Why do PBKs just keep on quoting Murlis??

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jim
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Post by jim » 07 Jun 2006

John wrote:Do you mean listen to any other soul or listen to souls who have there own version of Gyan i.e.BK Seniors or exPBKs claiming to be chariots of Shiva?
Who should you remember? As a BK I did not ask for a long time who it was we all sat there in remembrance of. And when I asked - the answers varied, but none included just remember Brahma Baba; so why then did we sit in front of his picture in all the class room / Baba's Room? You may know that sister Jayanti tried to have the picture of Brahma removed from over the ghaddi in the room where the English Murli is read at Global House in London. But Dadi Janki insists that every room in which she teaches must contain a picture of Brahma - so the picture ended up on a side wall. So who should you listen to?

The next bit is from Baba's (Virendra Dev Dixit) clarification of the meaning of the Sakar Murli dated 27 January 1967. Baba says "....come close to me"

In the phrase ‘close to me’ who is ‘me’? Shiv. Is it Shiv, the point of light or is there any practical form of Shiv also? There is a practical form. The final Chariot (mukarrar rath) is the form of Shiv, the practical form. “coming close to that practical form’ means the heaven that is going to be established in the confluence-age, the kingship of getting transformed from a man to Narayan.

Towards the end of that clarification it is said, "... even the children close to me are unable to recognise me."

So what exactly it is that you remember / listen to, depends on what you recognise - and so you get inheritance numberwise. From where will you get your information to enable greater recognition? Any old Brahmin - BK, ex-BK, PBK, ex PBK - or ShivBaba? If you recognise who ShivBaba is and where he is, as only then can the information be obtained from him.
John wrote:Sorry to break the news to you, but all souls become impure ... unfaithful.
Speak for yourself John. Pure as the driven snow I am!! :lol:

Jim

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Post by john » 07 Jun 2006

Jim

Thanks, that's not quite what I meant, but not to worry :)

What do YOU think is the correct form of remembrance and can you explain why that is correct and what exactly was your previous remembrance style as a BK?

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Post by jim » 07 Jun 2006

John wrote:What do YOU think is the correct form of remembrance

If I write what I understand by what Baba says in the Murlis, what will that achieve? My version will be more limited and less inclusive than Baba's explanation. What would be the point in my explaining if I explained just as Baba's does - wouldn't it be better to get it direct? So to be worthwhile for me to explain I would have simplify and emphasis what works for me.

For most who read it, it would be just another opinion. Maybe the odd person may find "my way" speaks to them. Would they now become connected to ShivBaba? - or to me? Have I taken them to the dhobiman, or have I tried to wash them? As I understand it, whoever switches on "the light of understanding" for you, becomes your preceptor.

It seems that as time passes and the tree expands, this must happen; bodily beings will explain to other souls - just as happened en masse in the BKs (and of course to some extent in the PBKs so far). As I understand it, such persons who become preceptors draw souls away from ShivBaba. So those who have this advanced knowledge have to decide the role they wish to play. In the Murli Baba has spoken about - all being revealed in the hall of mirrors. So we may think we may prefer one path or another, but in the end our sanskars will reveal us.

For me the time hasn't come to try and explain such points as you mention - other than to repeat the Murli - "remember Shiva through the body of the permanent Chariot". I am hoping that at some point I will be able to explain straight down the line versions like Baba - according to the audience and not mislead anyone (away from Baba). But then I have the body of a brother, so Mothers and Sisters should be explaining. So we'll see, but not right now.
John wrote:what exactly was your previous remembrance style as a BK?
As far as BK remembrance is concerned, to start with I used to think of a physical point of light in the centre of my forehead and that of others. I couldn't really factor Brahma into the picture. Later I met with Prashant Bhai from Cambridge who taught something he called the Shub method - or as we called it - the Cambridge Diet! That method was temendously powerful and I found it very helpful at the time. It was based on Prashant Bhai's extensive study of the Murli. He certainly attained a very good stage using it and is a great example of an effort making BK.

Jim

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john
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Post by john » 07 Jun 2006

Jim

I do respect your decision for discretion.

Though I don't think by you expressing your opinion hordes of BKs, xBKs, PBKs are going to be trampling onto the forum to follow your example and with that the possibility of being lead along the wrong path.

Jim really it's just your opinion...why would anyone want to follow it?

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Post by jim » 07 Jun 2006

John

Everything starts with a seed.
John wrote:why would anyone want to follow it?
Why would anyone want to hear it? - it's already 2nd hand. Maybe re-cycling is over-rated. 8)

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Post by john » 07 Jun 2006

jim wrote:Why would anyone want to hear it? - it's already 2nd hand. Maybe re-cycling is over-rated.
Well, unless you were a PBK in the late 70's, 80's or 90's even, I am guessing what you have been told is 2nd hand.

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Post by jim » 07 Jun 2006

john wrote:unless you were a PBK in the late 70's, 80's or 90's even, I am guessing
what you have been told is 2nd hand
.
Why do you say that?

The point is to learn from one ShivBaba - be a direct child of the Father. In that way the full inheritance can be received. I can learn direct because as far as I am concerned I know from whom to learn and where he is - the identity of the permanent Chariot of Shiva. The best I can do is to point others to him.

Full inheritance cannot be received from scripture. ShivBaba must be present.

Jim

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Post by john » 07 Jun 2006

jim wrote:Why do you say that?
Because to hear it from baba himself is first hand, well actually unless you can speak Hindi, it will still be 2nd hand because of the translator. Arjun has pointed out that baba no longer gives the course.

In my BK days, it was understood by me that the best service you can do is give or tell of what you got from Shiva and Raja Yoga, because to tell with an honest heart the person will be able feel what you say to be honest and then if they are interested proceed from that point. I still think expressing your own personal experiences are valid, if that's what you want to do, of course not everyone will want to.

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Post by jim » 07 Jun 2006

john wrote:Arjun has pointed out that baba no longer gives the course.
Baba no longer gives the 7 day course (explanation of the pictures) in Kamphill to new PBKs. That is done by the Sisters so to that extent those people receive the information other than from Baba /2nd hand. But the knowledge that is in the course is constantly being spoken by Baba in classes given more or less every day. For those not in front of him, they can watch the video of the class. So I'd say that is first hand.

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Post by john » 07 Jun 2006

jim wrote:But the knowledge that is in the course is constantly being spoken by Baba in classes given more or less every day. For those not in front of him, they can watch the video of the class. So I'd say that is first hand.
But the style of remembrance, where did you learn that and I mean specifically. Jim what I am trying to say is your experiences are just as valid, because really most of what we get is 2nd hand anyway.

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Post by jim » 08 Jun 2006

john wrote:But the style of remembrance, where did you learn that and I mean specifically.
From the clarifications of the Murli given by ShivBaba (via Virendra Dev Dixit). By studying those Murli (the written ones in my cases as I don't understand the spoken Hindi cassettes/vidoes enough) and then churning the meaning of "remember me alone" in the light of all the hints and pointers and in the general context of the all the advanced knowledge given by Baba.
Jim what I am trying to say is your experiences are just as valid, because really most of what we get is 2nd hand anyway.
Most of what most people get - certainly the 500 crore, and most brahmins - will be second hand. Those who only want it 2nd hand are those who don't wish to learn direct from Father - they learn from a bodily being. A soul can explain Gyan to the extent that is required to point souls towards the Father. Beyond that, the "teacher" has by definition set him/herself up as teacher in opposition to Father.

Who teaches spiritual knowledge other than one ShivBaba? - the many religious gurus. But at this time there is the dwindling opportunity to get it first hand for those who want it. The knowledge in the Sakar Murli via Lekhraj Kirpalani was un-chruned/undigested and therefore inaccessible and did little good to most. The knowledge - called advanced knowledge has been churned/ pre-digested by Shankar and is therefore palatable to more. Those who have studied it, have to churn it further to get more butter/understanding. The churning process is vital - so if things are explained too much, given on a plate, the benefit is less due to omission of the churning by the receiver plus the explanation will be limited by the "givers" intellect: an intellect not so powerful as that of ShivBaba.

So we don't have to get knowledge second hand and doing so is limiting. If souls don't want to study first hand - then inevitably, if they are interested, they are going to get it related by others who have done the study - and more importantly, the remembrance - numberwise. [To do good service - Baba says "make your intellect pure like Mama and Baba". How do you make you intellect pure? - by remembrance of ShivBaba].

So I don't think my experience - by which I mean my churned understanding of Gyan - is very helpful to others. Study - listen / read the clarified Murlis and think about it.

Jim

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john
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Post by john » 08 Jun 2006

Jim

Thanks for your explaination, but I just don't think you understand what I am saying and on a forum it gets long winded to get to subtleties so I'll leave it there. Would it be fair for me to say that you're not really on this forum to discuss, but to do service?
But at this time there is the dwindling opportunity to get it first hand for those who want it.
Ever since I first joined the BKs in 1984 there has been dwindling opportunities and a few years left 8)

Also really the BKs say listen to us and no one else, you as a PBK are taking this to the extreme, which may be the right thing to do, but outsiders have noted what a good brainwashing technique this is :wink: Personally, I don't think your take on this is correct, actually I think it's only your churning/understanding of the idea and you're trying to put it across as Shrimat. Not necessarily completely wrong, but maybe a distortion.

Two things which crop up a lot in Sakar Murlis is to teach, Shiva says do service and teach. There are quotes like "If you cannot explain, then it is understood that you don't really understand Gyan". Jim do you read the Sakar Murlis at all?

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Post by john » 08 Jun 2006

A thought has just occured to me.

Could Shiva speaking about Destruction being close refer to the 1976 destruction date? The Sakar Murlis available are I think mainly from the 1960's and therefore more emphasis put on Destruction than earlier Murlis(which have gone missing)

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Post by arjun » 08 Jun 2006

Dear John Bhai, Om Shanti. Could you please be more clearer as to what you wish to ask about the 1976 destruction and the Sakar Murli references?
With regards,
OGS,
Arjun

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Post by john » 08 Jun 2006

Arjun wrote:Dear John Bhai, Om Shanti. Could you please be more clearer as to what you wish to ask about the 1976 destruction and the Sakar Murli references?
I'll try :D. I believe the many references to Destruction came in the latter Murlis as did the 10 year period for Destruction in 1976. As we now know this referred to the subtle Destruction of BK world. So I am now wondering if the references about destruction coming soon were meant for the 1976 subtle Destruction date. As really the broad drama destruction did not come soon.

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