देने वाला ऊँच ते ऊँच है। इसलिए अंतर पड़ जाता है।

समयः 01.04.11 -01.10.56
जिज्ञासुः बाबा, महाभारत में दिखाते है कि अर्जुन अपनी 18 अक्षोणी सेना को देखकर अपने पितामाहा और गुरुओं को, भाईयों को देख कर कहा, मैं इन सब को मारकर मुझे राज्य नहीं चाहिए, मुझे राजाई नहीं चाहिए। ये पार्ट 36–37 की बात है या दुबारा जन्म लेकर आता है राम वाले व्यक्तित्व 30 नवम्बर 1969 में उस समय की बात है?...

बाबा: ज्ञान कब मिलता है? 76 में राम बाप से ज्ञान मिलता है प्रैक़्टिकल में या 36 में पूरा ज्ञान मिलता है? अधूरा ज्ञान कब कहेंगे और पूरा ज्ञान कब कहेंगे?
जिज्ञासु: 36 में तो मुरली चलाया ही नहीं।
बाबा: 36 में भी मुरली चलाते थे। पियु की वाणी प्रसिद्ध है। 36 में भी प्रवेश किया था, गीता के अर्थ बैठ करते थे। जिस गीता की 108 टीकायें निकल चुकी है और हर एक टीका ने हर एक धर्म के फॉलोवर ने उस गीता के अपने तरीके से अर्थ करके दिखा दिए। वो अर्थ करने वाले सब झूठे और यहाँ तो सच्चा है। तो जो सच्चा है वो गीता के अर्थ अपने प्रकार के सच्चे करके नहीं समझाय सकता? जिस गीता की व्याख्या झूठे लोगों ने 108 प्रकार से अपने तरीके से करके दिखा दी उस गीता की व्याख्या भगवान आवेगा तो अपने तरीके से करके नहीं दिखा सकता? यज्ञ के आदि में भी क्या सुनाते थे? वो ही गीता के श्लोक सुनाते थे और उनका अर्थ बैठ समझाते थे। लेकिन उस समय पूरा ज्ञान नहीं था इसलिए छोड़ के चले गए और अभी? अभी तो पूरा ज्ञान है।

आदि में भी गीता के अर्थ सुनाते थे तो अंत में भी उसी गीता के अर्थ फिर सुनावेंगे। लेकिन अंतर क्या पड़ जावेगा? अंतर एक बात का पडे़गा उस समय भी बुद्धियों में बैठा हुआ था गीता का भगवान कृष्ण और जो फ़ॉलो करने वाले थे ज्यादातर बचे थे, वो सारे ही कृष्ण के फॉलोवर थे और अब? अभी ये बात प्रत्यक्ष होने वाली है कि गीता का भगवान साकार में कृष्ण नहीं, गीता का भगवान निराकारी स्टेज वाला, देह को धारण न करने वाला, देहधारी नहीं है। निराधार पुरुषार्थ करने वाला है। देह में आसक्त होने वाला नहीं है। ये अंतर पड़ जायेगा। सिर्फ एक बात का अंतर। भक्तिमार्ग में गीता का भगवान कौन? कौन बुद्धि में आता था? और अभी गीता का भगवान कौन? वो बुद्धि में आयेगा। बाकी गीता सारी वही रहेगी।

जिज्ञासु: तो बाबा, विजयमाला ज्ञान लेने के बाद गीता का भगवान शिव शंकर भोलेनाथ प्रत्यक्ष होगा या नहीं होगा?
बाबा: बिना ज्ञान के गति होती है क्या? बिना ज्ञान के बुद्धि गतिमान बनेगी?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं बनेगी।
बाबा: फिर? भले कितने भी साक्षात्कार होते रहे। ब्रह्मा को साक्षात्कार हो गए क्या बुद्धि गतिमान बनी? ऐसे ही विजयमाला की हेड को कितने ही साक्षात्कार होते रहे, खुशी आवेगी लेकिन सदाकाल की वो खुशी ज्ञान से ही आवेगी।
जिज्ञासु: बाबा, गीता का भगवान शिव शंकर भोलेनाथ कौनसे इयर से हमें चालू करना है?
बाबा: जब से प्रत्यक्षता हो जाए। जब से चन्द्रमाँ सम्पूर्ण हो जाए। चन्द्रमाँ सम्पूर्ण होगा, पूर्णिमा की रात्री होगी, सम्पूर्ण चन्द्रमाँ अस्त होगा और सूर्य उदय होगा। एक तरफ वो अस्त होगा और दूसरी तरफ वो उदय होगा।
जिज्ञासु: जब तक चन्द्रमाँ बीजरूप स्टेज धारण नहीं करता तब तक गीता का भगवान शिव शंकर भोलेनाथ प्रत्यक्ष होगा या नहीं होगा?
बाबा: वो बाप बेवकूफ है कि बच्चे का कल्याण किए बगैर अपना कल्याण कर ले। वो बाप बाप नहीं है कि बच्चा काम की अग्नि में जलता रहे और अपने को सेफ कर ले। कोई ऐसा बाप होता है? असल में जो बाप होगा वो बच्चा आग लगे हुए घर में जल रहा है और खुद निकलकरके भाग जाए। वो असली बाप है क्या?
जिज्ञासु: तो बाबा सन शोज़ फादर बोले ना?
बाबा: हाँ जी।
जिज्ञासु: फादर खुद को तो प्रत्यक्ष नहीं करता। सन शोज़ फादर है ना?
बाबा: हाँ है। आगे बोलो ना।
जिज्ञासु: सन शोज़ फादर है ना? बाबा: हाँ जी है। जिज्ञासु: खुद को शिवोऽहम् करे तो हिरण्यकश्यप होगा ना, खुद को भगवान कहने से?
बाबा: कहता है क्या? भगवान आएगा तो कहेगा मैं भगवान हूँ? कहेगा?
जिज्ञासु: नहीं कहेगा। बाप पहले बच्चों को प्रत्यक्ष करेगा फिर बच्चे बाप को प्रत्यक्ष करेंगे। कौनसा पहले...?
बाबा: जो ज्यादा ताकतवर होगा सो पहले करेगा।
जिज्ञासु: ताकत तो बाप है।
बाबा: हाँ तो बाप अगर सर्वशक्तिवान है, ज्यादा पावरफुल है तो पहले बच्चों को प्रत्यक्ष करेगा या बच्चे बाप को प्रत्यक्ष कर लेंगे?
जिज्ञासु: जो पावरफुल है वो पहले करेगा।
बाबा: हाँ तो अभी 70 साल हो गए, बच्चे अगर पावरफुल होते तो अभी तक 70 सालों में कुछ किया होता ना? कुछ कर पाए क्या? नहीं कर पाए।

Disc.CD No.471, dated 27.12.07 at Hyderabad

Time: 01.02.10-01.04.10
Student: Baba, next to God is Shankar or next to God is….

Baba: ...Krishna, Prajapita or Narayan.
Student: Then it has been said in Murli that Shankar’s soul is covered by Maya.
Baba: Is there the need to remember the Father for the one who is covered by Maya or is there the need to remember the Father for the one who is not at all covered [by Maya]?
Student: The one who is covered ...
Baba: There is no need at all [to remember]. And is Shankar always shown to be sitting in remembrance or is he not shown? He is sitting in remembrance means….the very meaning of Shankar is ‘mix’. What? The one who is always truth, always Shiv (i.e. benevolent) is also present in him. The one who is always false; what? Untruth enters in him since the first birth itself. Krishna was born; does the soul of Krishna have the power to procreate through the power of vision or does it have the power of vibrations? This (top of the head) is the place from where the vibrations originate and vision (i.e. eyes) is below. Is the power of vibrations or [that of] vision higher? Vibrations are higher. So, the soul of Krishna is of a slightly lower stage and the one who gives birth to Krishna is the highest on high. That is why a difference appears.

Time: 01.04.11-01.10.56
Student: Baba, it is shown in Mahabharata that Arjun looked at the 18 akshoni army, his great-great-grandfather (Bhishma), the gurus and brothers and said, I don’t want a kingdom that is achieved by killing all these people; I do not want kingship. Is this part related to the period of [19]36-37 or is it about the period when the personality of Ram is reborn and re-enters [the Yagya] on 30th November, 1969?

Baba: When is knowledge received? Is knowledge received from the Father Ram in [19]76 in practical or is the complete knowledge received in [19]36? When will it be said to be an incomplete knowledge and when will it be called a complete knowledge?
Student: Murli was not narrated at all in [19]36.
Baba: Murli was narrated in [19]36 also. Piu’s Vani is famous. Shiv had entered in [19]36 as well; He used to explain the meanings of the Gita, whose 108 commentaries have emerged and in every commentary, followers of every religion have interpreted the Gita in their own way. All those interpreters are false and here it is the true one. So, can’t the one who is true make out the true meanings of the Gita and explain? The Gita which has been interpreted by false persons in 108 ways, in their own ways; when God comes can’t He interpret that Gita in His own way? What used to be narrated in the beginning of the Yagya as well? The same shlokas (verses) of the Gita used to be narrated and their meanings used to be explained. But there wasn’t complete knowledge at that time; this is why they left [the Yagya] and now? Now there is complete knowledge.

In the beginning, Gita’s meanings used to be narrated as well as in the end; the meaning of the same Gita will again be narrated. But what will be the difference? The difference will be of one thing; even at that time it was in the intellects [of people] that God of the Gita is Krishna and most of the followers who were left, they all were the followers of Krishna and now? Now it is going to be revealed that God of the Gita is not Krishna in the corporeal form but God of the Gita is the one who has an incorporeal stage, the one who does not take a body , the one who is not a bodily being. He is the one who does purusharth (special effort for the soul) without any support. He does not become attached to a body. This will be the difference, a difference of just one thing. Who is God of the Gita in the path of Bhakti (devotion)? Who used to come to the intellect? And who is the God of the Gita now; that will come to the intellect. And as for the rest, the Gita will remain the same.

Student: So, Baba, will God of the Gita [i.e.] Shiv Shankar Bholenath (Shiv Shankar, the lord of the innocent ones) be revealed or not after the Vijaymala obtains the knowledge?
Baba: Is salvation achieved without knowledge? Will the intellect become dynamic without knowledge?
Student: It will not.
Baba: Then? However much visions they may continue to have. Brahma had visions; did his intellect become dynamic? Similarly, the head of the Vijaymala had so many visions; she will experience happiness, but the permanent happiness will be achieved only through knowledge.
Student: Baba, since which year should we calculate Shiv Shankar Bholenath as God of the Gita?
Baba: Since the revelation has taken place. Since the Moon has become complete. When the Moon becomes complete, when it is full moon night, when the full Moon sets and the Sun rises. On one side it (i.e. the Moon) will set and on the other side it (i.e. the Sun) will rise.
Student: Until, the Moon achieves the seed-form stage, will God of the Gita Shiv Shankar Bholenath be revealed or not?
Baba: The Father who reaps benefits for himself without benefiting the child is a fool. That Father who makes himself safe while the child is burning in the fire of lust is not fit to be called a Father. Is there any such Father? If a Father is a true Father; if his child is burning in the house that has caught fire and if he escapes from the house and runs away, is he a true Father?
Student: So, Baba has said that ‘son shows the Father’, hasn't he?
Baba: Yes.
Student: The Father does not reveal Himself. It is the son who shows the Father, isn’t it?
Baba: Yes. Speak further, will you not?
Student: The son shows the Father, doesn’t he?
Baba: Yes.
Student: If he calls himself Shivoham (I am Shiv), by calling himself God, he will be Hiranyakashyap (a villainous character mentioned on the scriptures), will he not?
Baba: Does he say? If God comes, will he say ‘I am God’? Will he say?
Student: He will not. The Father will reveal the children first and then the children will reveal the Father. Which takes place first…?
Baba: The one who is more powerful will do it first.
Student: The Father is power[ful].
Baba: Yes, so if the Father is almighty, if He is more powerful, will He reveal the children first or will the children reveal the Father first?
Student: The one who is powerful will do it first.
Baba: Yes. So, now 70 years have passed. Had the children been powerful, they would have done something in 70 years, wouldn’t they have? Were they able to do anything? They were not.
Note: The words in italics are Hindi words. Some words have been added in the brackets by the translator for better understanding of the translation.

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