Yagya history

To discuss the BK and PBK versions of the factual Yagya history from the beginning.
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arjun
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Post by arjun » 10 Mar 2007

Freefall wrote:Of course it is Shiv Baba through Baba Veerendra Dev Dixit, is it not?
Brother,

Most of the PBKs may believe in their minds that it is so, but we are not forcing anyone to accept our version. We are quoting the name of the corporeal medium only because we have been asked to do so. Otherwise, we quote such Murli points only to prompt souls to churn that the corporeal role of ShivBaba has not ended in 1969 and that ShivBaba is playing His part through some other personality.

We want to question the BKs because, they openly present ShivBaba to the world in different ways, sometimes as Brahma Baba (in past tense), sometimes as Brahma Baba (in present tense, through advertisements on Shivjayanti), sometimes as Gulzar Dadi (during the season of Avyakt BapDada) and mostly as a point of light in the Soul World. Now they have almost shunned all the above versions and are presenting only the Trimurti Dadis to the world. So, it is but natural for anyone to ask, which avatar of God is correct?

Although the PBK version as quoted by you may not be acceptable to most of the souls present in the world as on date, but at least we are sticking to one personality and not putting our intellect in many bodily beings.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by arjun » 11 Mar 2007

"In aankhon say jo kuch dekhtey ho vah Satyug may kuch bhi nahi rahega, jungle ho jayega. Abu thodey hee Satyug may hoga, darkaar hee nahee. Yah mandir aadi sab baad may Bhaktimarg may banengey. Kitnee oonchi pahadi par mandir banaatey hain. Fir thandi may band kar neechey utar aatey hain. Tum toh pahadi par baithey ho. Ant may sab pahadi par hee saakshaatkaar hongey. Baba batlaatey hain - mujhey bhi jab saakshaatkaar hua tha toh mai pahadi par tha. Ab bhi pahadi par aakar anaayaas hee baithey hain. Yahaan baithey-baithey tum sab kuch sunengey aur dekhengey. Yahaan baithey saakshaatkaar ho sakta hai ki kaisey aag lagtee hai. Kya-kya hota hai. Radio say, akhbaaron say sab kuch tum sunengey. TV may bhi tum dekh saktey ho. Aagey chalkar aisi-aisi cheezein niklengi jo ghar baithey sab dikhaai padega."

"Whatever you see through these eyes, would not exist in the Golden Age. It would become a jungle. Abu will not be there in the Golden Age. There would not be any need at all. All these temples etc. would be constructed later on in the path of worship. They build temples on such high mountains. Then they close the temple during the winters and come down. You are sitting on a mountain. In the end all the divine visions would be caused on the mountains only. Baba says - Even when I had divine vision, I was on a mountain. Even now we have come and are coincidentally sitting on a mountain. While sitting here, you would hear and see everything. You can have divine visions while sitting here that how the fire gets ignited. What all would happen. You would listen about everything through Radio, through newspapers. You can see on the TV also. In future, such things would emerge, through which everything would be visible while sitting at home." (Revised Sakar Murli dated 14.12.06, pg.3 published by the BKs in Hindi, narrated by Father Shiv through Brahma Baba; translated by a PBK)

The classical Yagya history that the BKs generally present to the world says that Brahma Baba had divine visions in his room and Shiva entered into him and uttered Sanskrit Shloka (for which there is no proof in the Murlis). But the above Murli point, which I too have read for the first time in my Brahmin life says that Brahma Baba had divine visions on a mountain. It would be interesting to read the official English translation of the above Murli quote.

Regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by andrey » 21 Mar 2007

It is the same as with the aging of the body. One can get older by 20 years in one day, or stay at one and the same age until one's 60s. The tree grows sometimes faster, sometimes slower, different branches emerge but it never becomes smaller. Drama has its curves but also has its internal “tick-tick” that leads towards the end that cannot be stopped.

First there are are the seeds of knowledge. A whole three is recorded in them. We see it later in the expansion of the practical actions which come to fruitition in the future. But we can recognize that in this knowledge, this benefit is hidden.

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Post by adikarisoul » 21 Mar 2007

bansy wrote:I read somewhere in Purity magazine that 52 years on, a large delegation of that Japanese sect Ananai-Kyo visited Om Shanti Retreat Centre in Delhi in 2006.
I was in Madhuban in February 2006 and the Delegation of Ananai-Kyo sect spent a few days there too. There was a lady (wearing a nice beautifully coloured Kimono) and a number of men. They were treated as special guests and was highlighted that they had been very important for starting BK service in Japan.

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Yagya History

Post by john » 22 Mar 2007

Is it possible for us to somehow have the correct dates for when important things happened in the Yagya, in particular the early years before 1976.

I think the BK org is changing the dates to rewrite or write out the early period.

For instance, the names of the group from Om Mandali to Prajapita Brahma Kumaris Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya. Is it possible to document all the names and from what times periods they were and compare it to what the BKSWU is now saying, e.g.
  • I did find a site which gave information of events with dates, but I cannot find it anymore, have they taken it down?
    Also what is the correct date Lekhraj Kirpalani was given the name Brahma Baba?
I think BKSWU are now trying to say this all happened within the first few years 1937 - 1939, but is this just a bluff?

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Post by mr green » 22 Mar 2007

It's all made up :-? .

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Post by fluffy bunny » 22 Mar 2007

Mr Green wrote:It's all made up :wink:
And it is all made up again ... re-invented every 10 years or so.
John wrote:I think the BK organisation is changing the dates to rewrite or write out the early period.
You are right ... as we will see soon!
For instance, the names of the group from Om mandali to Prajapita Brahma Kumaris Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya. Is it possible to document all the names and from what times periods they were and compare it to what the BKSWU is now saying.
  • Om Mandali
    Om Niwas
    Rajsuva Asvamedh Avinashi Gyan Yagya
    Prajapita Brahma Kumaris Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya
    Brahma Kumaris World Spiritual University
Did I miss any?
I did find a site which gave information of events with dates, but I cannot find it anymore, have they took it down?
BKWSU India Landmarks ... you can usually see pages in Google cache after they are removed. If you do, save them.
Also what is the correct date Dada Lekhraj was given the name Brahma Baba? I think BKSWU are now trying to say this all happened within the first few years 1937 - 1939, but is this just a bluff?
It does seem that he was named by some trance messenger very early one as Prajapati Brahma ... but without ANY DOUBT WHATSOEVER they thought he was God until at least 1949. I would like to add to you list of question;
  • When was Shiva introduced? ... because it seems to be after 1950.

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Adi Dev&co

Post by alladin » 23 Mar 2007

Hi, sorry but I cannot follow this any more! Weren't we told that from the very start BB was possessed by a ghost who introduced himself as "Shiva hum" and from there on it was always confirmed that God was speaking through him and this is why everybody who listened to the call from God himself had to surrender?

Do you mean that in the Karachi period BB was inviting girls to join the Om Mandali on the basis of his intoxication without any mention of God? Could anybody verify this with some SS who was around at that time or some reliable source?

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Re: Adi Dev&co

Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Mar 2007

Oh, I missed an important detail out John. Through the 1940s, they used to call themselves;

Prajapati Brahma Kumaris. "Divine Daughters of DIVINE Father PRAJAPATI BRAHMA, The Gita Gyan Inventor, The Imparter of Impersihable Wisdom and The Bestower of Divine Insight."

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Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Mar 2007

alladin wrote:Mandali on the basis of his intoxication without any mention of God? Could anybody verify this with some SS who was around at that time or some reliable source?
Yes, Prajapati Brama was called the Divine Father and the BKs were at that time called the "Divine Ones". The "Divine Father and His Divine Ones". There is no mention of Shiva.

These are from Om Radhe who the BWSU pitch as some saintly giant of a woman and number 2 souls in the world. She, and they, were off her head. Here she is talking about World War II (1939 to 1945) being the End of the World/Destruction and here is an example of a letter they were sending out to "military marshalls and commanders" instructing them on scortch earth tactics. So, you can note that down as another embarrassing re-write.
In 1942 Om Radhe wrote:"In such a manner," explains Divine Father PRAJAPATI BRAHMA to his Divine Ones, "I, that selfsame Viceless Deity Kalgidhar SREE Krishna of Vaikunth or BRAHM-PURI, have now incarnated with a different name in the form of an ordinary human being performing various Divine Deeds such as manifesting Jyoti Tattwa (Infinite Divine Light), Adi Sanatan Divine Chaturbhuj Form, BRAHM-PURI or Vaikunth, Kalgidhar Krishna Bal-Lila (Divine Child-Play), Ras-Lila (Divine Dance) and the scenes of ensuing annihilation through Divine Insight and also revealing all the deep secrets of all the Shastras to you. But the Science-Proud European Yadvas, the present rulers of Bharat, and even the Bharatvasi Kaurvas (Congress), Kansas, Jarasandis, etc., amongst whom I have been born, fail to recognise ME. They consider ME as a person of no consequence and adore ME as the abductor of Virgins
The typesetting, although not font, is as per the original.

You see another similar reference here;

Image

Now what makes me sick is that the BKWSU and senior BKs know all about this and yet they have perpetuated a lie to cover it. But you know what ... even if it does come out and even if their re-writing is exposed ... so what!?! It will still be business as usual

They have their palaces, they have their theme parks, they have their political and PR connections; it will all be swept under the carpet as a "little misunderstanding", all part of their "spiritual evolution".

They will blame the PBKs for causing trouble and accuse the ex-BK for falsifying evidence ... as they have aleady done. Brahma, Radhe, the mysticism of it all ... even the senile old Dadis ... are becoming an embarrassment to the new corporate leaders of BK. I am waiting until they change the name yet again to eradicate the Indianness of it, like some market BK Raja Yoga centers, "The Meditation Center".

To me, they have turned their followers (for they have surely taken them from God and Truth) into zombie consumers instead of freeing them, a free workforce to maintain their kingdom; they defend it with a nasty security wing that goes around beating up PBK members and a PR, IT wing attempting to control the media and look after their propaganda.

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Post by alladin » 23 Mar 2007

Hi, whom does the Kumbhakarna story applies to?

What a realistic desceription, yours of "zombies"! Even if it may seem too strong to BKs, you can translate it into less shocking terms such as slaves, or volunteers, and I am sure that there is no BK who hasn't at least once felt being "used". By whom, in name of what, we wore ourselves out with lack of sleep, cutting ourselves off from the world around, relatives and friends, neglecting our careers, concentrating totally on Raja Yoga spiritual path, investing ourselves completely for its expansion (out of the pure desire to benefit all souls) for what? "Godly service". But it would be wise to ask ourselves also in which direction and to sustain which type of organization is all this time, energy and money going.

Yes, probably it will be business as usual, but I still have the faith that God will straighten things up, and that all the labour and good intentions, many meaning good BKs have, will not go to waste. And unless we stop believing in the existence of Karma law, we can relax, keep on planting seeds and wait and see. This is were I am at, right now, grateful to God and Drama for not being totally asleep.

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Post by fluffy bunny » 23 Mar 2007

alladin wrote:Hi, whom does the Kumbhakarna story applies to?
Hi alladin. I know it is difficult but try and keep topics 'on topic' otherwise it become hard to follow, you can always copy and paste quotations marks and take general comments over to other threads.

John, another correction. It should have been;
  • "Om Nivas High School"

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Post by alladin » 24 Mar 2007

Sorry, :oops: I was impressed and carried away by the zombie image. Moreover, I did not know how to quote and paste. Thanks, it is time to learn that!
ex-l wrote: keep topics 'on topic'

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Post by john » 24 Mar 2007

BKWSU India Landmarks ... you can usually see pages in Google cache after they are removed. If you do, save them.
Was this page live or has it just disappeared?

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Post by andrey » 28 Mar 2007

It is not clear who has been the source of the knowledge. Is Prajapita meant for Dada Lekraj or someone else. We know initially Murlis were not spoken. Someone used to dictate and Brahma Baba used to write. Then sometimes Om Radhe used to read before the class.

Baba via Virendra Dev Dixit says that initially, after the visions and Brahma baba being perplexed, he went to the business partner and did not speak to him directly but though a mother in between, possibly his sister. When the mother spoke to the partner, then Shiv came. She was the Brahma and he becames the first Brahmin - Prajapita. He explains and then Shiv came. There was another mother present. That's why it is said that, "when i come i don't come alone, i come with the Trimurti". Later the mother said to Dada Lekraj. This way also, as in the gross form, the moon (of knowlegde/Brahma Baba) is the projeny of the earth (the mother), so it is in the living world of souls.

In the Murli, it is also said that the name Prajapita Brahma Kumaris Ishwariya Vishwa Vidyalaya has to be changed to Adhyatmik Ishwaria Vishva Vidhyalaya, because there will be problems.

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